Ronin_3000 Posted March 21, 2018 Posted March 21, 2018 I like having unprotected sex, and would do it with many girls if possible. The reason is because it is more pleasurable than wearing a condom. I theorize that the reason I seek the pleasure of raw sex is because some capacity for pleasure was taken from me through circumcision. I recognize that unprotected casual sex is a potential act of child abuse in that it can result in an unwanted pregnancy. I am not thoroughly evaluating the characters of women I sleep with, so the women may potentially be abusive mothers. The women may decide to have abortions, which is murder. If the women decide to have the babies, I think I might run away from being a father. I asked my therapist if someone like me who risks the well-being of children in exchange for carnal pleasure is morally corrupt or should have children. He said that morally corrupt is too strong a term, and would say I am morally problematic or something like that. He also said single-motherhood is not necessarily a bad thing. That even if I run away from my children, the children may still have good lives. What do you think about my views and my therapists views regarding them?
eschiedler Posted March 21, 2018 Posted March 21, 2018 Love of sex is an unconscious act and since intercourse in humans is used as a means to an end to satisfy lusts it is immoral. Pursuit of more and more of it is evidence that you are avoiding thinking deeply and consciously. Of course, you can't help it. Therapists are not wise people, if they were, they would not be therapists. Primarily, they are there to monitor patients against self-harm until they return to homeostasis as defined by a statistical norm (that is, is the person ceases to be in a crisis and returns to "normal").
Ronin_3000 Posted March 21, 2018 Author Posted March 21, 2018 Why is satisfying lusts immoral? Isn't eating satisfying a lust? Why does Stefan recommend therapy if therapists aren't wise?
Jot Posted March 21, 2018 Posted March 21, 2018 Have you listened to the recent call-in show with the circumcised 20 old?
eschiedler Posted March 21, 2018 Posted March 21, 2018 4 hours ago, Ronin_3000 said: Why is satisfying lusts immoral? Isn't eating satisfying a lust? Why does Stefan recommend therapy if therapists aren't wise? Lust is to sex what Gluttony is to eating. That you would conflate the two is quite telling. Basically, because it is mindless, and using another person to your own ends, therefore it is criminal type thinking. Far different is to think deeply about life and orient yourself toward what is true and just. Whatever advice you hear from anyone, anywhere, including this, it is up to you to completely be responsible whether you agree or not.
barn Posted March 21, 2018 Posted March 21, 2018 Hi @Ronin_3000 Perhaps I'm wrong... 1. Are you looking to cause harm? (conscious, weighed outcomes...) 2. Are you trying to provoke people here? 6 hours ago, Ronin_3000 said: would do it with many girls if possible. 6 hours ago, Ronin_3000 said: I recognize 6 hours ago, Ronin_3000 said: I am not thoroughly evaluating Because by acting as such, you'll be instrumental in seeing suffering. This part is a long shot... And it won't make your own suffering any bearable, only momentarily and for a worse thirst afterwards. 'Digging, while in a ditch.'
Ronin_3000 Posted March 21, 2018 Author Posted March 21, 2018 3 hours ago, Jot said: Have you listened to the recent call-in show with the circumcised 20 old? Yup. I identify a lot with him. One part in which we differ is that I am more selfish than him. Stefan convinced him that he can achieve fulfillment by stopping future circumcisions, but I am envious of people who aren't cut. I experience a sense of comfort when I see cut dicks in porn, and I feel a sense of happiness, or schadenfreude when there is someone who's worse off than me like the caller.
Ronin_3000 Posted March 21, 2018 Author Posted March 21, 2018 3 minutes ago, barn said: Hi @Ronin_3000 Perhaps I'm wrong... 1. Are you looking to cause harm? (conscious, weighed outcomes...) 2. Are you trying to provoke people here? I'm not looking to cause harm. I don't think I'm trying to provoke people. I guess it depends on what you mean by provoke. I recognize that my lust might never be satisfied no matter how many different women I have sex with. I don't really have any other higher goal in my mind than sex though.
barn Posted March 21, 2018 Posted March 21, 2018 5 minutes ago, Ronin_3000 said: I'm not looking to cause harm. I don't think I'm trying to provoke people. I guess it depends on what you mean by provoke. I recognize that my lust might never be satisfied no matter how many different women I have sex with. I don't really have any other higher goal in my mind than sex though. That sounds like an honest response. Appreciate that.
