TheBishop

Terrible analogy. Under such a scenerio the driver would have been in an easy position to see that they were operating something foriegn to their knowledge. Given that understanding, they could be considered acting in negligence. A better analogy would be a person that was raised in completely sheltered, heavily indoctrinated, and taught not to question. You cannot expect a slave, that has no ability to guage their own servitude, to acknowledge and teach others freedom. Nor could you hold them accountable for thier actions. I do not make excuses for myself when it comes to my children. I understand my shortfalls, and work hard to keep an even keel when dealing with them. My children ages 3 and 4 already show great capacity for rational discussion. They are both learning quickly, that the best course of action in when dealing with their father is to cut a deal. I love to wheel and deal.

Inadvertantly, yes. Just like a priest that has dedicated his life to a religion. They lie all day long and don't even know it. Negiligent isn't the word to describe it either. Ignorance is the only term that fits. If the neighbor of a child is next store when it drowns in the backyard pool, and the neighbor had no knowledge of the pool, or the child, you could charge the neighbor with negligence. Now he could have made the effort to find out but what would have prompted him? Intuition? ESP? There you go reaching again. Were you born with an innate sense of this stuff? Did you just know? How did you find it? I know how I did, and It took me years of searching like material to arrive at the conclusion I have. So how am I suppose to expect someone to just know? That's stupid. Why are Libratarian, anarcho-capitalist, minarchist, and full blown anarchist such a fraction of society? The information is not only suppressed, admonished, and ridiculed by the mainstream, it's difficult to grasp for some, and the illusions they shatter can be downright frightening for them. To expect my father just to know is just silly. The ranks of freedom oriented individuals will not grow with that mindset. No dude, its called setting the record straight. You are wrong about my father. If I could go back fifty years and show him some of the things I learned, I believe he would have seen the things he taught me as heinous, and shifted direction. Some of the conversations we have lately leeds me to believe that he has cuaght on to some things a little to late. What I have difficulty understanding is why it is so important to you that I hold some adimosity twards him. Why is it not enough to understand his transgressions and move beyond them? Why must I hold his ignorance against him ,and punish him for things I see no way of him knowing? Is it not enough to understand that he was wrong, and correct them? To show others the mistakes he made so as not to repeat them? If that is somehow neccessary to get with your "program", peace I'm out. I don't dwell on crap like that. I prefer to focus my energy forward and try to fill the ranks of people willing to shed the chains of state bondage.

It isn't that information wasn't out there. It certainly was, but it's not like its prolific. Especially considering the times my father grew up. A book would have literally had to fall from the sky and hit him to discover this stuff. Heck, it took me years to find, after hundreds of hours searching on the net for variety of topics. I literally came about it by accident, from one video link to another. Agian, I don't see it that way. You could be right and it might be an excuse about an uncomfortable truth. But if you were right and my father knowingly, maliciously, fed me the lies of the state to indoctrinate me, I would see evidence. I do not. I see a man fully indoctrinated himself, unable to question the very premises he's been trapped into believing. I pity that. Thier my parents, the only ones I have, and they gave me a chance to get here. They placed no pressure on me to do anything other than be good person. They were affectionate, trusting, and loyal. I remember the journey I went through to reject the state. I wouldn't call it liberating. Devastating is more a term I would use. I know you'll probably revert to the whole daddy issue and this is probably good reason. But my rational conclusion came with saddness, deppression, and feeling of deep burden. Sad becuase I realized that I grown up believing in pure fantasy. That freedom and liberty is not what I would have fought and died for, and it really can't be, ever. Depressed becuase I didn't know where to turn next, and burdened becuase I was compelled to act for the sake of my children. And I didn't like that I hadn't reached the conclusion ealier. I also felt alone and that I had a goliath enemy of humaity in front of me. And that beast is impossible to slay alone. Agian you are assuming a constant. Astute meaning keen, wise, knowledgable, not perfect and without mistake.

