Which do you prefer... wait or not to have sex

[smarterthanone]

So I just had this conversation the other day. Girl usually sleeps with guys right away, unless she really likes a guy she makes him wait. I was like, damn, I wouldn't date you if you did that to me and she seemed surprised.

Personally if I know a girl often has sex the first date, I will not call her back if she doesn't have sex the first date because either 1. She is not interested. OR 2. Its disrespectful, no matter how good the intentions and I don't like to be disrespected.

Another girl I am dating now has only been with one guy, he had proposed and she accepted and they had sex. Long story short he had and has crazy bad medical issues come up and he withdrew his proposal because he would have sucked her into lifelong caring for him, she was involved in the decision. Fast forward now, she says she regrets having sex before marriage and we are just casually dating and my first gut instinct is I wouldn't marry her if she didn't have sex after proposal but before marriage.

I just feel like if someone is good enough to break the rules for, I better also be just as good or better, ya know if I am going to commit to you forever. If not, I think the girl should hold out for someone else, because its obviously not me.

What do you guys think?

[Siegfried von Walheim]

Advice from a 20 year old virgin: if a woman puts out, don't bother. 

The woman who popped her cherry to the guy who proposed to her: Ehh... I don't know. Assuming she hasn't had sex since, she's worth considering if she's got good traits to back it up (like someone who reasons, has a moral compass, is intelligent, etc.). 

However I have a feeling we have very different tastes in women and expectations for the future. As a rule: no hymem, no diamond. The example you provided is a bit gray because she pretty much accepted marrying hm and thus it makes sense they screw--however she didn't wait till actually being married, so it hints she doesn't have good self-discipline. At least compared to the woman who actually waits till marriage...

A woman who screws around however, regardless of how often, is simply unreliable and too much baggage for what is likely very little gain in either character or utility.

[Elizbaeth]

On 5/27/2018 at 12:41 AM, smarterthanone said:

Another girl I am dating now has only been with one guy, he had proposed and she accepted and they had sex. Long story short he had and has crazy bad medical issues come up and he withdrew his proposal because he would have sucked her into lifelong caring for him, she was involved in the decision. 

I wouldn't write her off automatically. The devil is in the details: there may be more information that could shed more light on how committed she was to him or if she used the engagement as an excuse or whatnot. Just dig a little deeper. You're an obviously intelligent guy, and I don't doubt that you could figure out if her character is off or is golden. You could ask why she regrets sleeping with him, and why she did it, how she felt (emotionally, just to clarify) about the former fiance at the time and how she feels about him now. 

On 5/27/2018 at 12:41 AM, smarterthanone said:

I just feel like if someone is good enough to break the rules for, I better also be just as good or better, ya know if I am going to commit to you forever. If not, I think the girl should hold out for someone else, because its obviously not me

I think I understand how you feel, and it's not unreasonable to feel that way. It would feel like a personal slight if a girl did not do with you what she had done with someone else. However, if someone does something in the past that they regret and learn from, then, if that person values their own character and soul, they probably won't want to do the same thing again. It's not really about you. It's about that person maintaining their own sense of integrity. Maybe this will help - and it's not a perfect analogy, but oh well - if you stole something in the past, got caught, and actually regretted stealing (not just the getting caught), you wouldn't want to steal again. Maybe you met someone who you liked spending time with, and it turns out that this person thinks it would be fun to do some minor shoplifting, but you don't want to repeat your past mistake and be the person you were in the past, and your new acquaintance not only didn't accept your decision, but saw you as personally slighting them. I think it says something more about the integrity of  the person encouraging the shoplifting than it does about the one who does not want to participate. 

 

Maybe the girls aren't being disrespectful when they don't automatically sleep with you. Maybe they sense they own shame from acting poorly in the past, and if they actually like you, they could possibly have a gut instinct that the only way there could be a positive outcome for a relationship between the two of you is if she acts with some integrity and self-value. Maybe the girls really are just not into you or they really are disrespectful, but I don't think you're looking at it through they eyes of a guy who is seeking a woman he could potentially cherish and protect. 

