smarterthanone Posted June 13, 2018 Posted June 13, 2018 So there are lots of high IQ people having a hard time connecting with people, getting dates, making close relationships, etc. If you are so smart, why don't you just do it? Like aren't you smart enough to see why you aren't having success and then do something about it? I naturally have had a hard time with that stuff and have a high IQ, but I just like turn off things and turn on others and then I fit in just fine. In fact I dislike socializing with most really high IQ people because I find them so awkward even though I do love to talk about things with them, I just can't stand THEM. Part of it is they remind me of how I could be if I wasn't aware enough to not be that way. Aren't they smart enough to realize "I cant geek out on math right now because the audience is not going to be receptive to this topic" yet I often see these intelligent people doing just that and people getting like "ugh, not feeling it". So shouldn't an intelligent person be able to see these patterns and then adjust? Also if you are so intelligent, shouldn't you be super confident because you know you are the smartest in the room? Once I took my IQ test the first time, I looked at the stats and was like wow, typically in any normal setting I am the most intelligent person here, you know like in a bar or at a party or in a typical undergrad college classroom. Made me feel more confident. But it usually is the reverse for most intelligent people, like they often are not confident at all and let dumb people come up with the ideas instead of jumping in like "YO, thats just stupid bro". Bit of a rant but for real I always wonder this. It seems rare for very intelligent people to break out of these characteristics.
Siegfried von Walheim Posted June 13, 2018 Posted June 13, 2018 If I had to guess? Probably because our standards are high. I'm not talking about the socially awkward--that's got some more to it--but about why smart people in general struggle to make friends and spouses. Because we are looking for quality, nothing but what we're looking for will do. However we can overestimate and overvalue ourselves and aim too high or aim for something that either isn't real or is real only for the great men. For the socially awkward... Well, it may be a conflict of interest (mentally). On one hand they may want to socialize and "be normal", on the other they may dislike their company and want more, and another still may be sending red flags to warn the person that they're in bad company. Smart people think and sense a lot. Therefore I imagine if they betray their instincts they'll be a lot less confident and more awkward. Personally, I'm used to be very awkward back when I wanted friends. However I didn't like the people around me and a part of me both knew I was hanging with the wrong crowd and another disrespected me for hanging low. I felt and acted a whole lot better when I stopped trying to make false friends with shared-hobby types and instead looked for only the most interesting and intelligent folks I could find. Mind you I don't have many friends but I'm a hell of a lot better off as someone who speaks his mind and actively attracts and repels people than I was trying to be obedient to authority and a social chameleon. However, for smart people in general, I don't know if my own experiences are common or rare. I assume smart people being awkward comes from a lack of respect for themselves and those around them--both justly and unjustly--while trying to pretend to be respectful and good. Basically I think there's more going on up stairs and the result is awkwardness in the face. EDIT: I don't know about the geek types though. I never was much for numbers or science Latin/Greek but I loved to talk about history and politics. And if I wasn't getting a reception, I wasn't sending anymore signals. However again I don't know about other people, just me.
Kohlrak Posted June 13, 2018 Posted June 13, 2018 9 hours ago, smarterthanone said: So there are lots of high IQ people having a hard time connecting with people, getting dates, making close relationships, etc. If you are so smart, why don't you just do it? Like aren't you smart enough to see why you aren't having success and then do something about it? I naturally have had a hard time with that stuff and have a high IQ, but I just like turn off things and turn on others and then I fit in just fine. In fact I dislike socializing with most really high IQ people because I find them so awkward even though I do love to talk about things with them, I just can't stand THEM. Part of it is they remind me of how I could be if I wasn't aware enough to not be that way. Aren't they smart enough to realize "I cant geek out on math right now because the audience is not going to be receptive to this topic" yet I often see these intelligent people doing just that and people getting like "ugh, not feeling it". So shouldn't an intelligent person be able to see these patterns and then adjust? Also if you are so intelligent, shouldn't you be super confident because you know you are the smartest in the room? Once I took my IQ test the first time, I looked at the stats and was like wow, typically in any normal setting I am the most intelligent person here, you know like in a bar or at a party or in a typical undergrad college classroom. Made me feel more confident. But it usually is the reverse for most intelligent people, like they often are not confident at all and let dumb people come up with the ideas instead of jumping in like "YO, thats just stupid bro". Bit of a rant but for real I always wonder this. It seems rare for very intelligent people to break out of these characteristics. Could it be Dunning-Kreuger effect? In other words, dumb people act smart, smart people appear dumb because the dumb people don't get it? Or could it be that smart people expect more of dumb people and have just as much of a hard time wrapping their heads around lack of intelligence as dumb people have at accepting there are people smarter than them?
