BlackHeron

You sound really upset and hurt and I'm sorry to say that I'm having a hard time understanding what it was that specifically upset you as the initial post mostly deals in generalities and doesn't delve into very many specifics. It seems to be all attack in all directions, drawing fire from the masses so to speak. Grasping and taking on the self-ownership self-ruling scepter of philosophy and stepping out into a world of solid rights and wrongs can sometimes be very hard. The complex mecosystem inside our brains rebels and shies away from some ideas that cause us to dredge up things that make us very uncomfortable thinking about, or accepting. I know I had a few rough spots when I first started listening to Stefan and it took a while for me to do some real thinking and gain some self-knowledge. A lot of my objections to non-violent parenting and UPB were actually my parents talking inside/through me. They really didn't like to hear what Stefan was saying and they were screaming inside my head with objection after objection to beat these ideas back. You are not going to get a lot of folks here who are going to argue for the side of statism and the violence and coercion it represents. There is not much sympathy for the devil here, or for people who hit and even mutilate defenseless children. As bad as the state is it is just an external manifestation of the dysfunctional families that raise traumatized children. The state is just a shadow cast on the wall by traumatized adults trying to recapture, re-live, and process that trauma they experienced as they grew up. I think it would be better to step back and take a few breaths rather than purposefully flounce and draw the ire of everyone by attacking us all en mass. I don't think it really serves a good purpose other than to relive some sort of unprocessed pile-on behavior you may have been subjected to as a younger person. Perhaps instead of over-engaging it might be better to just read and not let yourself get drawn into arguments and unproductive flame wars. Perhaps find someone to talk to about your difference of opinions in a smaller group structure or one-on-one. Maybe even try and call into the show and talk to Stefan himself. They will move you to the front of the queue if you really have serious disagreements to iron out. It makes a good show too. I don't like to see someone figuratively pour gas on themselves and attempt a forum self-immolation here. It makes me sad to read your initial post. I'm sorry you are so upset and seem to feel you are not being heard and/or belittled by an overwhelming mass of people who disagree with you. That isn't a fun place to be. I wouldn't want to pull that kind of attention and aggravation onto myself, and I don't think you really want to do that either. I would hope there are better ways to disagree than this.

Unfortunately I can't make it this weekend. I've got a scheduling conflict all weekend. Maybe next time.

Thanks for that clarification. This seems to be a very wise policy. I did once bump into the vote limit on a long day of reading the board. This discussion on user-generated reputation systems piques my interest because I've often thought about the way a similar system has been gamed on the Amazon Review pages. It seems certain people get offended at some reviews that they disagree on (especially in the books sections) and will then proceed to stalk that reviewer, down-voting a number of their other reviews and destroying their reviewer ranking in the process. Amazon doesn't seem to care about this problem at all, which is one of the reasons I gave up giving them free reviews for nothing but grief from trolls on their network. I had worked my way up to be a top 1500 reviewer in the hopes of becoming a Vine reviewer and maybe getting some free stuff to review someday. But my hopes were smashed when my reputation suddenly went from 96% to almost 90% in a couple of days. In my book anything under 95% is not "A work" and if I can't do "A work" then I'm in the wrong writing class...

I agree. When I've said or done something that has been unpopular with my peers and friends I like to have that feedback. I also do like the suggestion that there be some personal feedback included that gives more information as to what the offense (or helpfulness) was specifically. The black box system doesn't really give the person much to go on for facilitating personal growth. Maybe a drop-down of 4-5 possible reasons multiple-choice. Since anyone can vote, donator and non-donator alike, it seems that there is a potential for abuse from the very people the system was intended to protect the community from. Perhaps a system where donator status or even the person's own reputation is considered when up or down-voting other people. Maybe the reputation of the person voting up or down should be considered when weighting their up or down votes to keep troublemakers from gaming the system.

