Things're getting bad with girls.

[J.L.W]

A girl at my workplace lead me on for ages (I have emails to this account, I keep checking I am OK saying things like 'is this inappropriate' and she says things like 'not at all') and then, when I gave her a valentines card and flowers, complained I was harassing her.

A second one made a similar complaint, to management, over a facebook comment. Perhaps they are trying to force me out I don't know.

I deleted the girls I work with off facebook after this, and although there are some there who seem a bit nicer, I can talk with a little, and do not like that first clique, I am definitely wary, will not attend any social events with the group (not a problem these rarely happen, although they are trying to) and am starting to see the wisdom in the approach of not speaking to work girls over anything non work related.

Anyone else have anything to say on this?

 

 

[AllanN]

On 3/8/2018 at 2:27 PM, J.L.W said:

A girl at my workplace lead me on for ages (I have emails to this account, I keep checking I am OK saying things like 'is this inappropriate' and she says things like 'not at all') and then, when I gave her a valentines card and flowers, complained I was harassing her.

A second one made a similar complaint, to management, over a facebook comment. Perhaps they are trying to force me out I don't know.

I deleted the girls I work with off facebook after this, and although there are some there who seem a bit nicer, I can talk with a little, and do not like that first clique, I am definitely wary, will not attend any social events with the group (not a problem these rarely happen, although they are trying to) and am starting to see the wisdom in the approach of not speaking to work girls over anything non work related.

Anyone else have anything to say on this?

 

 

Going on the information you've given, you've already had two (in my opinion: unfair) warnings.  Woman are networks of minds, and sure there are good ones among them.  But if you have trouble with the others it's doubtful the good ones will ever defend you - they'll keep a low profile; it's none of their business.  Even if they know every detail of your situation and it's highly likely they do, if trouble comes they'll stand aside and watch you go down, even if they could have helped you.

When dealing with women I've found it useful to ask them - the better ones - what's going on around the place because they will know every detail.  That's what women do, get details and as a network of minds they have a big picture.  You are part of that picture.  If they don't know every detail then they're hiding something, or they consider you a risk, so they'll keep to the safer, low profile.

You're in a cage with creatures worse than wild beasts, because beasts you can see and fight, but the beasts we're discussing have strategies that can destroy your mind and your certainly your life, and then take pleasure in that destruction using some bs justification.  So, you've had two warnings already, take care; be suspicious; watch your back and don't be lulled into false security.

At the same time, if they pickup on your caution and suspicions you may exacerbate any simmering enmities they have against you and they may make you a definite target.  As you say (and sadly it's true at the moment): there is wisdom in not speaking to work girls over anything non work related.  Certainly in your case say nothing that even hints romance, to put it mildly, but there are other non threatening topics beyond work that can be discussed.  (Tongue-in-cheek: discuss a rich uncle who's going to leave you millions and watch their attitudes to you change.  But, if you were found out your life at that company would be over, so keep it unless you're leaving the company very, very soon.).

I guess you've got to pretend they're men, but they're not, they're beasts, which as such enjoy destroying men and will justify each other that doing so was the right the thing.

[AllanN]

On 3/8/2018 at 2:27 PM, J.L.W said:

A girl at my workplace lead me on for ages (I have emails to this account, I keep checking I am OK saying things like 'is this inappropriate' and she says things like 'not at all') and then, when I gave her a valentines card and flowers, complained I was harassing her.

A second one made a similar complaint, to management, over a facebook comment. Perhaps they are trying to force me out I don't know.

I deleted the girls I work with off facebook after this, and although there are some there who seem a bit nicer, I can talk with a little, and do not like that first clique, I am definitely wary, will not attend any social events with the group (not a problem these rarely happen, although they are trying to) and am starting to see the wisdom in the approach of not speaking to work girls over anything non work related.

Anyone else have anything to say on this?

Going on the information you've given, you've already had two (in my opinion: unfair) warnings.  Woman are networks of minds, and sure there are good ones among them.  But if you have trouble with the others it's doubtful the good ones will ever defend you - they'll keep a low profile; it's none of their business.  Even if they know every detail of your situation and it's highly likely they do, if trouble comes they'll stand aside and watch you go down, even if they could have helped you.

When dealing with women I've found it useful to ask them - the better ones - what's going on around the place because they will know every detail.  That's what women do, get details and as a network of minds they have a big picture.  You are part of that picture.  If they don't know every detail then they're hiding something, or they consider you a risk, so they'll keep to the safer, low profile.

