barn Posted June 13, 2018 Posted June 13, 2018 Hi thinkers and alike, A common 'household' name when documentaries and issues around nature are being discussed on a semi-scientific level... Sir David Attenborough Not many knows, that he: 1. Actively works, promotes population control. 2. Uses his influence to diminish Western culture even further (as in: lobbying for higher 'doll' for people choosing not having children, promoting INsufficient population replacement...) ... I stopped following his work a decade or so ago (one sidedness, in other words... activism), was perplexed for the granting of his title, in recent years I recognised his true character (statist, leftist... dooh!, that's repeating)... etc. I don't support him or his work in any fashion or manner, I'm suggesting that everyone should look into what he's been up to before spending a dime on whatever his source of income may be. Be aware, don't fall for the MSM hype, especially given he's now a leading member of: Population Matters (and link) In my mind, not even his 'nature' documentaries are safe for kids (indoctrination from young age). Any good/better alternatives? (Wish Alex Epstein made documentaries. He's been on the show, read his awesome book regarding fossil fuel, enjoyed his many lectures... etc. ) - - - Update - - - (take you there) 1 -> 2
neeeel Posted June 13, 2018 Posted June 13, 2018 11 hours ago, barn said: In my mind, not even his 'nature' documentaries are safe for kids (indoctrination from young age). Im interested to know, how are his nature documentaries indoctrination?
barn Posted June 13, 2018 Author Posted June 13, 2018 20 minutes ago, neeeel said: Im interested to know, how are his nature documentaries indoctrination? That's a good question. If you tune into them, listen to the narration, especially when human impact on nature is being described... the narrow mindedness, that means to me kids are at a very high probability associating human activities = bad, nature = inherently pure and nurturing. What do you think about a person actively engaged in population control/management activism, that it won't seep into whatever work he/she does? (have you considered that?) 1
neeeel Posted June 14, 2018 Posted June 14, 2018 it depends. I havent watched a lot of his videos, just bits here and there, do you have a specific clip that would highlight your concerns?
barn Posted June 14, 2018 Author Posted June 14, 2018 Perhaps it was better if you watched his docus (some at least), I rather not pick fragments, short clips without context... I'm sure you are well-suited to discern on your own if you did see them...I'd assume you'll spot my meaning if you chose to watch any/some entire documentary of his. Also, feel free to present any counter-arguments to my other points if you wanted, when you choose to. - - - /21-08-2018/ Hi Shadow voter, Sure, keep voting secretly. I c u 1
neeeel Posted June 15, 2018 Posted June 15, 2018 what arguments? You havent presented any that I can see, just your opinion that hes promoting population control. in the first post you stated that he was for population control, that he is trying to diminish western culture, that you dont follow him any more, and hes bad for kids, "In your mind" ( your own words). No arguments that I can see, I suppose that "He is for population control, therefore his nature documentaries arent safe for kids" could be an argument, but I already asked for clarification on that one. in the second post you ask we to watch the videos and listen to the narration . No arguments that I can see, although I can see that watching his videos may support your position ( I am not interested in trawling through countless hours of david attenborough films, which is why I asked you for specific videos/clips). In the third post, you tell me to go watch his documentaries. No arguments there either Its totally possible that I missed them, or am too stupid to see them. Perhaps you can present them in argument format in your next post?
