Mishelle

Hi Masonkiller, I apologize if my reply sounded harsh, I'm sure you have good reason for bringing up grammar. It's just that rarely does grammar have any significant impact on philosophy, not even Chomsky tries to make such parallels anymore! Sure they have been tried in the past by the best of linguists, but this is socio-linguistics and grammar is one of many angles used to make a generalization--under normal circumstances language changes too fast to force it to mean something terribly significant about anything. My immediate thought was this tendency to capitalize goes back to the Germanic linguistic tradition where all nouns are capitalized, making them stand-out, which helps in formulating the case-endings. With 16 cases and the noun spelling changing to accomodate it does make it easier to have the noun stand out! Whether this has anything to do with "Oneness" being capitalized seems to me to focus on the trees instead of the forest. Or maybe I'm just bias, as a foreign language teacher for 20 years nothing bores me, or my students, more than grammar. love & cheers Mishelle

Hi Ster, The link has to do with connecting Spriituality and Science, which is the foundation of this discussion on "Oneness" as far as I can tell. It's very basic and using a scientific approach to debunk some of the fundamental suppositions of science which conflict with spirituality. It's just an intro, but I've bought the book and will try to use it to continue my inquiry as I try to feel and think through where and how this oneness theory isn't sitting right with me. As for the community, I've learned a lot from them, and I'm hesitant to leave because of a few philosophical concerns which could very well by my own short-sidedness and based in intellectual assumptions and a general discomfort with that level of "intimacy" -- which is exactly what it feels like, very raw and profoundly difficult, and I rarely shy away from the hard stuff. Thanks for all your input, it really helps to explore ideas with people holding opposing viewpoints. love & cheers Mishelle

Why, masonkiller? Either contribute something meaningful or don't bother replying please, it wastes all our time. Cheers (notice capital and be as concerned as you wish!)

Just to be more clear, what this has to do with the "We are all One"--it's like with the link before from the Thrive Movement blog about talking to people about what they don't want to hear. She says talk from the "heart" first, in my community they call this the "We space". It all sounds perfectly fine and pleasant except I really feel a lack of authenticity about it. For example, in conflict, I'm to identify first and foremost with the other person's weakness, not my own strength. So if that person is terribly uninformed and I am not, I still must ask questions, to draw her in, instead of "tell her" what I know to be true after years of research! She hasn't a clue, I know what I'm talking about, but I must not speak or act from this place of knowing, but rather from her place of unknowing. It sounds good in theory, that's why I keep practicing it, but I still have that nagging feeling of "this is fake and I don't like it!" This is why I'm in continued inquiry around the "we are one" concept. thanks y'all for helping try to get it! m

This is a very thoughtful reply Ster and I appreciate it very much. It's not my own anger I'm concerned with, it's others' apathy and denial. While what you express here sounds very healthy, my frustrating experience with my "new age women's community" is that unless it is sugar-coated and cooed in language like a mother with an infant suckling at her breast, then something is "wrong" (with me) and I must re-enter some transcendental meditation space until I feel nothing again and then re-approach said-conflict. Everything must "feel good" -- it's truly exasperating! I am very good at meditation and finding my calm balance again, the problem is then trying to give a hoot about what it was (rightfully) bothering me when I wasn't there. That's why I mentioned impotence, this seems to be the goal, to be so non-threatening as even the weakest dove would not fly away. I am much more like your dogs in conflict and that feels much more authentic to me! BTW, wondering if you've seen this excellent clip - just ordered the book and really looking forward to digging deeper. http://www.collective-evolution.com/2013/04/10/banned-ted-talk-rupert-sheldrake-the-science-delusion/ love & cheers Mishelle ps, i will look at these books you quote, thank you!

Wow, some good exchanges here, appreciating all the input! Here's what's coming up for me overall--I know and feel my "oneness" as in "connection" with Life all the time, it's Others I often don't feel connected to, and this is not an illusion or something I'm just "feeling" without any objectivity. Stefan often talks about Anger and the important function it plays, this is a feeling that can be very much tied to objectivity and reason. I think it's dangerous to dismiss or deny our anger, or any other feeling--they exist for a reason and clue us in to "the greater field," and our own deeper selves. I'm not talking about being a slave to emotion here, but we should not be striving to become automatons! This constant striving for "happiness" as the meaning of life is tied in here too--happiness is NOT the meaning of life! Evolution is as close a meaning as there is, and it is often painful and unpleasant! What I'm hearing when Ken Wilbur and all the other New Age philosophers repeat constantly that we are One and somehow having this perspective will save the universe when IMHO in fact this will cause first Impotence and eventually Genocide. If my rational anger at abusers is continually squelched from where will I get the power and wisdom to read and therefor to stay away from such people? If I'm asked to Love and forgive every human Evil as if it is my own evil, when I know it is not mine, how could this endless sea of compassion possibly help anyone or evolve consciousness? There is nothing "new" in this New Age crap, it's as old as Faith, and it didn't work the first who knows how many times around, so why would it work now? enjoying our wee chat, thank you loves [] cheers Mishelle

