Germany now going full police state

[Germ-a-knee]

There is a decisive will to quickly change the german Grundgesetz to enable police to freely break into private property to install bugs and surveillance software on devices of people who are 'assumed' to have connections to 'terror'. See also this german article:

https://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Staatstrojaner-Polizei-soll-in-Wohnungen-einbrechen-duerfen-4075115.html

The inviolability of the home in article 13 of the Grundgesetz forbids this for obvious and very good reasons. Police might secretly break into homes of dissidents and other inconvenient people and plant 'evidence' of a crime that never happened, in order to be able to lock them away. How the federal justice ministers can even begin to think that such evidence used in court could have any type of reliability and correctness is inconceivable. That's a good way to destroy the remains of an at least partially working law and justice system in Germany. 

[barn]

Hi @Germ-a-knee

That sucks, big time! What's next, UK style incarceration for wrongthink?

I mean Sweden already does it, Spain does it... etc.

Is it just me, or the European legislators trying to softly ease into a full-on totalitarian governance... Have they no brain, their memory is akin to a goldfish's (~6months)... Anything and everything can be, will be used against them too... Do they not understand the consequences of signing their own...???

... it's mental!

(Thanks for the heads up)

There's another number 13, the vote is on the 20-21, if passed no-one will be free to share articles just as you referenced. So, likely we won't even hear about more loss of freedoms after that.

[Germ-a-knee]

Hi barn,

I'm already looking into leaving Europe ASAP and starting a business in a different world region to make a decent living from that. I have come to believe that Europe is now a 100% absolutely unsalvageable basket case. Aside from its now totalitarian AND fascist police state nature, taxation is one of the highest - decently earning people lose almost two thirds of their income after taxation (including VAT etc) in Germany. This region is quickly collapsing in regards to level of civilization and cultural integrity. The EU, under german leadership, converts everyhing it touches into a steaming, bloodied pile of shit and degeneracy. Historians will look back and think, what the hell, Germans/Europeans? Still shaking my head.. 

[barn]

2 hours ago, Germ-a-knee said:

Hi barn,

I'm already looking into leaving Europe ASAP and starting a business in a different world region to make a decent living from that. I have come to believe that Europe is now a 100% absolutely unsalvageable basket case. 

If I held similar views to yours, would it be accurate (objective-ly) to characterise it as cowardice, having given up, faithless? (Please, see this inquiry for its true form; intellectual honesty in seeking clarity... no way/shape or form am I trying to stick empty labels BUT hope to better 'see' that is./isn't.)

2 hours ago, Germ-a-knee said:

- decently earning people lose almost two thirds of their income after taxation (including VAT etc) in Germany. This region [...]

Agreed. Although if redistribution of industrial/agricultural production within the member nations (supplemented with subsidies and EU regulation, i.e - lets not allow previously majority sugar cane producing regions provide jobs and import it instead from abroad dirt-cheap...)

... well, high taxes would be still more livable than now. In case the incentive was reversed, the now skilled labour free regions wouldn't have to 'reinvent the wheel'.

As in: restore economic independence, attract able bodied, common value-sharing individuals... which now seems like a feat so out there as 'alchemy 1o1' (converting matter into gold)

2 hours ago, Germ-a-knee said:

Historians will look back and think, what the hell, Germans/Europeans? Still shaking my head..  

I know. I know... I kn...

Greed corrupts. Astronomical greed corrupts astron...

Can we swap ideas in pm regarding next steps?

[Germ-a-knee]

17 minutes ago, barn said:

If I held similar views to yours, would it be accurate (objective-ly) to characterise it as cowardice, having given up, faithless?

Agreed. Although if redistribution of industrial/agricultural production within the member nations (supplemented with subsidies and EU regulation, i.e - lets not allow previously majority sugar cane producing regions provide jobs and import it instead from abroad dirt-cheap...)

... well, high taxes would be still more livable than now. In case the incentive was reversed, the now skilled labour free regions wouldn't have to 'reinvent the wheel'.

As in: restore economic independence, attract able bodied, common value-sharing individuals... which now seems like a feat so out there as 'alchemy 1o1' (converting matter into gold)

I know. I know... I kn...

Greed corrupts. Astronomical greed corrupts astron...

