MattGrimes

"Celebrate your independence today by loosenng the restrictions on your colon"

Thanks for the reply Kevin. That makes me feel better haha. In regards to more ambiguous mecosystem experiences, i want to say yes but im not totally sure. Through writing and thinking and such i would get little nuggets of wisdom out of nowhere, but i never noticed it as a distinctly separate part of myself who was releasing them nor any method to the madness. It was always just this kind of fog of me running around in circles trying to intellectually attack a problem and seems as if my unconscious would at some point be like "okay you're gonna hurt yourself kid. here just take this nugget of wisdom and stop thinking so much lol". but , until the other day, I saw my unconscious as, at best, this just fog-topped lake in the night which will give me wisdom if i do the right rain dance to it. Though I cant recall every consciously thinking that these answers came from my unconscious; my conscious mind took all the credit and used that to justify that the thinking-myself-into-a-tornado method of problem solving was effective. So to answer your question, i would say yes it has occurred but in such a subtle way that i didnt even know it until writing this.

edit: Oops meant to say 'Has my mecosystem finally revealed itself' What's up guys So, there is a lot of backstory, but I don't think it is particularly relevant so I will condense it as best I can (lol, nope that didn't work out at all. Sorry! It's still not even 1/10th of all I could say though so I guess it's better than that lol). Basically my question is regarding the 'mecosystem'/unconscious and how it manifests itself. I have listened to podcast 0-1200 and then the last few hundred of the most recent volume, so I've heard a lot about this idea of the mecosystem and how it functions, though I never understood it as more than a theory up until last night. I never understood how people could role play their 'alters' (almost always it is the voice of the 'critic' who is role played), and felt much like Greg (who, at least in the podcats I have listened to thus far, always struggled with this). I have had an emotional rollercoaster the past few weeks, as I am quitting my job at my parents company of which I have worked for 5 years (I am 23). It is by far the scariest thing I can remember having ever done. I realized recently, through journaling and therapy, that I had resigned myself long ago to the fact that I would never have control in my life, and FDR has kind of screwed that all up for me (in a good way; overwhelming but good). Up until recently, I was basically a slave to the whims of my family, with not even the thought of pursuing a career. Last night, I had this overwhelming anxiety and a desire to cry, and I just had to stop and lay down, pull out my jounral, and I asked myself "What do you need?" "What's going on" "What do you have to say". Immediately I got back I got this overwhelming rush of a strong 'presence' and got many answers regarding my immediate future regarding my job situation, therapy, and my girlfriend--usually I get 1 snippet of these goodies dropped on me after lots of thinking and writing, but last night I got more things that I would get a whole month. The first thing 'he' said was "You have to get out. You have to get out NOW" (regarding my job) over and over. I had to say "This is too much. I need a break", and the alter said "yes that's okay" and left me alone for a few hours, which later I said "Okay I'm ready" and it gave me many more insights. This 'presence' was distinctly separate from me, though i wasn't like hearing voices or anything; it was just an internal monologue but with what seemed like distinct separate, more powerful mind. As I layed there, 'listening', another mind came up, who was called "Baby", who wanted love and affection and attention and bond but has never received what he needed. Immediately I felt that this was the part of me who loved and wanted affection from my mother. Consciously I have never been able to feel the need for affection from my mother that I, intellectually, know must exist. I have hated my mom since I was 13 and cannot recall I time where I did not firmly believe that 'I don't need her'. Even when I try to say 'okay feel it. I know you feel it' I wouldn't happen, but last night when this 'alter' popped up I knew that he was the one holding all this in. Despite have been neglected for 23 years, he did not complain when I said that I needed a break from listening to them, as I was feeling overwhelmed. The first 'alter', who said his name was 'Mitch', is very strong, courageous, and with deep wisdom. He knows much more than I do about what to do next, so I said I will listen to him. The only time I can ever recall having 2 distinct 'minds' in my head was back when I was 14 and I was still somewhat religious. I remember I would pray to Jesus and immediately I would get this 'FUCK JESUS. JESUS SHOULD DIE. FUCK JESUS' in my head, which I would feel very ashamed of for thinking. Mitch 'says' this was a former version of himself speaking these words, but after that he went dormant, and only now was it safe to return, as now I am finally in a stable enough situation to listen. Also, as I continued to listen and meditate, immediately an image of a terrifying, pale, close up face, just of the right eye, bulging, looking like something out of a horror movie appeared in my head. They told me this was 'Dead'. He has yet to say anything. He seems to 'grunt' but no words. I am not sure exactly who he is, but he is somehwo related to the many years I spent suicidal. I don't know if he is my sucidial self or the self in me who has already died, seeing as he does not speak, and Mitch and Baby plead the 5th about him. So, yeah. Is this the mecosystem Stef talks about? Or am I just losing it and/or making random shit up in my head? At first I thought I was just crazy, and I was very skeptical of 'trusting' these personalities, but the more the say the more I think this is legitimately some dissociated parts of myself that have knowledge from my unconscious that I have never been able to access.

