Questions about Sex

[Spladam]

Question #1: Does it matter when someone has sex for the first time?

I'm really unsure about the answer for a few reasons:

1. Apparently after someone has had about 3 sexual partners, their chances of getting divorced and just being a bad parent in general begin to increase. (According to stef in a video which I can't find)

2. If this first point is true, then does it matter if you have random sex or sex with a friend? Shouldn't someone have sex with someone they love? If you reach the 3rd person and you're no longer together, then you're screwing yourself over (statistically speaking).

3. Are virgins generally more motivated in life than non-virgins? If so, then that energy could be used for making great(er) things happen in one's life. If this is the case, then shouldn't someone stay a virgin for a long time?

4. Is it true that everyone remembers their first time? If so, then how do would one know whether or not their partner will go back to that person for sex later? How can you be truly dedicated to someone if you enjoy remembering sex you had with other people?

 

Question #2: Does it matter how many people someone has had sex with?

This is in regard to finding a suitable woman to possibly pro-create with in the future. 

Can someone really change their ways and become loyal & committed to one person for the rest of their life if they've spent most of their adulthood pursuing lots of f***buddies?

 

I'll add some more questions later on once these 2 fundamentals have been sorted. 

[FutureBankRobber]

1. I remember the video too, I think you're about right on this point.

2. What do you mean by "does it matter?" I believe the statistic was for sexual partner regardless of how involved they were.

3. I have no idea how would you even begin to answer this question. How would we even measure? And if we could compare achievements of virgin vs non-virgin, how would be isolate that the only difference between the two groups is being a virgin and not some other factor? 

4. I believe it's true.  How would you know your partner won't cheat you? Well well. I have fond memories of my first inline skates, that doesn't mean it was the best or that I wish to go back to them. People are not objects and so your best bet is making the best decision the first time and trying to stick to it.

 

Isn't the question two the same as the question one? I believe it was more specific for woman actually, that the more sexual encounters they had the least likely they would be to be happy in a marriage.

And people can change their ways, yes. But like smoking, would you take the risk?

[RichardY]

 

[barn]

Hi @Spladam

Good to see you back! I saw, you had fun with the tags...

My contribution boils down to:

Consequences don't care about our intentions.

Deferral of gratification, putting things off until the right time, is harder to do if one's avoiding understanding/not trying to figure out what's going to be the consequence of acting solely on the impulses of 'the lizard brain'. Additionally, equally important, the true-self can make good decisions about compatibility of values ONLY.

On 04/28/2018 at 7:11 AM, Spladam said:

after someone has had about 3 sexual partners, their chances

I agree with Stefan Molyneux's assessment because (empirical proofs) I have found people who have had less partners to be more dedicated to the relationship at hand and more truthful with themselves in general. Those who have had more partners have always tended to be less devoted to making things work out and more often than not, they simply had no clue of who they really were or what their true feelings were and why that was... they'd be continually jerked around by their false self (or allowing manipulation)... I'm repeating myself.

It's also logically sound because the more you know what you want/makes you happy, the better choices you can make resulting in less incentive for trying something new.

There are circumstances in which what I'm saying do not apply in the same fashion, such as:

(a possible exception) less sexual partners: when someone is not having relationships out of fear and the deferral isn't so much a principle but a consequence of fear, they have not internalised the reasons. Kinda' not the end of the world...

(a possible exception) more sexual partners: when someone is coming from a difficult origin and they're working their way through self-knowledge, the quality of their relationships has had a provable upward curve of improvement, duration, stability. The past can't be undone, it's there the same as the lessons learned, behaviours changed. (If I had to guess, I'd say Stefan Molyneux is closer to this group than the others)

e.g.

Not sure if it's the best example but one way to look at it is, as if you were comparing someone who'd changed jobs several times in the past for getting a new one (or sacked, here it makes little difference) to someone who has always worked at the same place.

Have I been clear? Does it makes sense to you?

On 04/28/2018 at 7:11 AM, Spladam said:

If this first point is true, then does it matter if you have random sex or sex with a friend?

Yes it does. It's like saying 'You're a wonderful person! I want to spend time with you!' - randomly.

With a friend it's different (not sure what's your definition of 'friend', maybe explain if you'd like) as you are changing the relationship to something else. I'm certain (to me), after sleeping with a 'friend', the sky-high risk of losing the essence of trust is inevitable... It's like admittance to lack of self-control, posing a risk from that point on.

On 04/28/2018 at 7:11 AM, Spladam said:

3. Are virgins generally more motivated in life than non-virgins? If so, then that energy could be used for making great(er) things happen in one's life. If this is the case, then shouldn't someone stay a virgin for a long time?

Please clarify (if you do/did elsewhere, let me know)

To do what? In return for what?