smarterthanone Posted June 13, 2018 Author Posted June 13, 2018 9 hours ago, ofd said: What's your score? I've taken different tests over the past 5 years and consistently score about 140-145. Lowest ever was I think 135 and highest ever was 150. Not all tests are the same so that will provide variation as well as a 10 pt swing is normal variation as well on the same test. I just like to check up on it occasionally, make sure I am still sharp. Lol. 6 hours ago, Kohlrak said: Could it be Dunning-Kreuger effect? In other words, dumb people act smart, smart people appear dumb because the dumb people don't get it? Or could it be that smart people expect more of dumb people and have just as much of a hard time wrapping their heads around lack of intelligence as dumb people have at accepting there are people smarter than them? I think they also may just simply not have an interest in people. Whereas I think many intelligent people who do take an interest in people become psychologists or similar types of things. I don't know. But you would think essentially any intelligent person should be able to figure out how an average or low IQ person thinks.
Kohlrak Posted June 13, 2018 Posted June 13, 2018 2 hours ago, smarterthanone said: I think they also may just simply not have an interest in people. Whereas I think many intelligent people who do take an interest in people become psychologists or similar types of things. I don't know. But you would think essentially any intelligent person should be able to figure out how an average or low IQ person thinks. Depends on how much "above" them they are. Your average shmuck is more intelligent than a cat, but yet we have spent how many years trying to figure them out. And you can't tell me there hasn't been a fair amount of interest, especially with all the money spent on it.. That said, i think "autism spectrum" is worth looking into, here. For the past few years, i've been considering the possibility that autism spectrum disorders, such as ADHD, are merely IQ indicators. Dunning-Kreuger effect making people assume that they're "stupid," when actual studies fail to take IQ suppressive factors in medication into account when studying them. I've also noticed a autism-depression correlation, and i keep hearing about an IQ-depression correlation. And, a psychiatry student i met online told me that usually the people who get into that field are people who try to help others since they couldn't help themselves. She was definitely such a case. But, i'm also giving myself away: i tried to help her. Take those points how you will, even if they are anecdotal.
J.L.W Posted June 15, 2018 Posted June 15, 2018 If you have that mental ability you have to use it, otherwise you go quite completely mad. It's like a very athletic person might get wound up and angry if they don't exercise. Perhaps it would be more beneficial for them to stay at home in this example but they have to go out for a three hour run everyday.
GoodJBoy Posted June 15, 2018 Posted June 15, 2018 Life is like dungeons and dragons where Intelligence, Wisdom, Charisma and Alignment (good, neutral, evil in character)are totally separate from one another. You can have a brilliant, unwise, evil, uncharismatic hermit in that game and you can also have that in real life.
