Holo Cene

Ok, I hope people will glean whatever they can from my illogical, unfounded, lies.

I hope you have a great Christmas. All of us are kindred spirits so you're never really alone. We are all just separated by distance is all.

I think he is a rare once in a lifetime genius. Had he not had the terrible childhood he had, he would probably be a billionaire.

What does government and taxes have to do with consuming and minimalism? They steal from me so I must then live an ascetic's life? You aren't very rational are you? I think it would benefit you to examine the emotions behind your philosophy, and learn why you believe what you believe. If morality is the backbone of your philosophy then you have to examine the moral premises because ultimately to you, humanity is evil. That has always been the foundation of any religion or political movement interested in controlling other people.

What a great thought experiment. Has my mouth agape, staring at the wall. I think the clone wouldn't be alive simply because there has to be more than just atoms, it is the history of those atoms and the relationships between them.

If you are dating him hoping for something more serious, I think you might have to re examine some things. He is in jail, he has an addiction to drug, he has a violent past. Why are you attracted to him? I'm not trying to be judgmental here, I just think he isn't the best choice in a mate.

You have a moral crusade against technology and modern life. Not showers. You would be withdrawing from evil, so stop equivocating and stop using your computer.

I don't want to go to jail? I use my computer because I paid for it with the money I made doing work and I do not have a moral compunction against using technology. To the contrary I love technology. I do not drive. You have no consequences for not using a computer. So stop using one.

How do you even justify using a computer?

So what point are you making? Are you disagreeing with me just to disagree?

There are a few points I think are worth noting. The fact that you watch a children's show as grown "men", has to engender some knowledge that there will be persecution. It is completely against the grain of mainstream ideals of manhood and so must thwart the man's attempt to fit into the male model. This will entail his complete exclusion from most mating paradigms where the female has had her sexual ideals indocrinated from youth, without mentioning the biological factors. The energy placed in fandom, as any fandom I think has at its core an inability to relate to oneself. Wouldn't it be more beneficial using that energy to explore oneself and to find out the deep well of ones own charisma, courage and beauty? It does have a community of people who enjoy the show together but ultimately, isn't this need to escape into a children's tv show just escaping from the trauma of childhood? Personally I think it's fine if it can be used as a bridge to other things, or as a form of brain candy. If it stretches into this involved lifestyle I have to question the motivation and intention behind the behavior. If the bronies could turn the group meetings into places where people can have genuine interactions and relationships with people of similar taste and mind frame then it would be amazing. If they could talk about their childhood traumas and share growth and learning. I don't think the fandom would last after that though since they are dealing with the underlying issues and have basically created a community around them which is what they wanted anyways.

Why do you feel like you owe a person who doesn't answer you back anything? I think it is a valuable opportunity to examine the emotions that are brought up by the whole situation.

So you have no problem talking to women and yet you stereotype all of them as being soul sucking vacuum bags of emptiness. Is it a wonder that you get along so well with them? Who said that was the only way to identify self perception? I assume you are a proponent of MGTOW. Can you elaborate on why it is the best solution?

I really get the distinct impression he hopes women will open their legs for him after his shitty poem.

While you make great points, i'm not naive about the hypergamy/feminism paradigm. I am not claiming that it will solve the problems of male society. What I am advocating is that we do not abandon ship, and then claim all hope is lost. I think it's an emotional reaction born out of rage and frustration. That just worsens the problem, because we are not adapting and will fall by the wayside of life. There is no reason to stop trying to do good, especially in an arena that our biology primes us to partake of. We are always prompted by our biology to go out and try to put sperm to egg. A denial of this is a denial of self, because you are not separate from your sexual drive, one of the most intense and powerful of our humanity. There is a hypocrisy inherent in this arena since it is such an unexamined portion of life, that we have a lot of emotional energy behind. There is a lot of idealization of love and romance, and the observation and awareness of the process would be an enlightening experience. I think PUA does away with the illusions to an extent and forces one to face the reality of modern love, be it horror or beauty. I do understand the counter argument for sure, but it serves no function other than to self pity and to play the martyr. I am definitely no one to argue that people cannot make the decision to say fuck it and fuck women. There is so much to learn about oneself simply by going up to a random woman and speaking to her. You get nervous. Why? You don't know what to say. Why? You feel the oppression of your failures. Why? She is responding poorly to you. Why? She smiles at your joke, and you feel like a million bucks. Why? It is absolutely amazing the things you find lurking behind the veil of your own self perception.

Ok. Is there a point to any of the objections?

There is probably some tie into your sexuality as they were beginning to make out before the cannibalism started. I think that anything tied to the sexual function will have dramatic impacts on the intensity and severity of the issue since the sexual impulse is so powerful. Just a thought about it, because I know that the road to sexual liberation, especially being gay is paved with the horrors of peoples hatred, judgment, and anger.

It isn't really even PUA, its just some people that have tried monetizing a "system" but it is through this market incentive that such ideas reach the mainstream, otherwise the people who know about and have the skills usually keep it to themselves, because otherwise, why would they want to increase the competition? Ultimately, it is just a skill, and if the PUA movement didn't exist any man who wanted good women would have to learn it. Celebrities don't have a monopoly on this skill, its just they have the rare benefit of having women line up around the corner to fuck them . What would you do with this bevy of attractive women? I don't know if the answer is that clear. It's a very interesting topic and definitely worthy of discussion and I mean this is like guy crack, talking about how to attract women. It's like we do it for sports, gambling, working out, business, but when it comes to women, men get a little touchy. The main point being the more men in the game the more men women have to choose from, which means that men will have to up their game, and perhaps things like reputation and virtue might matter again because everything gets elevated with more competition.