Well first I would like to say Hello and thanks for coming to the board with this question. I will of course put the caveat that everything below is just my opinions and my interpretations, so all I ask is that you consider them and of course discard them if they are in no way valid. Also for whatever it is worth, I cheated on a girlfriend 7 years ago, and I tried to hide it from her for a few months until she found out. We broke up for a few months but ended up getting back together and spent the next four years together. Long story short, it was a disaster of a relationship, full of co-depedent and self-destructive tendencies. We broke up 3 years ago and I am still recovering from the damage that that relationship did to my life, and if she had a chance to get her life put back together from her broken childhood, that relationship definitely made the potential light at the end of the tunnel a whole lot dimmer. I have forgiven myself for the harm I have caused, as I too was a broken child and have put enormous effort into becoming a better person since then--the ending of that relationship being what truly spurred me to seek truth and wisdom--however the damage I had caused in her life tortured me for a long time. But I digress, onto your question: Well, right off the bat, No. He did not 'end up sleeping with a women' like it was some thing that just 'happened to him'. He consciously chose to betray his girlfriend in the most absolute form possible. Again, weasley language. He did not 'find himself' in this predicament, it was not 'dropped on him'. He took everything he knew and valued about this woman and this relationship and what it means to him and the feelings of this woman, and he said fuck it and have sex with some other women. Where this language is coming from I cannot claim any knowledge however I think it's worth considering the following possibilites: 1. you may be attempting to downplay so as to 'protect' your friend (ie protect him from truth and facilitate his lies) 2. You wish to downplay the reality so as to 'feel better' if you do not intervene (if it would otherwise tug on your conscience) 3. It may be his language and you are unknowingly repeating his mythology, possibly indictating that you have a history of being forced to repeat the mythologies of others so as to avoid attack for yourself. Or none of these could be the case, however I just want to provide as much though provoking feedback as possible on the chance that they may resonate with your situation. I support your statement of the significance of honesty, though I get the impression you are quite fearful of your friend. Of course, again take this for whatever it's worth, and it could entirely be just a mis-interpretation due to the medium that is text or my own faults, however I get the impression that 1. you are not confident in your own belief that honesty is the key to happiness and/or 2. you do not feel comfortable asserting your true values and beliefs and sticking to them with this 'friend'. If the former is the case, it may be worth considering what you value and how important it is to you (and whether you want people with opposite values in your life) and/or if this fear of honesty is pervasive in your life and why that may be, and if it is the latter, similarly, I would question whether a true friend would make you fearful to be honest with them. Second, the statement that he 'just has to work harder' is, I think we both agree, absurd and clearly not a 'working harder' to be honest or open. Honestly, I don't even know what he means by 'work harder'; the only thing I could think he would mean would be "I'll buy her more shit" or "treat her 'like a princess' to her falce (while I lie behind her back)" or something similar. He should have thought of that before he cheated. Actions have consequences, and dragging 'friends' to cover up one's lies is a pretty dispicable act by any standard. Well first, I would argue that any woman who would date, or claim to love, the kind of man who would cheat on her--The signs of low self-esteem, the signs of inconsistent behavior, the signs of a deficiency of the ability to acount for long term consequences, etc. would all be there long before he actually cheated on her--would suggest the strong possibility that this girl, though wonderful she may be, has a lot she has yet to discover about herself or her 'blindspots'. Again, of course, that's not to say for aboslute certain, though I would argue it deserves a lot of thought. Also that doesn't mean she's 'crazy' or anything, just that she likely has a long way to go with self knowledge. To answer your question, I, and no one, can decide what you should do, however I would like to put forward some things to think about. For one, If I were in this situation, I would not stand for it. Sidenote: I wanted to say 'unfortunately you got dragged into a situation that shouldn't be your problem', then I thought "well by being friends with this guy, you are accepting any negative situations that such a 'friendship' may present", but then I thought "Well, of course, it is ultimately the fault of your parents that they did not model integrity and honesty to the degree that you were not turned off by this guy and never would have been friends with him the first place", though the degree to which any of those is valid is convoluted and complex; just something to consider. Anyway, I don't know how old this couple is, but this could be the rest of this girls life. What if your 'friend' got a sexually transmitted disease? What if your friend got this other woman pregnant? What if--and I'd argue, more of 'what about when'--he cheats on her again? What happens if they get married; either she's going to find out eventually or his guilt is going to overwhelm the marriage. What does that mean for the children? More kids growing up with out dads? More fighting and divorce? What happens if the other woman tries to get money from your friend for her child? What happens if your friend transmits the disease to this girl? The degree to which this can destroy multiple lives is staggering and should be heavily considered. Your friend made his choice, but this woman is at least mostly innocent in the situation, and their children will be entirely innocent. Do you really value this guys 'friendship' so much that you would be willing to be complicit in the possible destruction of this woman and their children's lives? If you truly care about your friend, the girl, or their children, would you not want the consequences to be swift and potentitally life saving? Finding this out about her boyfriend could get her to stop and think about the kind of men she is dating, and cause her to get therapy which will exponentially increase her happiness. Not enabling your friends reckless behavior and lies could cause him to reconsider the direction of his life and do the same. And regardless of how their relationship turns out or the directions they choose, being truly honest and courageous and living your values could change your life for the better as well. I understand is very scary, and possibly terrifying if you have been attacked throughout your life for the virtures of honesty and integrity--something I strongly empathize with--, but for what is at stake, I strongly recommend you consider the ramifications for all parties involved for either choice. This situation is not your responsibility, however you do have in your hands the power to better many lives--or at least not facilitate corruption--including your own via honesty. Well that's all I really had. I hope this post will be of use and help you make whatever decision you choose to make, and i look forward to your feedback.

Kevin & James, Is there a mobile-specific version of the premimum content board? I can't find how to access it other than manually entering board.freedomainradio.com/files, however this page isn't very optimized for mobile ATM, and the podcasts do not transfer to quicktime too well (does not list length or position; just a play button basically). edit: Yeah it's struggling pretty hard. I cannot view the time nor drag the slider to a new area, and the podcast has mysteriously restarted for the 3rd time (I think it's happened after I lock the phone and then attempt to unlock it or if I leave Safari and come back to it it will restart). I apologize for my ineptness I'd love to help you guys out but I do not (yet) have the technical skills to be of any value. edit 2: Actually it's not even something that clear cut. My phone was just sitting in my pocket untouched with the screen locked and off and the podcast just restarted

I've put off listening to any of the premium content due to seemingly uneasy way in which it must be done, and in deciding today to try and figure it out it seems that the only means is to click each individual podcast then clicking 'save as' on the download link. I have done about 5 and the last 10 minutes or so (my internet is being quite slow), though at this pace the 160 that I would like to download will take me at least a few hours clicking back and forth and saving each file. Is there any kind of feed for say the 'bronze podcasts' or 'gold podcasts' or is this my best option (I just don't want to spend a few hours doing this only to realize that there was a feed for these somewhere that I overlooked). Thanks