QED

There is a difference between people who are occasionally acting unreasonably, and those who simply are unreasonable. To be unreasonable is to be beyond reason. Words mean things.

Dealing with unreasonable people, when you don't need to, is unreasonable. It's not about them, it's about you. You can't change people, and it's not your job. If they are truly unreasonable then do ahead and go Galt on them, not for the purpose of changing their minds but simply to preserve your own. Avoiding poison people is self-defense.

Agree, alcohol only lets out the inner self that is repressed normally. But it might be that the repressed sober self does feel guilt/regret over what the uninhibited self did while under not under the influence of their repressed inhibitions. Alcohol doesn't make nice people into assholes, it just lets the buried asshole out. But it isn't always necessarily a bad thing. I've met a few people who were actually more likable and real when under the influence than when they are sober. This can go both ways. Inhibitions are not always positive influences.

Jimmy Kimmel is a real piece of work.

I also was feeling cold. So I went to the magic god on the wall and prayed to it, passing my hand repeatedly over the prayer knob until the magic number 72 appeared. Lo, and behold! It got warmer soon after this in my condo! Praise be unto the magic god on the wall!

Where can I find a Stefan bust? It would be nice to have one in bronze or ceramic that I could put on my mini shelftop-altar next to Kali, Shiva, Cthulhu, and a couple other small gods. Seriously. Some people collect stamps or bottle caps. I like to collect gods & goddesses as curiosities. I've been looking for a Nuggan*, or maybe an Anoia (The minor goddess of Things That Stick in Drawers) to add to my collection. A Molyneux would be another worthy addition. *Chocolate AND garlic are both abominations unto Nuggan -that is just cruel!

Man created god in his own image.

Define "god." If one defines "gods" as merely anthropomorphic projections of our individual human consciousnesses within our own MEcosystem, inside our own heads, then OK.

Maybe it should cost a dime every time someone wanted to push that up or down button. It would be interesting to see if people cared enough about it to put some coin behind their vote, with all the money going to FDR. That's really putting your money where your mouth is, a little skin in the game

If I went to a pro-spanking site and didn't get downvoted, or worse yet got upvoted, I would be extremely disappointed in myself. That said, reputation systems tend to isolate and expel unpopular opinions. This is a natural and normal meme engine in any human culture. In a healthy community it keeps the troublemakers out and is a fairly egalitarian way of policing poor behavior in a forum like this. In an unhealthy community, or an immoral one such as the pro-spanking community mentioned earlier, it tends to keep the voice of reason at bay and isolated from positive ideas that might be able to change things. Sure, the system here only collapses the unpopular speech instead of outright censoring it. But many people don't tend to read beyond the default view. Perhaps there is something to be said for free-thinkers wanting to see what the down-voted comments say. I'm of mixed minds when it comes to these reputation systems. In a way they do tend to stifle free expression and don't let the cleansing sunlight of openness into the conversation. Nothing outs a jerk like everyone reading the jerk's self-admitted jerky behavior. I've been on many forums where the unpopular views of the voluntaryist get buried pretty quickly by these downvotes from the legions of Mrs. Grundys jumping on the hush button. It's happened to me a few times over the years. I basically got blacklisted at the old Everybock website here in chicago for espoucing voluntaryist viewpoints. Go figure, making enemies of unvirtuous people is a mark of respect in my eyes. The sword cuts both ways. I personally like seeing a reputation number next to people's profiles. But I don't like to see people's unpopular posts buried in the shadows and hidden from the purifying light of the sun. I'm new here. Because of the nature of this community and my respect for those who pursue virtue and philosophy I hope I will gain reputation points and don't drop out of sight instead. Then again, that sword does cut both ways and I'm going to judge the community by the "reputation" I get within it for expressing what I feel and KNOW is right (philosophy) every bit as those people are judging me. Show me what you've got folks.

