[Podcast] 4139 Vag!na F!reworks - Call In Show - July 4th, 2018

[Freedomain]

Question 1: [2:07] – “I fall into a minority group of fathers that have full custody of their child. I've struggled with the concept that my daughter not having a mother in her life, will have some traumatic effects to her lifestyle choices as she gets older. How can I improve as a father to help her understand the values she should hold as a woman, and where should I draw the line with discipline in regards to her step mother, as I feel she needs a strong mother figure in her life to compensate for her lack of maternal mother.”

Question 2: [29:57] – “I am a white male, 38, and my former boss, a Chinese woman I joined the company with, verbalized, at least once, her agenda to “fix” the department by bringing in more Chinese people, another comment was that I don’t fit the stereotype of a white person, because I am smart. She slowly started taking action in the department to replace non-Chinese people with Chinese people, and soon I too was in the cross hairs. She was initially successful, 50% of the hires were Chinese, replacing all non-Chinese, until I took some measured strategic actions and now she is no longer at our company. The questions is can these strategies be generalized for others to use and to be used in other scenarios?”

Question 3: [1:04:05] – “My mother had a very unexpected death after her birthday due to a heart attack. My parents had just celebrated their 32 anniversary and were high school sweethearts. Weeks after my mom’s death, a woman contacted my dad (separated, but still married), and they started dating. Next thing you know, she’s living with my dad, on unemployment, and they’re getting married. My mom had promised me a lot before she passed and now it’s all gone down the drain and this random woman gets to benefit from the life my parents worked so hard for. No prenup, or anything. We need your help because my dad won’t listen to anyone and is slowly cutting out family.”

Question 4: [2:42:19] – “I have lived in London for nearly 17 years. You would be hard-pressed to find a bigger fan of what was the greatest city in the world! In recent years especially since in investment of Sadiq Khan as the most ineffectual and ideologically demented Mayor of this city, I am now refusing to pay council tax. I voted for Brexit and proudly proclaimed that amongst my peers, I support Trump and I am fed up of the socialistic dictatorship that this country has become particularly under the even more disastrous stewardship of Theresa May. I am calling in to find out how I can stand up to the authorities and argue my case that I do not need to pay council tax when my culture is being stolen from me right under my eyes.”

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[cyberforester]

Stefan, I think you might have missed the mark a bit in your discussion with Ashley and Michael.   When Ashley described what went on after her mother died mirrored exactly what my siblings and I went through with our Dad after our mother died - although there was a 3 year span between mum's death and dad remarrying. 

I am one of 5 and our family was very close and I would say we all had good relationships with both our dad and mum.  Mum died of cancer after a 2 year illness.   Dad was grief stricken.  He spent 2 to 3 years in misery.   Then he started seeking out a new relationship.   The woman "he chose" was totally unlike mum - immodest, not smart, and very, very possessive.   Soon after we met her we saw her darker side - Dad was oblivious to this.   One of my brothers, one of my sisters and I all had children at this stage.  Dad doted on his grand children.  Immediately his new fiance drove a wedge into our relationships, claiming to Dad that we were all unwelcoming and not accepting of her.   The two siblings without children were, by contrast, in her eyes, wonderful (although we know they held the same views of this new woman as the other 3).   

For Dad's sake we initially reserved judgment, but when they got engaged my brothers tried to reason with Dad - not to not re-marry - but to get some councelling and work out some of the differences.  Heedless of the suggestions they got married.  We spent the next 19 years with very little contact with Dad.  After any contact we had with Dad there would be accusations of some misdemeanour or another.     Our children grew up barely knowing their grandfather.   Dad died about 4 years ago, and in the weeks after his death his widow has gyped us out of what Dad had put in his will, she made sure we were not allowed to be involved in the funeral.

Many people have commented to us that they would never have imagined Dad would have taken this course.  He so loved his children and his grand children, but for the "love of a woman" he was prepared to go along with her manipulation lies and deceit.  

As I listened to you talking with Ashley I thought "Stefan just doesn't get it".   This new woman in the Dad's life has turned his affections.  It happens and it is quite inexplicable how or why a father could do this.