You're in a cage with creatures worse than wild beasts, because beasts you can see and fight, but the beasts we're discussing have strategies that can destroy your mind and your certainly your life, and then take pleasure in that destruction using some bs justification.  So, you've had two warnings already, take care; be suspicious; watch your back and don't be lulled into false security.

At the same time, if they pickup on your caution and suspicions you may exacerbate any simmering enmities they have against you and they may make you a definite target.  As you say (and sadly it's true at the moment): there is wisdom in not speaking to work girls over anything non work related.  Certainly in your case say nothing that even hints romance, to put it mildly, but there are other non threatening topics beyond work that can be discussed.  (Tongue-in-cheek: discuss a rich uncle who's going to leave you millions and watch their attitudes to you change.  But, if you were found out your life at that company would be over, so keep it unless you're leaving the company very, very soon.).

I guess you've got to pretend they're men, but they're not, they're beasts, which as such enjoy destroying men and will justify each other that doing so was the right the thing.

 

 

 

[J.L.W]

Thanks, a rational response indeed.

I am leaving the company soon ish. If hours of jobsearching per day (from next week, but already started just not "hours" yet) does not do the trick then I may have to go back to a previous job I do not want to go back to. 

I agree, I had that insight just now. It is the company that is the problem in how they handle the complaints of that nature. I was wondering if one of the girls could be reasoned with, or rather, could HAVE been reasoned with before I deleted and blocked her, could I just ask her to have brought things up with me informally first (mad talk I know!) But the truth is it doesn't matter; if that is their complaint handling procedure, then it doesn't matter who it is that eventually disagrees with me there is a countdown over my head.

[meetjoeblack]

On ‎3‎/‎8‎/‎2018 at 9:27 AM, J.L.W said:

A girl at my workplace lead me on for ages (I have emails to this account, I keep checking I am OK saying things like 'is this inappropriate' and she says things like 'not at all') and then, when I gave her a valentines card and flowers, complained I was harassing her.

A second one made a similar complaint, to management, over a facebook comment. Perhaps they are trying to force me out I don't know.

I deleted the girls I work with off facebook after this, and although there are some there who seem a bit nicer, I can talk with a little, and do not like that first clique, I am definitely wary, will not attend any social events with the group (not a problem these rarely happen, although they are trying to) and am starting to see the wisdom in the approach of not speaking to work girls over anything non work related.

Anyone else have anything to say on this?

I got a girl's number once from work (lies, several times but, I digress). 

This girl texts me all sexual, pics, nudes, etc and how she likes it rough. Then, ghosts me. Totally, no response or one word answers. 

She is not the only fish in the sea so, whateves. I go meet other girls. A month goes by and this girl comes out of the wood works texting. Due to life experience and a background in cold approach, I am well aware that when women ghost, its because playboy stopped calling or her ex dumped her. Never any exceptions. The entire time, I am indifferent and not much of a response if anything. She starts chasing. Of course I get the "I was busy" line that women give when they ghost.

I ended up getting groped by her at work and even other coworkers that were male said it was indiscrete on her part and inappropriate. Fastforward a few weeks, I run into her at a pub, and this night, I was on fire. I was chatting up lots of girls and getting numbers. She so happens to be there, attraction switches are flipped, and my being indifferent only added fuel to the fire. The girl I was pursuing got a bit too drunk and so, that did happen. The girl that ghosted I leave with. Drive her home. 

Get this. She invites me in for "coffee" at 3am lolololol

She changes out of her dress with the door open. I come in partially clothes. End up bull rushing one another till era part of the next day. 

Her guilt kicks into overdrive and "I was busy" turns into, I was fucking my ex, and he stopped calling. Shocker. She wanted me to sleep over the night. I still felt cucked partially given she ghosted and the predicament. No fucking way, I would sleep over. 

 

I left, said I would call. Of course, I never did. I just kept text messages of the entire convo in the event she ever went to HR. Pretty sure she bad mouthed me to other girls but I just used plausible deniability. Did no such thing. 

 

OP, its not worth it. Some guys get away with murder humping everything. I would get arrested or fired. Likely both attempting the following. If I were to have guessed, using my phone, and video taping the encounter for HR likely was the only reason she didn't go full retardo and report me for harassment even though she propositioned me. Technically, I got sexually harassed in the workplace lol 

[meetjoeblack]

16 hours ago, J.L.W said:

Thanks, a rational response indeed.

