Tommy Robinson jailed in the UK.

[J.L.W]

Rest of my message got stuck.

Stefan has a new video! Wooo!

[jgw2001]

Court order banning media coverage:

 

Also, the 18 months suspended sentence from last year:

 www DOT dailymail DOT co DOT uk/wires/pa/article-4545794/Ex-EDL-leader-Tommy-Robinson-spared-jail-contempt-court.html

[Kohlrak]

3 hours ago, jgw2001 said:

It is up to the courts, but what is important is to allow for a fair trial
.
As soon as someone is charged, you won't hear about the case (or most cases) in the media until the verdict.

Tommy was warned, and ignored the warning and knew exactly what he was doing.

There was a recent fallout between the UK and the US last year, during the Manchester bombing case when Donald Trump (or someone in the white house) revealed the names of the individual charged. The UK government for several weeks restricted the US access to the UK security/police database.

What is important is when a trial occurs that it is fair as possible.

Tommy, I am sure will also get a fair trial, if he gets a Jury trial.

 

So, presumably, since this is UK law, only UK news agencies would be obligated to follow it, right?

[J.L.W]

I can't take this.

For years everyone I have tried to talk to about political matters has just been flatly non interested. I have tried to form right wing groups.

Sitting here doing music and music is the great uniter. Perhaps I can bring people together with it. Perhaps I can sit with a group around a camp fire and say 'this is a song I wrote about x' and start a conversation. But that although possible, is just a little farfetched.

I suppose it is what I can do.

We are actually going down a totalitarian route. It is actually happening. All the beliefs of political change coming are starting to seem like wishful thinking!

In relation to this jokers claims. You just need to listen to Stefans video. Honestly it would seem stupid to summarise the evidence.

I changed my mind:

Tommy being arrested without due process, I.e. his own lawyer, or bail. A point you did not respond to. Is clearly shown to be totalitarian, regardless of if the law says that is legitimate. And being arrested and sent to jail so incredibly quickly shows they were just trying to disappear him.

Regardless of your condemnatory intellectually obtuse arguments.

The police have to release Imams because Muslims riot. Rapists get a proper trial with legal representation etc.

 

[J.L.W]

I'll continue here because I never know what combination of words will get me 'stuck'.

The point on the supposed mentioning of the names of the people convicted... Declared guilty is not legitimate since he was reading out the names of people already published by the media. So this looks like a point you just made up.

[J.L.W]

 

[Kohlrak]

6 hours ago, J.L.W said:

I can't take this.

For years everyone I have tried to talk to about political matters has just been flatly non interested. I have tried to form right wing groups.

Sitting here doing music and music is the great uniter. Perhaps I can bring people together with it. Perhaps I can sit with a group around a camp fire and say 'this is a song I wrote about x' and start a conversation. But that although possible, is just a little farfetched.

I suppose it is what I can do.

We are actually going down a totalitarian route. It is actually happening. All the beliefs of political change coming are starting to seem like wishful thinking!

In relation to this jokers claims. You just need to listen to Stefans video. Honestly it would seem stupid to summarise the evidence.

I changed my mind:

Tommy being arrested without due process, I.e. his own lawyer, or bail. A point you did not respond to. Is clearly shown to be totalitarian, regardless of if the law says that is legitimate. And being arrested and sent to jail so incredibly quickly shows they were just trying to disappear him.

Regardless of your condemnatory intellectually obtuse arguments.

The police have to release Imams because Muslims riot. Rapists get a proper trial with legal representation etc.

 

I know the feeling. People are so damn indifferent, 'cause it's not personal. I was just telling my girlfriend last night how my family used to own castles in either Britain or Ireland, and we confirmed this through some geneology. That was cool, but now the land of my ancestors can jail a man for doing his job, all because he's not of the right opinion. She couldn't put down her youtube via iPhone to give me her opinion on the matter. It's kind of like caring about trends or anything like that is "my thing" just like a food preference. When i made points over skype all i got was "wow," then a few points later "damn," and then "wow." It's getting to the point i feel like just joining "the dark side."

I'm religious. I believe in God, i believe that Jesus was a representative to man from the Creator, but here I am watching myself being a target for atheists. I believe that I should do the right thing, for the ideals of that man we call Jesus, since I believe he had the wisdom of the Creator with him. Yet i look around, at all the happiness that Hedonism brings, and the blindness that leads to the bliss of ignorance. I look at the companies around here, and I see how hard it is to get a stable job without dealing with the devil over debt so i can have the credentials. Meanwhile, i look at Tommy Robinson, who's fighting to protect children, like the ones i wish to have some day, and he's being destroyed and defeated by "the powers that be," and I know realistically that the protests won't last, they won't change a damn thing, and people will be "disappeared" for having "the wrong opinion." I watch as i see on other forums, that people don't care about the fact that this could be turned on them, as well, saying it's OK, despite legal and ethical violations, because he's a racist, even if he isn't.

