Mole Posted February 14, 2018 Posted February 14, 2018 I am a psychology major undergraduate and have a couple days to apply for a job/internship at the Centre for Cognitive Work and Safety Analysis which is a part of the Department of Defence Science and Technology, Australia. Australia is an ally of the United States of America and fought beside them in all the major wars. Australia is a Commonwealth so if Britain declares war, Australia must contribute to the war effort. Australia is actively involved in the war in Afghanistan and the war against ISIS. Australia is also part of the Korean war. My duty might involve improving the displays of fighter aircraft which would directly effect bombing missions in the middle east. Other duties I could be involved in is research, transcribing, conducting interviews and analysis. This internship would last for 4 months maximum. There are many benefits to getting this internship. There are not really any other jobs in the market for students that would challenge my research and cognitive skills. I'm thinking of becoming a neuropsychologist so it's really important, especially when I go for PhD (In Australia it is required). Also, the pay is good and I have no shame for taking taxpayer money while I am young. Also, the centre is literally in the same suburb that I live in, and halfway between my house and my university. Also, it could teach me something about the psychology of those in the military which is very unique knowledge for a libertarian to have. If it were not for the initiation of force, there wouldn't be many better jobs that I could be doing at the moment. While what I'm doing might be directly working for the military, but morally speaking, it's not necessarily different to other work I could be doing because my taxes would go towards the military anyway. Violation of the NAP is wrong, but what I could be doing could help me prevent violations of the NAP more than actually violating the NAP. Also, if I were at any time uncomfortable, I could quit. Still, it bothers me that what I would be doing would be directly contributing to the murder of innocent people. How could I find a balance in this scenario? (did you forget it's valentines day?)
J.L.W Posted February 14, 2018 Posted February 14, 2018 I don't consider myself a moral arbiter but it strikes me in this world we live in there are potential unintended consequences for every decision we make. So if you take a job that is lower paying are you more of a burden to others etc.? Or if you don't take a job you really want and are less happy, is that a burden to others?
GoodJBoy Posted February 14, 2018 Posted February 14, 2018 Let's look at this in three different categories... 1. Mechanical Engineer dedicates his entire career to creating new weapons for the military used to kill people. 2. A billionaire businessman civilian that has nothing to do with the military and is paying hundreds of millions of dollars a year to the government in the form of income tax, a large portion of which is used to buy weapons for war. 3. Psychologist this is going to get a 4 month internship conducting research, transcribing, conducting interviews and analysis for the military. My vote is that taking this internship is just fine. It's not like you are going to be enabling some sociopathic leader to kill more people by taking this job. Down the line, this job just might give you some valuable perspective on the military that is going to keep your children steering clear of ever joining the military.
barn Posted February 14, 2018 Posted February 14, 2018 People are what they do repeatedly. You can choose what to do repeatedly. Choosing what you wish to do makes you more the person you want to become. It seems you already have all the answers to what you've been choosing to do. But do you actually understand why that has been?
grithin Posted February 15, 2018 Posted February 15, 2018 Depends on how many layers of separation that you need to consider helping a murderer moral. You could consider paying tax as contributory to the dollar value which enables the military through funding. And, then, apart from the layers of separation consideration, there's the greater good consideration. Perhaps you should consider that, with all the hot air the liberty movements produces, it was the military that saved us from a dark era signaled by Hilary.
Tyler H Posted February 16, 2018 Posted February 16, 2018 There are plenty of justifications to take the job, the state doesn’t leave us much choice in the world. This is a personal decision that I think, for whatever that’s worth, you should make based upon what you expect your conscience will let you live with. It sounds like you would not feel comfortable if something you did increased the psychological ease with which someone else could murder or the death count they would generate. We know there are quite a bit of civilian casualties. I think from what you’ve said if you had any other option you would prefer that; have you exhausted every other possibility?
RichardY Posted February 16, 2018 Posted February 16, 2018 @Mole Ah cool. What sort of topics, people and theories did you study in psychology? "Still, it bothers me that what I would be doing would be directly contributing to the murder of innocent people. How could I find a balance in this scenario?" HAAHAAHAHA!!! Australia awesome country right? I'd give my left(or right) nutt for citizenship, work hard and conscientiously not so much. Relatively speaking you're in the richest Anglo-Sphere nation, there must be no end of opportunities to make some major coin (relatively speaking.......), then again money is only as good as what you do with it.
