<20% Europeans -> USA (? how, when)

[barn]

Hi thinkers and alike,

The EU is toast (imho), too late & too little. (bleeding out, civil wars inevitable in my estimation... there'd have to be a great enough number of nations WITHIN the EU to enact mutiny, but that'd also include many of those nations going against their self interest... very, reeealy hard to even say that it is a possibility... so, I rather discarded its puny likelihood)

Has anyone seen any plans drawn up by sympathetic nations to welcome those in hopes of finding less feudalism/deepstate-globalist environments ? (I wouldn't be surprised if it was already in the making, filtering for skills and genome.) Russians are seemingly doing something about the situation in South Africa but I'm less than convinced many would ever consider it other than a last resort.

[mgggb]

On 7/23/2018 at 9:31 AM, barn said:

Hi thinkers and alike,

The EU is toast (imho), too late & too little. (bleeding out, civil wars inevitable in my estimation... there'd have to be a great enough number of nations WITHIN the EU to enact mutiny, but that'd also include many of those nations going against their self interest... very, reeealy hard to even say that it is a possibility... so, I rather discarded its puny likelihood)

Has anyone seen any plans drawn up by sympathetic nations to welcome those in hopes of finding less feudalism/deepstate-globalist environments ? (I wouldn't be surprised if it was already in the making, filtering for skills and genome.) Russians are seemingly doing something about the situation in South Africa but I'm less than convinced many would ever consider it other than a last resort.

Is it really a good idea to take in European refugees? Europe is the way it is because of Europeans. Why should we bring that here?

[barn]

52 minutes ago, mgggb said:

Is it really a good idea to take in European refugees? Europe is the way it is because of Europeans. Why should we bring that here?

I think that's fair and logical to ask.

Then again, "is it really a good idea to take in" South African refugees? The way South Africa is... (well, partly at least...) Or am I not drawing a true parallel, are the two completely different?

Also, it isn't likely bringing "that here" because of the Constitution and its protective powers (until it lasted), right?!

Perhaps you could define "that" more?

Lastly, probably you've noticed in the title the "<20% Europeans" with which I was approximating the part of the population that would be welcomed with broad arms by the States, should a mass departure occurred from Europe (obviously, there'd have to be a vetting / 'grading' system in place).

+1: I was wondering... What percentage of the North Americans came from Europe originally? Did they leave Europe back in the day to seek more freedom mainly?

[Siegfried von Walheim]

All this running away will result in the same end that befell the Amerindians when they continually sold out their descendants and hid out in the expansive West. Eventually the West ran out, and so did they. 

Europe's going to be fine. Sure, they might have some rough patches, maybe even a few wars, but they'll be fine. They've been fine for at least 5,000 years, I'm sure they'll be fine for another 5,000. 

You might not like it, but feudalism is what succeeded republicanism historically (in Europe). The Feudal Monarchy is progressive; the Republic is regressive. And while you might not have meant it literally, it's a possible future. More likely there will be petty dictatorships though. Once they've fallen, they may morph into feudal states however and return to law and order in doing so.

[Siegfried von Walheim]

2 minutes ago, barn said:

Lastly, probably you've noticed in the title the "<20% Europeans" with which I was approximating the part of the population that would be welcomed with broad arms by the States, should a mass departure occurred from Europe (obviously, there'd have to be a vetting / 'grading' system in place).

I don't think America/Russia would benefit from importing the most cowardly 20% of Europeans...

...However Europe might benefit. 

I'd rather not play theoretical-God though, because neither you nor I can really be sure what'll happen so we might as well just accept the infinite possibilities and tend to our own gardens.

[mgggb]

On 7/31/2018 at 3:19 PM, barn said:

I think that's fair and logical to ask.

Then again, "is it really a good idea to take in" South African refugees? The way South Africa is... (well, partly at least...) Or am I not drawing a true parallel, are the two completely different?

Also, it isn't likely bringing "that here" because of the Constitution and its protective powers (until it lasted), right?!

Perhaps you could define "that" more?

Lastly, probably you've noticed in the title the "<20% Europeans" with which I was approximating the part of the population that would be welcomed with broad arms by the States, should a mass departure occurred from Europe (obviously, there'd have to be a vetting / 'grading' system in place).