So any man who tries to be good is either forced to cease to exist for having the wrong opinion of standing up for the oppressed, is jobless for he refuses to lie about his experience, goes uneducated for he feels it is wrong to buy something he cannot afford, is ignored for caring, and just generally is ineffectual for these reasons. I'm sure i could find more reasons to be upset, and I understand that switching teams isn't very useful either. So, here I am, a Christian, wondering if, just as religion may be the wisdom of our ancestors, instead of a God, if hidden occult knowledge and demon worship is the knowledge of civilizations that failed or are being revived, thus the secret to not being on the team of liars, cheaters, hedonists, etc, while simultaneously being effective, is in some form of mind games or trickery. I sure as hell can't join the other team, but i don't seem to be able to stay on this team, either, 'cause we're getting annihilated. Nihilism isn't the way, clearly, so what can we do? We can't escape. Meanwhile, those around us, our loved ones, make it harder to run away, for we know they'll be left behind.

An anger grows in me, almost hoping that the worst happens, just so I can watch everyone else crumble around me. Almost hoping that every evil i've predicted and warned others of would come true. Almost hoping that gays would be burned at the stake, that those in debt would be made slaves for long hours with little to sustain them until they dropped dead of starvation, that those who lie would live in fear of their lies being exposed resulting in their execution, that these secular progressives be forced to worship a god of hate, that the apathetic women and their feminist counterparts would be raped. A small part of me wishes for this level of evil, so that at least justice, since nothing else, would prevail, and there would be at least one good thing allowed to thrive in this world.

I don't like these dark thoughts, but the sickly good news is, it's probably going to turn out that way if things continue as they are. The price of freedom is eternal vigilance, and we don't see it as important enough to pay that small price, so if the innocent and those willing to pay the price must suffer, then let the immoral suffer as well. Don't even let them commit suicide to get out of it: they should've did it before ruining it for everyone else.

EDIT: Another point, let it be that should this go down, that we never have a liberator. It's not fair to liberators and would be heros to bail apathetic people out so that their sacrifice goes in vain, like all the freedom fighters of old.

Edited May 28, 2018 by Kohlrak
Another point

[jgw2001]

Just want to repeat the facts that we already know:

1) Tommy was convicted last year (of the same charge) got three months and 18 months suspended sentence. Please understand what a suspended sentence is.
2) WITH IN 12 months, he videos and reveals the names of the accused including the name of the those who are currently on trail.
3) He was charged with contempt of court, breaching his bail conditions and because of the current suspended sentence was sent to prison for 13 months.
4) Reporting restrictions currently still apply, as a number of individuals are still currently on trail indirectly related to the case.

Information on reporting restrictions:
https://www.judiciary.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/reporting-restrictions-guide-may-2016-2.pdf

Reporting restrictions also exist in other western countries for court cases including Canada:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Publication_ban

While some may be against these reporting restrictions, then maybe we should discuss the recent cases of individuals being declared by the media circle as paedophiles, after going to court getting a not guilty verdict. They have lost their kids, family, house and job. Some trails have fallen apart due to indirect influence on the Jury by the media, hence the reason depending on the case reporting restrictions may be required.

In the United States, while reporting restrictions do not apply, I have read cases how they have to keep the Jury away from the TV, newspapers and kept insulated in a hotel while the trail takes place.  

Like or hate what Tommy had done, his indirect actions could have resulted in cases collapsing and potential paedophiles being set free, he knew exactly what he was doing. The accused involved in the case could be let off under the UK human rights act article 6:

----

Article 6 Right to a fair trial

1I n the determination of his civil rights and obligations or of any criminal charge against him, everyone is entitled to a fair and public hearing within a reasonable time by an independent and impartial tribunal established by law. Judgment shall be pronounced publicly but the press and public may be excluded from all or part of the trial in the interest of morals, public order or national security in a democratic society, where the interests of juveniles or the protection of the private life of the parties so require, or to the extent strictly necessary in the opinion of the court in special circumstances where publicity would prejudice the interests of justice.

2Everyone charged with a criminal offence shall be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law.

3Everyone charged with a criminal offence has the following minimum rights:

(a)to be informed promptly, in a language which he understands and in detail, of the nature and cause of the accusation against him;

(b)to have adequate time and facilities for the preparation of his defence;

(c)to defend himself in person or through legal assistance of his own choosing or, if he has not sufficient means to pay for legal assistance, to be given it free when the interests of justice so require;

(d)to examine or have examined witnesses against him and to obtain the attendance and examination of witnesses on his behalf under the same conditions as witnesses against him;

(e)to have the free assistance of an interpreter if he cannot understand or speak the language used in court.

----






 

[barn]

Hi @jgw2001

I think it is, visibly that is, appreciable how you source many things and I'm sorry if my following question comes of 'uneducated' or 'uninformed' during a selective media-blackout.

Is it fair to say that what Tommy Robinson has said on his video recording or what could be heard around him was information fully in the possession of the public (anyone else could have gathered the same) at the time and around his incarceration?

Edited May 28, 2018 by barn
i.e. - Huddersfield Examiner newspaper and online outlet

[Kohlrak]

1 hour ago, jgw2001 said:

Just want to repeat the facts that we already know:

1) Tommy was convicted last year (of the same charge) got three months and 18 months suspended sentence. Please understand what a suspended sentence is.
2) WITH IN 12 months, he videos and reveals the names of the accused including the name of the those who are currently on trail.
3) He was charged with contempt of court, breaching his bail conditions and because of the current suspended sentence was sent to prison for 13 months.
4) Reporting restrictions currently still apply, as a number of individuals are still currently on trail indirectly related to the case.