Can we swap ideas in pm regarding next steps?

I believe and feel that it is the natural drive of evolution for individuals to leave a decaying economic and societal biotope, that has become especially toxic to highly educated and experienced people like me (electrical and computer engineer, currently working in the aerospace industry - that one is now also in shit-shape, let me tell you. Politics ruins anything). Leaving the well-known biotope and entering a new, unknown biotope requires - quite the contrary - braveness, a strong forward looking mind and unwavering faith in one's own abilities. I wish to put my knowledge and expertise into building up something that could be useful to the whole world (if possible) and not being constantly hindered, interrupted and prevented from action by an inept bureaucracy of a now totalitarian, fascist and socialist regime like the EU and/or Germany. No thanks  . The world is incredibly big, and the world (#metoo) just stopped giving a flying **** about the antics of this little world region. I believe it boils down to personal choice. The less personal liabilities a person has, the easier the choice becomes and the easier and more successfully it can be implemented. Better try and do something good for the world somewhere else and die trying, than stay and - with certainty - never amount to anything.

If you like to, PM me.

[barn]

26 minutes ago, Germ-a-knee said:

I believe and feel that it is the natural drive of evolution for individuals to leave a decaying economic and societal biotope, that has become especially toxic to highly educated and experienced people like me (electrical and computer engineer, currently working in the aerospace industry - that one is now also in shit-shape, let me tell you. Politics ruins anything).

That's Logical, understandable, yes. Can't disagree, here. Guilt-free for wanting to surmount to your full potential (as of my own... don't see how it could be argued against, neither)

27 minutes ago, Germ-a-knee said:

Leaving the well-known biotope and entering a new, unknown biotope requires - quite the contrary - braveness, a strong forward looking mind and unwavering faith in one's own abilities. I wish to put my knowledge and expertise into building up something that could be useful to the whole world (if possible) and not being constantly hindered, interrupted and prevented from action by an inept bureaucracy of a now totalitarian, fascist and socialist regime like the EU and/or Germany. No thanks 

Oh, no... Of course, (K.I.S.S. principle) keep-it-sillysimple... water flows towards the least resistance, (let's not dwelve into supercooled helium...but,) in general, I agree (as in: self-preservation, best use of opportunity cost(s), seeing what's about to occur most likely in the immediate future).

I see and also 'feel' you.

Even-so, that doesn't diminish the fact that the less able, can't and won't rely on those more suited to untie the knots created by the miss-guided, the despicable and dangerous. Abandoning them (conundrum: after they'd taken advantage of 'us', is in part, leaving them to their own devices(greatly, not entirely reduced opportunities). Am I right in that?

43 minutes ago, Germ-a-knee said:

The world is incredibly big, and the world (#metoo) just stopped giving a flying **** about the antics of this little world region. I believe it boils down to personal choice. The less personal liabilities a person has, the easier the choice becomes and the easier and more successfully it can be implemented. Better try and do something good for the world somewhere else and die trying, than stay and - with certainty - never amount to anything. 

Ok. Let's say your assertion was correct.

What's the insurance  'that the drying up pond won't loose more water, gradually being reduced until it's all but a dry depression in the desert'?

I'm looking at what comes after having survived the first wave, as it's not too comforting to realise what can happen in one part of the world might just leap overnight to elsewhere... f&#ck!!!

[Germ-a-knee]

I strictly follow the philosophy that every adult average human being has full agency in their life and I generally do not make any exceptions from that rule. There are very specific circumstances in which this rule cannot be applied, sure. However, I don't care about the 0.01% being the exceptions, but I care about the 99.99% of all average adult human beings. We live in quasi-magical times in which the world's information is at every individual's fingertips. Why would I care whether one specific individual can't be arsed to get off their fat butt and study how the world is structured and what they could do with effort and discipline. Adult humans are not little children to be taken by the hand and lead through their lives, if they behave stupidly and get rekt in the process. I find it degrading and contemptuous to think of adults in such ways. If you personally make a terrible choice in life, you personally pay for it and not anyone else. The opposite is true, too. If you make a great choice in life, you keep what's rightfully yours and nobody has any right to rob you of the fruits of your great decisions especially for no reason whatsoever. So, "abandoning them".. nope. There was never one that could be abandoned, because I'm not the custodian of under-age kids who need guidance.