+1: I was wondering... What percentage of the North Americans came from Europe originally? Did they leave Europe back in the day to seek more freedom mainly?

There's no good way to ideologically vet people coming in, so I don't think it is possible to take only the good ones. But when things start going south, my guess is that the people fleeing will be the same ones who voted for these catastrophes. Anyone with any sense and two nickles to rub together got out of Europe/SA a long time ago. So by "that" I mean leftism. The constitution only exists as a protection so long as people want it to, so will millions of more potential leftists I don't see it lasting for very long.

[barn]

2 hours ago, mgggb said:

There's no good way to ideologically vet people coming in, so I don't think it is possible to take only the good ones.

Interesting. Why do you think that was? How do you know/have you assessed that?

This is a tad bit offshoot, still kinda relevant:

Would you say that the current efforts in increasing the effectiveness of vetting to the USA (no 'terror-badies' allowed) is neither going to result in the hoped changes, or that it's just imperfect and it will achieve a large enough success?

2 hours ago, mgggb said:

But when things start going south, my guess is that the people fleeing will be the same ones who voted for these catastrophes.

Dunno. I sorta think, all that think that would be able to make a better living elsewhere will try, be it someone who is a statist to the gifted... it's just that not all will be able to stay elsewhere for various reasons (can't adapt, homesick, rejected... etc)

btw... That's why I asked (it's ok) about the European ancestry regarding the USA.

2 hours ago, mgggb said:

Anyone with any sense and two nickles to rub together got out of Europe/SA a long time ago. So by "that" I mean leftism.

This is also interesting. Again, I would be curious to know, how have you concluded / verified it?

2 hours ago, mgggb said:

The constitution only exists as a protection so long as people want it to, [...] 

True. (As in: created, sustained by the will of the people from the land)

2 hours ago, mgggb said:

so will millions of more potential leftists I don't see it lasting for very long. 

This, I also believe to be correct (if I followed your line of thought correctly). Hence the problem currently in the US and other nations regarding population replacement, the current signs, and its very likely, much greater consequences.

Would you say, that it was easier to heal a 'recently' fallen ill patient with a still working immune system in a hospital, or a person that has never been very strong and is currently lacking access to proper health care system?

[M.2]

On ‎2018‎-‎07‎-‎23 at 3:31 PM, barn said:

The EU is toast (imho), too late & too little. (bleeding out, civil wars inevitable in my estimation… 

What makes that your estimation?

Quote

there'd have to be a great enough number of nations WITHIN the EU to enact mutiny, but that'd also include many of those nations going against their self interest... very, reeealy hard to even say that it is a possibility... so, I rather discarded its puny likelihood)

Are you talking about the Visegrad4+1? Poland and Hungary have already been triggered Article7 against due to their insubordination. I would count that as a rebellion.

Quote

Has anyone seen any plans drawn up by sympathetic nations to welcome those in hopes of finding less feudalism/deepstate-globalist environments ? (I wouldn't be surprised if it was already in the making, filtering for skills and genome.)

Yes, some sympathetic countries have been drawing up plans to accept Western European refugees. In fact, the unofficial flight to the East has already commenced, and will only be increasing in the future.

Quote

Russians are seemingly doing something about the situation in South Africa but I'm less than convinced many would ever consider it other than a last resort.

More than 80 thousand white South Africans have left the country just last year. Most to other commonwealth nations, but another lot to other countries that would rather not draw undesirable media attention to themselves by advertising their programmes. I am not authorised to say who these prudent nations are, but you will no doubt learn about them after the new land reforms are implemented at the end of August. That's when they will have to crank up the scale of these evacuation programmes, and there won't be any hiding it then.

[mgggb]

5 hours ago, barn said:

Interesting. Why do you think that was? How do you know/have you assessed that?

This is a tad bit offshoot, still kinda relevant:

Would you say that the current efforts in increasing the effectiveness of vetting to the USA (no 'terror-badies' allowed) is neither going to result in the hoped changes, or that it's just imperfect and it will achieve a large enough success?

It's mostly just a political buzzword imo. The travel ban is what's most effective, not extreme vetting, because people can just lie.