Information on reporting restrictions:
https://www.judiciary.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/reporting-restrictions-guide-may-2016-2.pdf

Reporting restrictions also exist in other western countries for court cases including Canada:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Publication_ban

While some may be against these reporting restrictions, then maybe we should discuss the recent cases of individuals being declared by the media circle as paedophiles, after going to court getting a not guilty verdict. They have lost their kids, family, house and job. Some trails have fallen apart due to indirect influence on the Jury by the media, hence the reason depending on the case reporting restrictions may be required.

In the United States, while reporting restrictions do not apply, I have read cases how they have to keep the Jury away from the TV, newspapers and kept insulated in a hotel while the trail takes place.  

Like or hate what Tommy had done, his indirect actions could have resulted in cases collapsing and potential paedophiles being set free, he knew exactly what he was doing. The accused involved in the case could be let off under the UK human rights act article 6:

----

Article 6 Right to a fair trial

1I n the determination of his civil rights and obligations or of any criminal charge against him, everyone is entitled to a fair and public hearing within a reasonable time by an independent and impartial tribunal established by law. Judgment shall be pronounced publicly but the press and public may be excluded from all or part of the trial in the interest of morals, public order or national security in a democratic society, where the interests of juveniles or the protection of the private life of the parties so require, or to the extent strictly necessary in the opinion of the court in special circumstances where publicity would prejudice the interests of justice.

2Everyone charged with a criminal offence shall be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law.

3Everyone charged with a criminal offence has the following minimum rights:

(a)to be informed promptly, in a language which he understands and in detail, of the nature and cause of the accusation against him;

(b)to have adequate time and facilities for the preparation of his defence;

(c)to defend himself in person or through legal assistance of his own choosing or, if he has not sufficient means to pay for legal assistance, to be given it free when the interests of justice so require;

(d)to examine or have examined witnesses against him and to obtain the attendance and examination of witnesses on his behalf under the same conditions as witnesses against him;

(e)to have the free assistance of an interpreter if he cannot understand or speak the language used in court.

----






 

I'll ask a question that i asked another UK citizen on this topic elsewhere: if a couple rent an apartment on the first floor of an apartment building, and there are children in the other apartments (we'll say they're 10-12 years old). The couple decides to commit to their hanky-panky, but they leave the windows open to help keep it cool in the apartment while this is going on (maybe also because they enjoy voyeurs, or something, we don't know). The children go outside to play, and they see what it is their neighbors do with the window uncovered. They, being immature, decide to use their cellphones to record videos and upload it to facebook, where the couple then finds the videos and protests.

What is the couple charged with, if anything? What are the children charged with, if anything? What are the parents of the children charged with, if anything?

I could tell you what they would be charged with in america, but that's irrelevant. What's important is how UK law treats citizens, as well as information they would like to protect. Is it the responsibility of people to avert their eyes of something in plain view, or is it the responsibility of the party wishing to hold secrets to take reasonable steps to protect their secrets?

[neeeel]

3 minutes ago, Kohlrak said:

I'll ask a question that i asked another UK citizen on this topic elsewhere: if a couple rent an apartment on the first floor of an apartment building, and there are children in the other apartments (we'll say they're 10-12 years old). The couple decides to commit to their hanky-panky, but they leave the windows open to help keep it cool in the apartment while this is going on (maybe also because they enjoy voyeurs, or something, we don't know). The children go outside to play, and they see what it is their neighbors do with the window uncovered. They, being immature, decide to use their cellphones to record videos and upload it to facebook, where the couple then finds the videos and protests.

What is the couple charged with, if anything? What are the children charged with, if anything? What are the parents of the children charged with, if anything?

I could tell you what they would be charged with in america, but that's irrelevant. What's important is how UK law treats citizens, as well as information they would like to protect. Is it the responsibility of people to avert their eyes of something in plain view, or is it the responsibility of the party wishing to hold secrets to take reasonable steps to protect their secrets?

This is irrelevant as to whether there is a law in the UK that is (purportedly) to protect people who are on trial, and whether Tommy Robinson broke that law. You might disagree with the law, but thats a different matter.

[Kohlrak]

5 minutes ago, neeeel said:

This is irrelevant as to whether there is a law in the UK that is (purportedly) to protect people who are on trial, and whether Tommy Robinson broke that law. You might disagree with the law, but thats a different matter.

Depends on how that law's written, if it's vague enough, and there's a legal precedent like the one i stated above,

[RichardY]

This is the problem I have with Libertarians and their "sacred" NAP. A is A and BS technicalities. I'll take the high and morally superior road!!!! And the nasty state and the individuals that influence it, are just going to "see sense".

