VforVoluntary49

Lol and here it goes again. Unreal

The short version is that we had known each otehr for years in high school, had been friends in theater, hung out a few times. We both went away to school, but I moved back a few years ago transferring schools and she was home for a summer, and we started talking and hanging out. We ended up dating for about 4, 5 months-we had very similar backgrounds, both very smart, into sports, theater etc. However, she had severe depression and mental disorders, which I found out as we began dating (anorexia, cutting herself) and would often avoid or ignore her therapist, and it became a very unhealthy relationship. We ended up fighting a lot, and I felt like I was just a crutch so we ended up breaking up when she went away to grad school. This was 3 years ago. We texted occasionally after awhile had gone by, neither of us dating anyone, but just as friends. I began dating my current girlfriend/fiance 2 years ago, and I hadn't heard from Abby in a long time. About a year ago, she texted me and we talked a little-I had problems in relationships in the past, asserting myself with women-I had a hard time breaking up with them (usually did the thing where you drive them away and make them leave you) and also when I would be broken up with a woman I was always far too nice and friendly-I guess I would always try to leave my options open, in case the relationship I was in didn't work out. I stopped doing that, and reevaluated myself and that part of my life as I became interested in philosophy, psychology, etc (FDR, etc) in January, which is when I proposed to my fiance. The problem is that last year when Abby and I texted occasionally, I was too nice. She apparently didn't know I had a girlfriend, and was talking like she wanted to get back together some day, she missed me etc. I said things like "In some ways I wish it had turned out differently" and "Maybe someday in the future we can try again who knows" etc. I'm always worried if I tell her a hard truth she may go back to cutting or stop eating (what she usually does to handle stress). Then she stopped talking to me for almost another year, during which time she dated another guy and broke up with him, and I got engaged. About 2 month ago she was in town, and asked to have dinner. I agreed to go, to she if she was any healthier/better and to clear the air. I did keep it from my fiance at first, because I try to keep that part of my past under wraps. At dinner, it was obvious she still didn't know I was engaged or even dating anyone, and she definitely looked severely skinny, which made me think she was back to not eating (she ate very little at dinner too). Later, she started texting me, being very flirtatious and wantig to get back together, and in the past I probably woud have led her on, cheated on my fiance and just drove my current girlfriend away and went back with abby, until I ruined that relationship too. I know that thats my tendency and I told her no, I told her the truth that I was with someone, can never be with her, etc. She snapped, freaking out, threatening to send saved conversations we had in text messages to my fiance, etc. The messages weren't altogether bad, but the fact it had occured behind my fiances back was the worst part. I begged her not to, and she said she woudnt if we just hung out and "dated" and saw where it went and if we had a good time then I had to break up with my fiance or she would try to ruin my life. This discussion went on for about a week-I barely slept, ate, didn't know what to do. I finally snapped, yelled at her, told her why I was so nice (afraid she would do something stupid) but that I didn't care at this point, I would never go out with her in a million years, and that I was going to confess to my fiance and if she wanted to leave me so be it. I have not heard from her since then. I confessed to my fiance, and she was amazingly understanding-she could see how pained I was, and she knows how much I have changed with her, and our relationship has been so much better since. The week or so was one of the most stressful times in my life though, which may be why it resonated in my unconscious.