barn Posted June 15, 2018 Author Posted June 15, 2018 On 06/15/2018 at 10:49 AM, neeeel said: Its totally possible that I missed them, or am too stupid to see them. Perhaps you can present them in argument format in your next post? Oh, I think you're very smart. No, no no... I can see that miles away. On 06/15/2018 at 10:49 AM, neeeel said: what arguments? You havent presented any that I can see, just your opinion that hes promoting population control. Well, I'm sure you revisited the... On 06/14/2018 at 9:10 PM, neeeel said: I havent watched a lot of his videos, just bits here and there, and compared them against my proposed ideas. Especially with contents such as... On 06/13/2018 at 10:00 PM, barn said: especially when human impact on nature is being described... the narrow mindedness, that means to me kids are at a very high probability associating human activities = bad, nature = inherently pure and nurturing. After which you visited the... On 06/13/2018 at 10:16 AM, barn said: he's now a leading member of: Population Matters (and link) and contemplated what was the entity possibly about, why would S. D. Attenborough want to do activism for them and how that tied into my first (op) post. Is it remotely close to what you have been doing? - - - /21-08-2018/ Hi Shadow voter, Sure, keep voting secretly. I c u 1
neeeel Posted June 15, 2018 Posted June 15, 2018 I am not questioning the idea that he is for population control. I am not even questioning the idea that his views may make their way into his videos. Humans DO have an effect on the environment. If his videos are along the lines of "humans have an effect on the environment, we need to be careful" I dont see a problem If they are along the lines of "You are all horrible people, dont have children, please die" then thats a problem Again, I have no interest in trawling through hours and hours of videos. Why can you not give me an example of a video where you think he is indoctrinating children? When you say "not even his 'nature' documentaries are safe for kids (indoctrination from young age).", what do you mean? All of them? Just his later ones where maybe he has become more left or pro-population control? or what?
barn Posted June 15, 2018 Author Posted June 15, 2018 Maybe you missed my last question, about the DOING part, please answer if you don't mind. On 06/15/2018 at 11:23 AM, barn said: Is it remotely close to what you have been doing? On 06/15/2018 at 10:15 PM, neeeel said: Again, I have no interest in trawling through hours and hours of videos. I never said or suggested nor implied you should do that SO THEREFORE I don't understand why you would be saying that. (It looks as if you're taking what I said out of context, claiming stuff I never said. Is that a fair assessment?) Additionally, it does make me wonder if you had the capacity to examine your own convictions. On 06/15/2018 at 10:15 PM, neeeel said: Why can you not give me an example of a video where you think he is indoctrinating children? I can and can't do many things, same as with you. I can for example see, that what was really simple for me to do on my own is according to your 'ask' requires my input(supposedly) , when I am certain that you are more than capable or 'skilled' enough to do on your own... is it laziness, perhaps? (Don't get me wrong... I'm ok with that, sometimes I can be lazy to do stuff on my own too, though being upfront about it is I think a very good idea.) On 06/15/2018 at 10:15 PM, neeeel said: When you say "not even his 'nature' documentaries are safe for kids (indoctrination from young age).", what do you mean? That he had produced books, narrations, speeches, introductions, part-took in conferences, prize-awards... etc. And I was disappointed to realise many of his visual storytelling was jam-packed with fallacious assumptions, been propagandised to the last fire-ant, even those. (I was silly to expect otherwise, wasn't thinking(logically).) On 06/15/2018 at 10:15 PM, neeeel said: When you say "not even his 'nature' documentaries are safe for kids (indoctrination from young age).", what do you mean? All of them? I can't tell, but I would assume yes. Biology a close interest of mine not surprisingly meant that I have seen quite a boat-load of his work (isn't in quotation because it is still work, whatever it's aim) On 06/15/2018 at 10:15 PM, neeeel said: Just his later ones where maybe he has become more left or pro-population control? or what? That's a good question. I never wondered what was corrupting there or if the increase was gradual or uneven. Don't care about that. Maybe you'll figure it out after doing some research on your own. - - - /18-08-2018 / Hi 'doorbell enthusiast', Don't be afraid to make an argument, arrows aren't. They are however useful in attracting views and making the arguments in the post more visible... thanks for that! 1
neeeel Posted June 15, 2018 Posted June 15, 2018 This is getting ridiculous. Give me ONE episode, or video , of one of his nature documentaries, where you think he is indoctrinating children. Otherwise, I will assume you mean them all. In which case, I will pick one at random, and if theres nothing in there, I will know I can discard your ideas in this thread. I have no problem watching an episode for myself. It just seems much simpler for you to tell me a relevant episode to watch. You must have one, seeing as you have come up with this thread and your opinions about his nature documentaries. Why is it so hard for you just to link it? I dont appreciate the veiled insults or slurs.