Originally emailed Mike about the first one, but I figured it be easier for him if I just posted it here. 1. At 1:04:30 in the Against The Gods audiobook, the music starts playing at the wrong time and overlays Stef's audio for a few seconds. 2. When clicking the link to purchase Revolutions via Amazon is sends me to Lulu. 3. This issue plagued me a few months ago and I just gave up trying to download the audiobooks until today: when I have an audiobook player open on my macbook, if I try to right click and 'save audio as' it will save it as a .htm file instead of an mp3. I tried a couple different methods like File2HD, and throwing the link in utorrent but none of these work. In messing with it again today I found that one time of about 10-15 tries it magically showed up as the MP3 file, but i could not replicate it again. Practical Anarchy saves as "PA.htm" and on the one rare chance, saved as "Practicial_Anarchy_By_Stefan_Molyneux.mp3". I tried performing the same task on my PC (Windows 7), and everything worked fine--everytime it got the correct file name and type, but on my mac such is not the case. I have no idea what could be causing this, but did want to point it out in case it may be a common problem. That is all for now. Thanks

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=792241417470123 Sure it's doesn't hold a candle to FDR or anything, but I was pretty impressed with the level of insight he has into family and childhood despite his fame. I haven't really looked at any of his other stuff, but it made me happy to see that someone pretty prominent was putting out these kinds of ideas; Gave me some hope for the world haha. Thought I'd share it with yall and get your thoughts.

Good point. I will ask. However i would clarify that she was just looking for a friend to talk about important things with, not a lover, and i was the same. Oh my bad. I misunderstood. I would mention that i think i portrayed it as a little more grueling and unrecoporical than it actually was, but there definitely was a noticable disparity. I think she knew that i was uncomfortable with vulnerability and it was 'okay i told you stuff now you tell me', but we will definitely have a conversation about it. Another good point. Yeah for sure. I had no intention of this being a relationship–it crossed my mind whether it was a potential thing but it was by no means a goal– just having a new friend who i could be honest with, and start figuring out the almost 1000 hours of theory and put it in to practice in my life, and bring it to others as well. Of course, i didnt know the best way to do it. I brought up that i felt very anxious over potentially being a hypocrite by talking about these ideas and probing her life while i was still in the infancy of probing my own. It was after that i that somewhat lost interest in digging deep into her (not that i am against it now, but previously my whole idea was apply this to other people and fix them instead of me) and was more interested in being open about myself–something i believe is positive. I will finish RTR in the next few days. Thanks as always for your input

Right i fully understand that. But it is an illusion shatterer is it not? I am intending to use Stefs own words in regards to this topic–'philosophy is radioactive', the first few paragraphs of on truth, etc. You dont just go dropping philosophy everywhere, right? Only people who are ready to put in the work. Expecting people to be able to do this is like expecting people with osteoperosis to play rugby (quoting a podcast from the 880's or so). You have to be gentle. Thats all i was trying to get at. I dont dispute that their brittle bones were inflicted on them but that doesnt mean i can just go around breaking them carelessly, right?

Yeah she is majoring in psych (new to it, but knows some) so she is not ignorant about that stuff. The kind of conversations we have she explicitly stated she has never had before. Up until us talking, the idea that you should tell people how you feel was not a thought that you really considered. So I think she is just learning to feel comfortable with first knowing what she feels and then saying it. However, anytime I ask her "how do you feel about this", she is very open and does her best to interpret her emotions and express them to me. Well philosophy and honesty can be very destructive, just only to falsehood. In the empire of falsehood that is modern society though, I felt these words were not entirely inappropriate, especially when talking with people who are new (I think it's important, to explain that philosophy is radioactive and can really mess up your life, though if you stick with it it will make something better than you ever could have imagined). I catch your meaning though. I will avoid using these. hahaha no I'm sure that she is aware that men want to bed her. However that's not really what I am interesting in exactly; I just had a desire to make a move in regards to physical affection. And FWIW I am 22 and she is 21. I'm sure sex has crossed her mind, though she doesn't seem particularly concerned about it (nor am I... which is unusual). this is very good. thanks. Sorry to anyone else responding, got to go to class, I'll be back for more later.

Hey Lians! Well that's a good question. To my knowledge, when she was bored on lunch at work or just had 15 minutes to kill she would just facebook chat people. I guess I'm a funny guy so I was good for a few minutes of entertaining. Of course. That's why I want to probe her relationship and why she was in it a little more. I don't want to make excuses for her, but to my understanding, and from my own experience of similar things, it kind of a 'this is the best there is out there. All my friends are drunk and lame, and the best I can expect is someone who will just hang out with me and shoot the shit who I don't hate'. In the circle of people that we come from, the idea that you could have a relationship where you are honest about things is like looking for a unicorn—we didn't even know it was possible. As I mentioned though, I do plan to probe it a little more. In regards to skepticism, haha yes I know it's not a feeling. I meant that I expressed to her how I was concerned about her motives, and explained what happened with the last person who preached similar lines. Yeah I am very aware of the deep rooted nature of dysfunction, hence my concern. You posit a very interesting theory in regarding to the ambiguity. I will have to think about it. However my initial thoughts are that it may be a false association. We are both concerned about resolving ambiguity and getting to the root of things, and most of the confusion arises from the fact that we just met yet have what seems to be quite a strong friendship (but also the degree to which we talk makes it seem like it doesn't fit in the friendship box; and of course that we are attracted to one another throws another wrench it there). Either way, I will think about this pattern you have presented, and posit it to her. I definitely understand your concern, though I'm not sure it is warranted (I'll explain a little more and you can tell me what you think). We generally hang out at night—both night owls with later schedules—so last night we hung out from like 9 PM to 6 AM. We went for food and whatever, and then decided to go my house to eat it (as driving to the beach again and sitting on rocks just didn't seem as appealing). We hung out til probably 12 on the couch and balcony, but my room mate was sleeping and the neighbors could hear us on the balcony, so we moved to my room. I have no furniture in my room so the bed is the only place to sit. We were sitting up, entirely platonic for the first hour or so, but as time went on we kind of slouched down, I then put a blanket over my legs, then she put a blanket over hers, and by the end of the night (it was also like 5 am so we were tired) we were laying, and were somewhat closer physically (IIRC mostly my doing). As mentioned in previous responses, for me, just the fact that we've gone this long without sex is a new experience for me. In the past all my relationships were basically put in the A. relationship or B. Meh I don't like you. Box pretty quick. I've never had a friend who then became a relationship. I of course see the dysfunction in starting a physical relationship so soon, and thus don't want to do that, and the desire for it has definitely taken 5+ times longer than it usually does, but now it is here and i don't know how to go about it. And I haven't mentioned sex or anything—I'm not particularly interested in that (which is unusual for me)—but I did mention the idea of a relationship, and that it had been a thought in my mind and that I wanted to explore her perspective and my perspective and such. Is this unhealthy? I am very new to RTR so I didn't know if stuff like that you're supposed to not talk about yet or what. thoughts? Appreciated, Comrade. I can always count on your to bust my balls haha