Ronin_3000 Posted March 23, 2018 Author Posted March 23, 2018 6 hours ago, barn said: Do you smoke @Ronin_3000 ? Nope, but I have enjoyed marijuana about a dozen times in the past. I've smoked hooka twice and enjoyed it. I had the urge to smoke weed yesterday when I heard that the kids from the Hampstead alleged satanic cult were able to recount their stories in such exquisite detail possibly because their stepfather gave them cannabis products.
Ronin_3000 Posted March 23, 2018 Author Posted March 23, 2018 I answered you, but my post is pending approval for some reason. Anyway, the short answer is no.
barn Posted March 23, 2018 Posted March 23, 2018 6 hours ago, Ronin_3000 said: I answered you, but my post is pending approval for some reason. Anyway, the short answer is no. Thanks for the heads up. I'll be reading that too, once it's appeared. Say, you wanted to make the case for me, to give it up. What would you be saying? (hypothetical, you might not be interested in doing so but just for the sake of this point... how about, you did so as an experiment, here?)
Ronin_3000 Posted March 23, 2018 Author Posted March 23, 2018 I would say you're using smoking as self-medication for an underlying issue. Maybe you should try to address the issue rather than use drugs.
barn Posted March 23, 2018 Posted March 23, 2018 Thanks. What do you think about the relationship between addiction and self medication? What would you say is the point, at which they become separate categories (if they're connected)?
Ronin_3000 Posted March 23, 2018 Author Posted March 23, 2018 I would say they never become separate categories. Addiction is just a more extreme form of self-medication.
barn Posted March 23, 2018 Posted March 23, 2018 Does that mean it's possible to say that a person is self medicating when no longer possessing the sickness?
Ronin_3000 Posted March 23, 2018 Author Posted March 23, 2018 I see your point. Maybe addiction could be when a person continues using a drug out of habit rather than for its effects. However, one could make the argument that addiction would only occur if there was still an issue that needed medicating.
barn Posted March 23, 2018 Posted March 23, 2018 Yes, I could see why that could make sense in some circumstances. Quite a few things in the material and abstract realms can be used to create 'self-sustaining' cycles. As I'm trying to think alongside in this discussion, something came to mind about the illusion of needs... Are you familiar with the 'tied-to-a-pole elephant' example?
Ronin_3000 Posted March 23, 2018 Author Posted March 23, 2018 I wasn't familiar, but I just looked it up, so now I'm familiar.
barn Posted March 23, 2018 Posted March 23, 2018 1 minute ago, Ronin_3000 said: I wasn't familiar, but I just looked it up, so now I'm familiar. How do you understand it?
Ronin_3000 Posted March 23, 2018 Author Posted March 23, 2018 When you try something and fail in childhood, you don't try as an adult because you've been conditioned to think you'll fail.
barn Posted March 23, 2018 Posted March 23, 2018 (edited) (LOL) - You might consider extending that a tiny bit, not saying you are generally wrong. I'm just thinking about having a conversation regarding people being conditioned and acting deterministically, on the world's most important philosophical forum that might look strange. (I know, I brought it up...) Edited March 23, 2018 by barn nomeme, clarification
Ronin_3000 Posted March 23, 2018 Author Posted March 23, 2018 Not sure what you're getting at. If I was to extend the elephant thing, then I might say failing as an adult might make you not want to try again as an adult. Are you asking how I think the elephant thing relates to me?
barn Posted March 23, 2018 Posted March 23, 2018 You're right, I didn't describe what I was thinking with enough detail. In my life I have seen some patterns diminish, others I had stopped/replaced. Yet another group still exists but with fewer and fewer elements. (One in this group being smoking, an addiction of mine.) When I look at people 'giving up/stopping', there's a clear separation between those who've done it as part of a process where they had internalised, concluded things. The other group are forced to act differently, one way or another. Which group do you think has a higher chance to keep their new, better heading? Elephants can do cool things and all but don't think they are capable of abstractions at the level of (or at all) humans. Seeing them not being capable to snap a flimsy rope, is not something that we can apply for humans 1:1. We have the capacity to change our opinions, seek out new information and choose to interact with it. What do you think about these statements: 1. Not being able to break a habit/addiction, doesn't mean it can't happen with better/more relevant information. 2. Not looking to verify our own belief systems however does mean we won't be able to make a change and are most likely ruled / slaves of illusions.
