Is God competent or incompetent?

[Siegfried von Walheim]

On 4/9/2018 at 9:19 AM, Gnostic Bishop said:

A good view.

I asked Elizbaeth a question above on Christianity reversing the original meaning of the story. Care to speculate on why they did that?

Regards

DL 

 

I am no theologian so I am not sure what you mean. Do you mean why do Christians refer to it as "Original Sin"? Well "sin" means to "miss the mark" or make a moral crime; it is "missing the mark" to use free will in a way that is against God's wishes and the circumstances involved were what theoretically led to mankind having such as a thing as temptation (for more beyond necessity) and that temptation can be a cause for evil.

Practically speaking; I think the purpose of the concept of Original Sin and the failings of Adam and Eve are meant to be a sort of "memento mori: remember you are mortal" and thus be an eternal warning that all people are capable of being corrupted (relative to being pure, upright, moral, sensible, and compassionate). 

The reminder that there are no one that is 100% perfect beyond any flaws, weaknesses, and temptations is a good one because without idolatry becomes a real threat (and from a secular standpoint the problem of idolatry is to worship individuals as if they were beyond condemnation and thus have those individuals be used as propaganda or, similarly, for those individuals to use themselves as propaganda for why they are right. I think the differences between Occidental Despotism and Oriental Despotism demonstrate this concept we Whities have of "memento mori (remember you are mortal)" versus what the Asians have of a divine superman beyond reproach (like the Mandate of Heaven in China for example, or the Divinity of the Japanese Emperor as another). 

While Western sensibilities regarding man as mortal rather than divine precede the rise in Christianity, I think Christianity has done much for the West in emphasizing the fallibility and mortality of mankind. And I think the practical result in the very long run is scientific method, respect for the law, and (at least the desire) to keep governments within reproach.

 

 

[Jsbrads]

The tree of knowledge good and evil does not grant you new information. It grants subjectivity. Prior to the tree, things could be correct or incorrect, but don’t hold value judgements.

And as to fathers and mothers, they close their eyes to the future and create bastards out of wedlock thru stupidity and blindness, not choosing evil, but acting without forethought, their action contained choice and knowledge without intent.

I will visit upon the third and fourth generation...

Facts don’t care about your feelings.

[Foolmetwice.]