5 hours ago, barn said:

Dunno. I sorta think, all that think that would be able to make a better living elsewhere will try, be it someone who is a statist to the gifted... it's just that not all will be able to stay elsewhere for various reasons (can't adapt, homesick, rejected... etc)

btw... That's why I asked (it's ok) about the European ancestry regarding the USA.

I'm not sure it really matters if they want a better life. Most political parties in europe make Sanders look like Rothbard. It doesn't matter to me if someone is ethnically european if they're going to bring their european politics with them and influence things here.

5 hours ago, barn said:

This is also interesting. Again, I would be curious to know, how have you concluded / verified it

No way to verify it, but if I was in those places I would have gotten out asap. My assumption is that people who stayed had no problems when policies were being implemented but want out because it's gone horribly, predictably, wrong.

5 hours ago, barn said:

This, I also believe to be correct (if I followed your line of thought correctly). Hence the problem currently in the US and other nations regarding population replacement, the current signs, and its very likely, much greater consequences.

Would you say, that it was easier to heal a 'recently' fallen ill patient with a still working immune system in a hospital, or a person that has never been very strong and is currently lacking access to proper health care system?

The only way most europeans can be rehabilitated is by admitting the intrinsic failures and immorality of their ideologies. Short of that, the best thing that can happen is that their suffering serves as a warning to others. If people refuse to admit their causal role in what's happening in europe, then they're a lost cause and it will only hurt us by bringing them here.

To be clear, I'm not saying that there is no one in europe worth saving, but my concern is that they are few and far between and it would be neigh impossible to sort them out from the undeserving ones. Do you think there is a way to reasonably do so?

[barn]

Hi Mishi2 or @M.2

Long time no see...

I'm afraid, before all, I'd like to return to this post first (if you also were interested)

, and then we'll see...

[M.2]

7 hours ago, barn said:

Hi Mishi2 or @M.2

Long time no see... I'm afraid, before all, I'd like to return to this post first (if you also were interested)

I'm good, thanks. I'm more passive than active these days.

[barn]

2 hours ago, M.2 said:

I'm good, thanks. I'm more passive than active these days.

Sure, I respect your choice.

In that case, I'm not motivated to respond to your questions.

[barn]

On 08/03/2018 at 1:30 AM, mgggb said:

On 08/02/2018 at 10:30 PM, barn said:

Interesting. Why do you think that was? How do you know/have you assessed that?

This is a tad bit offshoot, still kinda relevant:

Would you say that the current efforts in increasing the effectiveness of vetting to the USA (no 'terror-badies' allowed) is neither going to result in the hoped changes, or that it's just imperfect and it will achieve a large enough success?

It's mostly just a political buzzword imo. The travel ban is what's most effective, not extreme vetting, because people can just lie. 

If I understand you correctly, you're saying that vetting people by origin of country is more effective than origin of country + additional criteria (if I translated the expression you used "extreme vetting" close enough) ?

On 08/03/2018 at 1:30 AM, mgggb said:

On 08/02/2018 at 10:30 PM, barn said:

Dunno. I sorta think, all that think that would be able to make a better living elsewhere will try, be it someone who is a statist to the gifted... it's just that not all will be able to stay elsewhere for various reasons (can't adapt, homesick, rejected... etc)

btw... That's why I asked (it's ok) about the European ancestry regarding the USA.

 I'm not sure it really matters if they want a better life. Most political parties in europe make Sanders look like Rothbard. It doesn't matter to me if someone is ethnically european if they're going to bring their european politics with them and influence things here. 

Is it possible that 'you're casting your net wider than preferable, catching more sea-life than what you'll actually want to trade' ?

I mean, you do realise my op's aimed at less than 20% of Europeans. Hmm, or is it that what I'm thinking is not inclusive enough and my narrowing down was irrelevant you think? I do get and see eye to eye on the highlighted part:

On 08/03/2018 at 1:30 AM, mgggb said:

To be clear, I'm not saying that there is no one in europe worth saving, but my concern is that they are few and far between and it would be neigh impossible to sort them out from the undeserving ones. 