Never said he was powerless. But just as child that grows up in a sheltered muslim setting is likely to turn out muslim, a man that grows up in a sheltered statist society, is likely to be statist. It isn't as if the information is readily available. It isn't now, even with the internet, and back then, it isn't even fathonable how one would even come about questioning the state. That is why the ranks of statist are so great. You speak as if we should blame every statist out there, for thier ignorance, when it is beat into their skull to obey their entire lives.The only flawed logic is yours. And your pretty good but you have too many false assumptions about father and I. Your conlusions would be spot on,if your assumptions weren't wrong. I have read alot of what you post, I can see your very astute at this stuff, but your reaching with me. I Love how this is was just suppose to be an intro about a statist that disovered the irrationality of statism and turned into a counseling session.I am not damaged,I do not see a stolen childhood. I would relive every moment of it if I could, good and bad. I love and pity both my parents. The pity becuase I love them, and wish they could discover what I have. They have very little time left and I see no reason to show them, they wasted all their lives and inadvertantly endagered their childrens lives. They were fools to be pitied not hated.Grudges and regrets are burdens I try to avoid. I take the lessons I can learn and move on. My parents and I are polar opposites when it comes to parenting. I make an effort to be that way. If You don't belive me I don't care. The fact I am here should tell you that I am on quite a different path than my statist father.

You know what you think, I know what you don't. I look at my father and see not a malicious man, but a man caught up in the lies of the state. A man blinded by the corruption propagated by the times, sentiments, and beliefs of a society, that has lost touch with the true spirit that enabled its existence. I see a man that wanted nothing but his chldren to be happy, in terms that he improperly defined. A man subjected to poisonous ideals, that once embeded, are only subject to destruction from within.To imply that I represent a danger to my chilren is utter ignorance. You don't know me. You don't know how I act twards them. You certainly don't have a clue how I understand the transgressions of my parents and apply them to my own parenting.

Maybe it's the condescension that I find a little abrasive. Especially considering that last line. I'm not looking to be coddled, or be spoon fed. I certainly don't expect my rear to be kissed with feel good answers. But I do expect to be able to disagree without getting negative feedback.I understand you think I have daddy issues and I should confront them. But I think the confrontation is not worth the gain. You think I should get angry and resent my parents them. I think haboring anger and resentment, is like haboring sadness, and pessimism, it can only slow you down and impede your focus. I pity my parents. I think its sad for them that they are unable to make the connections I can make. I am superior to them, in that manner, but most has to do with their circumstance. I now understand that you can't accept that I feel that way. I'm ok with that. But it rather annoys me that you insist that I'm a danger to my children, and you fell the need to compell me to believing I'm some type of victim. I reject that entirely.One, the victim mentality doesn't work for me. I take it as a lesson,something to be improved upon for each subsequent generation, and apply it. Victim implies the need of justice. In all the bad you think, and I know they did, I also see greater amounts of good that they bestoyed upon me and my family. Some of their core tenets are fundamental beliefs that enabled me to breach some gaps when looking for a righteous way to live.Again my father would have thought of wishing a battle field death a horid idea, at least out loud anyway. That has probably more to do with hollywood, the books I liked to read, and religous influence at the time. Either way it was a conclusion I had developed on my own. My father would have been just as happy if I had chosen baseball to pursue. He didn't push me, I pursued it becuase I did idolize my father, like any boy should.

I hope your not a representation of the populace in these forums. If so my time here will be short lived. I pretty much disagree about everthying you said. My parents aren't abusers and ingorance isn't always a choice. I certainly don't see a damaged individual when I look in the mirror.I have been seeking truth all my life. It's a journey that has led me to some very unconfortable positions in my life. This isn't unconfortable, this is annoying. You have made some very major assumptions based off little information. Some partly correct, but most you took your own preconcieved misconceptions an applied them to my circumstance. That has some very abrasive undertones.I am not looking to change, I am changing, and I can't stop it. Reflecting on the mistakes of my parents is something I have been doing since I became a father. But to outright villify them is unnecessary and to keep pushing the issue irritates me. They are insignificant for the future course of events.

