BaylorPRSer

It's an anger at feeling generally robbed. There's definitely a victim narrative playing in my mind a lot of the time. I was fed Adderall as a child and suffered from involuntary facial spasms that lasted until I was 19. They still show up occasionally, but they're manageable now that I've been off the drug for awhile. My parents have apologized for giving me the drug. The facial spasms coupled with the religious repression around sex were a one-two punch that eviscerated my dating life completely until I was 20. My anger stems from the fact that all of this could have been avoided. They haven't apologized for dragging me to church as they still believe "that particular activity is best within marriage." Also, I have a younger brother who incessantly insulted me to the tune of "Chris, you have no friends" or "Chris you're a dork" or "Chris you're not cool". When I developed acne he would routinely say "your zits are gross" while looking at me with a look of utter disgust. My brother eventually did apologize for "being an unbelievably shitty brother growing up" and I appreciated that; however, he still pisses me off occasionally. I think our history plays into it significantly though as he doesn't realize he's doing it. For example, my brother and some other people were talking about the film, "The Lone Survivor." I mentioned that a scene that really disturbed me was when Emile Hirsch's character was saying "my mom talked to me about what it was like, but she never said anything about this" after getting shot to pieces. I mentioned that I was rather disgusted at the thought of a mother encouraging her son to go get shot at for a living. My brother said, "well we have military families and we have to people in the military." I've heard my brother say, "I hate being told things I already know." Well, he knows that I'm aware that without people there would be no military, and that there are military families. His remark had no bearing on my being disturbed by that scene, so he inserted it for the sole purpose of being a dickhead. This has been playing in my head a lot lately and I keep thinking "damn, what a hypocritical piece of shit." There's a victim narrative when it comes to my dating life because I felt totally screwed when I was younger and thought "when I finally get a girlfriend, it will help with my social anxiety and my anxiety when it comes to the opposite sex." Well when I was 20, I did get a girlfriend, and it made the anxiety worse. At the end of my sophomore year, after just turning 20, my roommate hung himself on my ceiling fan. I had already left my college town as I knew that if I didn't get a job at the beginning of the summer, it would only get harder to find one. This was awful as we were very close. I'm 25 now and it haunts me still. That fall (junior year) I had my first girlfriend. Things started out pretty well and people said things like "you two have such good chemistry". Apparently, some of her girlfriends even asked her for advice because they wanted that in their own relationships. Things deteriorated over the course of the next year. My inability to maintain an erection about 75% of the time we had intercourse I'm sure had a lot to do with why she was having a hard time, but I made other mistakes as well. It got to the point where we were fighting a lot and I tried to break up with her. She threatened to kill herself multiple times to manipulate me back into the relationship. Then that christmas break she went home and cheated on me, when we came back for spring semester she broke up with me without mentioning that she cheated on me. She wouldn't leave me alone after breaking up with me. Eventually, she felt too guilty for hanging out with me without telling me she cheated, so she confessed. Me being completely smashed up from years of suffering, forgave her. Since then, I have apologized for the bulk of my mistakes. I called her out on threatening to kill herself and she said "oh if you think I was being manipulative than you don't know me at all." Completely devoid of any content, but she wouldn't apologize for threatening suicide against someone who had just lost a close friend to suicide a year ago. A buddy of mine told me I shouldn't have apologized for any of my mistakes. He has a dark view of women (he consumes some of the material at theredpill subreddit) and said "if you did it for your own moral sanity, that's fine, but she doesn't think your a better person for admitting you're wrong, and you will NEVER get that call where she acknowledges how wrong her actions were." She's done and said other things that pissed me off as well. I don't talk to her much anymore, but I still feel angry as fuck toward her. I haven't listened to those podcasts and I will. Thank you very much Kevin. As you can see from the above. I have a lot of thoughts as to where it comes from. That being said, I most definitely regard what I viewed as anger to be destructive, therefore, I'm inclined to think that what I'm experiencing is rage. I associate the victim narrative with the rage because it feels similar for some reason. The victim narrative will typically follow the rage and both feel very hard to break out of.