[smarterthanone]

On 6/11/2018 at 4:12 PM, Elizbaeth said:

I think I understand how you feel, and it's not unreasonable to feel that way. It would feel like a personal slight if a girl did not do with you what she had done with someone else. However, if someone does something in the past that they regret and learn from, then, if that person values their own character and soul, they probably won't want to do the same thing again. It's not really about you. It's about that person maintaining their own sense of integrity. Maybe this will help - and it's not a perfect analogy, but oh well - if you stole something in the past, got caught, and actually regretted stealing (not just the getting caught), you wouldn't want to steal again. Maybe you met someone who you liked spending time with, and it turns out that this person thinks it would be fun to do some minor shoplifting, but you don't want to repeat your past mistake and be the person you were in the past, and your new acquaintance not only didn't accept your decision, but saw you as personally slighting them. I think it says something more about the integrity of  the person encouraging the shoplifting than it does about the one who does not want to participate. 

I highly doubt she gained some kind of morals, more likely she noticed none of the guys at church try to date her anymore and lots of scumbag guys now are ramping up the effort and shes smart enough to see what happened and regrets her current position. Not really regretting it from a moral perspective but a practical perspective. A big ol' dick cannot teach you morals. Lol.

I also think its possible to have self respect and not wait till marriage, it really is a cultural thing and how you are raised. So her idea to become "born again" is not related to self respect or moral thinking.

From an SMV perspective id marry a virgin first, a non virgin who I could have sex with that was good before marriage second, and a born again virgin last. Its literally the bottom of the barrel, non marriageable IMO. Socially its also intuitively embarrassing. If anyone ever found out I paid $35,000 for new car, let some other dude drive it for awhile until its beat up and then now I drive it around, how could I possibly ever be proud of that? Id be more proud to buy a $5000 car for $500 and get 10 years out of it then send it to the junk yard. The more I date and think about this stuff the more I really believe marriage is for virgins. AND people who have very low SMV possibly too, but im not super concerned with that view point at the moment.

[Elizbaeth]

18 hours ago, smarterthanone said:

I highly doubt she gained some kind of morals, more likely she noticed none of the guys at church try to date her anymore and lots of scumbag guys now are ramping up the effort and shes smart enough to see what happened and regrets her current position. Not really regretting it from a moral perspective but a practical perspective. A big ol' dick cannot teach you morals. Lol.

Ah. Sorry then. I was trying to be hopeful, but if she really hasn't learned anything and only regrets that her options have narrowed, then she would just be the thief who was sad she got caught. 

 

18 hours ago, smarterthanone said:

I also think its possible to have self respect and not wait till marriage, it really is a cultural thing and how you are raised.

I agree. I would, however, also say that in this case, the devil is also in the details. It's hard to moralize something so general. But yeah, I've seen it too. 

 

18 hours ago, smarterthanone said:

If anyone ever found out I paid $35,000 for new car, let some other dude drive it for awhile until its beat up and then now I drive it around, how could I possibly ever be proud of that? Id be more proud to buy a $5000 car for $500 and get 10 years out of it then send it to the junk yard.

Yeah. The Royal Wedding was a jaw-dropper for me. I can't believe that the royal family would allow him to marry her. She's super cute and charismatic, but aren't there a billion other cute and charismatic girls available for Prince Harry? 

 

18 hours ago, smarterthanone said:

The more I date and think about this stuff the more I really believe marriage is for virgins. AND people who have very low SMV possibly too, but im not super concerned with that view point at the moment.

Have you ever considered using a Matchmaker service? I would have used one if I could have afforded it when I was single. I used the internet, and really loved how I could screen via my answers and other input, but I remember wishing back in my college days that there was a matchmaker around who could find me someone. Because there's no "The One." There are people who have qualities that you can love and live with and who are compatible with you in other ways, and I would have given a lot when I was younger to know that there was someone I could trust to select a proper mate for me. It would have saved me so much time and emotional energy, and I could have used my remaining time to do many more things. I think I read somewhere on another post that you made some money in real estate, or something like that. What if you hired a matchmaker? You could specify what qualities you wanted, the matchmaker service could screen women who had only those qualities, and then you could choose from that pool of women. You could also look at the women's histories, their families, their education, etc, and you could know that they had everything on paper that you would need for a marriage to logistically work before you ever wasted any emotional investment on them. Also, if you selected the perfect girl, and things were tense, you would know that the flaw was in you and you should probably need to improve yourself. I think it's perfect. Companies use hiring firms to screen potential employees, right? Then those that make it through are personally interviewed by the employer. Why shouldn't relationships be treated the same way? It would provide a perfectly stable environment for a loving, passionate relationship to grow and thrive. 