barn Posted June 15, 2018 Author Posted June 15, 2018 On 06/15/2018 at 10:51 PM, neeeel said: This is getting ridiculous. Give me ONE episode, or video , of one of his nature documentaries, where you think he is indoctrinating children. Otherwise, I will assume you mean them all. In which case, I will pick one at random, and if theres nothing in there, I will know I can discard your ideas in this thread. Please, be my guest and choose the most preferable option you deem appropriate. (I think that's a great idea.) On 06/15/2018 at 10:51 PM, neeeel said: I have no problem watching an episode for myself. It just seems much simpler for you to tell me a relevant episode to watch. I understand. No, I don't want to do that. (*3) If you can do it, I don't think I should. On 06/15/2018 at 10:51 PM, neeeel said: You must have one, seeing as you have come up with this thread and your opinions about his nature documentaries. Why is it so hard for you just to link it? Please, don’t manipulate. On 06/15/2018 at 10:51 PM, neeeel said: I dont appreciate the veiled insults or slurs. Were you going to say something objectively true here but forgot/omitted your evidence? (I'd like to think you forgot but don't want to assume stuff, so I ask you.) Sorry, but I noticed you've STILL NOT answered these (3q. -s). I'm ok with you declining but it is only fair if I confirm whether you willfully choose not to. (I won't ask again) The first On 06/15/2018 at 10:40 PM, barn said: Maybe you missed my last question, about the DOING part, please answer if you don't mind. On 06/15/2018 at 11:23 AM, barn said: Is it remotely close to what you have been doing? The second On 06/15/2018 at 10:40 PM, barn said: On 06/15/2018 at 10:15 PM, neeeel said: Again, I have no interest in trawling through hours and hours of videos. I never said or suggested nor implied you should do that SO THEREFORE I don't understand why you would be saying that. (It looks as if you're taking what I said out of context, claiming stuff I never said. Is that a fair assessment?) Additionally, it does make me wonder if you had the capacity to examine your own convictions. The third On 06/15/2018 at 10:40 PM, barn said: On 06/15/2018 at 10:15 PM, neeeel said: Why can you not give me an example of a video where you think he is indoctrinating children? I can and can't do many things, same as with you. I can for example see, that what was really simple for me to do on my own is according to your 'ask' requires my input(supposedly) , when I am certain that you are more than capable or 'skilled' enough to do on your own... is it laziness, perhaps? (Don't get me wrong... I'm ok with that, sometimes I can be lazy to do stuff on my own too, though being upfront about it is I think a very good idea.) - - - /18-08-2018 / Hi 'doorbell enthusiast', Don't be afraid to make an argument, arrows aren't. They are however useful in attracting views and making the arguments in the post more visible... thanks for that! 1
neeeel Posted June 15, 2018 Posted June 15, 2018 Quote Please, don’t manipulate How is that manipulation? How is it so hard to just link a fucking epsiode? Quote Were you going to say something objectively true here but forgot/omitted your evidence? Quote Oh, I think you're very smart. No, no no... I can see that miles away. Quote Additionally, it does make me wonder if you had the capacity to examine your own convictions. Quote is it laziness, perhaps? Quote Please, don’t manipulate. Quote It looks as if you're taking what I said out of context, claiming stuff I never said I will answer your questions when you answer mine.
barn Posted June 15, 2018 Author Posted June 15, 2018 On 06/15/2018 at 11:27 PM, neeeel said: I will answer your questions when you answer mine. Hahaha, sorry but I just thought that was one of the least expected response I've ever seen here on the boards. (not an argument, only been here for a few years so far... thought that was 'something') Well, sure. I'll always support you in making your choices on your own, even so if I think you are the only one loosing out by not checking things. But that's ok, you get what you pay for. (except where there's coercion, so glad I can't possibly do but just entice/share, use words and read others who mostly DO research things) Until you took a 'pro-active, checking things' approach, would you mind steering clear of my threads? Do as you wish but I don't enjoy the format nor the content you are producing, AS OF NOW) (I said I wouldn't repeat myself so if you want more clarification, I recommend you revisit the earlier posts. Re-reading my references to your comments should be straightforward enough as I tried to quote accurately and plentiful.) Otherwise, take it easy and have a good one! - - - /18-08-2018 / Hi 'doorbell enthusiast', Don't be afraid to make an argument, arrows aren't. They are however useful in attracting views and making the arguments in the post more visible... thanks for that! 1
neeeel Posted June 16, 2018 Posted June 16, 2018 I never said I wasnt going to check things. In fact, I have made it clear that I want to check things, thats why I entered the thread in the first place. You made an assertion that david attenborough was indoctrinating kids in his nature videos. I asked for evidence in the form of a video. You have constantly refused to provide that. So, as I said, I will just choose a random video, and assume that you meant every single video. As for steering clear of your threads, I will post where I have questions, or want to challenge assertions. You dont get to say where I post.