Ronin_3000 Posted March 23, 2018 Author Posted March 23, 2018 1 minute ago, barn said: Which group do you think has a higher chance to keep their new, better heading? I guess the person who chooses. 2 minutes ago, barn said: 1. Not being able to break a habit/addiction, doesn't mean it can't happen with better/more relevant information. Agreed. 4 minutes ago, barn said: 2. Not looking to verify our own belief systems however does mean we won't be able to make a change and are most likely ruled / slaves of illusions. Not sure what you mean by verify our own belief systems.
barn Posted March 23, 2018 Posted March 23, 2018 13 minutes ago, Ronin_3000 said: I guess the person who chooses. Agreed. Not sure what you mean by verify our own belief systems. ... this is how I think of it. Humans in general are meaning making machines(automatically generated conclusions, without any effort). Some assessments are better descriptions of reality, others are worse. When we think something is true, we can compare/evaluate stuff to see whether what we'd thought was correct or not. We can test the conclusions by applying them, making predictions and repeating the process all over. Mostly. It's like, you won't step over a puddle unless you are conscious of it/open to seeing it. But you'll always keep getting your shoes wet if you aren't prepared to look where you step. Again, at large. Thankfully or not, humans have the capacity to make the decision of 1.looking for information, 2. changing their behaviour if desired.
Ronin_3000 Posted March 23, 2018 Author Posted March 23, 2018 I agree with that. How does this relate to me or the elephant on the rope?
barn Posted March 23, 2018 Posted March 23, 2018 Because these questions are pointing towards a few unexamined convictions in my most humbly humble opinion, that which you'd started to explore, you could have better answers to these very dilemmas. On 03/21/2018 at 3:59 PM, Ronin_3000 said: I theorize that the reason I seek the pleasure of raw sex is because some capacity for pleasure was taken from me through circumcision. On 03/21/2018 at 3:59 PM, Ronin_3000 said: I recognize that unprotected casual sex is a potential act of child abuse in that it can result in an unwanted pregnancy. I am not thoroughly evaluating the characters On 03/21/2018 at 3:59 PM, Ronin_3000 said: I asked my therapist if someone like me who risks the well-being of children in exchange for carnal pleasure is morally corrupt or should have children. I'M NO PROFESSIONAL AND THESE ARE MY AMATEUR (AND RESPECTFUL) VIEWS.
barn Posted March 23, 2018 Posted March 23, 2018 Let me add that, a few days ago I had a conversation with someone who is having doubts about their relationship with the partner. It started out as a casual description of their last quarrel over some inconsequential stuff but when I heard there was a high-ish possibility of STDs being in the picture and how my 'friend' didn't see why that was abuse/enabling lifethreatening risks when I pointed it out... I asked myself: 'What does my 'friend' value more/thinks, it is of higher value, that overwrites the risk of potentially deadly STDs?' It's anecdotal stuff, I know... What I'm getting at is... Real answers are always very close and DO make a huge difference. People can choose to look or not.
Ronin_3000 Posted March 23, 2018 Author Posted March 23, 2018 I said in my first post that I think the thing I value is pleasure. If not that, what could it be? A feeling of being desired?
barn Posted March 23, 2018 Posted March 23, 2018 No, you said "seek". Everybody values pleasure. Be it masochistic pleasure, the same. Am I right? 3 minutes ago, Ronin_3000 said: A feeling of being desired? I don't know. 3 minutes ago, Ronin_3000 said: what could it be? Fully 'agree'.
barn Posted March 23, 2018 Posted March 23, 2018 By the way, these are VERY big questions. Hard ones for anyone to face. I think it is commendable that you keep a constructive and open minded attitude about it. Also, I hope I'm not putting words into your mouth at any point. Please, do tell if you suspected it being the case.
barn Posted March 23, 2018 Posted March 23, 2018 2 minutes ago, Ronin_3000 said: No, you're fine. Good, so far.
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