 

[smarterthanone]

17 minutes ago, Elizbaeth said:

Ah. Sorry then. I was trying to be hopeful, but if she really hasn't learned anything and only regrets that her options have narrowed, then she would just be the thief who was sad she got caught. 

Well it turns out this particular one got high and forgot what time it was and was like can you drive an hour away to come see me instead of us meeting in the town we both live in. I said no. Not wifey material. lol

 

17 minutes ago, Elizbaeth said:

I agree. I would, however, also say that in this case, the devil is also in the details. It's hard to moralize something so general. But yeah, I've seen it too. 

So if a girl grows up in a family that doesn't stress it at all, she may be moral in general but only happens to still be a virgin, OR moral but not a virgin. I've been in a few serious relationships with virgins and a few with non virgins, the commitment level was very different, even the ones that didn't do it for moral reasons.

 

17 minutes ago, Elizbaeth said:

Yeah. The Royal Wedding was a jaw-dropper for me. I can't believe that the royal family would allow him to marry her. She's super cute and charismatic, but aren't there a billion other cute and charismatic girls available for Prince Harry?

Well they are pushing the whole liberal feminist agenda. That is the feminist thing for him to do.

 

17 minutes ago, Elizbaeth said:

Have you ever considered using a Matchmaker service? I would have used one if I could have afforded it when I was single. I used the internet, and really loved how I could screen via my answers and other input, but I remember wishing back in my college days that there was a matchmaker around who could find me someone. Because there's no "The One." There are people who have qualities that you can love and live with and who are compatible with you in other ways, and I would have given a lot when I was younger to know that there was someone I could trust to select a proper mate for me. It would have saved me so much time and emotional energy, and I could have used my remaining time to do many more things. I think I read somewhere on another post that you made some money in real estate, or something like that. What if you hired a matchmaker? You could specify what qualities you wanted, the matchmaker service could screen women who had only those qualities, and then you could choose from that pool of women. You could also look at the women's histories, their families, their education, etc, and you could know that they had everything on paper that you would need for a marriage to logistically work before you ever wasted any emotional investment on them. Also, if you selected the perfect girl, and things were tense, you would know that the flaw was in you and you should probably need to improve yourself. I think it's perfect. Companies use hiring firms to screen potential employees, right? Then those that make it through are personally interviewed by the employer. Why shouldn't relationships be treated the same way? It would provide a perfectly stable environment for a loving, passionate relationship to grow and thrive. 

I know someone who worked at a matchmaking service and said they just match you with anyone, they are terrible at keeping to your requests. Biggest was 99% of all men using the service ask for women with NO KIDS, and half the time they set them up with women with kids anyways.

Secondly, I tried calling one and they just didn't get it, she was like what career should she have and I said "None" and she was like, "for real, like she could work at starbucks?" and I said "sure, sounds fine". It really threw her for a loop. I don't think men like me use match making services.

[Elizbaeth]

On 6/13/2018 at 3:47 PM, smarterthanone said:

I know someone who worked at a matchmaking service and said they just match you with anyone, they are terrible at keeping to your requests. Biggest was 99% of all men using the service ask for women with NO KIDS, and half the time they set them up with women with kids anyways.

Secondly, I tried calling one and they just didn't get it, she was like what career should she have and I said "None" and she was like, "for real, like she could work at starbucks?" and I said "sure, sounds fine". It really threw her for a loop. I don't think men like me use match making services.

Aw, I'm sorry. That's disappointing. I guess they're just used to hunting for a certain profile and can't adjust to you. Sorry. I was so sure that a matchmaking service would take all your romantic woes and worries away. 

[smarterthanone]

3 hours ago, Elizbaeth said:

Aw, I'm sorry. That's disappointing. I guess they're just used to hunting for a certain profile and can't adjust to you. Sorry. I was so sure that a matchmaking service would take all your romantic woes and worries away. 

They are used to some liberal lawyer who wants to marry a liberal doctor. The whole childless professional marriage sort of thing.

[AnonLifeForm]

As far as logic alone. 

If a girl doesn't give you sexual gratification, she doesn't love you or has something reallly really important like saving the world that cannot wait.

The logic is simple.

Value given to you > Cost to her. Unless you're repugnant. If a women won't give me sex I wouldn't expect her to give me literally anything of lower cost/benefit ratio.

[MahtiSonni]

In my country people say "a lake doesn't wear from use".  I answer "a human is not a lake".

What we do leaves a mark.  Every choice counts.  You get used to getting used or using others, you're not going to be a good long term relationship prospect.