neeeel Posted June 16, 2018 Posted June 16, 2018 I watched this video I didnt hear anything remotely like indoctrination, or anything about population control. If you arent going to give a specific example, I can conclude that your premise is false.
barn Posted June 17, 2018 Author Posted June 17, 2018 Erm... Maybe you just missed my point entirely or willfully ignored it. On 06/16/2018 at 9:38 PM, neeeel said: I watched this video [Vid] - David Attenborough's Tasmania I didnt hear anything remotely like indoctrination, or anything about population control. If you arent going to give a specific example, I can conclude that your premise is false. 'Interesting' choice of yours. Completely misses my point but I can't say I was surprised, given how you took what I had said out of context earlier on, here: On 06/15/2018 at 10:40 PM, barn said: On 06/15/2018 at 10:15 PM, neeeel said: Again, I have no interest in trawling through hours and hours of videos. I never said or suggested nor implied you should do that SO THEREFORE I don't understand why you would be saying that. (It looks as if you're taking what I said out of context, claiming stuff I never said. Is that a fair assessment?) Additionally, it does make me wonder if you had the capacity to examine your own convictions. A brief summary OF YOUR CHOOSING: Quote About the documentary, from here: (, nice visuals btw) " Attenborough narrates the story of a vast island wilderness - ancient forests, pristine rivers & spectacular coastline. Seasons vary from dry heat, strong winds & cold bringing wombats, wallabies & platypus out in daylight. " Probably you remember asking me: On 06/13/2018 at 9:34 PM, neeeel said: On 06/13/2018 at 10:16 AM, barn said: In my mind, not even his 'nature' documentaries are safe for kids (indoctrination from young age). Im interested to know, how are his nature documentaries indoctrination? To which I responded: On 06/13/2018 at 10:00 PM, barn said: That's a good question. If you tune into them, listen to the narration, especially when human impact on nature is being described... the narrow mindedness, that means to me kids are at a very high probability associating human activities = bad, nature = inherently pure and nurturing. What do you think about a person actively engaged in population control/management activism, that it won't seep into whatever work he/she does? (have you considered that?) So your choosing ( Tasmania, the video you linked) has no "human impact being described during the narration" (???), what a surprise you haven't heard anything about that... Analogous to -> ' I couldn't find any food at the hardware store! ' <- Well, imagine my shock! This just further adds to my suspicion that the way you argue is less than preferable by intelectually honest standards. ( i. e. - You, choosing a video not discussing human impact, different than what I had previously highlighted to you, then taking things out of context, stating things I never stated... not good.) I ask you for the second time: On 06/15/2018 at 11:55 PM, barn said: Until you took a 'pro-active, checking things' approach, would you mind steering clear of my threads? Do as you wish but I don't enjoy the format nor the content you are producing, AS OF NOW) @neeeel, I ask you, don't post on my threads! I don't enjoy the format nor the content you are producing, AS OF NOW! - - - /21-08-2018/ Hi Shadow voter, Sure, keep voting secretly. I c u 1
neeeel Posted June 19, 2018 Posted June 19, 2018 again, you dont get to say what threads I do or dont post on. I told you, if you dont give me a specific link, the only choice I have is to choose a random video. Which i did. There was nothing indoctrinating in there, so I can conclude that you are mistaken Are you claiming that that isnt a david attenborough nature documentary?