Lets forget PUA for a second. Dating is a marketplace and women will always be the selectors. They have the final say on mate choice. As long as this is the case, men must approach women. Women will not approach men, though there is always the exceptions by and large this is the rule empirically verifiable by being around women. What I am arguing against is this moral outrage at having to approach women. You have to do it, plain and simple. Men who refuse because they think women are shallow and gullible have no idea what they are talking about, because they don't approach women and find out if what they say is true. Go out and find out if what you think is actually reality and not some concocted story you use in order to protect your ego from identifying with the real problem, a lack of courage. If men of integrity don't approach women then we leave it to the d-bags and the assholes and that, is my point . My "inner life" is something I am developing. How PUA relates to that is that I want to find a good woman to share it with. I can only do that if I talk to different women and date them. PUA is just a name for approaching women and talking to them. People share that information gained through experience, sometimes at a price and we learn and grow as a community. It isn't anything more than that. Now how people use it or misuse it is a personal matter based on personal choices and responsibilities. Anything else is just judgments based on very little information. Let's not call it PUA then, lets call it the Anti Hypergamy Objective with the Goal of Freeing Men from the Collective Despair of Moral Indignation. AHOGFMCDMI. AHOG for short.

I think there is an inherent bias and a blindness in your analysis. The generic formula is not separate from any experience with a skill set and attracting women is most definitely a skill set. The reason we are talking about "PUA" specifically because it is taught and people have objections to this specific skill set being taught. They believe it is inherently immoral and manipulative, not understanding that EVERYONE who interacts successfully with women is doing just that, using learned behaviors and tactics in order to impress women. All you have to do is examine your own process in interacting with women to see the truth.

This completely discounts social dynamics in its entirety. You have to introduce yourself. You have to prove to the person of your benevolence. You have to indicate some sort of social value to the person. You have to take into account who the person you are talking to, you can talk about UPB and philosophy but most people will run from the truth, not just women. Intellectual content isn't some end all be all of judgment of a persons worth. Far from it. Nature take its course? You are acting in a fashion based on learned techniques and attitudes adjusted from experience. What you claim is natural is just unconscious, unspoken PUA. Looks get you attention. It is how you speak and carry yourself that women will react to. This is the heart of PUA. It takes men and helps them to achieve this learning process, especially men who have problems doing so. This is a complete strawman. You conflate PUA with prostitution as if it was even remotely close, that is just dishonest and rather appalling.

For me it was just beginning with emotions. I picked up Nathaniel Brandon's book about self esteem as Stefan had suggested and am going through it slowly. The main thing that I started doing was just actually trying to recognize what my emotions were. I had lived my life without them and had no idea what I felt, or when I felt or how I felt. Nothing, I had never processed any of it. The first thing that happened after this was I started having vivid dreams and then I would try to analyse the content to see what my unconscious was trying to tell me. This is from someone who never remembered any dreams, the self relation was non existent. I haven't really applied to any one principle as I'm just exploring. I know instinctively that I can't rush it even if I wanted to. Let me tell you about a fragment of a dream that helped me to understand something about my inner life. I saw vividly in my dream a shrunken woman, she was young but completely wasted away and had wrinkled skin and her breasts were tiny sagging limp. She was completely naked and seated with her body turned away from me. I awoke and immediately began trying to understand it because I didn't want to forget the dream as that usually happens by morning. I interpreted the woman as my inner nurturing, the embodiment of how I mothered myself. She was emaciated, and in pain. She lacked the nutrition of her breasts and was facing away from me as if I had turned her away. I needed to grow and to feed and keep healthy this part of myself as I had neglected myself for so long. I needed to treat myself like a mother would, gentle and kind, with assurance and with love.

I went through some similar issues you had in your childhood, though not quite as severe. My parents were completely uninvolved in my life, my dad abandoned us and my mom was a complete narcissist. No thought or care was given to my well being, needs, emotional life, dreams, goals. No questions and no awareness. I was not a person to my mother, just an implement of her will. The problem is that my inner life, my personality never realized itself. It never had room to grow as I had developed a personality and built it to be completely at my mothers beck and call. When I tried to break away from this I would be completely paralyzed because I had no idea what I wanted or what made me happy. After listening to Stef for 5 or so months, i realized that I had no emotional life. I had completely shut it off, and did not even register emotions. My feelings were of no relevance to my life. I have been trying to rebuild that inner life, by slow process and work. I think one of the problems, like mine is that you do not have an inner life. You therefore do not know what makes you happy, or excited. These emotions are what guide us to our goals and our desires. They are worthy of knowing, and of nurturing and caring for, as they had not been when you were young.

Forgiveness is no longer possible. You will be betraying yourself at the core, and ultimately treating yourself as badly as your father did. You will absolve all of the horror and justify it because you feel your pain and anguish is less important than his shame and guilt. You will make amends to assuage his life and leave yours in ruins. What will he do to make amends? How can there be any forgiveness for something so heinous?

Bravo sir.