Philosophy bomb is basically FDR. Talking about childhood and how child hood created your dysfunctions, and why we hang out with people we do and whether those people are corrupt or whether they care about us or are just using us to manage their emotions (and we to them), etc. Brutally honest I guess sounds concerning to those who have always been pretty honest, but basically just RTR as I understand it. When I feel something I say something. when she asks a question I do my best to answer with complete truth. When sometimes is causing me anxiety, I bring it up. etc. That is my concern. I am concerned about why i'm so concerned about putting this is a box. I am definitely used to doing that (putting relationships in a box immediately)—every other relationship I've had started off as 'I like you let's have sex' basically, and then it went from there. I've never dated a girl who was ever in a limbo of 'should we be friends or partners?'; it was always either A. let's bang or B. bye. Just the fact that after 8 hours talking to hour I didn't make a move, nor even feel a desire to do so, was unusual for me. Of course I know that's terribly unhealthy for relationships (to have sex before you know the person), and I don't want to do that with her. I want to get to know her and be her friend, but I also want to be honest and my brain is highly concerned about this relationship stuff now, so I brought it up. Just for clarity's sake, I interrogated her for at least 6-8 hours of talking before I started to reveal anything significant about myself. I am very aware of how dangerous vulnerability is (correct me if i'm wrong if that's not what you mean when you say 'and the damage it could possibly do to you both'). As said in the above response, I am generally debilitating-ly closed-off; not telling anyone about how I feel or what I think (however I have been opening up in the past few weeks to those I think may deserve it). If this girl had not proven herself to be more honest and curious than anyone I have met, I would not have revealed these things to her. Okay so this is my dilemma. How do I know when it is right to move steps (let's leave her past relationship out of the equation for now as that will have to be resolved first)? As I said above, every relationship I've had in the past was centered around sex and I never go to know them before that. Of course I see where that leads and I don't want to that to happen here. Am I right in mentioning my concerns about this to her when I feel them or should I just shut up and let things work themselves out and go wherever they go? Hey man I thoroughly appreciate it. She is quite inquisitive, though she is obviously quite new to these kinds of conversations as well (so isn't experienced in Socratic questioning or anything). I don't want to bust her balls or anything, so I'm just letting her kind of work her way up to the level of radical curiosity that I, and FDR, embrace. I don't think it's just a fascination—that was how the last girl was and that became apparent pretty quick. But you could be right. Of course, life is short, so might as well find out sooner rather than later.

Hey no worries; I came here to get some perspective. Well my issue is that while timeline wise it's very short but it's pretty condensed. We've hung out for like 24 total hours and have at least another 8+ talking on other mediums. 36 hours is equivalent like 9 dates (I think... I've never really asked a girl out of a date before). And i'm not exactly saying that it needs to be a relationship or a friendship and that needs to be decided now, but it is anxiety causing that i don't even know if a future relationship is off-limits. Also, is it healthy to mention this anxiety? It seems like a weird feeling to have with someone so early on (though to my knowledge it is a mutual feeling); but I also want to be honest. Every previous relationship I've had basically started out with us hooking up because we were physically attracted to eachother, getting to know eachother after having sex, and then kind of figuring out whether we actually liked eachother. Of course that is terribly unhealthy, and I didn't want that to occur in future relationships, but just the fact that I didn't kiss her on the first night put this in a different category than all my others. And you could be right, but it doesn't feel that way. I am a very very guarded person. I have always kept everything to myself, and use sarcasm and jokes, and sometimes even more volatile methods (hostility and meanness) to keep people at arms length for many years. I am not at all the kind of person who will just open up and say how I feel to anyone, or even people who I am fairly close with. It is definitely the case that it's kind of 'fuck it, this is me, if you have a problem with it, don't continue talking to me', but if I was highly concerned that this girl was a scumbag who would use this information against me, I definitley would not have done it (though, even though It seems like she would never ever do that, I am concerned at having given her that power over me, something I have not really done in the past as people have always abused it). The fact that it is a new relationship does make it easier to be honest, but that in itself is far from what I require to speak to freely about myself. In regards to a date: I've never really done that. However what we've been doing have kind of been dates? I don't know if it's my generation or just the people I know or just me, but dates—as in 'hey let's go on a date'—aren't really a thing. I felt more comfortable just bringing the topic up to discuss than trying to figure out how to have a date ¯_(ツ)_/¯ Oh and yes, I have been exceptionally curious. I always am. But usually I am always just interrogating (nicely) other people in my life and never revealing anything about myself. She is the first person I've felt comfortable talking about myself, to the degree where I not only want I okay with it but actually wanted to do it (which is weird).

Ribuck, I really appreciate you taking the time to read my post and provide feedback. Your comment has caused relief in me, though if you could give me a little more meat (ie why shouldn't I be hung up on her past relationship? Can I be certain that it's a non issue? Any ideas on what I could propose or ask to help me get a better understanding of this? etc) that would be awesome.