A lot to answer there lol. Well, for starters, I was a National Merit Scholar coming out of high school and I got a full-ride to Ohio State, so I didn't incur any debt there. However, I went into education as my major and had a complete crisis of consience a few years in (I hadn't really encountered any real philosophy or libertarian/ancap ideas, except for Ayn Rand at this point.) I considered myself a libertarian but felt incredibly alone and isolated at OSU, not realizing the community that is out there and the additional literature/ideas/reading. At ohio state i went through the nihilistic/self-destructive phase most people who go down this path seem to encounter at some point in their life. I stopped going to class, became extremely depressed and eventually dropped out and moved back home. I began working and started going to community college, bleeding dry the college savings fund my mother had saved up for me and I took out a few loans to get by, and decided to go into Criminal Justice (I wanted to be a detective or investigator, and potentially one day work my way up the FBI if possible). I got into another undergraduate program at a state school for my bachelors and was dually enrolled there and at community, not taking out many loans when I went through another bout of depression from the overwork and stress/anxiety of trying to catch up and finish my schooling (I was working two jobs and doing two full-time courseloads). I stopped going to classes again and came within one signature of signing up for the national guard as an escape and a way to make some money and finish paying for my school. My girlfriend at the time (my current fiancee) and just an innate fear is all that kept me from going. Right at this time I began following Ron Paul's campaign (as well as publicly accepted my personal beleief's as an atheist within) and I got hooked. I began reading Ron Paul, Rothbard, Hayek, a lot of economics but also a lot of alternative history as well, and really began exploring libertarian ideas, especially because I was no longer in school. I reevaluated my decisions, and one of the ways to go into the FBI from a police background is to have a law degree. I had wanted to be a lawyer for years growing up (for idealistic reasons) but got cared of the idea in high school and gave up on the thought. Now, I began reconsidering it-not because I wanted to join the FBI again (I began to realize just how corrupt the state was at this point) but because I started to wonder if perhaps that was the career that was right for me, attorney. At this time, I found FDR and fully considered myself an AnCap. But law and being a lawyer really seemed to fit my strengths, and I was more than capable (mentally at least) of handling it. I took summer classes and finished both of my degrees in one year, taking out some more student loans (but still not many, I was working this whole time), took the LSAT and got accepted into a number of law schools. I have a scholarship at the one I am attending that almost totally covers my costs, and my family offered to pay for my books for school as my graduation present for finishing my undergrad. I'm continuing to work, my fiancee works to jobs and if all goes according to plan, I'll leave law school in three years with less than $20,000 in student loans, which is really nothing much at all, so I should t heoretically have more financial flexibility to explore a field I want when I leave. Also, my fiancee and I are very low maintenance people so dreams of riches or grandeur don't really entice us, and we can make do on an average salary. The field I want to explore and why I decided to continue down this path is because I don't want to leave the field to the statists alone-I don't want to just give the arena to them. Even in an AnCap society, common "laws" (not governmental laws as in rules backed by force but laws or DRO agreements, contract structures, etc) will still exist, just not backed by guns. The field is corrupt and twisted, but there are still battles that can be fought and won. My goals are either to be a public defender, criminal defens attorney in general or to explore opportunities in private aternative dispute resolutions (and perhaps see if I can find or begin something that is similar to a DRO in this day and age-an alternative to the courts). I know the system can't be changed to torn down from the inside, but if I can be an honest voice fighting for people against the state that may change a few lives. In the grand scheme of t hings it may not make a difference, but to the few people who I may be able to save from prison or who I may be able to fight for a reduced sentence, it could mean the world to. I'm not sure exactly what I want to do, but I feel that this is too important of an arena to just give up on, especially when the s*** hits the fan again. If I and other lawyers with "ancap" views can be in the system and even in some small ways making our arguments and putting these types of ideas (even if they are only the generally "accepted" libertarian/minarchist ideas) than we will hav much more traction when the system collapses and restructures, as is inevitable. My worry is boxing myself into a corner, but I hopefully will cross that bridge when I get to it. Oh, and I am Batman. So that helps too

I appreciate that, and I'll definitely have to check them out. I'm wondering if anyone has any ideas on the ethics of the situation, or if there is a podcast or thread that addresses it somewhere (I'm currently working my way through the 800's, although I have listened to about a hundred random later podcasts as well). By the ethics I mean is the act of going to law school and passing unethical by definition, because in order to pass and graduate ill have to inevitably "play the game", and at least keep some things under wraps, or is it more like a state of nature or a simple calculation-I didn't set up the system but in order to achieve positive ends in the field I must do X Y and Zed, and the ethics don't come in until I am actually practicing or at least doing clinicals and have the ability to make those choices? Or did the choice of embarking upon a semi-corrupt profession already mean I had sold part of my integrity and I should accept it now? I just don't want to keep making choices based on the expediency of the moment or "the argument from effect" and then one day wake up and not be able to look attacks in the mirror and if anyone has advice on where or how to find the answer I would be most grateful