But that is actually a good point you're bringing up there. I think that what has happened to a large portion of the manifold european peoples over the last century is the peoples (d)evolving into under-age kids that never want to grow up and that want to be led by custodians. And hence, EU politics has turned over many decades into parent-teacher conferences discussing the bad and good behaviours of specific children in the EU class and how to punish the 'bad kids'. Doesn't quite seem to work that way, does it? There are very logical and consequential reasons for the existence of parties like the AfD in Germany nowadays. The don't exist because they have great solutions. They exist because the political (self-appointed) elites thought they could ignore human nature and create a synthetic world. And the masses bluntly reject it.

I think that Europe has become susceptible to the insanity and suicidal tendencies because most peoples of Europe have stopped believing. Be it gods or passionate visions of a glorious future. And that's why it seems only consequential to me that the Muslims will quite naturally take over the region within the next 100 years. The muslim faith has a strong and IMO nigh indestructible DNA that gets replicated with most muslim children born. It's a natural process. Meanwhile, the Europeans seem to have degenerated so much that they even refuse to produce their own children in sufficient numbers to at least keep their own civilzations intact. Historians will truly scratch their heads about this one. I don't believe there is a non-negligible chance of the european degeneracy infecting other regions. It will rather serve as a severe warning to other civilizations.

Edited June 9, 2018 by Germ-a-knee
typos

[barn]

(before all, let me compliment your English, I personally enjoy reading you!)

16 hours ago, Germ-a-knee said:

I strictly follow the philosophy that every adult average human being has full agency in their life and I generally do not make any exceptions from that rule. 

Ok. In very broad terms I can see why that's better (than its opposite variations, determinism even), it's reminiscent of the "unexamined life's not worth..."

What do you think about (if I'm nitpicking needlessly, let me know) 'appropriately graded' responsibility?

As in: 'Each to its ability.'

i. e: Don't expect a child to take (also moral) responsibility for any action that's outside of what's perceivable to him/her (because can't relate, lack of experience). Isn't it fair to expect their guardians to do that, until... you get me, right?!

The reason why I used this example, even though you specifically said

16 hours ago, Germ-a-knee said:

There are very specific circumstances in which this rule cannot be applied, sure. However, I don't care about the 0.01% being the exceptions, but I care about the 99.99% of all average adult human beings.

is to illustrate the point of the distinction 'adult' should be replaced (better?) with 'aware' and even then, there are more difficulties for me seeing the justification for (greatly exaggerated) 'leaving people to their own devices'.

16 hours ago, Germ-a-knee said:

Why would I care whether one specific individual can't be arsed to get off their fat butt and study how the world is structured and what they could do with effort and discipline. Adult humans are not little children to be taken by the hand and lead through their lives, if they behave stupidly and get rekt in the process. I find it degrading and contemptuous to think of adults in such ways. 

When observing my own actions, I generally act as you put it. Respecting individuals sufficiently to happily allow them get 'rekt' if they want to (Hahaha, that's a word I haven't seen in a while, kinda hard to focus now... dooh!) I'm not convinced about if it's applicable for groups of people or if I'm missing something important because of convenience... but that's maybe because I don't know/understand enough.

Apart from sufficient experience, there's intelligence:

1. It's possible for a more intelligent to scale down, do an entry level job. While expecting the inverse from a less gifted individual is just plain nutts. (wink, wink - globalists, socialists)

2. You can teach 'application', not processing speed.

What I'm trying to say is that the oversimplification of principles runs the risk of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

A CPU does the calculation but take away circuits and it's useless... does the circuit have less value? Well,  yhheaa... but even so we need both if we want to play 'Kandi-krush' or determine DV1's closest approach to the degree of ~10 000km accuracy (that one passed in march).

16 hours ago, Germ-a-knee said:

If you personally make a terrible choice in life, you personally pay for it and not anyone else. The opposite is true, too. If you make a great choice in life, you keep what's rightfully yours and nobody has any right to rob you of the fruits of your great decisions especially for no reason whatsoever. 

I so wish that was true, that your idea was objectively provable in reality. 'snot ('It's not.')

Please refresh my memory... (being cheeky, playful)

Why are you looking to move ASAP? Because the individuals who made terrible choices..., because you are shielded from the consequences of their NOT TAKING responsibility?