So, just to preface, I found FDR back in September and have been listening to about 8 hours a day since then. I just got to volume 4 this week, have read On Truth, and am half way through RTR. So I have a LOT of theory. However it wasn't until the last few weeks that I really started applying it well. I of course have been applying here and there—not against it or anything, just kind of figuring out what fits for me and what not—but it has been in probably the past month (after I called in on 2576; first caller, I think, if you're interested) that I've really been taking the bull by the horns. Since then I have been working really hard on applying RTR to my friend relationships which I think may be able to handle it and have removed those who can't or whose company I find no benefit it. I am absolutely going to De-foo ASAP but I am currently financially dependent so it's not possible right now (to my utter dismay) A week ago, I started talking to a girl (who will be known as M) who I've known kind of through a mutual friend (who I don't really associate with much anymore). She would sometimes message me on facebook when she was bored, but the last week seemed more interested than usual. I have really been interested in making new, healthier friendships (and revamping old ones, if possible) in the past few weeks, and so one day I just asked her why she seemed interested in talking to me. I can't remember exactly what she said, but basically it was along the lines of that she respected me and was interested in the things I posted (economics, psychology, science, philosophy, bitcoin, parenting, state violence, etc), and that she finds truth, and self growth, and the state of the world very important, and that none of her friends care about that stuff, and thus was interested in us becoming friends. I was very skeptical, as about a year ago a girl said a similar thing to me, but later it became apparent that she just wanted me to fix her and such. I told M, that I was skeptical (RTR!) , and she said she understood. I basically interrogated her with Socratic questioning about pretty deep issues, and she was very open to it, though skeptical. Of course as I am total novice at applying this stuff, I didn't handle it perfectly, but I did a pretty decent job I think. She seemed, and still seems, far different than anyone I've ever met; she seems as ready for FDR as I was when I found it. We talked over facebook a lot (at least a few hours of talking) for a day or two, pretty in depth conversations for someone you just met, but it was the most interesting and stimulating conversation I had had in a pretty long time, though at this point it was still mostly me questioning her and not saying too much about myself—My method of keeping the upper hand in the relationship (kind of unhealthy), finding if others are 'worthy' of philosophy and my time (healthy). After about two days we decided to hang out. I picked her up, we got food, went to the beach and just talked for literally like 8 hours. I presented a lot of ideas behind FDR, as curiously and as innocently as possible, though at first I definitely had to some degree of my usual fix-other-people-ness, but much less than ever before. I was 100% honest, including about my infliction by my mother to erase myself and put others before me, and very open, and she seemed to be the same. When I felt something, I would say so. The only thing I did not yet mention was my pondering of my interest in a potential relationship with her because we'd known eachother for only a few days, but something that crossed my mind as soon as we first talked. We talked about our childhoods a lot, and laughed, hobbies, and just everything. We texted pretty constantly for the next two days, and generally when I felt something, I would tell her—something I've never had in any relationship or friendship before. The biggest one being that I felt anxious about our FDR-esque conversation and that I was concerned I was moving to fast in regards to life-changing material (which I still think I may have jumped the gun on dropping the philosophy bomb on her, but she seems to be handling it really well). I explained that seeing as the cat was already out of the bag that I might as well present a core component—"hypothetically, if it were the case, not that it is but if it were the case, that most everyone in your life was corrupt, would you be open to removing corrupt people if it meant the only way to true happiness?". She was very open and curious and interested and to the best of my knowledge was totally honest in return (explaining that while it would be hard, if it meant true happiness, that she would do it). Frequently we would remark on the weirdness of the connection we had and how it felt that we had known eachother for way longer than a few days, as we had both had deeper conversations with one another than anyone else in the past. Again we hang out (2 days from the last time), for about six hours at the beach again. Similar conversations, very open, and honest. Here is where one of my major issues starts to arise—us as a relationship. It started to bother me a lot the night before, most importantly because she just got out of a 2 year relationship 2 months ago (which we talked a fair amount about in the original facebook chat, via text, and on the first hanging-out-session). I, as awkwardly as humanly possible, explained that I had been thinking about us as a relationship, and wanted her take on it. We were on the same page: that we weren't particularly against it, though it was not in any way our primary intention of the friendship, nor did we particularly think it was necessarily a proper time for something like that—me going through a lot of major changes, and her just getting out of a relationship. We decided to just accept the weirdness of whatever it was that this was—and that it neither fit the box of friendship or relationship-relationship—and to reconvene on it at a later time. In regards to her previous relationship, she says that it was hardly a relationship. They both just were more of friends (though they never talked about anything important; just hung out) who had sex, and that they never really told eachother they loved one another or anything and that she inevitably broke up with him after realizing the relationship was just destructive to both of them. However I still felt uneasy, as generally I follow the rule of being single for at least half as long as you were in a relationship. Today, 2 days later, we hung out again, after frequent texting, for 9 hours. It was a much more relaxed hang out, at least in regards to the ratio, with a higher percentage of laughing and jokes, however we did talk a lot about me and my depression (which is weird, and new and I was pretty uncomfortable, which is good though), and also her affliction for punctuality and how it came from her mother. Also for the first time in my life i actually wanted to talk about myself, which I mentioned to her, and was really interesting. We first went out to get food, then hung out on my couch and balcony, then, since it was late, migrated to my room and sat, fairly far away, in my bed, and talked. We constantly remarked on the weirdness of the situation, and how it had only been a week since we'd known eachother and already we feel so comfortable as friends, and also how weird it was that we were just sitting in my bed. Not that it felt weird but that it seemed like it was a weird situation looking in from the outside. Over the course of a few hours we slowly moved a little closer, and then laying under the covers (separate blankets), getting more and more comfortable. At the end of the night, I once again brought up my concern regarding the ambiguity of the kind of relationship it was and that I could not fit it into a box,trying to figure out how to address it. This was brought on by a recurrent desire to hold her hand or kiss her over the course of a few hours, which I felt was inappropriate due to the unusual status of her past relationship. I did not bring this up as I already felt like the situation was weird enough, and I feared that if I did mention that I wanted to make a move, that she would be okay with it and it would happen—which I am unsure of is a good idea, though not a bad enough idea that I would have stopped myself from doing it had I been honest (though I will probably tell her next time, depending on your guys' feed back). The night ended on the note that she should put some thought into her relationship with her ex and that that would be the big topic for our next talk. What do you guys think? I have this concern that this is such a weird relationship, but it seems to be true intimacy and not some kind of fusion. Am I supposed to be this brutally honest? I recall Stef mentioning that it was a few months before he presented a lot of the more radical stuff to Christina; while I started doing it within an hour. It feels so right but also so unusual. Both of us acknowledge that life is short and we don't want to waste time messing around with people who are not worth having in our lives. My biggest issue is regarding her past relationship and how to go about that. If she had been single for like 6 months to a year, i think, while the relationship would be unusual, all the other hurdles would be easy to overcome. At this point I contemplating that A. we either just date B. We become JUST friends C. We stop talking altogether (something both of us are very against, but it's not off the table) or D. Just sit in the weirdness until we find an answer. Any and all input would be awesome!