I appreciate all the opinions, they do make good sense. The inconsistency is glaring, even within the first week of classes. It's so easy to get caught up in the glowing language used and how the profs speak of the system at hand, and I've found myself more than once wishing it were true, that we do have one of the greatest legal systems ever, that we do have a constitution that protects people's rights and that the system just needs tweaking. But I feel the anchoring of the philosophy discussed here, grounding me to reality, and through all the platitudes they spout I can see what almost seems like a current of blood underscoring everything said, and I feel like I may be the only one who sees it-it's a very lonely place to be, but it was my choice to make. I definitely can never be a prosecutor-my goals are to be either a defense attorney, or explore options in ADR (alternative dispute resolution) and see if perhaps there are/can be functioning forms of dispute resolution (ie DROs) in society, and perhaps see how far or close we are to those becoming a stronger force. My main goal for continuing to go apply to and go to law school is because law, words, the public discourse, etc. is the main arena in this current age is being fought, and I feel that I can be a voice or a shield for those who otherwise have no voice or defense from the state or the legal system. It will be like a drop in the water, but I do think I can balance it, and i Haven't been losing sleep like I did in my undergrad (criminal "justice") so I do feel I'm on the right path for myself. Wesley-do you happen to know the name of the firm you were speaking about, or where they are based out of?

This past week I started attending my first year of law school in Ohio. I became an anarcho-capitalist/voluntaryist about 8 months ago, which was a few months after I decided to attend law school. I examined how I felt about my decision to continue down this path and while I know there are going to be many career paths and decisions closed to me, I still felt/feel that this is the correct path for me, where I can use my skills and my mind in the most productive way possible and hopefully I can find a niche where I can advance or exercise many of the principles of philosophy we discuss here at FDR. However, even I didn't realize just how into the belly of the beast I was headed. I have been sick for about 2 weeks, so I wasn't able to really prepare myself as fully as I had hoped and the emotions and thoughts have been coming one after another. It's true what they say-you can't unlearn what you have learned going down this anarchist path, and you can't unsee what you have seen. While it is an exciting field, the fellow students often brilliant and thought provoking (as are the teachers), and the subject matter and dreams of grandeur, wealth and purpose permeate the halls, I can't blind myself to the blood underlying the system. Every time a profesor speaks of regulations, laws, taxes, statutes, etc. without flinching, acting like they are just words on paper and aren't words with the power of guns aimed at peoples' heads, I cringe twice. When they speak in awe or reverance of politicians, judges, etc. with glowing language for the good they do, for the good our nation has done in the realm of liberty and legal freedoms (which in its small defense is more than other "nations") I can't join in, because I see the pain underneath it all. And the desire to forget, to bend on principle, to "play the game" ill be there, every day, for the next 3 years and beyond. It hasn't been bad yet, but making it through the classes, the internships, the bar, etc. while maintaining my integrity may be the hardest thing to do, and the desire to sell out in some small ways, to paint myself as just a very conservative, libertarian leaning student who still fits within the normal "allowed" spectrum is something I will have to wrestle with. I don't know what will happen if someone (especially a prof) asks me point blank what my religious views (atheist) or political views or familial views are-in that instant, should I stand on my principle and shoot myself in the foot in some ways, or should I find a diplomatic answer and trade the integrity of a fleeting conversation inn the moment for the ability to achieve greater goals in the end. I don't know how this year will go, nor do I don't know what decisions I will have to make or how they will turn out. If any has entered law school as an AnCap before (or changed partway through as well) any advice, tips or just your story would be most, most helpful, and anyone else with advice on how to conduct yourself with integrity in similar situations would be helpful and appreciated as well.