I was listening to the show today and heard Mike and Stef mention using the FDR Amazon Affiliates link code when posting product links online. I tend to participate in quite a few forums around the internets, and especially on Google Plus. I'm really into bicycles and bicycle mechanics so I tend to get excited about certain bike-related products and communicate my excitement to others of like mind by posting Amazon product links to some of most exciting of them to illustrate what I'm talking about or that there is a deal going on. Usually I will use a forum's hyperlinking function to make these links more readable or, when in Google Plus or other areas where such a function is not available, I'll use the Google URL shortener site make a nice neat little link that doesn't eat up lines and lines of ugly link text. So, not being the best at coding skills I wondered if I someone could walk me through what is exactly required when posting a product link appended with the FDR affiliates link. Do I just search for my product on Amazon like I usually do and place the fdrurl.com/amazon code after the link with no spaces and a / between the end and the part? Tell me if this is right: If I wanted to post online about how I really would love to buy a new Park Tool Professional Pedal Wrench that hyperlink I just made would do the trick and also help out FDR if/when someone clicked on it and then went on to buy that product, or purchased something else on amazon if they wandered off that product while still on Amazon's site? Would it be the same if I were to just use the shortened link http://goo.gl/zet7JF i -would get to the same target? Or is there some sort of thing I can sign into on Amazon's site that would automatically make any link I cut/pasted from my amazon searches append the fdrurl.com/amazon code to it? Heck, I buy a crapload of stuff on Amazon and I might a well help out by adding the link to all my own purchases as well. Is this possible automatically? I don't work for Park Tools but I do like their stuff and often link them in conversations, or maybe their competitor's Pedro's Tools or IceToolz. But I'm basically sending folks to Amazon for free and not getting a penny out of my recommendation. But if I could help out FDR I think it would do the world a lot of good getting Philosophy out into the world and if my efforts to here helped just one parent stop hitting their children I would count that as a win for humanity.

The last time I was summoned for jury duty I was called up for different 3 jury selection sessions over the day of eligibility. When asked if I could be an impartial juror in the case after they had introduced the assistant DA, the defendant, his attorney, and all the named possible witnesses I honestly said that I could not trust the testimony of the police. I stated that because, after a many personal interactions with them, I know they are untrustworthy profession (and the people drawn to such a job) and will often lie and bend the facts to get their way/win and lie/falsify information to back each other up -always. It wasn't a popular opinion on the other side of the bench but other prospective jurors were pretty much all nodding their heads. When a juror is dismissed off of the bench they have to wait at the back while they get their 12 people whittled down so I was able to watch the aftermath. Other jurors used similar tactics after I broke that ice. Maybe I planted some seeds. But as someone mentioned above, I suppose I got put onto some secret lists for my anti-authoritarian viewpoint.

Exactly. Who is this "we" person/persons who are doing all of this, "making government more x?" That's what I want to know. Might as well try and infiltrate the local mafia gang and try to convert it from the inside into a charitable organization.

Maybe she just isn't ready to get into a more adult, intimate relationship with somebody. Maybe she is just "not that into you" although you do say she initiated everything up to this point. Did you say she never had a prior "boyfriend?" But yet she initiated things with you, which is a very straightforward thing to do coming from someone with very limited experience. Maybe she is just testing the waters. That's a good strategy for a young woman, or a young man. You guys are both very young, and your brains are not yet fully developed. I would say let nature take its course here. She could always come around for another pass if she is still interested, or maybe later when she is more ready for intimacy. Plus there will be many others in the sea. There are billions of women in the world, many of them are broken and/or messed up in such ways that make them poor choices to get into a relationship with (this goes for men as well.) Of the ones that are not broken a good number of them may not be compatible with you or share the same interests as you. Finding a friend is hard enough, but someone to be more intimate with is a long process of sifting through hundreds if not thousands of potential women (or men) out there until you find a virtuous, non-broken candidate to even go to the next step with. The process can, and probably should take years. Don't settle for the first piece of driftwood that washes up on your shores. You are young, have fun, date around, get a feel for the geography of the ocean you are fishing in. Don't fill your lifetime bag limit on the first day out on the boat.