I'm an exceedingly angry person. I've heard Stef talk about how anger is involuntary, so the objective should not be to rid yourself of anger, but to be comfortable with it. I don't think I fall into the category of comfortable with my anger. Sometimes I find my anger distracting whether I'm at work, driving, applying for new jobs (not super-happy at my current position) or socializing. My anger levels reach the point where I am boiling probably once a day. I also cope with suicidal thoughts. Can anyone shed some light on what it looks and feels like to be comfortable with your anger? What does the journey to being comfortable with it look like? I've been journaling among other things, so is it just more introspection and self-knowledge? Sometimes my anger doesn't seem like something I was ever meant to be comfortable with. Being comfortable with the degree of anger I experience sometimes feels impossible.

Could someone point me to some passages that match the description in the subject? Would be very much appreciated.

The first thing I think of is how my mom would always take my guitar away from me when I didn't work on my homework. I did have a girlfriend after that event who definitely did that. The shit she pulled was terrifying, but that was after, maybe I'm unaware of a pattern somewhere? I've honestly spent a massive amount of time dwelling on the drugging. I wish it didn't happen it sucks. I have a tough time with accepting it and moving on. I tried talking to my mom and airing out some of my grievances and she got really defensive saying "how many times do i have to apologize?" "I'm sorry I'm not perfect, but I want to move forward". The adderall came up during the conversation and she said "how can we ever get anywhere if you don't forgive me for the adderall" I just want to be honest about the fact that part of me is stuck in the past and I feel as though she makes me uncomfortable with the fact that i haven't been successful in letting go. She doesn't really understand that it's not black and white. I just need to be able to talk calmly about things that piss me off and she makes it kinda tough. I've got beef with my dad too. I need to try sharing with him more as well.

Mulling all of this over still. I'll give a detailed response soon.

