drgonzo1969 Posted September 6, 2018 Posted September 6, 2018 I was wondering if anyone else has noticed an uptrend in conservatives linking Atheism with the left? I've seen more memes being spread about the insanity of the left (with Atheism being a part of it).
S1988 Posted September 6, 2018 Posted September 6, 2018 Yes, it's just stereotyped thinking that needs to end. It's true that some leftists are atheists, but that's not always the case, like there are many people on this forum who are atheists but not leftists. And, there are some leftists who practice a religion; I come from a left-leaning Baptist family. So, there you go.
RichardY Posted September 6, 2018 Posted September 6, 2018 Even an Atheist believes in the idea of God. So if Atheists are delusional, some part of their thinking is. If Atheists are not delusional(they can't be, if God is a delusion), and Theists are, then some of their thinking is still delusional, as they hold the idea of God. Another option is that God is an illusion. If so, how does one resolve an illusion? ---------------------------------- Typically I think conservatives are dogmatists. ------------------------------ Haven't paid any attention to "memes" on Atheism and leftism, sounds more like SPAM.
neeeel Posted September 6, 2018 Posted September 6, 2018 57 minutes ago, RichardY said: Even an Atheist believes in the idea of God. So if Atheists are delusional, some part of their thinking is. If Atheists are not delusional(they can't be, if God is a delusion), and Theists are, then some of their thinking is still delusional, as they hold the idea of God. Another option is that God is an illusion. If so, how does one resolve an illusion? ---------------------------------- Typically I think conservatives are dogmatists. ------------------------------ Haven't paid any attention to "memes" on Atheism and leftism, sounds more like SPAM. Huh? How does understanding an idea mean that you believe in the idea? What does it mean to "believe in the idea of god" anyway?
RichardY Posted September 6, 2018 Posted September 6, 2018 3 hours ago, neeeel said: Huh? How does understanding an idea mean that you believe in the idea? I didn't use the term understand, though if God exists, whatever that means, how can a person understand the idea of God? I avoided using the term impression, as if ideas are formed according to David Hume in part by empirical impressions, how is one supposed to receive an impression from God? For instance, a person may have the impression of morality, without then going onto to codify it, into an ethical system, by the use of reason. 3 hours ago, neeeel said: What does it mean to "believe in the idea of god" anyway? I don't know. But how is a person supposed to argue against an idea, if it does not have some degree of validity. It should be dismissed, indeed if it has zero degree of validity it will not register, not have it turned into some form of identity. "I'm Spartacus!" Unless of cause it has validity, which Atheism continues to give to the idea of God. I say believe in the idea, and not the idea itself. As it has many different definitions none of them meaningful to me, but nevertheless prominent enough, to have oceans of blood spilled.
shirgall Posted September 6, 2018 Posted September 6, 2018 Hard to call being skeptical of something that has no evidence a delusion, but since most people come to atheism not from rationality but rather from cultural Marxism, it's easy to tie it to the left.
RichardY Posted September 9, 2018 Posted September 9, 2018 On 9/6/2018 at 5:23 PM, shirgall said: Hard to call being skeptical of something that has no evidence a delusion, but since most people come to atheism not from rationality but rather from cultural Marxism, it's easy to tie it to the left. What about the principle of sufficient reason? If not a delusion would it be fair to call God an illusion? And it to that extent exists. God is existence, existence is an illusion? "That to the height of this great argument I may assert eternal Providence, And justify the ways of God to men." Making a God of War. Would it be fair to say there is no evidence, for "The Great War"? or "The Great War Part II"? It's not that people stop believing in something? What do you believe in?
shirgall Posted September 10, 2018 Posted September 10, 2018 10 hours ago, RichardY said: What about the principle of sufficient reason? If not a delusion would it be fair to call God an illusion? And it to that extent exists. God is existence, existence is an illusion? "That to the height of this great argument I may assert eternal Providence, And justify the ways of God to men." Making a God of War. Would it be fair to say there is no evidence, for "The Great War"? or "The Great War Part II"? It's not that people stop believing in something? What do you believe in? Depends what you mean by God, since there are thousands of mutually exclusive religions. None of them are credible.
