WUT to do, when there's no critical thinking.

[barn]

Hi thinkers and alike,

While listening to [FDR Podcast - 3976 - 2nd caller - from minute 57]

...(I heard myself say)...
Did she just say what I had also been thinking about, almost 'down to the last tee'...?

[...]
"up is down".."east is west".."the world fell into a weird chaotic wormhole"..." everything is going insane".. "what's next"..." What dreams do you have?".."Do you want to travel? "..." What's your dream job? "..

".. and they have nothing to answer with!"..." They never thought about it!.. "
[...]

I'm posting this here, not under education for its relevancy to rather self-knowledge. Though, I'm mainly experiencing it within  the boundaries of the former realm as a job, but it also is the same outside of work.

Please help me find answers to the following question:

1. How to make the most impact if there is very little time alloted and the setup is coercion induced (=learning sth that which the students wouldn't have chosen in the first place if they could have)

a. critical thinking is required, however they were ONLY taught/had exposure to ONLY memorising, repetition based group think, regurgitation.

b. overburdened from the get-go, but worse they don't even have the time for proper free-time because of other obligations... tiredness physically, mentally.

c. all and every extrascolar activities are either based around no-negotiation & structured(already set up) sports, family time (kids are mainly bored because the parents are who are having the fun)

d. hardly any kids hang out on the streets playing, there are no 'clubs, groups, gatherings' self organising... except for religious stuff (again, highly structured... my only qualm is lacking critical thinking, plus it's fake-religiosity for its 'fan-factory' like effect so that people can pretend virtues)

d. zero tolerance to criticism (the person's either upset or aggressive in return) and you commonly see intense self censoring, fear of speaking their mind at all (takes ages to dig down to ANY genuine opinion/preference because of loathing probable negative repercussions, pretentious society, close relatives aren't encouraging individuality)

e. parents don't care but claim to want to raise well-rounded adults in the process, meanwhile facilitating socialists to prosper in every aspects of society.

 

(I'm pro-active, dedicated, woke and won't give up just doubting the worth in this setup, definitely could improve my approach to it... etc)

Barnsley

Edited January 26, 2018 by barn
tidied

[RichardY]

They have to be critical of the teacher themselves. I remember a story I was told once by my grandfather, being told by the class teacher. "It may look like the continents, may have fitted together at one point in the past, but that simply is not the case".

Concept mapping and Ayn Rand's theory of epistemeology can help, a lot. Helps order their thinking, spot abnormalities.

Alternatively allowing the inductive reasoning to fluorish, maybe of massive benefit, but is generally practically impossible in society and a schooling environment.

 

[barn]

Thanks... (?) , I'd have done that long ago if points a, b, c, d2, e, (? not sure you saw them) weren't an obstacle.

My heart breaks every time because otherwise they are all good kids, it's just that (seemingly) nothing excites them.

(When asked what do they like and why, eventually we have to move on because of the boring silence and emptiness that follows...)

Edited February 1, 2018 by barn
"seemingly"

[RichardY]

If overt effective action is difficult/nigh on impossible. The only other option would be to attempt to influence them unconsciously. I remember Stefan commenting on "The Angry Birds movie" in Finland, and how it related to immigration and War.

To that affect, maybe try Aesop fables or look for things along a similar line, I have no idea how effective they might be.

Reading Stefan write in his book "The Art of the Argument" that "The Argument", "It is not a great chance, but it is our only one." Pg 159, not exactly encouraging.

[barn]

The problem is in effort.

Requires no effort = ok.

Any effort = no workee.

(I did try Aesop's fables back then, even designed a custom 'choose your own adventure game', only to find out they preferred to know the outcomes first or if not they'd rather act passive and give up... didn't work. I was perplexed for weeks afterwards. Interestingly, it only happens at a certain age range. Younger or older ones don't have such a disconnect from their self.)

[RichardY]

31 minutes ago, barn said:

The problem is in effort.

Requires no effort = ok.

Any effort = no workee.

If you're trying to increase effort, then the trick would be to raise conscientiousness, not necessarily in accordance with critical thinking.