They fed me ADHD meds when I was young. They made me very unhappy and antisocial, but they made my grades improve drastically. After 3 to 4 years of the meds I developed involuntary facial spasms. These happened multiple times a day, from the 5th grade to my sophomore year of college. They have apologized for giving me the meds. Also, my younger brother had some sociopathic tendencies. He would routinely say things to effect of "Chris, you're stupid", "Chris, you don't have any friends" things like that. He would seem to make a point of amping up the insults whenever either of our friends were around to cause more embarrassment and push the boundaries of what he could get away with. Sometimes I regret not beating the shit out of him. Maybe if I had sent him to the hospital once he would have ceased the verbal abuse. Having your YOUNGER brother bully you is quite humiliating. They have apologized for letting him do this for the entirety of my childhood. Recently I've had an event playing over and over in my head: At the end of my sophomore year at Baylor, I left Waco and returned to Houston immediately after my last final. I lived in a house of 8 guys (4 rooms with 2 in each room) and I was the only one who left Waco that early. I was out looking for a summer job when I got a call from one of my housemates: Housemate: "Chris, how are things." Me: "Doing alright, just in Houston looking for a job." Housemate: "Well I've got some bad news. <other housemate> walked into your room this morning and <My roommate> hung himself on the ceiling fan. He's dead. The police are outside right now." I was completely stunned and I think I mumbled something and hung up. There was a party at my house the night before and <My roommate> left the party to his room b4 it ended. He was found hanging in the morning. I had an interview scheduled later that day at a restaurant. My dad made sure to mention not to talk about my roommate during the interview. I felt a little pissed off at the implication that I didn't already know telling someone about the fact that you were recently traumatized would make them less inclined to hire me, but whatever. I put on my happy face (which actually wasn't as hard as you'd think because it took 12 hours for the dam to break loose and I finally started bawling), performed for the interview and got the job. I went to Waco (I think it was Saturday) to process his death with others that knew him. That Tuesday (I want to say) he had his memorial service in Arkansas. His dad was a pastor at a church there where he gave the service. I attended and played a song that we both enjoyed for everyone at the service. My Dad flew there and back and attended the service with me. When I got back to Houston on Wednesday I began training for my waiter job at the restaurant. I think my first night of training was that Thursday followed by another night on Friday. I was fired from the job on Friday with the manager citing not putting enough effort into it as the reason (looking back I think i was just sick with grief and distracted). I had planned on going back to Waco that Friday after the training session because I had people there that I loved being around and thought it would take my mind off of my dead roommate. I was very excited about going back to Waco and spending the weekend there. When I got back to my house after getting fired, I started talking to my parents. When I mentioned that I still intended to go back to Waco, my mom gave me a look of utter disgust (one I'd definitely seen before) and started shouting something to the effect of "with what money"? Do you expect us to pay for you to go back to Waco so you can party all weekend? You need to look for a job so you can earn money, so we're not footing the bill for your spending money (we had agreed they'd pay for college, but i'd pay for my spending/gas money). She was essentially accusing me of being lazy, which was a motif of my childhood. I don't remember exactly what was said, but the look she gave stained my consciousness and I remember the clear implication that she thought I was lazy and didn't take getting a job seriously (despite the fact that I had managed to get a job, I just failed at keeping it). I was incredibly angered. This event has been on my mind lately. I've been procrastinating on bringing it up with her, but I finally did last night over the phone. She sent this email today and good god are a million things are racing through my head right now: Chris, I have thought about what you shared last night a lot. You say that after you were fired from Cypress Station (which I assume the timing is such that it was a week or so after you returned from Waco) you wanted to go back to Waco and I gave you a dirty look, and then wouldn’t let you go because I thought you needed to look for a job. Although I don’t specifically remember the incident, I do remember the time frame. I remember that we were devastated at what happened to Jordan, and we didn’t really know how to comfort or encourage you. If I gave you a dirty look, I can promise you that it was NOT because I didn’t love you, value you and care about you. It would probably have been because I didn’t think the decision you were making was a good one. I think Dad and I both thought it would be best for you to find a job as soon as possible before it was too late. It gets harder and harder as the summer goes on. Maybe that was not a good plan based on what you had been through. As I recall, you didn’t have much success finding a job, and it was a crappy summer for you. Finally, toward the end of the summer I suggested working for free at radio or TV stations to get some experience and keep you busy. I think I thought that if you were busy, you would have less time to be sad. I am sure that there were many mistakes we made because we just didn’t know what you were feeling or how to fix it. I am sure that I thought that a second trip to Waco was not a good idea on many levels (I thought, probably wrongly, that we could comfort you better at home, we knew getting a job sooner was going to be better than later, I doubt you had much money). Obviously, that trip to Waco was way more important to you than we thought. I say we because I was getting pressure from your dad to motivate you to get a job. And I was trying to protect you from some of the jobs he was suggesting for you. But again, I have no idea why I would have given you a dirty or mean look. Chris, I loved you so much and I still do. I wish you remembered some of the good things I did, like sit on the couch and talk about your day, sing to you at night and/or pray with you, wake you up in the morning with a silly song, have breakfast ready for you when you came down, bring you lunch to school, fix you snacks after school, help you with your homework. Thankfully, I don’t dwell on all the times you gave me a dirty or mean look or yelled at me or swore at me. I chalk those up to times when you were angry or frustrated and that you didn’t mean it. Similarly, when I ever said anything mean to you, it was out of frustration or anger (that doesn’t make it okay). I think you were and still are an amazing, compassionate, loving, loyal, kind human being with a ton to offer. I am sorry that you have had more than your share of struggles and I keep praying that things are going to change for you - that this next quarter of your life is going to be awesome. And again, I think you are awesome and I love you, and I am genuinely sorry for anything I ever said that was mean spirited or unkind. I promise you it was not because I didn’t love you – it was because I am not perfect either!! But I am trying to improve our relationship, and am enjoying the times we have spent together recently!! Love, Mom The idea that anything material they provided gave them any say or leverage over my existence pisses me off. They took an incalculable amount from me with the amount I suffered as a result from the tics/spasms coming up (not to mention other things). I'm also pissed that they don't understand that making an error to that degree gives me carte blanche to not give a flying fuck what they think. Also, the fact that my dad was suggesting demoralizing jobs such as loading boxes at a UPS HUB, working at a gas station, etc. just makes him a fucking cocksucker since my roommate just hung himself and all. I do remember the good things they did and sometimes I sincerely wish that they were just more obvious in their immoral ways. Because they also did good, their hurts had credibility. If they were just completely psychotic maybe I at least would have known to avoid them, say fuck school, I"m not taking these damn meds, fuck church, fuck god, fuck pretty much everything. The good things they did made me more susceptible to being hurt by the bad. Geez I'm fucking confused.