barn Posted June 20, 2018 Author Posted June 20, 2018 I highlighted the parts that you deliberately took out of context, (again) On 06/15/2018 at 11:55 PM, barn said: Until you took a 'pro-active, checking things' approach, would you mind steering clear of my threads? Do as you wish but I don't enjoy the format nor the content you are producing, AS OF NOW) On 06/16/2018 at 8:13 AM, neeeel said: You dont get to say where I post. On 06/19/2018 at 7:31 PM, neeeel said: again, you dont get to say what threads I do or dont post on. hoping it's easier for you to see why I don't think you picking randomly is making me see you less intellectually dishonest On 06/17/2018 at 11:07 PM, barn said: my suspicion that the way you argue is less than preferable by intelectually honest standards. and you even admit to it.... On 06/19/2018 at 7:31 PM, neeeel said: I told you, if you dont give me a specific link, the only choice I have is to choose a random video. Which i did. Mustering up my remaining scraps of good-will (i.e - you could improve) for now, maybe transmitting something constructive as a parting gift... This looks like, it's been happening for you for a while... I estimate it's a pattern in your way of thinking, how you choose to approach arguments time and time again, jump to conclusions prematurely... hopefully the references help you, they sure aided me seeing clearer. or this (more recent, akin to my observations, similar patterns mentioned by someone else) Otherwise, take it easy (I'll) - - - /21-08-2018/ Hi Shadow voter, Sure, keep voting secretly. I c u 1
ofd Posted June 20, 2018 Posted June 20, 2018 Is it so hard to say that you can't point to a specific instance that verifies your claim?
neeeel Posted June 20, 2018 Posted June 20, 2018 3 hours ago, barn said: I highlighted the parts that you deliberately took out of context, (again) hoping it's easier for you to see why I don't think you picking randomly is making me see you less intellectually dishonest and you even admit to it.... Mustering up my remaining scraps of good-will (i.e - you could improve) for now, maybe transmitting something constructive as a parting gift... This looks like, it's been happening for you for a while... I estimate it's a pattern in your way of thinking, how you choose to approach arguments time and time again, jump to conclusions prematurely... hopefully the references help you, they sure aided me seeing clearer. or this (more recent, akin to my observations, similar patterns mentioned by someone else) Otherwise, take it easy (I'll) Im not sure what those threads are supposed to show? You both used the same circular argument for free will. What has that do do with this thread, and you refusing to link to a video?
barn Posted June 20, 2018 Author Posted June 20, 2018 Hahaha... (imagine my 'surprise',... examples provided below) On 06/20/2018 at 8:20 AM, ofd said: Is it so hard to say that you can't point to a specific instance that verifies your claim? 1st, please don't try to manipulate, won't work. (btw, if you are interested, I had written to a near identical content earlier... maybe you missed it, ignored it ... it looks as if it's a pattern emerging from you) 2nd, due to personal experience with you, I don't see the value in ... i.e. - you saying how much you would appreciate something and then you don't even bother replying about it, not even when I called your attention about it... I think that's inconsistent of you, to put it gently... not good. Based on the assumption that you read what people respond to you. (in my example, on that post, twice) 3rd, I'd provided (probably you missed/ignored that too... seemingly there's a pattern, (yet again)... piling evidence) On 06/13/2018 at 10:00 PM, barn said: listen to the narration, especially when human impact on nature is being described... the narrow mindedness, that means to me kids are at a very high probability associating human activities = bad, nature = inherently pure and nurturing. I'm sure you are well-suited to discern on your own. There are a few examples I can think of (haven't seen all of them documentaries) , easy to find if you actually want to. Unlike finding what you asked me in another thread; the one that you haven't acknowledged still...not good. (Had your interaction been constructive, probably my response would have been quite different. Not that you have to, I'm just outlining my preferences... for the future also. It's up to you how you 'take it'.) I hope that helps you see my meaning better (not sure if I can or want to take more time on it). You're a smart person, I'm sure you can 'get it', if you choose to. - - - /21-08-2018/ Hi Shadow voter, Sure, keep voting secretly. I c u 1
ofd Posted June 22, 2018 Posted June 22, 2018 Quote 1st, please don't try to manipulate, won't work. Here is how an argument works: You make a claim and provide evidence. The latter part is missing. You could have spent the time you invested in replying by having a look at his videos and provides example that support your thesis. Since you did not I have to assume that there are none and that you made it up.