[barn]

Hi @cyberforester

[Podcast] 4139 - Question 3: [1:04 :05]

I'm very sorry, that sounds like you and your siblings wished things were different.

It's totally understandable if my question isn't welcome by you, I saw your post was aimed at Stefan Molyneux. However if you don't mind me asking...

'Actions speak louder than words.'

1 hour ago, cyberforester said:

Many people have commented to us that they would never have imagined Dad would have taken this course.  He so loved his children and his grand children, but for the "love of a woman" he was prepared to go along with her manipulation lies and deceit.   

If he "so loved his children and his grand children" but in action expressed the diametrically opposite, is it possible that your definition of love is different from what would mean a person caring truly for someone? I'm sorry but I can't get past this and see it sticking out, a contradiction where two opposite things are being called the same thing. As in: 'a lush desert'.

(Again, please accept my sympathies for the hardships your father's choices caused for you and your families.)

Barnsley

[cyberforester]

Hi Barnsley,  I definitely know that Dad loved his children and grand children.   Growing up we all had a great relationship with each of our parents.  Dad was very involved in our lives and I am pretty sure my siblings (and our spouses - especially those who knew Mum) would back me up on this.   We can only think that Dad was utterly besotted and desperate to prove his love for his new wife.   One thing that is a factor in this is that she was a divorcee and I suspect that Dad was worried that "if she had done it before, she could do it again".  Dad had never had to worry about that with Mum, as they were totally committed to working on their marriage until death

[barn]

3 hours ago, cyberforester said:

Hi Barnsley,  I definitely know that Dad loved his children and grand children.   Growing up we all had a great relationship with each of our parents.  Dad was very involved in our lives and I am pretty sure my siblings (and our spouses - especially those who knew Mum) would back me up on this. 

Hi there,

First off, your knowledge of your family definitely trumps mine, I'm operating from a different perspective totally so it's not a surprise to me if you'll correct me on things... I even embrace it, feel free to present any updates, addition.

3 hours ago, cyberforester said:

We can only think that Dad was utterly besotted and desperate to prove his love for his new wife. 

From my read (here + previous post) , I can see two things here:

A form of passivity as for your Dad's agency, or lack of... (this is btw the meat of my conundrum) and the high probability of his dependency in the new relationship.

If what I'm seeing is most likely accurate, why do you think He has chosen a woman whom he'd be acting as such? (As in: What's in it for him, the 'benefit' that outweighs other types of women more, so he'd settled with her?)

The second is, had he been an assertive type of a person with your mother (rest in peace) or had he more often than not deferred to her will as your memories go? (As in: a really easy-going personality, conflict avoidant, seldom 'goes against the grain', feels really bad if falls short on outside expectations?)

3 hours ago, cyberforester said:

One thing that is a factor in this is that she was a divorcee and I suspect that Dad was worried that "if she had done it before, she could do it again". 

So, this is a bit off topic but not that much I could completely discard it...

Let's just say I was close to initiating a relationship with someone who'd done some 'pretty' hair-raising stuff before and the only upside about it was the way it was revealed to me, plus the evident mutual attraction... nevertheless, in order to staying safe, I decided against it (I observed, cracked my head hard and realised... lack of active pursuit in coming to terms with the depths of its implications on the person's part, I realised after a while, was missing in its desirable proportions for the person... even so, it was a challenge as my attraction was competing against my seeking for 'seeing the real person'... if you get my meaning. I never repented. Quite the opposite.)

This is particularly why I'm confidently willing to go out on a limb and say...

Your Dad went into the relationship with the knowledge of of a huge, visible 'red flag'. Is that correct?

[cyberforester]

Dad was definitely not "passive" in his relationship with Mum.   They had quite robust discussions on topics at various times that I can remember - the arguments - not the topic of the argument.   But there was never any lasting resentment.   They could have an argument one day and the very next day would have loyally defended the other to the death.  