I'll be n public or at work and I'll make a commitment to not think about those things, but they have a way of "invading" my thought life and make it hard to stay on task or hold conversations. I'm sure part of it is that I'm scatter-brained and that's my personality, but I feel pretty strongly that trauma plays into it

I live alone, but still communicate with my parents and have dinner at their place sometimes (live about 30-40 mins away). They've apologized for most of what they did wrong, but not all. I'm working on slowly revealing my trauma to them, but I get overwhelmed sometimes. There was one particular incident that was replaying in my head that i wanted to talk to my mom about. She took me out to lunch yesterday, which made for a pretty enjoyable lunch break. I felt weird bringing up something negative that the person who was paying for my lunch did to me. I rationalized my way out of bringing it up and decided it was the wrong time. Hopefully, i don't chicken out for too much longer and talk to her about this. I'm working on developing the courage to talk to them about some of the darker resentments I have. For example, they did a piss poor job of getting me ready for adult relationships/sexuality. All of the religion and their lack of an honest description made me very uncomfortable with sex coming up and this is something I resent having to pay therapists and spend all of this time and anguish undoing as an adult. This is something that TERRIFIES me of talking about openly with them, but at some point, I know that I must if I'm to continue the relationship with them. I know I abruptly gave you a lot right there, so sorry if I got off on a tangent. I'll snag one of those books. Thanks for the rec.

I am having an issue with traumatic experiences preventing me from being present to the degree which I think is acceptable. I have been journaling, reading books and going to therapy when I can to work on these issues; however, I was curious, if you guys could recommend any resources specific to the idea of being present. Any recommended works on this particular subject?

Did a lot of introspection this weekend and I think I have a problem with attempting to "brutishly change my mindset". This is something that's left over from how I was raised and expectations put on me by my parents. It was like they would get mad if they told to do something a certain and then I didn't immediately start doing it that way. Also started a journal and checked out another Nathaniel Branden book. Just wanted to check in and let you know I've been thinking about your input. It's taking a second to sink in. I think my anxiety might be telling me to get my other shit handled. I need to take things one step at a time. I don't like my job. Nobody wants to be with somebody who hates their job. I'm sure there's more to my anxiety than that, but I'll work on getting to know it. Thanks a lot guys, I really mean it.

Yea I relate. I felt like I had to do all sorts of maneuvering when I was coming up. I never felt like I was doing it for me, but simply to get my parents off of my back.

I've gone for extended lengths without smoking and haven't noticed any differences. That being said, I know it won't help with my self-knowledge and is a waste of money, so I won't resume smoking. I've done a massive amount of introspection and have honestly given up hope that I can ever live a life without inner turmoil. You're right, this isn't just about getting some, it's not just about the ADD meds or the religious upbringing. It's not one thing. I feel like I'll spend the rest of my life introspecting before I have any kind of peace with that other stuff. With the amount of thinking I have done about my background, it seems inconceivable to me that more thinking about it will help. I can't even imagine what it would be like to not have inner turmoil. Of course, me not getting some isn't the cause of my inner turmoil. That inner turmoil WILL NEVER go away. I was thinking about a very specific anxiety and wanted to discuss that. I'm also open to discussing more general and root anxieties. The anxiety I initially posted about seems like something I could handle if I put my mind to it. The other sources of inner turmoil are just stuck there. They're too deep seeded. No amount of meditating, therapy or self-knowledge can make them go away. I know I'm coming off as stubborn, but I can't make peace with my roommate's death or the tics for the life of me. I'll get a different therapist when I have some more cash and work on these things some more. If only quitting my job were an option. I've got bills and a car payment unfortunately. I'm open to the idea that I have barriers of which I'm unaware that are preventing you from getting through to me. I WILL continue to introspect and try to gain more self-knowledge. Kind of rambling here, but if I keep introspecting, I'll die alone.