I don't plan on entering any corporate law, prosecutorial law, etc.-I will do my best to avoid any direct contact with the state wherever possible. My likely career goal is to become a defense attorney or a public defender for much of my career, doing my best to defend people who are unable to defend themselves in this arena. I feel that I will be happiest using my mind and my gifts in this arena to do what I can to be a voice for those who don't have one. I can live relatively simply, so I don't see myself being tempted with lofty career goals/dreams of becoming rich. Truth be told, I made the decision to enter law school while still a minarchist, with intentions of possibly using it as an avenue to become a politician or to have some influence on reducing the state or ratrding its growth in some ways. After making the final leap, those goals are gone but I still feel that this is one of the areas that I can do the most good, both in terms of helping people and using my skills most productively, while giving me a strong enough income to continue studying philosophy and hopefully enough income to allow my wife to stay home and homeschool our future children. *side note* I was in and out of sleep at certain parts of the dream, so I am not sure if it was one continuous dream or a number of loosely connected dreams back to back. One of the main things I feel that I got from the dream was an evolution of my assertiveness-in the past I was very unobtrusive and would usually surrender my opinions or desires to other people's preferences/choices, especially with women and in my personal relationships. I was also very unassertive when relationships were ending, and would often take the weasely route of making my girlfriend at the time break up with me to remove the direct responsibility from myself. This has changed as my understanding of philosophy as grown, and I think that may have been reflected in my actions in the dream-throwing the women out of my room, not bribing the officer, etc. which may mirror how I dealt with my ex when she reentered my life, and is telling me I will need that same strength of will to survive law school with my "soul" intact