Pretty obvious that many Libertarians are complicit, with the state of affairs as it stands. To anyone who is not blind and  can see the evidence, for historical child rape over decades. And what do they choose to focus on, virtually one out of a very small number of guys who actually reported on it, disgusting. Decades...Decades... oh and the tral could collapse so let's blame it on the guy actually bringing it to light in the first place. Play on the guilt and call him a fraudster, when it's obvious they were looking for whatever dirt they could get him on. Organ harvesters are morally superior.

 

[J.L.W]

I've always had trouble with NAP, the reason being is that when things really hit the fan, and in the secret behind the scenes world I perceive, such as linked to intelligence activities. Incredible violence happens. People are tortured and killed as part of these things and there would often be no other way of handling it. 

I do like when Stefan explains things as 'what is the thing morally wrong in this statement is the violation of the non aggression principle' and it does make sense when he says that.

There are other arguments I won't go into.

I do think Tommy has tried hard to reinvent himself as a non violent person and that there may still be a legal or political route to deal with this stuff. But... there has been so much vote rigging in England. I don't know who it was who 'behind the scenes' had the UK's back in the EU referendum but Nigel Farage's attempts at becoming an MP were definitely rigged, as was the Scottish referendum, and I suspect basically every vote that England has ever had.

The woman that runs 'For Britain' has a by election on June 14th. If they rig her out of it then I hope there is enough fury on behalf of the populace to make the establishment face that.

23 minutes ago, RichardY said:

This is the problem I have with Libertarians and their "sacred" NAP. A is A and BS technicalities. I'll take the high and morally superior road!!!! And the nasty state and the individuals that influence it, are just going to "see sense".

Pretty obvious that many Libertarians are complicit, with the state of affairs as it stands. To anyone who is not blind and  can see the evidence, for historical child rape over decades. And what do they choose to focus on, virtually one out of a very small number of guys who actually reported on it, disgusting. Decades...Decades... oh and the tral could collapse so let's blame it on the guy actually bringing it to light in the first place. Play on the guilt and call him a fraudster, when it's obvious they were looking for whatever dirt they could get him on. Organ harvesters are morally superior.

 

 

[Kohlrak]

50 minutes ago, RichardY said:

This is the problem I have with Libertarians and their "sacred" NAP. A is A and BS technicalities. I'll take the high and morally superior road!!!! And the nasty state and the individuals that influence it, are just going to "see sense". 

A page taken out of Jesus' works: if they won't listen to the high road and change their lives when they see it's better for them, they won't change at all.

That said, even though i'm Christian, i really, really want revenge, as of late. I'm watching these disgusting tactics working, and i'm generating apathy for the welfare and wellbeing of the apathetic crowd.

50 minutes ago, RichardY said:

Pretty obvious that many Libertarians are complicit, with the state of affairs as it stands. To anyone who is not blind and  can see the evidence, for historical child rape over decades. And what do they choose to focus on, virtually one out of a very small number of guys who actually reported on it, disgusting. Decades...Decades... oh and the tral could collapse so let's blame it on the guy actually bringing it to light in the first place. Play on the guilt and call him a fraudster, when it's obvious they were looking for whatever dirt they could get him on. Organ harvesters are morally superior

Not too different from Simon the Boxer. Gotta maintain that illusion. This is clearly mental illness. The population at large, yes the majority of people, are mentally ill. On the flip side, it's not our job to fix it. If only there was a yet to be discovered land out there, a new world where the intelligent people could go, and separate ourselves from the rest, and learn our lesson this time and not allow immigration.

14 minutes ago, J.L.W said:

I've always had trouble with NAP, the reason being is that when things really hit the fan, and in the secret behind the scenes world I perceive, such as linked to intelligence activities. Incredible violence happens. People are tortured and killed as part of these things and there would often be no other way of handling it. 

This is why freedom of speech is important. Amazing how the government feels it should spy on our citizens, saying we should have nothing to hide if we're innocent, yet we can't apply the same rules to them. But, try convincing anyone of this. Even if you do, they still won't care. Even if they cared, they still won't act to even the degree of opening their mouths to others.

14 minutes ago, J.L.W said:

I do think Tommy has tried hard to reinvent himself as a non violent person and that there may still be a legal or political route to deal with this stuff. But... there has been so much vote rigging in England. I don't know who it was who 'behind the scenes' had the UK's back in the EU referendum but Nigel Farage's attempts at becoming an MP were definitely rigged, as was the Scottish referendum, and I suspect basically every vote that England has ever had. 

Ever notice the left always holds the right accountable for what the left does, even if the right doesn't do it? Oh, hey, look, Russia hacked the US elections! It's not like we haven't seen voter-machine fraud in the US before this election, with machines preferring the left candidates.

14 minutes ago, J.L.W said:

The woman that runs 'For Britain' has a by election on June 14th. If they rig her out of it then I hope there is enough fury on behalf of the populace to make the establishment face that.

Sooner to expect unicorns than the general public to care about what they've avoided caring about so far. I think the big mistake we keep making on the right is assuming the public will be angry enough. Remember, this stuff came from the Frankfurt School, which was facing the same problem with the populace being apathetic. That's why they started this victim culture: it was the only way to get people really outraged, and even the grand majority are still apathetic, even with this victim culture being beat into our heads since childhood. I think this is the real lesson of our time, not that communism kills, but humans are apathetic, refusing to rule themselves, thus it is always a small minority that sacrifices themselves for the benefit of others who have no problem just letting others take their gifts from them, for they do not understand nor appreciate their gifts. The price of freedom is eternal vigilance, but the vigilant die securing it.