I've actually read how to raise your self esteem by Nathaniel Branden. I don't think I read anything in there that helped me. I'll start keeping a journal and maybe check out some more books to see if that helps. I do think about the years I had the tics and my upbringing in general constantly. I have for awhile. I'm not sure that more introspection is the answer, but who knows, maybe I'm not introspecting correctly and I'll learn that through journaling.

I was diagnosed with ADD and put on the meds at 7 or 8. I'd feel very zombie-like, the class would erupt in laughter and I'd just get kind of annoyed. My parents would always ask me how I felt when I got home and I'd note that I wasn't feeling talkative and lost my appetite. When I was 10 or 11 I had a teacher request my parents up my dose (I was actually never at a particularly high dose in comparison to some other kids). The month that happened, the tics began. I was immediately put back down on the original dose, but the tics did not subside. It became my choice to take it during high school, so I was taking it on an on again off again basis. I was in all upper level classes and would get overwhelmed easy. I simply couldn't focus without it, so at that point I did technically CHOOSE to take it, but it wasn't on a consistent basis anymore. Everything up until that point was not my call. Believe me, I am extremely angry about it and have been for years. I wasn't on ADD meds when me and my girlfriend were together. However, the year before I met her, my roommate hung himself on my ceiling fan. I was back home in Houston looking for a summer job when I got that call. I had a friend who was a neuroscience major who was convinced I had OCD and not ADD and got fucked with a misdiagnosis. He had been extolling the use of SSRIs to me and then after that happened, I figured I should try them out. I was actually on those meds when I was with my girlfriend. I am no longer on any prescription meds and do not know if the time I spent on them left any permanent damage to my libido. I will acknowledge that I do smoke marijuana with varying degrees of frequency at present. Sometimes once a day. Sometimes once every other week. My habits with it tend to change. I was in therapy for 6 months and quit recently. I was not getting results. That being said, I was bitching about my job a lot, so I guess I need to get that taken care of first and then resume therapy? What about the fact that humans need physical connection? The lack of physical connection with a woman at present is constantly distracting me and affecting my performance at work and my ability to focus on the task of finding a different job that I'm more suited. I don't think I specifically said I was looking for an exclusive relationship with a woman during this thread. Thanks a lot for the help peeps

I've tried online dating. Haven't had any luck. One date has resulted and I didn't feel any reason to pursue that one further. It's possible my profile needs work and that's why I haven't done well with it? My approach to online dating has been have a fun care free vibe in the profile and try to keep it light when talking to the girls. I can get chats going, but it's hard to get them out. I guess I will look for more social things to do. I do go to bars occasionally, which are places where people are expecting to socialize so I'll start focusing on chatting more there. I would like to add that I think the years of embarrassment and loneliness when I had the facial spasms probably caused more anxiety than the religion. I was so withdrawn and internalized that way of living, that it's hard for being social to feel natural for me. Another source of anxiety is sex itself. With my girlfriend several years ago, I would repeatedly be unable to maintain an erection during sex. I felt extremely bad for her and felt as though I was lowering her self-esteem. I hate my job, am not suited for it, and frankly suck at it. All of this for 40 hours a week is killing me and ramping up the anxiety. I'm looking for other jobs, but this one has done a lot of damage to me already as I've been there for 1.5 years now. You're right about the anxieties being self-prescribed though. I keep etting inside my head for no reason. I'll work on reframing my mindset to think "I wonder what sort of things in life are important to this girl" when I start interactions.

When I am considering talking to an attractive woman for the first time, my brain starts going through the database of excuses. "She won't like me", "she'll think I'm corny or unoriginal", "my job at the moment isn't good enough", "I don't make enough money", "she's too hot", "she probably has a boyfriend anyway", "I'm just not feelin it", "this just isn't your style, you're more of a loner". One time I was going to talk to a girl in my apartment complex and my heart started pounding and my brain started racing. That time I actually couldn't think of any excuses, but I felt so incredibly nervous I just skipped it. It's an anxiety I've barreled through b4 and I rarely regret doing so, but if there's a way to leave it in the past, I'd like to. Maybe you're right, it's just a normal anxiety, but I still think I have it to an extreme.

