Bootstraps Bullshit

[Revolutionary Thinking]

A lot of Libertarians think that no matter who your are after a certain age that it depends on how hard you work that'll determine your success in life. So can anyone come up with a reasonable rebuttal to this article and the things that are said on here? https://unemployeduscgrad.wordpress.com/2012/01/20/why-the-bootstrap-theory-is-bullshit/

[shirgall]

All of us are standing on the shoulders of those that came before us, who didn't know as much or communicate nearly as well as we can do today.

The standard of living of the poor in the United States is better than most of even the richest Americans only a few decades ago. The average level of inflation-adjusted income is greater in even the poorest parts of the world, and the average has increased dramatically in only a few decades.

Despite socialist policies that favor fearful compliance over consent, the freer thinkers and workers of the world have been the tide that floated billions of boats where only millions lived in squalor a couple centuries ago.

[Ethan Ferris]

This is entirely anecdotal. One man's failure does not prove that success is impossible.

For an anecdotal response, I could say the opposite about each of these topics from my own experience. I didn't grow up in the level of poverty that he describes, but I didn't start my career with much. I pretty much had a place to stay, and that's it. I didn't even have a degree, though I would say that's an advantage for me. I got a shitty job, saved up, bought a used car, got some decent clothes, leveraged my relationships to get some opportunities, and worked as many hours as I could take until I had a decent wage. It isn't just about working hard, it's about working smart too.

As for this guys anecdotes, it doesn't seem like he's working very smart. He has other articles talking about playing the lottery. He lays out his monthly expenses in another, and some of them are wildly large. He admits that he has to pay a lot for car insurance because he has a bad record. He spends $1,000 a month on food and another $1,500 on 'shopping'. Either he ain't as poor as he says, or he's seriously overspending.

Yeah, without a job you don't have much money, and without money, you can't do a lot. So get creative and figure something out. Be scrappy. Get a used car, or carpool, or ride a bike to work. Rent a suit for the day of the interview. Cut coupons. Build relationships and ask for help. Educate yourself with the infinite free information on the internet. Find a way. There isn't any other way.

[Revolutionary Thinking]

What do you mean by leveraging your relationships to get money? Also I find it kind of stupid that after so many years in our stupid education system that the only thing left after graduation from either high school and college is a shitty job. With all the years and the resources the education system has why should this be the case? Seems like some people are dumb not to be paying attention to that. 

[Ethan Ferris]

11 hours ago, Revolutionary Thinking said:

What do you mean by leveraging your relationships to get money?

 

You can get loans from friends or family, as well as other resources. Also, having a successful friend or family member advocating for you can go a long way.

11 hours ago, Revolutionary Thinking said:

Also I find it kind of stupid that after so many years in our stupid education system that the only thing left after graduation from either high school and college is a shitty job.

1

I completely agree. Education is a broken mess of propaganda bullshit, and its made worse by families insisting that their children take on huge debt to go. It's insane and I think almost nobody should go.

Allow me to reframe what I meant by a shitty job. My shitty job was as a short-order cook at a local cafe - basically, I put lettuce on bread. It sucked. The shifts were long, I was working with terrible people, etc. But it also had benefits. Usually, when you are working a crappy job, the crappy people stuck in that job suck, which gives you more room to excel. I took every shift I could get and applied myself to get good and got two raises in 5 months. I also found joy in the menial, mindless nature of the tasks, because I could just stand there and think while making orders. It became almost meditative. And there was a certain gratification to coming home after a hard day's work and watching the number in my bank account rise.

Yeah, it sucks that you can't just start at your dream job right away, but it sucking doesn't do anything to change reality. Bootstrapping isn't just a theory - it's the only way. You either do it or you don't.

Are you encountering some of the same struggles the writer of that article was?

[Revolutionary Thinking]

@Ethan Ferris Not as bad as a situation as his. The problem is that I live in an overpopulated dump (Los Angeles) I really want to work and hardly anyone is hiring. I also have a degree and vocational experience. I talk about it in detail here. 