Staying virgin for a long... Definitely until conscious and measured decisions can be made, responsibility taking is happening. I'd say it's preferable then, yes.

On 04/28/2018 at 7:11 AM, Spladam said:

4. Is it true that everyone remembers their first time?

Generally speaking, yes, I believe that is true. Given, such huge emotional charge, nothing comparable prior... etc.

However, based on some of my past not being fully accessible to me (very blurry), abuse can get those memories miss-placed in one's storage of recollections. It's possible to unearth if not all but most of those 'lost items', me thinks.

On 04/28/2018 at 7:11 AM, Spladam said:

Can someone really change their ways and become loyal & committed to one person for the rest of their life if they've spent most of their adulthood pursuing lots of f***buddies?

This is not to denigrate what you are asking but to illustrate a point:

Is your question analogous to,

Can someone change their ways and live healthily if they've spent most of their adulthood obese, continously making self-destructive life choices?

As some opportunities are forever lost/can't be substituted for (permanent damage), how massive is the counter force that's required to make a noticeable, meaningful change in the now new and opposing direction?

[Spladam]

Just now, FutureBankRobber said:

How would we even measure?

By comparing people's motivation before and after their first time and seeing what the results are. Not only that, but by also looking at other related factors, we can account for any more/less motivation caused by another factor and not the sex.

Yeah, my questions were a bit muddled, I tried to ask a very personal question in such a way that it wasn't personal, and ended up sounding a bit strange, my bad.

[Spladam]

Just now, barn said:

Hi @Spladam

Good to see you back! I saw, you had fun with the tags...

Haha, what are the purpose of tags here anyway? Does anyone actually know?

Also, it's good to chat to you again too  

Just now, barn said:

Have I been clear? Does it makes sense to you?

Yeah, I think so

So basically what you're saying is that it's of utmost importance to select based upon values & principle more so than past experience, but that being said, most of the time, past experience is a good indicator of future behavior.

Just now, barn said:

Can someone change their ways and live healthily if they've spent most of their adulthood obese, continously making self-destructive life choices?

Actually, I'm glad you brought this up, because it reminded me of 2 statistics which are both the same percentage: The number of people who keep their weight off after 10 years of weight loss, and, The number of people who remain virgins until marriage. They're both 3%. I think there might be a correlation...

[Spladam]

Just now, barn said:

Yes it does. It's like saying 'You're a wonderful person! I want to spend time with you!' - randomly.

With a friend it's different (not sure what's your definition of 'friend', maybe explain if you'd like) as you are changing the relationship to something else. I'm certain (to me), after sleeping with a 'friend', the sky-high risk of losing the essence of trust is inevitable... It's like admittance to lack of self-control, posing a risk from that point on.

Let's say that this is in regard to someone else, should they be considered as a desirable partner if what you're looking for is a committed and loyal life partner? 

[barn]

9 hours ago, Spladam said:

So basically what you're saying is that it's of utmost importance to select based upon values & principle more so than past experience, but that being said, most of the time, past experience is a good indicator of future behavior.

I tried to explain the consequences associated with lacking an understanding behind who we are, why we do things and argue against my generalisations with examples of exceptions where it could be possible to observe the same principles work differently.

If I could choose a message for you to be taken away from it, it'd sound something like this: THINK! DON'T ACT WITHOUT IT! HAVE BALLS AND TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR WHAT YOU'VE DONE, ALWAYS! STAY CURIOUS!

(I don't know how it will fly with you, but I obviously wish you the best so the allcapps and bold is for effect only, I know you're a smart and probably nice 'fella'.)

... me said...

9 hours ago, Spladam said:

Can someone change their ways and live healthily if they've spent most of their adulthood obese, continously making self-destructive life choices?

... you followed up...

9 hours ago, Spladam said:

Actually, I'm glad you brought this up, because it reminded me of 2 statistics which are both the same percentage: The number of people who keep their weight off after 10 years of weight loss, and, The number of people who remain virgins until marriage. They're both 3%. I think there might be a correlation...

Can I offer up a perspective for the taking? Let me know if you agreed:

Aiming for the stars and landing on the highest mountain doesn't mean you have failed. Be weary of those who set unachievable standards, never cut you slack even when considerable effort has been invested... (I see those people sadists, soft- or hard-core... whatever, the principle is the same. Credit is due where struggle has been made, alongside with an honest assessment. NOTHING LESS!)

Be practical and don't hold back when you could be giving your best/your virtues can grow... fuck procrastination but be smart and don't waste your precious, valuable, finite, unique opportunity costs!!! Use them for good, or the least for 'not messing up/around'. That's what I strongly believe/uphold.

... me said...

9 hours ago, Spladam said:

Yes it does. It's like saying 'You're a wonderful person! I want to spend time with you!' - randomly.