HenryJubeda Posted March 9, 2018 Posted March 9, 2018 On 2/14/2018 at 2:33 AM, Mole said: I am a psychology major undergraduate and have a couple days to apply for a job/internship at the Centre for Cognitive Work and Safety Analysis which is a part of the Department of Defence Science and Technology, Australia. Australia is an ally of the United States of America and fought beside them in all the major wars. Australia is a Commonwealth so if Britain declares war, Australia must contribute to the war effort. Australia is actively involved in the war in Afghanistan and the war against ISIS. Australia is also part of the Korean war. My duty might involve improving the displays of fighter aircraft which would directly effect bombing missions in the middle east. Other duties I could be involved in is research, transcribing, conducting interviews and analysis. This internship would last for 4 months maximum. There are many benefits to getting this internship. There are not really any other jobs in the market for students that would challenge my research and cognitive skills. I'm thinking of becoming a neuropsychologist so it's really important, especially when I go for PhD (In Australia it is required). Also, the pay is good and I have no shame for taking taxpayer money while I am young. Also, the centre is literally in the same suburb that I live in, and halfway between my house and my university. Also, it could teach me something about the psychology of those in the military which is very unique knowledge for a libertarian to have. If it were not for the initiation of force, there wouldn't be many better jobs that I could be doing at the moment. While what I'm doing might be directly working for the military, but morally speaking, it's not necessarily different to other work I could be doing because my taxes would go towards the military anyway. Violation of the NAP is wrong, but what I could be doing could help me prevent violations of the NAP more than actually violating the NAP. Also, if I were at any time uncomfortable, I could quit. Still, it bothers me that what I would be doing would be directly contributing to the murder of innocent people. How could I find a balance in this scenario? (did you forget it's valentines day?) You're paid through the use of force, so yes, that part is immoral. However, you'd be an idiot not to use these facilities as refusing them would severely cripple your ability to get anything done, and like you said, eventually you'll pay for all this in taxation thrice over. Just keep in mind that you are working for a coercive agency, get your papers, and then move into the free market to see if you can actually provide value for the world. If there's any way you can get to becoming a neuropsychologist without the use of government force, I'd take that path. In fact, I'm mostly self-taught and very good at my job. The question I think you need to ask is "Do I really need to put myself into this situation?" rather than whether you can live with yourself. The danger of having a government job is having no customers, and therefore no challenges. It makes people lazy and complacent. Very few people can work for a government and remain sane.
Mole Posted June 9, 2018 Author Posted June 9, 2018 On 2/15/2018 at 9:08 AM, barn said: But do you actually understand why that has been? I think what you are saying is that as long as my intent is clear, then I will become what I think I will become?
barn Posted June 9, 2018 Posted June 9, 2018 1 hour ago, Mole said: I think what you are saying is that as long as my intent is clear, then I will become what I think I will become? No, not at all. Intent is a few levels above various personal incentives. I was curious if you were in 'possession' of those, could see those. (note: Another comment of mine you could have missed, supplementary, in your 'dedicate->philosophy')
smarterthanone Posted June 10, 2018 Posted June 10, 2018 On 2/14/2018 at 4:23 PM, GoodJBoy said: Let's look at this in three different categories... 1. Mechanical Engineer dedicates his entire career to creating new weapons for the military used to kill people. If he creates weapons for a private company which the military buys, I consider this moral. In ancap society, it is not wrong to design weapons. The demand for things such as tanks and air craft carriers would be less but a weapon in and of itself is not morally wrong. It isn't really his moral obligation who buys it and what they do with it. Just like Beretta is not responsible for some idiot shooting up a gas station with one of their guns. On 2/14/2018 at 4:23 PM, GoodJBoy said: 2. A billionaire businessman civilian that has nothing to do with the military and is paying hundreds of millions of dollars a year to the government in the form of income tax, a large portion of which is used to buy weapons for war. Taxation is theft, the civilian does not want to pay the taxes. If you break into my house and steal $10,000 worth of stuff and use it to buy some guns and hire 3 other guys and rob a bank, its not my moral responsibility. On 2/14/2018 at 4:23 PM, GoodJBoy said: 3. Psychologist this is going to get a 4 month internship conducting research, transcribing, conducting interviews and analysis for the military. You are about as morally responsible as if the Mafia hired you to scope in their guns. Or if you were a Nazi in charge of running supplies to the Nazi troops. Just because its your military I think you are still giving it some warm fuzzy feelings. Like its just the military. That being said, I think you should do it. If I was you I would do it. I think its immoral but most people make lots of immoral decisions.
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