Personally can't think of any practical and legal ways to do so, unwillingly. I think caning or shaming may have the effect of increasing conscientiousness, it may also have the effect of increasing neuroticism. Probably would reduce openess to experience (I.Q), if  conscientiousness was raised, in that particular manner.

Bare in mind that a large component is genetic. The Germans very high in conscientiousness, also have heard them described as "robots" by multiple individuals.

35 minutes ago, barn said:

(I did try Aesop's fables back then, even designed a custom 'choose your own adventure game', only to find out they preferred to know the outcomes first or if not they'd rather act passive and give up... didn't work. I was perplexed for weeks afterwards. Interestingly, it only happens at a certain age range. Younger or older ones don't have such a disconnect from their self.)

 The point is to let them deduce the meaning themselves as is. "Paint me as I am Warts and all". Not to try and conscientiously dredge up meaning, that would be more applicable with an aristotelian/Randian teleological(becoming) approach. Aesop was a slave, the idea of applying children's stories, to adults in a serious(conscientious) way would have likely got him killed. 

[barn]

3 minutes ago, RichardY said:

If you're trying to increase effort, then the trick would be to raise conscientiousness, not necessarily in accordance with critical thinking.

Personally can't think of any practical and legal ways to do so, unwillingly. I think caning or shaming may have the effect of increasing conscientiousness, it may also have the effect of increasing neuroticism. Probably would reduce openess to experience (I.Q), if  conscientiousness was raised, in that particular manner.

Bare in mind that a large component is genetic. The Germans very high in conscientiousness, also have heard them described as "robots" by multiple individuals.

 The point is to let them deduce the meaning themselves as is. "Paint me as I am Warts and all". Not to try and conscientiously dredge up meaning, that would be more applicable with an aristotelian/Randian teleological(becoming) approach. Aesop was a slave, the idea of applying children's stories, to adults in a serious(conscientious) way would have likely got him killed. 

Thanks for the contributions.

[RichardY]

Another way to raise conscientiousness. Would be to try and do the following.

1) Institute, a more expensive and less casual school unifrom.

2) Use eye contact and address pupils directly rather than follow a collective lesson plan.

3) Introduce the use of technology (laptops), for things like a paper class register. Might have already been done long a go in most schools now. 

4) Combine number 2 with bribery and questions. 

[barn]

4 minutes ago, RichardY said:

Another way to raise conscientiousness. Would be to try and do the following.

1) Institute, a more expensive and less casual school unifrom.

2) Use eye contact and address pupils directly rather than follow a collective lesson plan.

3) Introduce the use of technology (laptops), for things like a paper class register. Might have already been done long a go in most schools now. 

4) Combine number 2 with bribery and questions. 

See, dear @RichardY(not condescending but trying to sound warm, even after having had a few unsuccessful past trials with convos, this might be my last try)

While I'm noticing you're coming up with vaguely related and constructivity leaning bursts, I usually wonder how have you verified (if at all) that what you are putting forward hadn't been implemented (bribery 4th point, btw isn't part of my vocabulary). It almost seems as if there's a lack of desire from your side to try to understand what is really going on.

Let me say that its not required (naturally) and feel free to stay distant from asking clarifiers... it's just again I'm starting to feel that I am loosing interest in what you have to say, rapidly. (honestly telling you my experience)

What do you think about that?

[RichardY]

@barn

I fundamentally don't know anyone on the forum, generally I don't care. What I care about is to drain as much knowledge as I can from it, to that end I try to be as honest as possible. "The trader principle"

Bribery generally does ellicit disgust from me, something to do with morality. Combined with dogma can raise conscientiousness and effort, if not providing any genuine meaning.

The 4 examples I gave was thinking back to my time at secondary school and a teacher who was promoted to "temporary"(later permanent) headmaster after being there only a few months. The previous one had run off with another woman.

Mostly I'm more interested in the abstract than the empirical. Perhaps a weakness that I plan to resolve, but also concurrent with personality profiles that I have read.

[barn]

13 minutes ago, RichardY said:

I fundamentally don't know anyone on the forum, generally I don't care.

Ouuukey...