With a friend it's different (not sure what's your definition of 'friend', maybe explain if you'd like) as you are changing the relationship to something else. I'm certain (to me), after sleeping with a 'friend', the sky-high risk of losing the essence of trust is inevitable... It's like admittance to lack of self-control, posing a risk from that point on.

... to which, you...

9 hours ago, Spladam said:

Let's say that this is in regard to someone else, (1)should they be considered as a desirable partner if what you're looking for is a (2)committed and (3)loyal life partner? 

Erm... Ehh.. Sure, a'right. No worries.

Desi... - rable...

To me, that's someone I look up to. Like a painting or a street performer that you can't walk by. I mean, you could if you had to but for some reason (good reasons) you stop in your tracks and just want to see more, take in what's 'there'. A person I look up to can capture my attention, seemingly without my participation, can amuse me with something that just 'rings true' to me. (btw, it's how the 'μ-Ziq for U' thread is maintained) It's effectively the same in women too... i.e. - superior self knowledge, self-awareness... arouses my curiosity immediately. And then there are other virtues that tend to have the same influence such as: integrity, 'on a virtuous mission'... etc. You'd think that these are big words 'n all but actually they are only visible/detectable in their true form if your vision is adapted...

Be careful with only focusing on 'committed' or 'loyal' as they in themselves solely, don't include prescribing to truth... which in my opinion comes before anyone or anything else. What I'm trying to say with this is, there's a very important difference between:

Achieving a thing but not with the right methodology.

vs.

Failing to achieve a thing, while the methodology is sound.

(I denounce the validity of utilitarianism, no learning possible, quick shortcuts but no internalisation, no 'gradual increase' effect.)

The reason is, you won't be able to retain a lesson, can’t distinguish between preferable other than momentary happiness.

In short: The risk (as I see it) of failing lomg term is very high, even though on the short-run you could seemingly be happy with acquiring 'that'.

[Jsbrads]

I’m pretty sure Barn said everything I wanted to say and much more.

Just wanted to reiterate, there is no hard number. 3 may be a good rule of thumb, but it won’t break someone. And even the best rule of thumb, isn’t a concrete rule that doesn’t have exceptions.

It is hard to change if you ignored your human needs for real emotional intimacy and supplant it with sex. The longer a person ignores what they truly need, the harder it is to get back to where they need to be, but no one is so far gone that they have no chance for salvation.

[Anne Guillory]

I lost my virginity at 18. There is absolutely no way in hell that I would ever contemplate being with him again.

MOST people don’t change...However, I happen to be one of those that did. Of course, it took me 40 years and counseling, along with lots of research and reading to only find out why I was the way I was, but not how to CHANGE IT. Then, one day, my brother sends me this you tube video, titled “my girlfriend’s in the attic” and then another one about a guy dating a super model. After that, I was unstoppable! The key was finally holding myself responsible for all the crappy choices I had made, instead of playing the victim and blaming men for everything. Nowadays, you could not PAY me to cheat, lie, or disrespect my man. I finally get it. It’s impossible to truly love someone and treat them as most women do. I was one of those “it’s my way or the highway” women and if they didn’t like something that I did, I knew that there would be another man willing to take his place. That’s how horrible of a person I was! I’m ashamed to say it, but I was a selfish POS. I acted that way because I never wanted to “need” a man. I was hyper independent, made 6 figures a year, had my own small ranch, built my own house, worked on my own tractor, and never depended on anyone financially. I also thought that marriage was the worst thing that could happen to two people (no thanks to the horrible example that my parents set for me). Now, almost two years after my brother sent me that first video, my outlook is completely the opposite! I just celebrated two years dating a man who was just as dysfunctional as I was with relationships. I am happier than I have ever been, and I absolutely KNOW that I will never treat him the way that I treated every man before him. We are not perfect, but with my newfound knowledge, I am able to calmly and maturely talk to him about my insecurities, as well as his. I always try to set the example and be the better person even when things have gotten tense. I now know that most of the hurtful things we say and do to our partners, have nothing to do with them and EVERYTHING to do with us and our own insecurities. For the first time in my life, I actually WANT to be married and can see spending the rest of my life with him. For the first time in my life, I’m not threatening to break up with him, or leave him, and I’m happy doing things that make HIM happy. I’m ok if things aren’t exactly the way I want them, unlike my old selfish self. He actually listens to videos and podcasts with me and we talk about how dysfunctional our past relationships were and the dysfunction of the relationships around us. It’s unlike anything I have ever had with anyone. I’d rather be with him than anyone else. And sex? Sex is unlike anything I have had with anyone else- not because we are doing flying trapeze tricks but because we truly care deeply for one another. 

So, I think that, yes! the biggest predictor of the future is someone’s past...but I know that every once in a while someone can truly be enlightened. It’s just a matter of finding that person. Which, I admit, is not easy.