A4E Posted August 11, 2018 Posted August 11, 2018 When younger, I watched probably all of them, and the general feeling I had is that nature is awesome and cool and nice... and at the end of about half of the documentaries, humans are mentioned as the impending threat to it all. Always left me with a mild distaste for humans. So I initially agree with OP that there is some camouflaged "We need to take control of humans to save the planet" propaganda. I don't have time to try to find evidence, just sharing my opinion.
barn Posted August 11, 2018 Author Posted August 11, 2018 Sir David Attenborough (State Of The Planet) “ We now know that we are seriously damaging biodiversity and there is a risk that the world we hand on to our next generation will be less rich, poorer in variety than the one we inherited. Why is it that the activities of our one species, aiming at no more than living in reasonable comfort and avoiding hunger, should cause such devastation on the rest of the natural world? ” 1
ticketyboo Posted August 18, 2018 Posted August 18, 2018 On 6/17/2018 at 2:07 PM, barn said: So your choosing ( Tasmania, the video you linked) has no "human impact being described during the narration" (???), what a surprise you haven't heard anything about that... Analogous to -> ' I couldn't find any food at the hardware store! ' <- Well, imagine my shock! This just further adds to my suspicion that the way you argue is less than preferable by intelectually honest standards. ( i. e. - You, choosing a video not discussing human impact, different than what I had previously highlighted to you, then taking things out of context, stating things I never stated... not good.) barn is the poster boy for passive aggressiveness: Quote 2. Subtle insults. From Google (emphasis added): Quote of or denoting a type of behavior or personality characterized by indirect resistance to the demands of others and an avoidance of direct confrontation, as in procrastinating, pouting, or misplacing important materials. Reminder of barn's quote: "This just further adds to my suspicion that the way you argue is less than preferable by intelectually honest standards." From the Guidelines for this forum: Quote Passive aggressive posts are strongly discouraged. If you don't know what passive aggression is, please research the term before posting. Consider this a case study in making an argument. Also from the Guidelines: Quote Remember, if you insult someone's intelligence or integrity, but continue to debate with him, you are escalating for no reason whatsoever. If you truly believe that someone is dumb, or dishonest, it makes no sense to debate him. This is why I am addressing everyone in this thread except for barn.
barn Posted August 18, 2018 Author Posted August 18, 2018 On 08/18/2018 at 10:41 AM, ticketyboo said: This is why I am addressing everyone in this thread except for barn. I think, what you're doing is cowardly but actually it's good, that occasionally, at least you quote me correctly... so thanks for that. Please, when you do, keep quoting me correctly. Otherwise, keep going! - - - /19-08-2018/ Hi 'doorbell enthusiast' (voter), Thanks for emphasising this post, it's what I was hoping to demonstrate. Not making any argument just down-voting from the shadows is cowardly. So yeah, thanks 2
ticketyboo Posted August 19, 2018 Posted August 19, 2018 On 8/18/2018 at 3:44 AM, barn said: I think, what you're doing is cowardly but actually it's good, that occasionally, at least you quote me correctly... so thanks for that. Please, when you do, keep quoting me correctly. Otherwise, keep going! "cowardly but actually it's good" barn responds to an argument about passive aggressive behavior with more passive aggressiveness. He is unable to communicate in any other way. It's actually quite funny. Poster boy for passive aggressiveness.
barn Posted August 19, 2018 Author Posted August 19, 2018 On 08/19/2018 at 10:43 PM, ticketyboo said: "cowardly but actually it's good" barn responds to an argument about passive aggressive behavior with more passive aggressiveness. He is unable to communicate in any other way. It's actually quite funny. Poster boy for passive aggressiveness. Thanks, for you showing in written form what it looks like (an example) to act cowardly. Keep going, it's an advantage to have a demonstration so soon after I had pointed it out. Plus, easier to quote since you laid it out. - - - /21-08-2018/ Hi Shadow voter, Few more cowardly down-votes... exactly what I mean. Your choice, thanks. 1
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