Well if I had women in my social circle whom I could select based on values I am already aware, then this advice would be relevant. Since, I don't have that as an option, I sort of have to start the interaction not knowing anything about the woman's values. I'd love to be at a place where I could filter out women who don't share my values. I'm not there yet. This is why I'm mainly interested in tackling the anxiety, so I can get to the place where I'm actually learning these things about the girl to see if we're compatible. If I have debilitating shyness/anxiety, my ability to get the ball rolling and get that information will be greatly reduced. I do want meaningful relationships with ethical women, not just sex. Your input was very helpful, but I don't see any way around the looks thing. If I can't see myself getting it up for the girl, then why waste her time or mine? I'm not the pickiest guy in the world. I don't need a 9 or a 10. I just need to feel some sort of physical response in myself.

Well, I'm still trying to figure out if the first part is relevant to my situation. Yes, I want to sleep with attractive women that I talk to, but I don't come right out of the gates with anything sexual, or anything that involves complimenting her looks really. I've typically been leaning on the more innocuous side when starting a conversation with an attractive stranger. Does that clear up my situation at all?

The whole small talk thing actually does cause feelings of anxiety. I'll start to overthink things and feel "fake" for making small talk. Or I'll start to overthink to the point of talking myself out of saying something to a stranger because what I was going to say wasn't "genuine", "spontaneous" or "in the moment" enough.

I'd say I work up the nerve to talk to 1 in 100 attractive women i see. Talking to attractive women at the gym, at the doctor's, etc. is kind of my only option as I don't have any sexually available women in my social circle. Even when I talk to the 1 in 100, I'm still extremely nervous and have to "force" myself to do it. I have a lot of self-knowledge (or at least I think I do) as to where this shyness/anxiety comes from. However, now that I know, the road ahead doesn't seem any clearer. I still feel really anxious and spending a massive amount of time processing the source of the anxiety hasn't really helped eliminate that feeling. Is the only solution to barrel through this wretched feeling over and over until it's not there? This is what I'm starting to think, but I feel very overwhelmed by the idea of it. I think the source of it is childhood. The Christian views I was fed on sex really messed with my head and left me with a lot of guilt. Also, I was very anti-social due to ADD medication which had me feeling zombified at school and not wanting to talk to anyone, least of all attractive girls. I also had side effects including highly embarrassing facial spasms that resulted from the meds. Needless to say, I didn't feel highly confident and didn't talk to girls. I had one date in high school, didn't lose my virginity until I was 20 and that was also my first girlfriend. I've had one other girlfriend who dumped me after a week and still have only slept with one girl. I'm 25 now. The ingredients seem to be there for such an anxiety, but now that I've been off of the meds and my facial spasms have subsided, I'm no longer religious and I'm not a virgin, so why can't I shake the anxiety? I feel exceedingly confused about this issue and any help would be appreciated.

Gotcha. I understand now. Good advice guys.

"If the other party is someone that really cares about you, then it's one thing, but I suspect it can just as easily reveal something worse as it can turn a relationship into something better." Didn't understand this sentence. Can you rephrase it maybe? Steve, the videos were helpful. I'll write more about my situation when I have more time.

I'm not saying I have to start with that. In fact, I agree that starting from childhood experiences and keeping it as close to the ground up as possible is ideal, but if the ultimate goal is for us to arrive at a place where we as honest as possible about our thoughts and feelings, then my gut tells me it needs to find a way out of head and out in the open.

I tried explaining why I am an anarchist to my family and they haven't been particularly accepting. We have had some rocky times together, but we are in a pretty good place now in terms of relating respectfully. That being said, certain things still come up and it's clear that my family needs counseling. We are gearing up to get some family counseling and I am planning on explaining why I take NAP so seriously in its universal or near-universal application. Is there any reason why family counseling wouldn't be a good environment to do this? I am resisting the urge to do it now because I think in a more controlled environment with a 3rd party mediator would be preferable. I at this point have not explained that supporting a state means that they want me and those who hold my beliefs thrown in jail, but it is something that has been on my mind.

Martymer is a little harsh, but I am really enjoying his critiques.