Is Forgiveness possible without God?

[RichardY]

Is Forgiveness possible without God? I argue, that it is not. At a metaphysical level, which is ironclad. As how can someone take back, that is to Fore-Give, given we are bound by time presumably, and God or the Gods are not.

Quote

Maximus: Fratres!
[Cavalry addresses Maximus]
Maximus: Three weeks from now, I will be harvesting my crops. Imagine where you will be, and it will be so. Hold the line! Stay with me! If you find yourself alone, riding in the green fields with the sun on your face, do not be troubled. For you are in Elysium, and you're already dead!
[Cavalry laughs]
Maximus: Brothers, what we do in life... echoes in eternity.

.......

Quote

And if a friend does you wrong, then say: "I forgive you what you have done to me; that you have done it to YOURSELF, however--how could I forgive that!” Thus Spoke Zarathustra

In this context, forgive; is rather to change or bring to light ones values.

Quote

“To those human beings who are of any concern to me I wish suffering, desolation, sickness, ill-treatment, indignities—I wish that they should not remain unfamiliar with profound self-contempt, the torture of self-mistrust, the wretchedness of the vanquished: I have no pity for them, because I wish them the only thing that can prove today whether one is worth anything or not—that one endures.” Will to Power

.........

Instead of forgive all a person can do is pardon, make restitution(if possible) or correct their mistake(s). I pardon you.  (couldn't resist). In short only God can forgive except he's outside of time, not subject to empricism. Therefore the use of forgive is incorrect/non-defined terminology. (though not necessarily, non-actual) "to err is human, to forgive divine."

Was inspired by reading a blog posts and watching video by voxday, who said that forgiveness is impossible without God. Thought it was funny he refered to Jordan Peterson as a "Whack Job!" & non-Christian societies "Murderfests". Makes me think of the Fat Tony quote from The Simpsons. "It's funny cause it's true."

Personally think it's a fairly important topic given current events and self knowledge, though maybe more interested in the entertainment value. "Are you not entertained???"

How do you like your Truth? Raw. (as possible)

[Jsbrads]

Watch Prager U video on forgiveness.

Different kinds of forgiveness, while may want try any without God, you can do anything without believing in God. 

[barn]

1. *Forgiveness is not equal to forgetting.

2. It's

a.  You are not happy with what had happened but you are ok with how it was dealt with (restitution, subjective measure) and don't want it to happen again. (assurances created, in place)

b.  in certain circumstances you are glad it happened to a certain degree, as it enabled a form of learning/understanding. AND you don't want it to happen again, will be remembered (and compared to the set of assurances).

c.  since, some of those things that are done in form of an honest mistake/accident are fundamentally different from those that were done onto us with us being considered in the equation:

It's essential to establish whether we could have been replaced (non personal, we were just 'conveniently close') or if the situation was designed, pre-meditated, tailored for us(aggression).

3.  Without clarity of ALL the above (+caveat) , there's no forgiveness possible. Repetition assured.

p.s. caveat (Is it possible to forgive to a certain degree? - Sure, it is. Just as telling the truth to a certain degree.)

[Carl Killough]

How much of yourself have you externalized?  

I have a friend that has externalized himself so much that he sees himself in 3rd person memories all the time.  He said it was like looking down at himself from a security camera.  

(I think he had a very traumatic childhood...)   He's also wicked smart.

Oddly enough, it would still be himself that he would ask forgiveness from....wait, no, that's not odd.  If he can see himself as a different person, then of course he would ask himself.  

Maybe it's those of us who have not...managed?...decided to? ...been fortunate enough not to have to.... I really am not sure of the right word to use here... externalize ourselves at all that need outside forgiveness, especially from a source we typically view as being an all powerful father.  

[mgggb]

On 5/6/2018 at 9:55 PM, RichardY said:

Is Forgiveness possible without God?

I sure hope it is. There is no such thing as a God so if it is not possible for forgiveness without one, then forgiveness isn't possible.

[Jsbrads]

Carl, while your friend may never do anything to hurt you or others, from what I understand, that is a dissociative disorder. Your friend sounds like an extreme case, and people with dissociative disorders are very dangerous. Some people with this disorder do not take responsibility for their actions. This is different from sociopath and psychopath, tho It is possible for someone to have more than one problem, ie dissociative sociopath may go together.

[szymonmol]

In most discussions its important to agree on definition of words use Forgiveness is different from reconciliation. To often argument about about forgiveness is really about reconciliation