I think you are right that Dad was aware of the "red flag" but went ahead in spite of it.   My siblings and I have speculated that he saw this woman as "damaged goods" and a "project" for him to fix.  (Dad was a very capable handyman and was always fixing something).  We think he was either ever hopeful he could get the job done or was resigned to the realisation that it was a hopeless case when he died.

[barn]

28 minutes ago, cyberforester said:

Dad was definitely not "passive" in his relationship with Mum.   They had quite robust discussions on topics at various times that I can remember - the arguments - not the topic of the argument.   But there was never any lasting resentment.   They could have an argument one day and the very next day would have loyally defended the other to the death.   

All-right, word taken.

29 minutes ago, cyberforester said:

I think you are right that Dad was aware of the "red flag" but went ahead in spite of it.   My siblings and I have speculated that he saw this woman as "damaged goods" and a "project" for him to fix.  (Dad was a very capable handyman and was always fixing something).  We think he was either ever hopeful he could get the job done or was resigned to the realisation that it was a hopeless case when he died. 

Ouch.

(Oh dear, this is a hard one to ask...sorry, but I think I should ask it even if it's difficult, even if I think I can empathise to a certain degree & have sympathy for you and your families... as much as from my side it is possible.)

Sorry, doesn't that mean (logically following), that others in his mind must have been at a lower priority when he decided to introduce that 'instability' into the family dynamics?

That it was worth it for him to place others in contact with the possibility of danger as his own expected reward was/is still more important for him?

Has anyone pointed it out to him, that he's clearly not fixing things for the people in the family? (based on the developments, majority of the family in disagreement with him)

[cyberforester]

As I said in my inital post, Dad died 4 years ago, so there is no opportunity for him or us to rectify what went on for 19 years.  

What did Dad put above his family?  That sense of worth that he could "fix" someone who was "broken".   Actually, he did actually achieve something significant in his relationship.   His wife had 3 of her own children and the youngest was 12 when they remarried, so lived with them until she left home in her late teens or early twenties.   She credits Dad with having been the best influence on her life and character.  She regards herself as being closer to my siblings and myself than she does to her mother - who she knows is "a piece of work".   From that perspective, Dad did achieve soemthing worthwhile even if it was at the expense of his relatonship with us and we are sure at some expense to his own happiness.

With regard to my original comment, I think there may have been some element of this in what Ashley's own father was going through.   I don't think this "uncharacteristic behaviour" is as infrequent as Stef seems to believe it is.

[barn]

 

15 minutes ago, cyberforester said:

As I said in my inital post, Dad died 4 years ago, so there is no opportunity for him or us to rectify what went on for 19 years.   

I'm so sorry, what an amateur mistake of me having mis-interpreted it as only your Mum having passed away... My apologies for that oversight on my part, sorry. I should read you more carefully.

20 minutes ago, cyberforester said:

What did Dad put above his family?  That sense of worth that he could "fix" someone who was "broken".

 

20 minutes ago, cyberforester said:

From that perspective, Dad did achieve something worthwhile even if it was at the expense of his relatonship with us and we are sure at some expense to his own happiness. 

Thanks for hashing it out.

I think you can identify what I was hoping to point out to you. (highlighted words, read together)

Not sure if you are 'seeing' it or why my view of it is so different... dunno.

26 minutes ago, cyberforester said:

With regard to my original comment, I think there may have been some element of this in what Ashley's own father was going through. 

I agree, thought similarly. (not that it means anything)

27 minutes ago, cyberforester said:

  I don't think this "uncharacteristic behaviour" is as infrequent as Stef seems to believe it is. 

Ouu... it would be so good (and kind of you) if you could narrow down the time frame  it was mentioned... context 'n all, you know... (otherwise I would have to seek for it manually myself to better understand the point you're making here. Could you help me find the part?)

[cyberforester]

It wasn't so much anything specific that Stef said as his general tenor and the conversation as a whole.  

[barn]

4 minutes ago, cyberforester said:

It wasn't so much anything specific that Stef said as his general tenor and the conversation as a whole.  

I see. A subjective assertion.

(nothing wrong with that, I was hoping it was something else... sorry, don't know what to say about it.)