Well I'm not particularly concerned about her, at least not more so than anyone else. I am more concerned about the child and the possibility that by overcoming my fear of conflict in this instance that I could possibly prevent a torturous childhood. I of course see very little chance of my trying to talk to her to have an influence on her choice, but on the chance that it would have caused her to reconsider, I think I would feel guilt for not at least trying. I understand this. I knew that the topic was going to be convoluted and didn't want to explain it all in depth if it wasn't relevant (which I thought was unlikely, but maybe I am wrong). I say "somewhat irrational" because while I am aware that having the fear as a child was totally rational, and is rational in the case of many people still, there are often cases where this isn't. There have been more than a few times where I have avoided confrontation, only to end up exploding later, and then realizing that the whole time they would have been open to my feelings and concerns if only I had expressed them. So I will avoid conflict if there is any chance that person will lash out or whatever, and I'm pretty sure that I am overly cautious at this point. I totally understand why I am overly cautious but that doesn't change that I am being overly cautious. Right? My goal is to have an objective view of the situations; avoiding when itisthebest course and asserting when that is the best course. I think I worded it poorly in an attempt to avoid extraneous info, as I don't think I blame myself for my dysfunctions, but maybe I do more than I'm aware of.... If you have any questions/thoughts that could help me to clarify this that would be appreciated. I wouldn't dispute that she is pretty devoid of self knowledge, though we all were at some point as well... And, Maybe it's naive, but I think that maybe she's never been exposed to this kind of stuff so id give it a shot. As mentioned in the response to the other commenter, I don't expect to have an influence on her decision, though I feel that it would be unfair to have the knowledge I have and not at least make an attempt to prevent a horrendous situation, and likely a final nail in the coffin for this woman of having any chance to change her situation. If I initiate a conversation and she tells me to fuck off, I would be content with my attempts. Yeah I think vice was a poor word to use. I just meant that the biggest thing in my self knowledge and growth right now that I am struggling with is my passivity and my issue/dysfunction/whateveryouwantotcallit of putting other people's needs before my own. My issue with this situation is that I am unsure of whether my desire to try to talk to this woman is a manifestation of my dysfunction or actually a healthy thing, as confronting her is also something I am afraid of. I am caught between two desires, both of which are associated with my two biggest issues, and I Can't tell which is which and what is what. Itskind of confusing; Am I making sense? What gave the impression that I was not putting the blame on my parents? I ask because I think the I do have a proper understanding of whom is to blame; that every dysfunction I have Is a result of what occurred in my childhood and that the root of causality lies with my parents, and if my interpretation is incorrect, I of course would want to know. Wait a second. I think my intentions may not have been well laid out. My goal, ideally, would've for this girl to have an abortion or look into adoption. I am fully aware that if she decides to try to take care of this child that there is nothing I can do and I feel no obligation in that regard. I of course appreciate the words. Though if you could elaborate on the last sentence I'd be interested in hearing more as, as said above, I do believe that I hold blame in the proper places but if that is not the case I'd certainly like to know.Edit: please see my edit of the OP as it may be potentially clarifying (thought presents a potentially new conflict).

And I know the kid is going to be fucked. She's a friend of a (ex)friend so I don't really know too much about her but I do know she has experienced sexual abuse, goes out of her way to hang out with thugs and gangsters (yet lives in one or the top 5 safest cities in the US), has had like 5 abortions, the father will not be around, she is religious, and relys on her insane religious family for money (very wealthy), etc. you get the picture. For the past week I have felt this incessant gnawing that I need to do something about it; to try to talk to her about the implications of having a child and single mother hood that will impact both her and the child. It keeps me up at night (well I'm always kept up at night by thoughts but this has been the primary thought for the past few days) and anytime I am reminded of it I get stressed. Edit: stressing over whether I am obligated to say something, and what I'm going to say if I am. I also am a very passive person–my whole life has been about the emotions and problems of other people, erasing myself to serve their needs. Obviously the result of narcissistic parents who used me, and continue to use me while bribing me with money, to comfort their emotions. This is my number 1 vice that I am working on. This is relevant because 1. I am really stressed about the actual conversation as I have an somewhat-irrational fear of conflict and fear that people will be volatile. I reaaaalllyy don't want to do it but I feel that I will never be able to forgive myself knowing that I didnt do everything I could to prevent the torture that this child will endure and that if this woman has a child she will assuredly become beyond rehabilitation. 2 I don't know if my desire to have this conversation is a manifestation of my own issues or whether it is a legitimate concern. To be honest, I'm 95% sure that the latter is not the case, and I am just looking for any reason for this not to be my responsibility (though I know you guys will give me the truth even if I don't want to hear it). More than anything though I just need Something to push me off the fence. Edit: just to clarify: this woman has been having unprotected sex for years, and has been pregnant numerous times with different men. She, to my knowledge, originally intends to have the child, and then after weeks or months, decides to abort. To my knowledge this has been by demand of her parents or friends and possibly a change of heart, thought the underlying (dysfunctional) desire for a child seems to have been continuous. My intention is not to fix this woman or sway her to the ways of peaceful parenting, simply to have a little talk to help her to understand her motives for this having a child, what it will mean for the child, and what it will mean for her future. I am not particularly interested in her well being (any more so than anyone else anyway), only the child's, though I believe appealing to her future is potentially a good avenue, among others, to address. My goal would be to sway her that having a child right now is a very bad idea and that having an abortion would be the best course of action (and hopefully get her to reconsider having a child anytime soon). Again, I don't foresee a high chance of success but I feel that on the chance that saying something could cause her to reconsider her decision, I would feel guilty knowing that I could have done something and I did not. In writing this edit I realize that maybe my entire premise is a contradiction as my goal would be for this woman to have an abortion, to save the child from a likely miserable life. Is it?