Nobody has the right to rob you from the fruits of your labou...Hahaha, I'm sorry... couldn't hold it in.

So given that I meaningfully demonstrated that what you put forward is a great ideal, though isn't realistically present only in a small portion...

May I suggest that we introduce a few more variables into the way we see individuals living in a society, their responsibility taking being a mixture of many things, some of which are not up to them (ie - coercion) + (for now)?

16 hours ago, Germ-a-knee said:

So, "abandoning them".. nope. There was never one that could be abandoned, because I'm not the custodian of under-age kids who need guidance. 

I can argue both, in conflict with myself to be honest.

Yes, can't take responsibility for what's not mine. (self ownership, respecting freewill)

No, I can't NOT TO FEEL responsible when I (at least) can provide (or believe) guidance. That's why I feel cowardness, even though astronomical odds are, I shouldn't. F&#ck!!!

16 hours ago, Germ-a-knee said:

(I.) I think that what has happened to a large portion of the manifold european peoples over the last century is the peoples (d)evolving into under-age kids that never want to grow up and that want to be led by custodians. And hence, EU politics has turned over many decades into parent-teacher conferences discussing the bad and good behaviours of specific children in the EU class and how to punish the 'bad kids'. Doesn't quite seem to work that way, does it? There are very logical and consequential reasons for the existence of parties like the AfD in Germany nowadays. The don't exist because they have great solutions. They exist because the political (self-appointed) elites thought they could ignore human nature and create a synthetic world. (II.) And the masses bluntly reject it.

I. - Word! (agree, because outsourcing responsibility is what's the EU's been about)

II. - disagree because people aren't stepping up to the line. (as in, seeing what's been happening SW/NL/FR/UK/SP, the metrics... critical mass is decades away... F@&ck!!!)

Remember?! We both expressed a desire to move away! That must mean we've given up... doesn't it?

17 hours ago, Germ-a-knee said:

I think that Europe has become susceptible to the insanity and suicidal tendencies because most peoples of Europe have stopped believing. Be it gods or passionate visions of a glorious future. And that's why it seems only consequential to me that the Muslims will quite naturally take over the region within the next 100 years. 

(sigh) I would personally put it to within 6 or so generations (technically), though the realisation might came after for most.

17 hours ago, Germ-a-knee said:

The muslim faith has a strong and IMO nigh indestructible DNA that gets replicated with most muslim children born. 

Maybe it's the aggressive nature of it, the 'warrior gene' - s gradual and incremental occurrence within the populace, while lower consciousness allows for ignoring morality and curbing the 'column B'. (Got reminded of a podcast by Stefan Molyneux where he talked about choosing one property that is the opposite of another, directly diminishes the choices from 'column A'. ie - becoming more extrovert, diminishes traits of introversion)

Also, cousin marriages is seemingly speeds up producing less advanced humans, many requisites of a democratic style society being outside of the options for them... can't get a working democracy under IQ 95, If I remember correctly. It's mental! (no pun intended)

17 hours ago, Germ-a-knee said:

Meanwhile, the Europeans seem to have degenerated so much that they even refuse to produce their own children in sufficient numbers to at least keep their own civilzations intact.

Yes, see that's another reason why I don't think your earlier statement about 'choices acrew to the one making... ' + 'can't rob fruits of labour...' is accurate (to say the least).

Right?! People respond to incentives in general, the general population 'fell' for the trap of outsourced decisions are better illusion and look, the more intelligent is unhappy, of course they don't feel like striving. While those who can't perceive really what's going on, the less gifted, they think everything is honkey-dorey and think it's the best time/place to be alive. In that, I think they're correct and don't blame them. They just wondered into a treasure store, doors were open... it's the guards that have to be sacked and replaced by competent ones. (me thinks)

Thank you for reading.

[J.L.W]

I don't know. This whole substructure of power is kept up by the EU, if that were to collapse I think things would rapidly shift and the UKIP's/ 5 Stars/ Le Pens and their equivalent will quickly gain ground. The EU have a real fight on their hands with Italy, it's third biggest contributor.

[J.L.W]

Plus, no one ever talks about these things but I think India and China will soon have a bigger sway over things which will also have an effect.