[J.L.W]

I can't describe the pain I felt when Tommy went to prison. I think when he went to prison as well a million people or more, who had had relatives somehow involved in that trafficking would have cried out in pain.

I think it is possible that the anger could rise to physical behaviour because of this. If not then we truly are in a 1930's Germany situation.

27 minutes ago, Kohlrak said:

This is why freedom of speech is important. Amazing how the government feels it should spy on our citizens, saying we should have nothing to hide if we're innocent, yet we can't apply the same rules to them. But, try convincing anyone of this. Even if you do, they still won't care. Even if they cared, they still won't act to even the degree of opening their mouths to others.

 

 

[Kohlrak]

15 minutes ago, J.L.W said:

I can't describe the pain I felt when Tommy went to prison. I think when he went to prison as well a million people or more, who had had relatives somehow involved in that trafficking would have cried out in pain.

I think it is possible that the anger could rise to physical behaviour because of this. If not then we truly are in a 1930's Germany situation.

 

 

I hope you're right. Even if it devolved into violence, i would regain my faith in the British people who were my ancestors. However, my recent watching of a good documentary on the Frankfurt School of thought has me realizing what is really going on. A quick summary: basically, marxists believed that World War I and World War II would ultimately cause the people of Europe to revolt against their governments and allow them to establish the fuzzy, feel-good system of communism. Well, thanks to capitalism, it didn't happen, because people were happy and content with their plight, because capitalism at least made things bearable. After escaping Germany while trying to take the country from Hitler during his rise to power, they came to the United States, hoping to make the changes here that they failed to pull off in Germany (their arch-nemesis being the nazi party, which is why we conservatives are somehow socialists in their eyes [it's a dog whistle, of sorts, a holdover from their origins]). Knowing that the US' biggest hot-button issues were both Slavery and Segregation, they realized that victim culture was actually enough to motivate people. So, they focused on impressionable children, so that they would internalize the victimhood. This is why in stefan's most recent video about a thought, he was unable to understand why everyone around him was so cynical and questioned everything: because the Frankfurt School is focused on theories about bringing uprising and change, at any cost. He doesn't know this history, which is why he's oblivious to it.

The real kicker is, the more i see them in action, the more i like them. They're solving the apathy problem that we're tripping over. We see them getting all bothered by every little thing, and we can't motivate people to care about their neighbor's child getting viciously raped.

[RichardY]

I'm reminded of one of the first passages of Beyond Good & Evil.

Replace Stoics; With "Libertarians".
Replace "Nature"; With The "NAP". 

In all how are the modern day Libertarians, necessarily any different from the Stoics? The concept of Libertarian only exists, because there is the concept of the state. Without the state, what are they. Nothing.

Quote

You desire to LIVE "according to Nature"? Oh, you noble Stoics, what fraud of words! Imagine to yourselves a being like Nature, boundlessly extravagant, boundlessly indifferent, without purpose or consideration, without pity or justice, at once fruitful and barren and uncertain: imagine to yourselves INDIFFERENCE as a power—how COULD you live in accordance with such indifference? To live—is not that just endeavouring to be otherwise than this Nature? Is not living valuing, preferring, being unjust, being limited, endeavouring to be different? And granted that your imperative, "living according to Nature," means actually the same as "living according to life"—how could you do DIFFERENTLY? Why should you make a principle out of what you yourselves are, and must be? In reality, however, it is quite otherwise with you: while you pretend to read with rapture the canon of your law in Nature, you want something quite the contrary, you extraordinary stage-players and self-deluders! In your pride you wish to dictate your morals and ideals to Nature, to Nature herself, and to incorporate them therein; you insist that it shall be Nature "according to the Stoa," and would like everything to be made after your own image, as a vast, eternal glorification and generalism of Stoicism! With all your love for truth, you have forced yourselves so long, so persistently, and with such hypnotic rigidity to see Nature FALSELY, that is to say, Stoically, that you are no longer able to see it otherwise—and to crown all, some unfathomable superciliousness gives you the Bedlamite hope that BECAUSE you are able to tyrannize over yourselves—Stoicism is self-tyranny—Nature will also allow herself to be tyrannized over: is not the Stoic a PART of Nature?... But this is an old and everlasting story: what happened in old times with the Stoics still happens today, as soon as ever a philosophy begins to believe in itself. It always creates the world in its own image; it cannot do otherwise; philosophy is this tyrannical impulse itself, the most spiritual Will to Power, the will to "creation of the world," the will to the causa prima.”

 

2 hours ago, J.L.W said:

I do think Tommy has tried hard to reinvent himself as a non violent person and that there may still be a legal or political route to deal with this stuff. But... there has been so much vote rigging in England. I don't know who it was who 'behind the scenes' had the UK's back in the EU referendum but Nigel Farage's attempts at becoming an MP were definitely rigged, as was the Scottish referendum, and I suspect basically every vote that England has ever had.