Hi STer, Really appreciate this reply, supports the "feeling" I get when I hear this rhetoric of all being One. I've been thinking about it all week, and while intellectually I can wrap my head around the desire for folks to believe in our Oneness, I get an immediate body reaction that screams NO! I've actually recently heard from one New Age teacher that we should love others even when they are causing us suffering--whaaaaa?! He goes on with this BS to the degree he's saying the rape victim should be thankful for the experience of rape because it further enlightened her/him! Honestly, makes my stomach turn! thanks & cheers Mishelle

Hi Snipes, I'm glad you took this to the personal level, we can't skip over that and look only at the big picture. This makes a lot of sense, forgiveness is certainly in all our best interests ultimately. And still, this is routinely abused--just look at the Clintons--scandal after scandal since Arkansas, and folks just forgive and forget and now want her in the White House. It's sheer insanity!

Thanks for your reply The Robin, That was exactly the feeling I was getting, that these folks are trying to sell books and build empires and so they don't want to say anything folks don't want to hear -- like "The Secret" crap. I still believe there's A LOT of truth to that, but still, there's ancient wisdom there, otherwise it would not be so appealing! cheers Mishelle

David, I think we must be reading the same books! I've had some clarity around this in recent days, because what I was running up against is what felt to me like a real conflict between ethics and spirituality. If I must "identify as One" with the Tyrant, am I not then undermining my own conscious evolution, and frankly evolutionary superiority? And so I would go around and around with this, trying to understand what exactly the Gnostics meant. Then it hit me--we evolve as One. So, without the conscious evolution of the Tyrant society can never move forward, and so we get stuck and have to go back to the beginnings again and again. Evolution happens in bio-psycho-social waves and if that is being blocked by any powerful force ultimately no one really evolves. That's what I got so far, what do you think?! And yes, the syncronicity in my life at the moment is truly blowing my mind [] Hoping it keeps on cheers Mishelle

Hi again, Well the timing on this blog post is just so uncanny I had to share: here is the perfect example of informed "Green thinking" moving the conversation into 2nd tier worldview, and is speaking to exactly what I've been so concerned about! http://www.thrivemovement.com/how-share-difficult-information-without-losing-friendships.blog?utm_source=Sharing+Difficult+Information+with+Friends+WITHOUT+Losing+Friendships&utm_campaign=Eblast-+Conversation+tips&utm_medium=email I don't have time at the moment to explain my situation without the handy shorthand of SDi, but I will come back to you very soon if you are still curious. cheers Mishelle

Hi STer, Thanks for your reply and it's good to know, maybe you would have an opinion on my question around this. I'm involved with a community of women I've really come to emjoy and appreciate, who certainly consider their worldview to be 2nd tier. The thing is, when it comes to politics I find their views to be extremely Mean-Green-meme, and therefor naive. They of course find mine to be crazy and radical. I don't want to skip over this stuff with them, because a few of them are becoming more political and have the money and influence to make a difference. Do you have any thoughts how I might approach them about the fact that they are further empowering the system that's causing the problems? Just like the Green meme, they really mean well, but as DB says, in the 1st Tier every problem we think we solve creates a new set of greater problems to solve and they are really still stuck in the Hierarchal mindset. Any thoughts are welcomed! cheers Mishelle

Dear Stephan, One of the most fascinating thought-provoking concepts I've been following is Spiral Dynamics as a way to "map" and explain social change and conscious evolution. I'm wondering if you are familiar with it at all and if so, what is your take?

Dear Stephan and all, I'd love to hear your views and have a discussion on the ever-present "New Age" ideal of "we are all One" that is closely related to "love your enemies". While I understand the motivation behind this is peaceful and well-intentioned it seems to me it further feeds a tyrannical system. I can feel empathy for those perpetrating abuse, knowing of their suffering, but why must I identify with them as if they are me? Or as if somehow by loving them they will change from that love? I hope you'll help me see what I am missing here!