I am leaving the company soon ish. If hours of jobsearching per day (from next week, but already started just not "hours" yet) does not do the trick then I may have to go back to a previous job I do not want to go back to. 

I agree, I had that insight just now. It is the company that is the problem in how they handle the complaints of that nature. I was wondering if one of the girls could be reasoned with, or rather, could HAVE been reasoned with before I deleted and blocked her, could I just ask her to have brought things up with me informally first (mad talk I know!) But the truth is it doesn't matter; if that is their complaint handling procedure, then it doesn't matter who it is that eventually disagrees with me there is a countdown over my head.

Man, you dropped the ball. Don't ever make public displays of affection to women in your work. Its foolish. School boy error. 

If anything, be ambiguous, vague, indifferent, and let women initiate. The juice is never worth the squeeze IMHO and experience. Its a headache and it is never casual no matter how much they try to say it will be. Furthermore, you cannot bring out the violin and cry foul. She can always play that victim narrative and destroy your career. 

In the predicament I shared, I took her home, a male coworker caught her sexually harassing me (in the event it went to HR), and furthermore, I video tapped going 15 rds from 3am till 6am back at her place. The video tape on my phone was renamed "coffee." What she invited me in for after the pub. 

I wish things were different. Like, I wish this was not a scenario one would have to worry about but, I always archive text convos, screen shots, snapchats, nudes, emails etc. in the event things go tits up. 

 

If you play with fire, you will get burned. In all probability, if you have a video on your phone of clapping them cheeks, she is less likely to go to HR after though, she could call it blackmail even still. best left undone. 

[J.L.W]

13 hours ago, meetjoeblack said:

Man, you dropped the ball. Don't ever make public displays of affection to women in your work. Its foolish. School boy error. 

I don't mind having done that. I liked her, I sent her a card and whatnot and... yep, "got burned".

I'd rather have sent that than scheming.

 

[AllanN]

On 3/10/2018 at 11:43 AM, J.L.W said:

Thanks, a rational response indeed.

I am leaving the company soon ish. If hours of jobsearching per day (from next week, but already started just not "hours" yet) does not do the trick then I may have to go back to a previous job I do not want to go back to. 

I agree, I had that insight just now. It is the company that is the problem in how they handle the complaints of that nature. I was wondering if one of the girls could be reasoned with, or rather, could HAVE been reasoned with before I deleted and blocked her, could I just ask her to have brought things up with me informally first (mad talk I know!) But the truth is it doesn't matter; if that is their complaint handling procedure, then it doesn't matter who it is that eventually disagrees with me there is a countdown over my head.

Appreciate it!  It's unreal there's a countdown over your head, but at least you're aware of that.  Info is so important which women have in cart loads.  Reason with her, yeah agreed, it would be nice but sadly, risky.  When I was in similar situations I got by personally by being hard nosed and cold; strictly business.  Not nice for me either, but it worked.  Good luck fellas.

[J.L.W]

The company actually flipped and started handling this better and told the relevant people to handle it informally first, possibly in response to my response to them.

Probably should not bring this sort of thing up here before it gets serious. Suppose this was not a serious issue.

[GoodJBoy]

Flirting with women in the workplace is flirting with big trouble.  Make friends with the guys and keep it professional with the unprofessional gals. 

I remember seeing an attractive girl who would go and talk to this poor guy about Howard Stern and all kinds of sex jokes.  One day, he comes up to her and brings up a Howard Stern subject and she decides that she was offended and went straight to HR.  Next day he was escorted out although he was a great guy and a hard working productive employee.

With that said, marriage is a good thing for a man.  Working with women in the workplace is a bad thing for men.

[J.L.W]

2 hours ago, GoodJBoy said:

Flirting with women in the workplace is flirting with big trouble.  Make friends with the guys and keep it professional with the unprofessional gals. 

I remember seeing an attractive girl who would go and talk to this poor guy about Howard Stern and all kinds of sex jokes.  One day, he comes up to her and brings up a Howard Stern subject and she decides that she was offended and went straight to HR.  Next day he was escorted out although he was a great guy and a hard working productive employee.

With that said, marriage is a good thing for a man.  Working with women in the workplace is a bad thing for men.

Yeah, I'm very fortunate in that I don't like sex jokes even a little bit. My stomach turns over at the mention of anything vulgar, sometimes sexual themes float into my lyrics but not very sexual things and music has a beautiful ambiguity to it.