It was a joke, lighten up. My children will be fine. They're intelligent, and like me have a loving atmosphere to grow up in. Despite what you may believe, and since you have nothing to go on but a paragraph or two, I know the enviroment I grew up in was loving. My father loved all of us. I do not blame the indoctrination he put off on me and my sibling on him, nor do I blame my mother for her side. They did what they believed was best. They gave us shelter, food, clothes, and both would have walked through the depths of hell for anyone of us. They gave us independence when they felt we were ready, and never once forced us to do anything we didn't want to do. They encouraged us, even in the things that they might not have agreed with, and most of all, they were there when we fell. We they perfect? No one is.Now if I felt they intended any of their actions maliciously I might see things differently, but I know they did't. They were igonrant like I said. Like most people are. It wasn't a matter of having the information, being presented a choice and choosing the wrong one. It was ignorance of not even knowing these things exist, or that it was even possible to question things differently. It was something that took me 10 years of reading to get too. I had the time neither one had. There is a reason the ranks of true libratarians are small compared to the statists. It isn't that this stuff is widely propogated, and that these principals are repeated throughout our lives. No, I had to pry it out the information world, at the same time shed the misconceptions that nearly 20 years of "education" have bestowed upon me.Seroiusly? I have been here less than a week have a negative reputation for what? Not willing to blame my circumstances on another and a joke. If this is the type of atmosphere that one can expect here, maybe this isn't the place I thought it was. People that seek to develop their self ownship and grow the ranks of the freedom movement need to be fostered. Freedom is a desperate state around the world, and this is your first move? Even if people are not quite there in your mind you need to embrace them, not scold, reprimand, and psycho analysis them before they even get started. You must do all you can to coddle them, grow the ranks, and if they are wrong they will find out on their own.I gaurantee you people don't get here by accident, and trolls will be easily spotted. They got here by learning they found something different. They will pay attention and question, like they have been doing all along to get here. Welcome them. Make everything about their experience positive. Avoid anything that cuase them to loose interest, or hope. This is a war of ideals that can only be lost in the hearts and minds of individuals. And we can't affor to lose even one to the staist mentality

Call it a SWAG.com·pla·cent/kəmˈpleɪsənt/ Show Spelled [kuhm-pley-suhnt] Show IPAadjective1. pleased, especially with oneself or one's merits, advantages, situation, etc., often without awareness of some potential danger or defect; self-satisfied: The voters are too complacent to change the government.2. pleasant; complaisant.

Ignorance and complacency.

Well I appreciate the phsyco analysis over the net but I going to have to disgaree with your assessment. I didn't come here for "self help". I came here looking for a community of individuals that seek to erode the power of the state. You want to know who I'm angry at? The institution of government, all of them, and the power mongers that feed off our sustenance.

We'll have to disagree with the whole stolen thing. The glorification of a battlefield death had litte to do with any one person, and more to do with a combination of beliefs I held. No one told me it was the way to die, I came to believe it was the ONLY way to die. It was more something I felt that was a spiritual calling, the self sacrifice for freedom.It is one thing in this day and age to talk about ignorance not being an excuse. Information is a click away almost anywhere you can get a signal. That wasn't even the case twenty years ago, certainly not fifty. At the time of my parents indoctrination, they were at the begining and peak of the cold war. The statism and militarism were dominating. Cinema, news, literature, you name it. They were misled, fooled, it makes no good to get angry. It is better to understand the cicumstances that led to it, and change that.As far as children go, the most important thing is a loving family enviroment. I had that, mine have that, and I certainly have a different approach than my parents.