RichardY Posted September 10, 2018 Posted September 10, 2018 17 hours ago, shirgall said: Depends what you mean by God, since there are thousands of mutually exclusive religions. None of them are credible. I guess cosmos or existence itself, maybe consciousness. Yeah, consciousness itself is God. Been toying with the idea, I don't think God is chance now, after reading some of David Hume. I think people make a God of War, the state and probably other things, Determinism for instance. Although praying to consciousness, as a phenomena not dictated by matter..... Religions though dedicated to consciousness, would be like saying druidism, shaminism or animism were religions.
shirgall Posted September 11, 2018 Posted September 11, 2018 While I respect consciousness, I don't think it meets any common definition of God, nor does its existence justify any religion that I know of. Instead I attribute it to an emergent property of brain matter and its unique properties of interconnections, information retention, and feedback.
RichardY Posted September 11, 2018 Posted September 11, 2018 @shirgall If an emergent property, wouldn't that be the equivalent of Property Dualism? Making brainz a special type of matter, usually think of "Return of the Living dead." origin of tarman the brain eating zombie. I did have the thought that perhaps the idea/error of God may prevent people from fulfilling their full potential, specifically the idea, that God bestows some form of afterlife. Maybe holding firm to a particular presupposition since the word God is difficult to forget, would be the way to go and remain in the present, as the only thing we have?
shirgall Posted September 11, 2018 Posted September 11, 2018 No, they aren't special. There are emergent properties in all sorts of media.
ofd Posted September 11, 2018 Posted September 11, 2018 Quote Yeah, consciousness itself is God. Consciousness is a figment of the brain to see how a simulation would react to situations without risking being in those situations and getting in danger. Somehow this simulation got access to language and now communicates with figments of other brains.
RichardY Posted September 11, 2018 Posted September 11, 2018 1 hour ago, shirgall said: No, they aren't special. There are emergent properties in all sorts of media. The whole being greater than the sum of its parts? So mathematics that does not conform to reality/existence, 2 + 2 = 4, would be more like 2 + 2 = 3 or 5. Respectively losing or gaining in the transfer? A kind of friction. 1 hour ago, ofd said: Consciousness is a figment of the brain to see how a simulation would react to situations without risking being in those situations and getting in danger. Somehow this simulation got access to language and now communicates with figments of other brains. In which case, wouldn't "Enlightenment" be the ending of simulations? I have seen presumably, Leftists making a cult out of consciousnesss, the whole guru thing. Instead of materialism, spiritialism. Might be like the in the concentration camps from "Man's Search for Meaning", where some prisoners effectively "gave up", thereby enlightened........ ------------------- I suppose I'm looking for a way around a deterministic metaphysic, psychologically I don't think determinism makes sense, I thought maybe consciousness could be another way of thinking about something not deterministic, but not quite freewill either. Although would like to come up with something other than Determinism Plus ie Compatibilism. Perhaps emergentism may provide answers, I think Nietzsche had the idea of existence being more like a chaotic flux.
shirgall Posted September 12, 2018 Posted September 12, 2018 21 hours ago, RichardY said: Perhaps emergentism may provide answers, I think Nietzsche had the idea of existence being more like a chaotic flux. While the philosophical version is emergentism, emergence is quite prevalent empirically. Even the classic laws of physics emerge from the observed properties of quantum physics. You mentioned friction, but the property of converting mechanical energy from rubbing things together into kinetic energy, that is heat, is directly related to the underlying structure of the materials being rubbed together, making heat from friction an emergent property.
ofd Posted September 12, 2018 Posted September 12, 2018 Quote In which case, wouldn't "Enlightenment" be the ending of simulations? I have seen presumably, Leftists making a cult out of consciousnesss, the whole guru thing. It's quite interesting when you meditate that you realize that the monkey brain is only one part and that other parts of your mind function in a similar way. Enlightenment is simply acknowledging reality and acting it accordance with it. And since your mind constructs reality, getting to know its machinations plays a big role.
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