I do think the world is starting to get wise to this behaviour from women. This is clearly where we must press on!

[lorry]

On 3/8/2018 at 2:27 PM, J.L.W said:

A girl at my workplace lead me on for ages (I have emails to this account, I keep checking I am OK saying things like 'is this inappropriate' and she says things like 'not at all') and then, when I gave her a valentines card and flowers, complained I was harassing her.

A second one made a similar complaint, to management, over a facebook comment. Perhaps they are trying to force me out I don't know.

I deleted the girls I work with off facebook after this, and although there are some there who seem a bit nicer, I can talk with a little, and do not like that first clique, I am definitely wary, will not attend any social events with the group (not a problem these rarely happen, although they are trying to) and am starting to see the wisdom in the approach of not speaking to work girls over anything non work related.

Anyone else have anything to say on this?

 

So I'm guessing she is at your level, or there about, in terms of work position. I mean, she isn't your manager is she? And she isn't your's, is she? So you don't have a position of authority going for you. 

And "you keep checking if you are OK". So you had an objection to her behavior, and you didn't manage to establish boundaries on acceptable behavior from her. So you failed a huge shit test there. You don't come of as assertive. I think that should tell you that she's out of your league. That is what I get. I think she would get that too.

So she was interested in you somewhat (leading you on, as you say), and your flirting, and you fail to provide evidence of some the manly qualities she wants. She probably figures she can do better, you I think, haven't grasped she is out of your league. And I'm guessing you haven't managed to get her out for some real dates, eh? And you send her flowers and a card, which she receives in front of everyone!? Dude...

I've read the responses about "women as beasts" and all that. Utter horse shit.

From her perspective, you failed to establish yourself at a suitable partner, failed to obtain real dates, real commitment. So she is looking about for other partners. And you, in front of everyone, drop her roses and flowers which, thb, puts her in a horrible position. She either has to publicly accept your advances and effectively commit to you, or reject you and explain the rejection to everyone, including anyone she might be interested in besides you. And the only way to do that is to explain that the flowers and card are inappropriate, which, they really, really, are. And because they are inappropriate, yeah, that is kind of harassment-ey. I mean, it would be a single incident, and harassment is a persistent pattern of behavior, that is harassment-ey,

Don't get me wrong, I'm really sorry that this has had a negative impact on your career, and I wish you all the best, but based on what you have written this is totally your fucking fault.

[J.L.W]

On 11/03/2018 at 9:28 PM, AllanN said:

Appreciate it!  It's unreal there's a countdown over your head, but at least you're aware of that.  Info is so important which women have in cart loads.  Reason with her, yeah agreed, it would be nice but sadly, risky.  When I was in similar situations I got by personally by being hard nosed and cold; strictly business.  Not nice for me either, but it worked.  Good luck fellas.

Thanks for this response!

'Reasoning with her' did not go well.

On 23/03/2018 at 1:05 AM, lorry said:

 

So I'm guessing she is at your level, or there about, in terms of work position. I mean, she isn't your manager is she? And she isn't your's, is she? So you don't have a position of authority going for you. 

And "you keep checking if you are OK". So you had an objection to her behavior, and you didn't manage to establish boundaries on acceptable behavior from her. So you failed a huge shit test there. You don't come of as assertive. I think that should tell you that she's out of your league. That is what I get. I think she would get that too.

So she was interested in you somewhat (leading you on, as you say), and your flirting, and you fail to provide evidence of some the manly qualities she wants. She probably figures she can do better, you I think, haven't grasped she is out of your league. And I'm guessing you haven't managed to get her out for some real dates, eh? And you send her flowers and a card, which she receives in front of everyone!? Dude...

I've read the responses about "women as beasts" and all that. Utter horse shit.

From her perspective, you failed to establish yourself at a suitable partner, failed to obtain real dates, real commitment. So she is looking about for other partners. And you, in front of everyone, drop her roses and flowers which, thb, puts her in a horrible position. She either has to publicly accept your advances and effectively commit to you, or reject you and explain the rejection to everyone, including anyone she might be interested in besides you. And the only way to do that is to explain that the flowers and card are inappropriate, which, they really, really, are. And because they are inappropriate, yeah, that is kind of harassment-ey. I mean, it would be a single incident, and harassment is a persistent pattern of behavior, that is harassment-ey,

Don't get me wrong, I'm really sorry that this has had a negative impact on your career, and I wish you all the best, but based on what you have written this is totally your fucking fault.