The woman that runs 'For Britain' has a by election on June 14th. If they rig her out of it then I hope there is enough fury on behalf of the populace to make the establishment face that.

 

What has the guy done that is violent?

All the "Far Right" parties say they're pro democracy.  But I'm sure nothing short of a military takeover at this point, is going to make any difference. Maybe if there was a crash of the economy venuzula style and the cities went berserk, no idea ,speculating.

2 hours ago, Kohlrak said:

Not too different from Simon the Boxer. Gotta maintain that illusion. This is clearly mental illness. The population at large, yes the majority of people, are mentally ill. On the flip side, it's not our job to fix it. If only there was a yet to be discovered land out there, a new world where the intelligent people could go, and separate ourselves from the rest, and learn our lesson this time and not allow immigration.

Thinking more along the lines of the movie "Falling Down" with Michael Douglas as "D-Fens". There's a scene on youtube "not economically viable" where a guy protesting outside a bank gets arrested and says "don't forget me" to D-Fens. Or like the fastfood burger scene. D-Fens: "I don't want to be your buddy rick ("virtuous"), I just want my breakfast.". Rick: "Well hey, I'm really sorry." D-Fens "Well I'm really sorry too" (Pulls out a machine gun).

 

[Kohlrak]

3 minutes ago, RichardY said:

All the "Far Right" parties say they're pro democracy.  But I'm sure nothing short of a military takeover at this point, is going to make any difference. Maybe if there was a crash of the economy venuzula style and the cities went berserk, no idea ,speculating.

That's what our opposition wants. They are dedicated to chaos.

4 minutes ago, RichardY said:

Thinking more along the lines of the movie "Falling Down" with Michael Douglas as "D-Fens". There's a scene on youtube "not economically viable" where a guy protesting outside a bank gets arrested and says "don't forget me" to D-Fens. Or like the fastfood burger scene. D-Fens: "I don't want to be your buddy rick ("virtuous"), I just want my breakfast.". Rick: "Well hey, I'm really sorry." D-Fens "Well I'm really sorry too" (Pulls out a machine gun).

What is this movie?

[Kohlrak]

I hate to double post, and i have to choose my words carefully, but I want to point out i have 2 or 3 in the queue.

[DuaDuit1488]

On ‎5‎/‎27‎/‎2018 at 6:53 PM, J.L.W said:

I can't take this.

For years everyone I have tried to talk to about political matters has just been flatly non interested. I have tried to form right wing groups.

Sitting here doing music and music is the great uniter. Perhaps I can bring people together with it. Perhaps I can sit with a group around a camp fire and say 'this is a song I wrote about x' and start a conversation. But that although possible, is just a little farfetched.

I suppose it is what I can do.

We are actually going down a totalitarian route. It is actually happening. All the beliefs of political change coming are starting to seem like wishful thinking!

In relation to this jokers claims. You just need to listen to Stefans video. Honestly it would seem stupid to summarise the evidence.

I changed my mind:

Tommy being arrested without due process, I.e. his own lawyer, or bail. A point you did not respond to. Is clearly shown to be totalitarian, regardless of if the law says that is legitimate. And being arrested and sent to jail so incredibly quickly shows they were just trying to disappear him.

Regardless of your condemnatory intellectually obtuse arguments.

The police have to release Imams because Muslims riot. Rapists get a proper trial with legal representation etc.

 

I would like to talk about politics. I think this is all a big distraction. Its fueling hate on both sides, its obvious to me that violence is literally the only answer. I am willing to have my mind changed, I'm open to all possibilities. 

[DuaDuit1488]

On ‎5‎/‎27‎/‎2018 at 6:53 PM, J.L.W said:

I can't take this.

For years everyone I have tried to talk to about political matters has just been flatly non interested. I have tried to form right wing groups.

Sitting here doing music and music is the great uniter. Perhaps I can bring people together with it. Perhaps I can sit with a group around a camp fire and say 'this is a song I wrote about x' and start a conversation. But that although possible, is just a little farfetched.

I suppose it is what I can do.

We are actually going down a totalitarian route. It is actually happening. All the beliefs of political change coming are starting to seem like wishful thinking!

In relation to this jokers claims. You just need to listen to Stefans video. Honestly it would seem stupid to summarise the evidence.

I changed my mind:

Tommy being arrested without due process, I.e. his own lawyer, or bail. A point you did not respond to. Is clearly shown to be totalitarian, regardless of if the law says that is legitimate. And being arrested and sent to jail so incredibly quickly shows they were just trying to disappear him.

Regardless of your condemnatory intellectually obtuse arguments.

The police have to release Imams because Muslims riot. Rapists get a proper trial with legal representation etc.

 

I would like to talk about politics. I think this is all a big distraction. Its fueling hate on both sides, its obvious to me that violence is literally the only answer. I am willing to have my mind changed, I'm open to all possibilities. 

[DuaDuit1488]

On ‎5‎/‎27‎/‎2018 at 6:53 PM, J.L.W said:

I can't take this.

For years everyone I have tried to talk to about political matters has just been flatly non interested. I have tried to form right wing groups.