MysterionMuffles Posted June 28, 2018 Posted June 28, 2018 On 6/13/2018 at 12:30 AM, smarterthanone said: So there are lots of high IQ people having a hard time connecting with people, getting dates, making close relationships, etc. If you are so smart, why don't you just do it? Like aren't you smart enough to see why you aren't having success and then do something about it? I naturally have had a hard time with that stuff and have a high IQ, but I just like turn off things and turn on others and then I fit in just fine. In fact I dislike socializing with most really high IQ people because I find them so awkward even though I do love to talk about things with them, I just can't stand THEM. Part of it is they remind me of how I could be if I wasn't aware enough to not be that way. Aren't they smart enough to realize "I cant geek out on math right now because the audience is not going to be receptive to this topic" yet I often see these intelligent people doing just that and people getting like "ugh, not feeling it". So shouldn't an intelligent person be able to see these patterns and then adjust? Also if you are so intelligent, shouldn't you be super confident because you know you are the smartest in the room? Once I took my IQ test the first time, I looked at the stats and was like wow, typically in any normal setting I am the most intelligent person here, you know like in a bar or at a party or in a typical undergrad college classroom. Made me feel more confident. But it usually is the reverse for most intelligent people, like they often are not confident at all and let dumb people come up with the ideas instead of jumping in like "YO, thats just stupid bro". Bit of a rant but for real I always wonder this. It seems rare for very intelligent people to break out of these characteristics. You might enjoy my thread about this, except I don't think intelligent people are "stupid," though they are often unwise in terms of social decorum.
soundwave86 Posted June 30, 2018 Posted June 30, 2018 Surely it's simply just people who love they're subjects of interest and endeavours, but decide to forget about gaining self knowledge, assuming it simple and not worthy. I've met plenty of intelligent people who are confident and socially aware, as well as those who are more like what you describe. True, there is probably more like you describe. My score has been between 140 and 180 when I was young. But like... ill take another test in a few years. I don't really care what it is right now.
Anne Guillory Posted July 10, 2018 Posted July 10, 2018 I’ve struggled with the same sort of questions most of my life. I saw intelligent people around me who never thought to question anything, and that drove me nuts! I have never been very social and struggle with social anxiety, but I also get completely bored with the average persons topic of conversation. I also struggle with patience dealing with coworkers who don’t seem to have “common sense”. Perhaps that’s because what seems obvious or “common sense” to me, isn’t quite as obvious to them? But, yes, you would think that intelligent people would make smarter decisions and think deeper than many seem to :-l
S1988 Posted July 10, 2018 Posted July 10, 2018 My older sister's a PhD. student, yet she never questions what Queen Mother says no matter how ridiculous or contradictory it sounds. Like she says, "Be independent," and then gets mad when I disagree with her or do something that doesn't align with her views. I don't get it. Why tell me to do something, then get mad at me for doing it? One of the reasons I can't have her in my life is that sometimes she doesn't make an ounce of sense. I'm a lowly college dropout, and I'm very adapt at noticing contradictions because I was raised with much hypocrisy and double-standards. On the other hand though, everyone does something stupid sometimes regardless of their intelligence; it's human. I have a tendency to fall for scams, but I'm becoming more diligent about that.
Bob Jones Posted July 18, 2018 Posted July 18, 2018 This all really comes down to abuse and defense mechanisms. I'm reading the book "Healing the Shame That Binds You" by John Bradshaw and it really goes hand in hand with Stef's work in Real-Time Relationships and how terrified people are of realizing that they are slaves. The difference is that Bradshaw breaks it down a lot more, calls slavery "ego defenses," and gives you the tools to undo it in a therapeutic way. I can say as an IQ ~130 that I'm struggling even though I can acknowledge what the problems appear to be and where they may come from. The book really explained it well. I had 3 vivid dreams during a nap after the first 50 pages I read one morning. These people suffer from the deepest layers of ego defense (out of 4 or 5) which stemmed from the earliest development period of childhood. Shame binds to an emotion or stimulus as abuse occurs and slowly cripples us as we grow. This occurs because we were not allowed to express these emotions. And I want to challenge your thinking. If you need an external accomplishment or attribute to be "confident" is it really confidence? Like the guy that is "confident" because he is tall or good looking? I heard a guy say in high school once, "Weed makes me so confident." Does it really? Or does it numb the part of you that wasn't loved unconditionally as a young kid (in reference to the book above)? I think you might be mistaking confidence for vanity. As far as I understand it confidence is internally driven and hard-earned or well parented into us.