Ok, let me ask you this... When thinking of value encapsulated in a given quantity... Does Stefan Molyneux qualify as European if we filtered by origin(?) (+1 Would you say that Peter J. Watson's manifesting "european politics" too?) and that keeping the back door open for such individuals was an immense net gain, even if the costs were relatively higher? (because they'll be paying it off in several multitudes later, unlike the illegal immigrants currently unable to 'find' jobs)

As a sidenote, I fully agree with you on the 'buzzword' thingy, although in this case it's actually representative of the majority of people who voted Trump into office(and he's using it accordingly).

On 08/02/2018 at 10:30 PM, barn said:

On 08/02/2018 at 8:05 PM, mgggb said:

Anyone with any sense and two nickles to rub together got out of Europe/SA a long time ago. So by "that" I mean leftism. 

This is also interesting. Again, I would be curious to know, how have you concluded / verified it? 

 

On 08/03/2018 at 1:30 AM, mgggb said:

No way to verify it, but if I was in those places I would have gotten out asap. My assumption is that people who stayed had no problems when policies were being implemented but want out because it's gone horribly, predictably, wrong. 

No way you think? Bummer. No probs. It sounds logical though to a certain degree.

The way I think of it, the reason I was asking, because I know quite a few people who have large sums of money sunk into 'cashcows' / sluggish herency related assets... etc. and to transition from one place to another 'TAKING' with you your lifesavings is quite a challenge (well, depending on your preference for retention rate and stuff). There's not that many 'mobile asset holders' to 'cemented down' wealthy people, comparatively. Future telling is a great gamble, especially if you aren't used to it (Europe has always had less applicable free-market as a whole than say the USA, takes time to 'unlearn' state boundaries).

(Obviously, I also know about the 'cream of the top' having left/in the process of leaving / transitioning, but as you know there are several levels below say, 200K a year, conservatively put.)

Do you know anyone's personal story first-hand that had left ahead of time?

On 08/02/2018 at 8:05 PM, mgggb said:

(The constitution only exists as a protection so long as people want it to,... )

... so will millions of more potential leftists I don't see it lasting for very long. 

 

On 08/03/2018 at 1:30 AM, mgggb said:

On 08/02/2018 at 10:30 PM, barn said:

This, I also believe to be correct (if I followed your line of thought correctly). Hence the problem currently in the US and other nations regarding population replacement, the current signs, and its very likely, much greater consequences.

Would you say, that it was easier to heal a 'recently' fallen ill patient with a still working immune system in a hospital, or a person that has never been very strong and is currently lacking access to proper health care system?

The only way most europeans can be rehabilitated is by admitting the intrinsic failures and immorality of their ideologies. Short of that, the best thing that can happen is that their suffering serves as a warning to others. If people refuse to admit their causal role in what's happening in europe, then they're a lost cause and it will only hurt us by bringing them here. 

That's a great point, I think. (see below if I got it)

Similarly in parenting, or in education, if consequences are being kept outside of a bubble, the children/students will not be able to interact with reality when the bubble burst. For them, the otherwise neutral reality is most likely going to be an impossible impasse, for most it's going to be a knee-jerk reaction to seek out another 'protective bubble' during the shock of being unable to function/the world is 'functioning upside down', suddenly. (Is this that you'd meant?)

Would you say that perhaps it was time the Europeans, except for the "few and far between" should be left to their own devices, and it's an illusion that 'helping' would help? (as in: " You are not to leave this building. America is closed. America closed." - Terminal, movie)

On 08/03/2018 at 1:30 AM, mgggb said:

... to sort them out from the undeserving ones. Do you think there is a way to reasonably do so?

 Yes, indeed. A great working principle 'separating the chaff from the wheat':

° The most accurate predictor of future behaviour is past, relevant actions, behavior. That's it. <first heard it from Stefan Molyneux>

[ofd]

Quote

Is it really a good idea to take in European refugees? Europe is the way it is because of Europeans. Why should we bring that here?

You already have European style socialists at the top of every institution. In Iceland you can study what happens when they arrive.

 

 

[RichardY]

Hurrah Collectivism. No individualistic settling of disputes, just massive tribal warfare. Bulk of the world being collectivist. Unconscious bias. Given modern technology and lack of geographical separation. Collectivism winning big time. Some ability to choose between Left and Right, virtually none between collectivism and individualism.