Sitting here doing music and music is the great uniter. Perhaps I can bring people together with it. Perhaps I can sit with a group around a camp fire and say 'this is a song I wrote about x' and start a conversation. But that although possible, is just a little farfetched.

I suppose it is what I can do.

We are actually going down a totalitarian route. It is actually happening. All the beliefs of political change coming are starting to seem like wishful thinking!

In relation to this jokers claims. You just need to listen to Stefans video. Honestly it would seem stupid to summarise the evidence.

I changed my mind:

Tommy being arrested without due process, I.e. his own lawyer, or bail. A point you did not respond to. Is clearly shown to be totalitarian, regardless of if the law says that is legitimate. And being arrested and sent to jail so incredibly quickly shows they were just trying to disappear him.

Regardless of your condemnatory intellectually obtuse arguments.

The police have to release Imams because Muslims riot. Rapists get a proper trial with legal representation etc.

 

I would like to talk about politics. I think this is all a big distraction. Its fueling hate on both sides, its obvious to me that violence is literally the only answer. I am willing to have my mind changed, I'm open to all possibilities. 

[Kohlrak]

1 minute ago, DuaDuit1488 said:

I would like to talk about politics. I think this is all a big distraction. Its fueling hate on both sides, its obvious to me that violence is literally the only answer. I am willing to have my mind changed, I'm open to all possibilities. 

This is precisely how i feel about this. I understand my thinking is reactionary, but this isn't getting better as the time is going on. I'm calming down, but my conclusions remain the same. This is not normal for me.

[DuaDuit1488]

Its interesting you describe that. I am an independent and my conclusions always change, I have no limits to what is possible and right now I feel like I have an advantage over the controlled opposition. Recently I have changed my mind about White Genocide, and it was just a change of heart by gods grace NO NEW INFO THAT DID IT.   

 

strange 

[RichardY]

44 minutes ago, Kohlrak said:

I hate to double post, and i have to choose my words carefully, but I want to point out i have 2 or 3 in the queue.

Yeah "Big Brother" is watching you. Would like to post whatever, try to balence out my thoughts. But I understand that FDR has got to cover their backs, could pull the forum all together. Have 1 post pending, but as I state in the pending post this stuff has been on my mind recently only to have it strengthened.

[Kohlrak]

34 minutes ago, DuaDuit1488 said:

Its interesting you describe that. I am an independent and my conclusions always change, I have no limits to what is possible and right now I feel like I have an advantage over the controlled opposition. Recently I have changed my mind about White Genocide, and it was just a change of heart by gods grace NO NEW INFO THAT DID IT.   

 

strange 

Could you elaborate on this "white genocide"?

6 minutes ago, RichardY said:

Yeah "Big Brother" is watching you. Would like to post whatever, try to balence out my thoughts. But I understand that FDR has got to cover their backs, could pull the forum all together. Have 1 post pending, but as I state in the pending post this stuff has been on my mind recently only to have it strengthened.

The violence, or big brother watching us?

[RichardY]

2 minutes ago, Kohlrak said:

The violence, or big brother watching us?

Big Brother. Can't really be violent with words as you can always choose not to associate in an ideal world or with enough consciousness. Can be aggressive with words but not violent. Unless, you betray someones trust at the same time. Here drink this lemonade (not lemonade).

[Kohlrak]

1 minute ago, RichardY said:

Big Brother. Can't really be violent with words as you can always choose not to associate in an ideal world or with enough consciousness. Can be aggressive with words but not violent. Unless, you betray someones trust at the same time. Here drink this lemonade (not lemonade).

The question of when words become equivalent to violence seems to be the forefront of the political justification of violence, lately. I think, maybe, the discussion is worth having. We can't say words have no violence attributed to them, yet turn around and say that taxation is the violent mugging of people by the government until the guns themselves show up.

[J.L.W]

We can de facto assume Britains finest is aware of this thread. However, they have a lot of other people to watch. There are far more active groups such as those that have already previously committed violence against these gangs, and all sorts of capable and other more professional people who are rebelling against this. I'm sure I have a LONG way to go before I would be receiving a visit or interference from them.

You have to be a proper threat either with money or organising influence. But if I did have any of those things I'm sure I have a file that stretches back through the mid 2000's of passively gathered intel.

Another quote from 1984: the only thing that is truly efficient in Oceania is the thought police.

11 minutes ago, RichardY said:

Yeah "Big Brother" is watching you. Would like to post whatever, try to balence out my thoughts. But I understand that FDR has got to cover their backs, could pull the forum all together. Have 1 post pending, but as I state in the pending post this stuff has been on my mind recently only to have it strengthened.

If this is the only thing you have to say I'm going to assume you are an agitator. I suggest no one mentions violence here, except perhaps as a relation to philosophy.

51 minutes ago, DuaDuit1488 said:

I would like to talk about politics. I think this is all a big distraction. Its fueling hate on both sides, its obvious to me that violence is literally the only answer. I am willing to have my mind changed, I'm open to all possibilities. 

 

[J.L.W]

He was involved with the EDL, who were prepared to physically confront at demonstrations. I'm not sure on specifics. He has also been in prison which means regardless of the truth of the label people may assume him to be violent.