Siegfried von Walheim Posted July 18, 2018 Posted July 18, 2018 14 hours ago, Bob Jones said: These people suffer from the deepest layers of ego defense (out of 4 or 5) which stemmed from the earliest development period of childhood. Shame binds to an emotion or stimulus as abuse occurs and slowly cripples us as we grow. This occurs because we were not allowed to express these emotions. What exactly is "ego defenses"? Shame? Well, I can't say shame is necessarily a bad thing. For me at least, it's the stick to my carrot that gives me an extra push to be productive and make a decent man out of myself. After all, if the carrot's not seeming so tasty, it helps to have a stick be like "hey man, wanna be like those guys? No? Then keep trodding, eventually you'll get the carrot..." and I have a pretty defined carrot... 14 hours ago, Bob Jones said: And I want to challenge your thinking. If you need an external accomplishment or attribute to be "confident" is it really confidence? Like the guy that is "confident" because he is tall or good looking? I heard a guy say in high school once, "Weed makes me so confident." Does it really? Or does it numb the part of you that wasn't loved unconditionally as a young kid (in reference to the book above)? I think you might be mistaking confidence for vanity. As far as I understand it confidence is internally driven and hard-earned or well parented into us. To be confident, I think, one must be acting in accordance with his values and be productive in reaching his goals. I am most confident after a good day's work and least confident after a vacation. I tend to enjoy the leisure times most when I've worked the best (not necessarily hardest, as often if I push myself too hard or try to compensate quality with quantity, I'll simply be spending more time to achieve less) and I tend to appreciate my life the most when I compare it to how it used to be, especially for my ancestors. Obviously shooting your frontal lobes with drugs is a stupid and self-destructive idea. The real cure to depression, anxiety, and all that is to speak the truth, shame the Devil, spot the mountaintop, and make gradual process ascending it. Or, to put it another way, figure out what's wrong, declare it wrong, learn from it, find out what's right, figure our what you want to do (like an ambition or series of lifelong goals), and then proceed to do it.
mgggb Posted July 19, 2018 Posted July 19, 2018 On 6/13/2018 at 12:30 AM, smarterthanone said: So there are lots of high IQ people having a hard time connecting with people, getting dates, making close relationships, etc. Quality =/= quantity. The majority of everything is average to subpar and it is better to have no relationships than bad ones.
S1988 Posted July 19, 2018 Posted July 19, 2018 9 minutes ago, mgggb said: The majority of everything is average to subpar and it is better to have no relationships than bad ones. You can say that again.
mgggb Posted July 19, 2018 Posted July 19, 2018 1 minute ago, S1988 said: You can say that again. I am being somewhat glib about it, but the truth is the truth is the truth. Finding a woman who is both not a christian and not a statist feels like an impossible task sometimes, but we have the rest of our lives to compromise and surrender our ideals.
smarterthanone Posted July 23, 2018 Author Posted July 23, 2018 I look at it like a game. I try to manipulate people to feel what I want. That keeps my mind at work. Do I want to intimidate or scare them, make them aroused, make them sad... I steer the conversation and change my body movements in order to try to make them how I want them to be. This is how I can enjoy stupid boring conversational topics and fit in with people who like to talk about stupid boring things.
Jsbrads Posted July 31, 2018 Posted July 31, 2018 So intelligent people aren’t dumb, but why might they appear so. Franklin Roosevelt would try and befriend titans of industry and he found them quiet dull. Not because they weren’t brilliant, they were, they were just monomanic, one would know everything about coal, where to buy it, when to buy it, when to transport and how to transport it, but he wouldn’t even read the front page of a newspaper. Another would know nothing about coal, but he knew everything about paper. If you wanted to talk with him about paper, it would be hard to shut him up, but he probably knew as much about Marx as a Socialist millennial of today (nothing). Being intelligent doesn’t make one interesting, I want to be monomanic too, just in aerospace engineering, I want to be great at that and to be great at that, my energy and time has to be consumed by AE so much that I am not as good at other things. My education included morality, history, now I’m learning economics, anthropology... i want to be passing social, but I don’t want to spend hours chatting about frivolous stuff. I waste some time on tv, but I can’t imagine watching a sport, even if I know I will gain friends by doing it. I am intelligent. I have preferences different than yours, so I am not what you want me to be. And I am okay with that.
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