My youth was not stolen. I didn't even insinuate such. I am a product of my past, and I am here, not there, so it would seem to have worked out for the best. If things would have started differently, they most assuredly would have ended differently. There is no sense at being angry at those who helped me become who I am. Were there negatives? Absolutely. Were there positives? Most certainly. How could I have known not to repeat the mistakes of my predecessors if they did't make any? How could I improve, unless I could see what needed to be improved upon? The people that influenced my youth did what they thought was right, they were not malicious. The problem does not start with them, it starts with the ideals that were propoagated upon them, that they beleived were right. I do not fault them for their ignorance, and habor no animosity, nor do I think I should. The past is done, the future is ahead, I draw from the past, I don't dwell on it. Besides if it wasn't for them I would not have foundation of learning that enabled me to arrive were I am.

I once was boy that thought Drugs and Russians were evil. I believed America's military was an instrument of justice, all around the world. It's not surprising considering my father, a Colonel, had taught me how to salute before I could really read. By the time I was ten I could tell most helicopters apart by the sound of their rotors. I knew the Phonetic alpha bit, and almost every Soviet and Nato aircraft. I was obsessed and wanted to die a soldiers death. I graduated high school in 97. Clinton was President, and was doing bad things to the military by my fathers mind, so he pushed be to go to college first. There I learned drugs weren't that evil, people were. I also began my studies into the criminal justice system. Which can ONLY be stated as a contradiction of terms. I also fell into what would be my second degree, political science. The two go hand and hand. Though, I never really let go of my childhood militarization and deep rooted conservatism, I know this is were the cracks began to develop. Especially, since it began to draw out my what I found to be more natural, rebellious nature. I got into a lot of trouble in college. It seems I was constantly figuring my way out of one mess into another. I think there was only one year, (out of six) I did not go to Jail. I quickly made that up by being arrested multiple times in a year. In only one instance was I ever a threat to another human being. That is the only one I truely should have been punished for, and it turns out, would be the most costly later down the road (DUI).Some I was dumb and stupid. Others, in what I thought was suppose to be a free country, can only be viewed as utterly ridiculous. Yet, even then I was still only seeing a small frame in a much the bigger film. Then I saw the towers fall, I wanted Blood like most Americans. Rivers of it. It wasn't hard to get worked up then, the nationalism was flowing hard. I was talked into finishing school first, by my father who told me it wouldn't be over before I got there (boy was he right on that one). So I did, then went straight for the service. I scored 94 on the ASVAB and with that demanded the quickest route for deployment. I had a shipout date. I squared all my debts, quite my job, got out of my lease, and was prepping to go. But during the interview process I had taken some bad advice from the recruiter. He told me to not answer yes to the drug questions, even though my record would ellude to otherwise. Everything fell apart. The Army would be a no go, and the dream I had held since childhood vanished before my eyes. A 194 on the asvab, 2 college degrees, and a 10 page letter to the commander of the south east recruiters and I still couldn't get in. Instead they told me be thankfull they were not having me arrested. Gee, thanks. So there I was lost and after 6 months of floundering I took the first job I could get. I have been there 10 years, and I hate it. But it does have some advantages. I have a lot of free time, and a unique skill that allows me some flexiblity. So I get to do what I want at work, just as long as I am availble when needed. So for the last 10 years I have spent a great deal of my time reading, discussing, and writing on all sorts of topics. The most prevelent being politics. I started a Hawk Conservative by birth, and evolved to libratarian anarchist. The journey has been so long, with some many contributions, I can't tell you exactly how I got here. I can tell you I was influence by my conversations at http://forum.gon.com/forumdisplay.php?f=9. It was a place I honed some of my internet conversation skills. It was there I discovered TOLFA, and it resonated with me especially considering I had just finished the Machinery of Freedom, By David Friedman. Those two pieces tied alot of things together for me. It really brought into focus another piece I had studied called Private Property and Public Control, The Freeman Classics. So here I am, hungry to learn more, so I can teach more to others. I think education is the only chance that freedom has in the future, humanity for that matter. Maybe paving the way for my children to have a better life, a free life. Plus it's is nice to know I'm not the only crazy anarchist. Rant over TheBishop