1 hour ago, RichardY said:

What has the guy done that is violent?

 

[RichardY]

16 minutes ago, J.L.W said:

We can de facto assume Britains finest is aware of this thread. However, they have a lot of other people to watch. There are far more active groups such as those that have already previously committed violence against these gangs, and all sorts of capable and other more professional people who are rebelling against this. I'm sure I have a LONG way to go before I would be receiving a visit or interference from them.

You have to be a proper threat either with money or organising influence. But if I did have any of those things I'm sure I have a file that stretches back through the mid 2000's of passively gathered intel.

Another quote from 1984: the only thing that is truly efficient in Oceania is the thought police.

If this is the only thing you have to say I'm going to assume you are an agitator. I suggest no one mentions violence here, except perhaps as a relation to philosophy.

 

Groups such as?

I think, that you think they give the forum too much credit. Probably hardly even register on their radar, an insect.

Advocate for violence? I've never advocated for such a thing, with the proviso that an animal does not cede that right, in which case how can a violent act be commited. As Stefan said. Mass child rape is effectively an act of war.

An agitator, so what. 

2 minutes ago, J.L.W said:

He was involved with the EDL, who were prepared to physically confront at demonstrations. I'm not sure on specifics. He has also been in prison which means regardless of the truth of the label people may assume him to be violent.

What has HE done that is violent???????

[Kohlrak]

51 minutes ago, J.L.W said:

We can de facto assume Britains finest is aware of this thread. However, they have a lot of other people to watch. There are far more active groups such as those that have already previously committed violence against these gangs, and all sorts of capable and other more professional people who are rebelling against this. I'm sure I have a LONG way to go before I would be receiving a visit or interference from them.

You have to be a proper threat either with money or organising influence. But if I did have any of those things I'm sure I have a file that stretches back through the mid 2000's of passively gathered intel.

Another quote from 1984: the only thing that is truly efficient in Oceania is the thought police.

If this is the only thing you have to say I'm going to assume you are an agitator. I suggest no one mentions violence here, except perhaps as a relation to philosophy.

 

When we say "big brother" above, we're referring to a non-government agency. Just feel the need to clarify this.

47 minutes ago, J.L.W said:

He was involved with the EDL, who were prepared to physically confront at demonstrations. I'm not sure on specifics. He has also been in prison which means regardless of the truth of the label people may assume him to be violent.

 

Preparation doesn't mean violence. Given the actions of antifa and such, this is perfectly reasonable. That said, it's amazing the power that lingomancy has.

34 minutes ago, RichardY said:

What has HE done that is violent???????

I don't believe he's accusing Tommy of violence, so much as that it's how the people will see it as the media works it's magic.

[J.L.W]

A guy just a few miles down the road from me was thrown into jail for more than two years for having 8 anti Islam posts in 2015 on his facebook.

http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/15358854.___Bomb_a_mosque____man_jailed_for_web_race_hate/

? That is the weirdest thing to say Big Brother is the government.

[J.L.W]

From Wikipedia:

On 24 August 2010, Robinson was involved in a fight between supporters of Luton Town and Newport County in Luton, on the evening that the two clubs played at Kenilworth Road. Robinson reportedly led the group of Luton fans, and played an integral part in starting a 100-man brawl, during which he chanted "EDL till I die". Eleven months later, in July 2011, he was convicted of having used "threatening, abusive or insulting behaviour" on the night of the incident. He was given a 12-month community rehabilitation order with 150 hours' unpaid work and a three-year ban from attending football matches. He was also ordered to pay £650 in costs.^[31]

Robinson was arrested after an EDL demonstration in Tower Hamlets on 3 September 2011 for breach of bail conditions, as he had been banned from attending that demonstration. After his arrest, Robinson began a hunger strike in custody in Bedford Prison, saying that he was a "political prisoner of the state",^[32] and refused to eat what he believed was halal meat.^[33] A local paper reported Bedford Prison sources as saying that the hunger strike lasted only 24 hours.^[34]

A handful of EDL supporters protested outside the prison in support of Robinson during his incarceration; the support peaked at a turnout of 100 protesters on 10 September.^[35] Robinson was released from prison on 12 September.^[36]

On 29 September 2011, he was convicted of common assault after headbutting a fellow EDL member at a rally in Blackburn in April that year.^[37] He was given a 12-week jail term, suspended for 12 months.^[38]

Robinson said that the assault had happened because of a confrontation with a neo-Nazi who had joined the EDL's rank and file.^[39][40] Interviewed on BBC Three Counties Radio on 9 October 2013, the day after he had resigned from the EDL, Robinson said, "One of the things people condemn me for is having a criminal record; what they don't wish to say is that part of that criminal record is for confronting neo-Nazis in Blackburn at one of my demonstrations, where I was taken before the courts and charged for assault...during the last four years we've had in-house battles, physical battles to keep these elements out. Now I’ve got to the point—listeners can look on Youtube for 'RVF EDL', they'll see there's these Nazis and they're talking to me telling me they're going to kill me—and there are fifty of them with balaclavas on."^[40]

55 minutes ago, RichardY said:

What has HE done that is violent???????