Sin is simply temptation that is fallen into and there are two variables that are very important in the nature of the sin and what effects should be considered in the correction of the Soul engaged in the sin, first, are the conditions of the sin a situation where the sin was easy to choose by the Soul or were the conditions a manufactured situation brought about to actually make it so easy with no alternative path,for example, with pornography, were there socially another route easily taken to avoid replacing the desirable outcome to life with the possibility to meet someone and they would of course be the best path, or were the desirable  partners image in the general veiw of relationships hidden by some work of subterfuge?, I know when growing up, I was told that the female essence was not what I had thought seeing how well my Mother and Father enjoyed their lives and even though it was hard because we had very little, my Dad worked on the building of the home we lived in and they were very great houses for families, so a happy time under the right conditions were what I believed was correct, then at some point in the 70's, there began another way, everyone started to have been related to an idea of do what you want without any consequences, try this, pornography, try this, alcohol to forget that it was not as good as it had been, all the bad ideas that had taken so many good people down were presented as available to ease the pain of separation from that which was so much more desirable, a female became optional in the relations of sexual partnership , and an image replaced the true nature of the female essence, the place I lived worshipped an idol, a representation of a woman, this was not real and destabilised the Soul as it was the total corruption, to remove the female from the equation can only be considered the work of the devil or in other terms, a political structure that had been hijacked by people with a long term plan and had no thought about the destruction of that which is Divine, the union in happiness with love between a man and a woman, corruption of the most evil kind, to destroy that which the Creator had gifted us on the earth. The other choice, if wanted by the person, they think, yes, I prefer this image, I dont seek union, I seek only the image as that is what I know as what a woman is, this path can be considered in my opinion as the evil having found a willing partner, birds of a feather flock together if you like. So, sin, I do not believe a Soul can be born to the world attached to anything negative, no sin at birth, the planet that Soul enters has a duty to keep harm or any chances of the corruption of this Soul far away to allow the natural path into adulthood without any dangers that we all know exist. These dangers, greed, jealously, rage, to seek another to pay our bill, denial of our own feeling that only the world can repair but this false world demands we implode and suffer away from the knowledge and wisdom and compassion of those who have come before us and know these things and understand the hell inside they are, we are told to declare these to psychiatrists, what is a psychiatrist?, a Soul doctor?, a medic when our Souls are injured because of temptation?, well there are some like that, but many are of the political colours that collect things we scream while wounded in war , and later use our words of desperation against us, this is the ultimate corruption, that of  a persons trust, to have the trust damaged or even destroyed by betrayal is maybe the easiest path to becoming so confused in a life that a person becomes all of the things that trust gives, suspicious, super sensitive, avoiding contact because of the wolf  that appears as the sheep based on very bad experience. Trust, once removed is the path to sin, to trust in the beautiful world we have found ourselves in and all it promises, stolen right from us and in private without any protection is  sometimes catastrophic in its results, and many have fallen because of this, some in spectacular ways, the worst part of this is when these angels falling take others with them, to corrupt another because of bitterness, to grab a bystander while they jump over the edge, to destroy another simply because they think its a good idea, now that is super corruption of the Soul, the ultimate sin, to deny another their right to the experience of life and take it from them , in relation to a religious idea, God says God will judge, and who can say that is a bad thing given the state of the law on earth?, but the corrupt and evil mind desires anothers demise to accompany their own, and then they think they become as God, and therefore judge a good Soul unconnected to their corruption in any way, and decide they must pay in part for their internal hell, they sacrifice someone, to a god, that god is themselves, therefore the biblical idea that satan or the devil was thrown out because they refused to bow to the most High and living God, that is the state of mind that becomes from a path of corruption allowed by a type of entrapment the Soul experience in life, bad places have bad things for free, and anything free has no value but costs so much later in terms of the price paid by the Soul of the corrupted and those they seek to punish for their own torment. The world need I think, a place, to tell the congregation of those also on the path, to declare without the fear of the hidden slander, the devil has a hold on me, please, I need help now, I have begun to become corrupted, and those who hear will take them away from the source of their inner turmoil, and if removed from the flames that burn into the place of where the flame warms us, is the way back to themselves.Terrible ideas have corrupted many naive and good people and they have gotten lost simply because for them, no matter how it is claimed, there was no place to go at the point they  realised there was an influence on them that they could see was destroying them, and a cry for help ignored for a Soul in torment, is a terrible feeling, we may lose our trust in the entire world who claims it cares but right then?, as they scream out for a hand?, there is none. I believe only a strong adherence to the ideas that made great people of the past great, and people of today great, the path they took, and the framework they kept within, this must be restored or else the devil will always have empty pockets to dance in, have all the best music, have the ways to move someone to the front of a queue, to pay a little to a starving person in order to take it all later, when the trust is gone. So it may be easy to point to specific things, porn, greed, gambling, relationship trouble, anger, anything, but there is not a single problem that a good community cannot identify and resolve for the good of the sufferer and those who will avoid this by the strength and community , and the love involved by the use of real compassion, there is nothing evil can do to break any of these, the world was simply fragmented, by political tpes, they cannot do this unless they get you alone, at night and lonely and seeking that essence, in the day and lonely and without any love but much money, alone is not what God promised us, to be in contact is, to relate and enjoty all that is, and there is so much , sorry to say so much. but this is my opinion and I just saw this thread so forgive me if I didnt read all of the post I just commented on sin and I saw that was what was being discussed.

[Gnostic Bishop]

On ‎11‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 7:13 PM, Siegfried von Walheim said:

 am no theologian so I am not sure what you mean.

Good post.

What I meant was that The Jews see Eden as our elevation, but when Christianity usurped their God, they reversed that elevation to a fall.

  ‘Instead of the Fall of man (in the sense of humanity as a whole), Judaism preaches the Rise of man: and instead of Original Sin, it stresses Original Virtue, the beneficent hereditary influence of righteous ancestors upon their descendants’.

http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2013/10/20/comparative-theodicy/

Regards

DL