I normally only remember snippets or flashes from my dreams, but I was quite sick yesterday and took some pm medication to help ease my stomache and help myself fall asleep, and I had one of the more memorable and vivid dreams that I have had in years, but I have little to no idea how to really interpret much of it. I am going through a lot of changes in my life at the time, which I explain more at the end. Any help or feedback would be great. The dream began in what felt like a doormroom at the first college I attended. I was in line for a physical or a weigh-in of some sort in a doctors office, and behind me walked up two twins I knew from high school-we had been on the wrestling team together, but I have had little to no contact with them since. They are going to school to become doctors of some sort, but in the dream I had forgotten this and asked them. I am then walking down the hallway to my dormroom, and the door is open. 2 women are in their, one of whom I recognize in the dream (but I don't remember how-I think it was a fuzzy image of one of my ex's who shows up later in the dream, but I am not a hundred % sure) and the other I don't know. They are watching the tv in my room, and for some reason I know I do not want them there. A former friend from this same college was waiting with them, half asleep/bored on my bed. As I walk in he looks up at me and noda vigorously. I then scream at the women and throw them out of the room. The next thing I remember is that I am with my fiancee, but have to leave to drive to work ( I currently work a few jobs, but was going to my evening waiter/bartender hift at my uncles' restaurant). On the way I see my uncles at a house or different restaurant in a neghborhood. We talk for a few minutes and they tell me not to go to work yet. I stop into a house party I know nearby and am eating cake and playing checkers when another kid I knew from high school. He was a bit of a bully and an a-hole, but not to me (we had almost no interactions in high school). He asked me why I was ignoring Miranda (a girl I had dated for a few months and had stopped seeing for a few months prior to meeting my fiance. She keeps showing up at both of my jobs and asking if I am in, and is highly annoying). He raised his hand to threaten me, I told him I would go talk to her, and that he didn't have to worry, I always kept my word and never gave him reason to doubt me. I go to her house (its around the corner form the house the party was at). I walk in and she is crying (I think she was one of the girls I yelled at to leave my room earlier). The problem is, I and everyone in the dream keeps calling her Miranda but the feeling I get of whom I am talking to is my prior serious girlfriend from a few years ago, Abby. Both are blonde, and I feel like the dream has merged them or that there is some sort of disconnect occuring. Abby was a girl who I had much in common with, and had a relatively amicable breakup with-we both were going to college in cities relatively far away and the relationship sort of splintered becaue of this. I stupidly told her however that I would always love to get back with her and give it another chance whenever she wanted-mainly, I was just saying this to make the break-up easier and to placate her feelings (which I am notorious for doing). Anyways, we decide go for a drive to talk about things. We walk to my car, and pass a prior car of mine which looks exactly like my current one but feels much older. Abby/Miranda says I lft it there awhile back but it has been kept safe. It is locked and I left the key at home but I can look in and see various things from my past`, including some items from the job I have been in for almost 3 years but am leaving in a week. We keep walking and get into my current car. We drive down the street but turn too early, and drive into a housing development. Somehow the street turns into a wide hallway inside a building and I drive to the end of it. I notice tire tracks and scuffs on the wood floor and walls. The hallway opens into a restaurant or bar room with about a half dozen tables in a half square around a bar and fireplace in the middle of the room. There is a bartender and only one half occupied table in the left closest corner. The room's walls are all windows looking out into houses surrounding the bulding, as if we are still in some sort of housing development. Although it was afternoon or early evening when we drove into the hallway, the sky outside of the windows is pihblack with starlight shining through. We back out of the room, and I realize I am late ofr work and need to drive to my uncles' restaurant and have to take her with me. The whole time of the dream other than when talking about my old car Miranda/Abby has been silent and either crying or sad/upset, but has said or done almost nothing, simply following. I realize we have to go back to the hidden restaurant for something, and we drive down the street/hallways again. This time, it is early morning (just after dawn) outide the windows, and also my car has turned into a scooter we use to roll down the hallway. It is all silver, with a much thicker bottom then usually on similar scooters. It is also more squarelike, and adjusts to become longer or shorter depending on how many people are riding. We leave the hallway, and are back in my car driving to my work. Along the way, we pass the neighborhood I used to live in and turn into a shopping development that is nearby to get gas for my car. The neighborhood is one I lived in for the first 10 years of my life, and is right down the street from my church and elementary school (I went to Catholic school for about six years). The shopping development is right next to my (former) church, and in real life has no gas station located in the parking lot but it does in the dream. I drive somewhat quickly out of the street and into the parking lot because I am in a hurry, and make a number of swerves to make it up the curb. A few police officers are watching from the parking lot and drive over with the lights flashing as I pull up to the gas pump. I get out of the car and am informed I owe a $200 fine for making an illegal right turn into the parking lot and also for speeding, but the sleezy police detective I am talking to informs me that I can also get out of the ticket if I pay him $5. I start crying and inform him that I can't do that, that I am going to law school to be an attorney and I can't have bribing a police officer on my conscience or on my record if I am ever caught. He walks away, and a middle aged, hispanic, female police chief walks up and I tell her the choice I made, and she gives me a hug and wishes me luck. I go back to my car, balling my eyes out and see a black man two cars ahead of me pull out a knife, and then I see the man right ahead of me pumping gas pull out some sort of machine gun. They are looking at the police officers, and look like they are going to either rob somebody or attack the police officers first, but they do not notice me. I step on the gas and run over the man in front of me with the gun, and the man with the knife brandishes it and stares at me, but doesn't move. I am mortified I ran the man over but I also feel like I know it was the right thing to do. I get out of the car and look at who it was I ran over, and it apparently is Kel Mitchell (an obscure Nickelodean actor from the late 90s early 00's, from "Kenan and Kel" (one of my favorite shows growing up, "Good Burger", "All That", etc. he has had a very up and down career since then, and there was a time when there was a false story that he had died or had been killed that I had believed for awhile. In the dream, I freak out and believe that it was now myself who had killed Kel. Thats the last thing I remember before waking. Brief personal background. Atheist and anarcho-capitalist 23 year old college student-I will be attending law school this fall, and begin in one week. I began listening to Stef's podcasts about 8 months ago, and they blew my mind-felt like they were saying many of the things I had always felt or thought but never had words for at the time. I began cleaning up my personal life, and since then I have graduated undergrad (after 5 years), I recently put in my two weeks at job I hate and will be leaving the same time school starts, I proposed to my girlfriend of 18 months at the time and our relationship has improved by leaps and bounds in the time since I began listening to the podcasts, and I have become more brave and assertive in my personal and familial relationships-we had been keeping the engagement secret from my family for a few months until we got our plans more in order, and just recetly we came out to my mother, which went....well, it could hve gone worse but not by much, and mostly confirmed much of what I already suspected about my mothers unwillingess to share in her childrens' happiness if it doesn't conform to her definition of what "happiness" or "success" is. Finally, the Abby girl came back into my life recently, trying to get me to break up with my fiance and get back with her. She has a history of mental illness and depression, and I had to be very firm with her but was worried she would do something drastic. Anyways, any interpretation or feedback about what this mess of a dream is is more than welcome, and I can answer any other questions as well.