[Siegfried von Walheim]

17 hours ago, ofd said:

You already have European style socialists at the top of every institution. In Iceland you can study what happens when they arrive.

Oy vey! If I was Jewish I'd be very ashamed to be represented by this cuck...

Welp, a crazy Jew is the least of Iceland's problems. I think they're the ones with a lesbian Prime Minister... 

[ofd]

Quote

I think they're the ones with a lesbian Prime Minister... 

Nope, she is married with three kids. Plus, the previous government would have none of the banking fraud stuff and put some bankers in jail. There are worse governments in Europe for sure.

[barn]

On 07/31/2018 at 9:20 PM, Siegfried von Walheim said:

All this running away will result in the same end that befell the Amerindians when they continually sold out their descendants and hid out in the expansive West. Eventually the West ran out, and so did they. 

Europe's going to be fine. Sure, they might have some rough patches, maybe even a few wars, but they'll be fine. They've been fine for at least 5,000 years, I'm sure they'll be fine for another 5,000. 

You might not like it, but feudalism is what succeeded republicanism historically (in Europe). The Feudal Monarchy is progressive; the Republic is regressive. And while you might not have meant it literally, it's a possible future. More likely there will be petty dictatorships though. Once they've fallen, they may morph into feudal states however and return to law and order in doing so.

In this day and age (easy access to information, skill-based mobility worldwide, easy access to long-haul transportation... etc.) , other than in low IQ populations, I don't think feudalism is going to have much traction. Nor would most governments be in favour of it, given it would bring about compartmentalised power in the hands of more individuals than of now with less added benefits. (Greed, lust for power... sins 'stuff' at the table of the unelected 'elected' decision makers)

Also, for a full fledged dictatorship I'm guessing, the mean IQ would have to drop 10-15 points (which is a lot) overall, at least. Or, is your projection in the coming centuries?

What signs at currently transitioning (?) examples are you basing your ('might/could') projections for Europe? What are the standards for disprovability?

On 07/31/2018 at 9:22 PM, Siegfried von Walheim said:

On 07/31/2018 at 9:19 PM, barn said:

Lastly , probably you've noticed in the title the "<20% Europeans" with which I was approximating the part of the population that would be welcomed with broad arms by the States, should a mass departure occurred from Europe (obviously, there'd ha ve to be a vetting / 'grading' system in place).

I don't think America/Russia would benefit from importing the most cowardly 20% of Europeans... 

Me neither. I don't think cowards have a desirable track record in terms of providing value, it's not common to see coward entrepreneurs or good (yet coward?) professionals create value as a whole. Instead, I recommend that you had another 'peek' at (or explained to me why you thought I assumed wrongfully... etc.)

->

Please refer to the part where I wrote :

"I was approximating the part of the population that would be welcomed with broad arms by the States."

On 07/31/2018 at 9:22 PM, Siegfried von Walheim said:

I don't think America/Russia would benefit from importing the most cowardly 20% of Europeans... 

...However Europe might benefit.  

I would listen to (read) your ideas here if you had any...

On 07/31/2018 at 9:22 PM, Siegfried von Walheim said:

I'd rather not play theoretical-God though, because neither you nor I can really be sure what'll happen so we might as well just accept the infinite possibilities and tend to our own gardens. 

... ok. Yes. Future stuff is just as inaccessible as the past from a living / acting type perspective. Sure.

I appreciate the reminder and sort of... nope, sorry let me start again.

I appreciate the reminder but it is bugging me too much, it's not doing the trick this time. I'm on a sinking ship (Europe) and doesn't seem that gaping hole got any smaller lately...

By the by... Are you also located in Europe or you are actually elsewhere? (no need to be specific)

ps. - to moderators: I'm perfectly fine with @Siegfried von Walheim

's comments or posts, please let them through.

[ticketyboo]

On 8/7/2018 at 4:13 PM, Siegfried von Walheim said:

Oy vey! If I was Jewish I'd be very ashamed to be represented by this cuck...

Welp, a crazy Jew is the least of Iceland's problems. I think they're the ones with a lesbian Prime Minister... 

No refugees for Israel? I'm shocked I say, just shocked!