There was a dozen or so podcasts about it in the 200's or so... are those the ones you are referring to or is there another wave of determinism stuff?

I'll check out that podcast, thanks. My question was more semantic, in that your word choice caused me confusion, but thanks for clarifying. I am fairly familiar with the Socratic method, I have used it to some degree (before knowing what it was called) for many years, but now that I am 700 podcasts in, and having read the Socratic dialogues, I have a much better understanding of it. I am pretty good at applying it to others, but, as I think would be the case with most, applying it to yourself is a little more difficult (thus my reason for posting here to get your guys' help ). I should note that my podcast time has been only over the course of 3 months, so I have absorbed a lot of information but have yet to totally sort it out and apply it. Just to clarify a little, she was the one that started to bring me out of it--As said above, I think I'd probably be dead or something equally as not-very-good if it weren't for the our relationship and how it transformed me-- and I did not use my sarcastic-assholeness on her to even a fraction of that I used it on other people, thought it definitely was one of the many dsyfunctions in the relationship. I have yet to spend too much time analyzing my sarcastic-asshole-ness but it was mostly used to dominate others and protect my own insecurities, something I felt no need to do with her. With that said though, yes you are quite right in that the initiation of the relationship for both of us was fostered from false self emotions. I am pretty sure that the love we felt for one another and the growth we pushed for to make the relationship work eventually exposed us to our own trueselves and led us on the paths we are both on (as opposed to something else in our lives causing that), but I actually just the other day wrote her a long letter about this exact topic, among other things, explaining the false-self-ity of our relationship, including what you have detailed above. However, I think it might be good to put analyzing our relationship on hold, as I have spent every single day of the last 6 years, barring a few months, thinking about her and our relationship. While yes I have much better tools now to look into it--I have learned more about our relationship in the last 3 months that I did in the previous ~6 years, I think I need to take her lead and go work on myself for now (especially since even if I wanted to work on our relationship, she does not right now). I am very afraid to start probing the roots of my sacarsm, but that tells me that that is exactly the thing that is most important to probe. I have been journaling on and off for many years, though I mostly only do it when I am upset or have big news, and recently have been writing dreams in it as well. I have a little blog in the back corners of the internet that I write poetry and music and other stuff in as well, but I think more consistently, and more analytically writing about my own experience is something I need to get on right away. Thanks Lians.

Maybe guilt was a poor word to use. It was more of that I thought I was writing them a prescription, so to speak, that would help them, and then later found out that it was harmful. I didn't beat myself up or anything—it doesn't plague me—but when I recall it I feel bad about it. Would you call that guilt? My history with my ex is very complicated and there is much of it that I have yet to understand as well. We dated for 4.5 years (Age 15 to 20) and broke up 2 years ago, and I don't think that much of it would make sense without spending a few hours writing about my teenage years, my relationship with her, and also divulging a lot of information about her own situation that I don't particularly feel comfortable with doing (especially since I told her about FDR and she was very interested and I would not want her to come on the boards and see that I was telling people her life story). To answer your questions though: A) She broke up with me. B)Calling us 'friends' is not particularly accurate but it was useful to avoid having to dilute the topic at hand with extraneous information. We talk on occassion—We talked a lot in the last month, the most we have talked since our break up—and she is the only rational person in my life who is interested in self growth. There is still a lot of un-processed conflicts from our relationship, and right now we are taking a break from talking—as of yesterday—as she is working on her own past and her own childhood right now, putting our issues and relationship on hold. C) Absolutely. I don't know if it was ever explicitly stated, but that was one of the dysfunctions I brought to the relationship. >I recommend you examine the obvious causes before concluding that this is a systemic issue within you.I don't understand this statement. Could you elaborate a little? >What if you're surrounded by false-self-driven people who knock you down every time you try to express genuine empathy? How can you ever learn if you have to apologize and self-attack every time you make a mistake? To give you a sports metaphor, can you imagine having a team mate that yells at you and threatens to leave the game every time you make a mistake? How would you feel? I'm exaggerating, but I think you get the picture. The only peeople I have any meaningful relationship with is is my ex, and, after a talk today, potentitally another friend. I have never been put down, that I can think of, for expressing empathy. I have spent most of my life alone, mostly by choice (that's a whole nother topic), and I think it's mostly, if not almost entirely, that I never learned to feel it in the first place. My relationship with my ex was the first time in my life I ever cared about someone else. Also another factor that I connected today was that I spent most of my teenage years being the token sarcastic asshole, something that I particularly enjoyed, and still do enjoy on certain levels—thought it is a shriveled carcus of what is used to be; previously much more destructive and elitist and now mostly just playful—and thus I think it conflicts to some level with my desire to help people. I think this is a significant factor in where, when I do feel empathy, I have trouble expressing it because it conflicts with the persona I have set up for myself for many years (Just realized this—I think it is, if not the primary factor, at least a major factor in the issue presented in the OP). Again, thanks for your interest and responses!

Thanks for the responses. I will take them into consideration Just to clarify, the biggest issue is that I don't know what direction I want my life to go in in regards to a career, and thus would like to take a break from school after I get my AA to figure it out. If I did have a definitive idea of what I wanted to go to college for, it wouldn't even be a question and accepting the annoyance that is dealing with my mother and being financially chained to her would not be a problem (or at least the cost-benefit would be worth it in my eyes). Just to provide a little more background: Up until I was about 20 I had never even considered where I wanted my life to go, and in the past year or two (since I started being interested in knowledge and science and anything really), I have jumped from every different field of study, and I think it's likely that that will continue to happen for some time. From age 15 to 20 I was somewhat interested in psychology, then at 20 I got into Astronomy (wanted to do physics), then jumped to journalism, then history, then computers/programming, then philosophy (pre-stef), then economics, and now since getting into FDR I have come back to psychology. However none of these could I really see myself doing for the rest of my life. With that said, maybe my question should be more of: Do you guys have any ideas/tips on how I could figure out what I do want to do with my life? As stated above, if I could figure out something worth majoring in, then that would probably resolve my internal conflict on this.