Cleveland area here. Definitely feels few and far between up here.

I agree with ^ welcome to the board, and I don't think anyone will view you opinions as poisoned or disingenuous outright- I myself came perilously close to making the same pact, and I know what it can be like. Following the theme of the question above, are you able to discuss many/any of your views with your fellow enlistees, or do they generally respond in the typically expected fashion (or do you not even try, knowing what the outcome would be). Just wondering what the view is from the inside out

As so many others have said and countless will say, it is absolutely both heartbreaking and inspiring to hear this-heartbreaking that you will have to go through this ordeal, and inspiring (as is so much that you have done) to see your outlook and attitude. I have only been listening to the podcasts for about 4 months now (but rapidly trying to catch up) and I cannot express the impact that your knowledge and expression has had on my life, on how many hours, days and years of personal pain and struggle that your podcasts and books have saved me. I know that there isn't much I can do personally to help other than offer my best wishes and thoughts (along with everyone in the FDR community), but I also will do my very best to live my life in pursuit of my values, of these values of truth and reason that FDR has given me-that is the best tribute and thanks that I can offer at this point. Again, my heart goes out to you and your family, and while I know that you are strong and will not let this get you down my enormous sympathy to you and your family. Warmest regards, Josh

I have not had a chance to make it out to any, unfortunately but I am thinking about heading out to the next Porcfest if it works with my school/work schedule. My hometown is a bit of a rational wasteland, to say the least and university isn't much better to be honest so any reason-minded people I get a chance to meet or talk to are few and far between sometimes. It definitely seems like you have some diversified interests. Something like an economic historian or anthropologist sounds like it could be up your alley, given the interests in history, motivations, etc. Are you early enough in your studies that you can still explore different paths or do you have to choose a field soon?

Thank you for the excellent and obviously heartwrenching post. I've been there myself (drinking, women etc.), though not to the degree you were-for some reason, I think a lot of people who end up as anarchists/AnCaps etc. have gone through a particularly dark or nihilistic time in their lives. Seems like people who cannot stand the present world but don't know why end up hating and revolting against life, because it feels like there is no place for them and without a positive or logical framework to work (which they usually have no knowledge of existing) then they become self-destructive, and for some reason it seems that there's a lucky few who find a way to go down a different path. It's great that you were able to turn your lfie around from such a nihilistic path-for every one of us that finds our way to FDR, there are probably a hundred people who start down the same road but never turn it around.

I meant to arrive at a stateless society-we can have and use guns in self-defense but to get to a stateless society guns are not "required" to be used to get there. To arrive at an anarcho-syndicalist society, guns/violence would (I believe) be needed, which is why I don't consider it moral or just, or sustainable in any long run sense. I mean guns with violence/aggression/violating the NAP.

Just because people label themselves "anarchist' doesn't make them that. I can call myself a dragon but no matter how much I believe it I am actually not a dragon. Trying to debate or even talk to an "anarco-syndicalist" or libertarian-socialist etc. is so frustrating because they are like a Frankenstein monster-espousing some ideas of merit combined with some of the most irrational stuff ever that denies human nature. I try to not even refer to them as anarchists because they can't be, at least not in any of the true definitions. It's just communism/socialism by taking a different road. As you said, anracho-capitalism is really the only logically consistent and moral path to a stateless society-it's the only one that doesn't require guns pointed at people to arrive at.