But roooooooooaaaaaaaadssssssss.....

I have a saying that goes, "Statists gonna State." I totally hear what you are saying here. It's like a mind-trap. There is no such thing as a "libertarian party" in lower caps nor a "Free State." The LP isn't. But we are dealing with people who have been brainwashed by generations of public school and state indoctrination. There is a great quote from The Matrix that goes like this: I'm sure the people who get involved with the LP feel that they are helping. Perhaps they feel that somehow the Republic can be restored and the Constitution raised from the dead like the rotting paper zombie document that it is. But in the end they are all just another pawn on the street ready to channel an agent to do the dirty work of the State. Fight to protect it they will. They are just not yet ready for the full medicine of voluntaryism.

I think Stefan gives the best advice about sounding out new relationships. I wish I had known someone like him 25 years ago to give me the same advice. Ask her about her childhood and discuss it. Ask about her relationships with her parents and her siblings. Ask about her experiences at school and how her family supported her in dealing with her school and other outside of the family social interactions. It's always best to map out the minefield before you ever decide to take that first step into it.

The wife and I spent many cold winter nights inside playing Diablo2 in LAN mode. It's a pretty fun game to play together and it has the added benefit of supporting up to 8 players in LAN mode. I no longer have a winblows box but I hear that it is possible to get the old game to work on Linux in some sort of emulation mode. It's been a couple of years since we played but it was always a lot of fun -especially when we could get friends to come over and make a LAN gaming party. We never really enjoyed all the BS that went on playing over in Blizzard's public D2 servers. So much cheating and hacking and kiddie flame BS. I've often thought about trying D3 but there is no LAN mode and I really disliked the childish BS of the public servers so we never tried it. The nice thing about D2 on LAN mode is that it is pretty much free, and I had a bunch of programs to run gear stashes and whatnot so we could jump off playing fun rather than scrabbling at first to find decent gear. Like it was said above, the oldies can be goodies.

It's nice to meet you too Melesina. I don't meet many voluntaryists in Chicago proper. I sometimes feel like the only octopus on the moon here in town. I would love to come to a meetup if my schedule permits. Let me know as soon as you can when it is going to happen and I will certainly pencil it into my calender.

Thank you for the replies. I would also like to apologize for plonking this discussion down into the wrong section of this forum. I'm fairly new here and got a little bit confused as to where I "was" when I wrote this post. I suppose it should have been in the general discussion section and not here in Economics. Perhaps it could be the Economics of calling the police versus a DRO. The mods should, of course, feel free to move it anywhere it would better belong. I have called the police once years agao and I lived to regret it. It became a very expensive day for me although it would have been fairly expensive regardless as my crazy X was raving (reavering?) and tearing the house apart with her bare hands and at the moment. I didn't know what else to do. Calling the police was not a good option, but I still don't know what a good option was. The best option would have been to pick a much better partner. I can own that error without self-attacking. I'm in a much better place now. There are times today when I think about calling the cops to come roust the drunks/druggies who try and crawl up under my deck off of the alley (I live in Chicago) and pass out just inches outside of my bedroom window. I usually go out and tell them to leave myself, but very late at night when they wake me up with their steam engine snoring outside my widow I sometimes don't feel like trudging out into the cold dark night to confront some drugged-out crazy person who's passed out and feels cornered because he has nowhere else to go/turn to. I will often just let them be if knocking on the window and telling them from inside isn't working. The other neighbors in my building have no compunction to calling the cops on these street folk when they are crawling into and under our condo building and the cops usually just haul them off to detox to sleep it off in a nice warm cell. The neighbors tell me it's almost impossible to get the cops to come if they tell them it's a homeless guy but if they tell 911 that it is a "suspicious person" lurking around someone's bedroom window it's amazing how much faster they show up.