 

[RichardY]

The article is by a girl (unless a cross-dresser).

Reading a core thinker related to libertarianism, Von Mises, talks about workers being used up by 30 during the industrial revolution(Human Action) , not necessarily endorsing hardwork. Rather he gives an example about Romania and investment in the country's oil industry greatly raising living standards, for a while..... 

I think you have to talk to people on an individual level, not on a public forum.

You live in the USA so it's not like you have highly limited choice geographically & culturally where to live. Escape from LA?

[barn]

4 hours ago, Ethan Ferris said:

My shitty job was as a short-order cook at a local cafe - basically, I put lettuce on bread. It sucked. The shifts were long, I was working with terrible people, etc. But it also had benefits. Usually, when you are working a crappy job, the crappy people stuck in that job suck, which gives you more room to excel. I took every shift I could get and applied myself to get good and got two raises in 5 months. I also found joy in the menial, mindless nature of the tasks, because I could just stand there and think while making orders. It became almost meditative. And there was a certain gratification to coming home after a hard day's work and watching the number in my bank account rise.

Yeah, it sucks that you can't just start at your dream job right away, but it sucking doesn't do anything to change reality. Bootstrapping isn't just a theory - it's the only way. You either do it or you don't.

I'd like to second that, as it was generally the same experience for me also at an earlier stage of my life.

Besides, it didn't just facilitated simplifying my tree of priorities anno but also taught me valuable (at times challenging) lessons about having goals, deferring immediate gratification...

[Actually, I should do it more again, now that I think of it.]

p. s. (Thanks for the reminder!)

[Ethan Ferris]

4 hours ago, Revolutionary Thinking said:

@Ethan Ferris Not as bad as a situation as his. The problem is that I live in an overpopulated dump (Los Angeles) I really want to work and hardly anyone is hiring. I also have a degree and vocational experience.

 

 

I'm sorry to hear that. Glad to hear that you are still chasing opportunities though! If you're interested in talking about your situation specifically, I'd be happy to chat.

To put a cap on my answer to your original question (after thinking about it more):

It is tragic that so many people have been put in terrible positions - growing up in broken families, propagandized, and held down by an oppressive state. I have the utmost sympathy for them, in large part because I've experienced all of it.

Unfortunately, all the sympathy in the world doesn't lift them out of jobless poverty. Actions do - specifically their actions. They may not bear responsibility for their starting point, but they are responsible for where they go from there. Either they can make it or they can't. If they can, I'm all for helping, and if they can't, my help, or any other help, won't do anything to change that.

We may have built a civilized society, but we are still animals living in nature, and if you can't make it, you don't. Propping up those among us who can't sustain themselves will only drag everyone else down.

When I realized this, it pissed me off. It still pisses me off. That's why I picked myself up by the bootstraps and made shit happen. I didn't want to be left behind - I don't want anyone to be left behind. That's why I spend time mentoring entrepreneurs in my community and doing everything I can to ensure the success of others (without hindering my own). But I will never help someone to my own detriment, and I don't think anyone should. Knowing that has also forced me to hedge my bets and live practically. When I realized that nobody is going to descend from the sky to save me, nor should they, I started taking things very seriously.

Fortunately, its easier than ever to bootstrap. Resources are getting cheaper every day, and the most important resource, knowledge, is available in absurd abundance for free.

I can't say this as a universal, but I can share my experience. I have never met someone with a genuine desire to succeed and improve that couldn't do it. Like with many things in life, the first thing you need to succeed is the genuine desire and the will to make it happen. Once you have that - deeply and honestly - it's just a matter of time.

It isn't so much that how hard you work determines your success. It's more that if you work hard, you might get there. But if you don't, you definitely won't. When I advocate for harder work to those that I'm mentoring/advising, I explain that they have a simple choice: either try something new or keep failing. Working hard isn't just putting your nose to the grindstone, it's making the hard decisions like when to give up on an idea, or make serious changes to accommodate to the market. I'd say its more about never giving up instead of hard work, but the two go hand in hand.