One thing that I really like, which I see very rarely, is Stef trying to present his ideas to new people/debate people who have never heard of some of the ideas this show talks about or whom have a lot of 'false self' defense up. Note that I am only 700 podcasts in (and have seen most of the videos from August 2013—watched those and then started the podcasts), but I can only think of 2 times where this has happened. Once with a participater on the skype call named Michael (was an upper class british physics proffesor—I can't remember which podcast, even roughly), and, one that I liked much more which I think was in the late 500's or early 600's with some dudes wife who was talking about her experience as a hypotherapist who does past-life regression and all that jazz. It was really illuminating and interesting to see how Stef interacts in these situations, and it's a skill that I would like to hone much more, and thus would really like to see more of these. If there are more podcasts like this later on the line that anyone knows of I'd be interested to hear them.

I'm having trouble trying to figure out how to best present this without a wall of text, but I will do my best to be succinct (and of course if you require more info feel free to ask). So, I am 22 years old, and currently at a community college near my home town. I live in an apartment, which my parents (they are divorced) help me pay for because I am going to school. I am on their health insurance, they pay my phone bill, and also my car insurance. I haven't calculated it, but on a rough guess they pay about half of my expenses. I don't particularly like them, to put it lightly, and I wish to de-foo (something that has been on my mind since I was 15). My Dad more or less leaves me alone (I like him much more than my mom), but my mom shoves herself into my life and holds the money she gives me over my head. The biggest issue is that I don't want to be in college right now, as I have no idea what I want to major in or if whatever it is that I want to do will involve college, but if I am not in school she will definitely not help me pay for things (which is of course fair). I think my Dad would probably provide some assistance, but am not sure. My dliemma is whether I should remain under her thumb and take the bribe or De-foo and go do my own thing. I do plan to finish my general ed (1 more year) so that I can get an AA, but after that I want to take some time off and figure out where I want to go with my life, but if I decided to take a break from school, she would no longer provide financial help. The problem is that while it's not entirely comfortable to have to deal with my mother, it is familiar and thus not risky, and also does not carry the possibility of going out somewhere and not being able to find a job, or any number of things that could go wrong, and then having to come crawling back to my parents for help. I just wanted to get the advice of those out in the real world or whom have experienced a similar situation to maybe shine some light on how to go about this dilemma. thanks in advance! edit: In thinking about this further, and with the help of some of the first responses, I think another important question is: Do you guys have any tips of helping me to decide where I want to go with in my life/career? If I could feel comfortable diving in to something to major in college with, then that would solve the my dilemma.

Sorry for the late response been really busy with finals. I've been thinking on and off about your comment, and, maybe i'm missing something, but I don't think it is as you suspect (of course I'm open to further exploration of it). I perceive that I am quite good at trusting my instincts and knowing when I am right or wrong in a situation. However it is interesting that that is not how you perceived it. Could you maybe elaborate a little more on what gave that impression? In regards to your next point, my mom has always been very controlling and oppressive for lack of a better term (ie she is blind to the emotions of others when they conflict with her beliefs of how things or people are, will just push her position until the person submits, and is the exact opposite of curious), and also with my ex-girlfriend (the friend I was referring to in my OP) I have jumped-the-gun so to speak on things, but recoiled when finding that I totally mispercieved the situation (and thus it has caused me to second guess claims/assertions, but only under the pretext that I may not have all the facts). I am fairly certain that that is mostly out of the fact that she is very often represses her emotions and gives the illusion that things are okay, or are a certain way, and thus I cannot accurately interpret the 'cues' so the speak. But this, i think, is resolved quite well by being more curious, and obviously that I am not dating her and thus have less 'skin in the game' so the speak. In regards to my mom, the scar tissue manifest itself more in that I don't wish to get involved in conversations (or relationships) with hostile, controlling, dominating people, or when I do I just 'submit' to get them to go away because I know that there isn't anything I could say to get them to change there mind; I am a more passive and quiet person. However I don't think it causes me to question my own beliefs or second-guess myself. In regards to the topic at hand, as it was written in regards to my ex-girlfriend, I think the second-guessing due to my jumping-to-conclusions-ness in the past is part of it, but it think it's more of simply that I just was never taught how to expresss empathy, and,likely more significant, that I've never been good at feeling empathy for others (surely much better than most people, but not to the level that a therapist or many on here are capable of). I have gotten much better over the years though, and have had a large spike since I originally wrote this post, and it has helped significantly (Had a conversation with a friend today and I think i did quite well). I think my biggest (or at least another significant) issue is that it's very hard for me to see how what I say will be perceived. Most of the issues that I talk with my friends about I have never gone through myself, and thus 'putting myself in their shoes' and trying to think what the most positive/productive thing for me to hear, if i were in their situation, is difficult. I think also a part of it is that I've never had a 'mentor' or really anyone who could 'teach me', so to speak—I've always kind of been at the forefront of growth in regards to the people in my life (everyone in my life being a big bundle of irrational falseself, barring my ex-girlfriend) and have had very little empathy towards my emotions, thus making it hard for me to see what worked for me and then be able to adapt that to others (just realized this while typing). Of course, Stef being a beacon of light, and now that I am 700 podcasts in, has exponentially increased the rate at what I am understanding myself, those around me, and the world and has helped tremendously in these areas. With all that said, I think what I need to work on most is 1. first being able to develop more empathy for others 2. being around more people who are able to be empathetic towards me (as you guys are) so that I can better adapt that to those in my own life. What do you think? It's weird that I knew this, and I think someone above might have even said it, but it didn't click. If I am thinking 'I don't know what to say' then I should say that. Duh haha. thanks!