Wow, I looked over some of your previous posts and you're a piece of work :).

If you attempt to 'establish suitable boundaries of acceptable behaviour' on modern women, in a workplace she is very rooted in no less, then... well... it goes very badly. I have tried this before and it has not worked. They use the full force of the establishment against you. I often think as well this is pseudo talk. 'Boundaries' etc. It's an excuse used by post feminist demon women who need an excuse to treat others like dirt.

Outside the psychology of this particular girl. In my view the way the company handles complaints is very dangerous to me. THIS is my practical problem (i.e. this is the point):

One of the things the company had a go at me for contained absolutely no sexual or romantic element to it. Basically, the company sees it as its own right to tell me what can or cannot go on my facebook; and when combined with this girl whom I had some history with and then suddenly turned around and made the complaint when practically, that may not have been emotionally convenient for her but is within the bounds of the light positivity, we have been engaging in for a long time. Plus, Valentines gifts can be anonymous and not require a response.

Even if it is considered legitimate for this girl to take it official before communicating personally. There are other instances that stack up unfavourably for me.

Ah, I feel like I'm falling into quicksand when I talk about that girl specifically. The practical problem I have is there are no boundaries the company has established for themselves. If I were to message a(nother) girl who has messaged me a bit for instance and say something that 'offends' her, even absolutely unintentionally, then the company will crack down if she complains. The complaints will stack up and are not time sensitive. A similar complaint in a year would reference any complaint said today. If I state that 'look she sent me these messages' these will not be admissable in any sort of defence. Because that's how these people have previously dealt with this area. It is completely and absolutely guilt by accusation. It is not even 'guilty until proven innocent' because I am not allowed to offer potential proof of innocence.

At this point we are just beating a dead horse anyway. These people, whatever their intention, have the effect of creating a nasty toxic atmosphere for me personally. Women are not gods and should not be given the full power of the establishment to do their bidding. I need to leave.

I could address the other statements you made here... s- tests etc. Dominance behaviours and whatnot but that is really a very, very secondary point. Which I think is reflected in my other posts here. A relevant note is that the valentines girl is not a freak and did handle the situation differently when she perceived the problem. Ironically, very ironically, I am safer with her than any of the others at this point because it's likely she will not escalate without warning.

Thanks for your responses.

[J.L.W]

Just trying to reach a conclusion here. Which I do believe is important.

Basically. I was thinking about it today. There is a younger girl I work with. I just thought I'm not going to make her life difficult i.e. de- friending on facebook, setting boundaries that make things difficult. When she has not actually done anything. It's like those hardcore feminist say all men are x, y or z. Sheesh.

I am wondering a lot about the practice of refusing to spend time alone with girls in these settings. So the young one is temporarilly in a management position while the manager is away and sometimes there are one to one things, like in a single room, between management and staff. Like checking on efficiency etc. Not something I will actually have to consider with her this time around but a hypothetical I could very easily meet in a future setting. Since the previous manager was female but older and very overweight and she just put people at ease, I had no instinctual problem being in a one to one with her, I don't know if I can maintain that level of 'selectivity'. Won't be in the room with a young girl BUT, someone I know did have a problem. There were about ten witnesses he did nothing wrong and the police took over a year to close the case causing him stress. Crazy world.

But then she was a random not a girl he actually knew in any way.

I am reminded when I went to accompany my young sister to the dentist and the dentist asked me to come in the room and looked very anxious, like actually scared in his eyes that I had not followed her in. There was another nurse in the room as well. It is a legal issue that I have to be in the room he told me! While she of course was on her own level completely unaware of the power given to her by a corrupted State.

Jordan Peterson once said, I have come to realise this is very true, that people that are creative, some of the people he has counselled go a bit mad if they do not engage in the creativity. That a creative person. Be that artistic etc. that does not do their thing is like a tree without any roots. I think this is very true. If I practice, like properly practice music then I am able to function far better. I did a lot of it when I was young and a conventional explanation might be my brain has adapted to needing it. I practice properly only for an hour a day but if I want to and have the time I do more. What I wonder is, if I need to do that then a non music career might be difficult? Anyway, questions for another day. I did hours yesterday including a nauseating amount of scales but still will do it today as well. Because that's what you do if you like music!