Jorell

It's incredible how intimate these little paragraphs can be - if I hadn't experienced much of what you describe myself, they would just descriptive and poetic... but instead they are almost tangible. It's such an experience, it feels trite to compare it to anything - it's just such a personal experience. Glad to meet you Lians! I also look forward to reading the link you posted in your sig - very comprehensive

Firstly, thank you for the compliment Lians, and a great question. I was always very passionate about new ways to look at old things - I just couldn't peek beyond certain barricades. Interestingly, the Mormon religious community is quite ambitious in it's intra-philsophical community, it maintains the illusion of both religions and secular authenticity by churning out literature written by every esteemed Mormon academic and ecclesiastical authority; it creates a veneer of overwhelming 'proof' and testimony. Very well supported and polished system... and with that, making it very much the same tired old religious racket - just with newer magazines Bringing that back to your question though, I did reach a point where my appetite for answers was feeling increasingly claustrophobic, but ultimately it was my lifeless self-esteem that pushed me over the edge, the years of literally being deemed 'unworthy' to marry or participate in the Church did a number on me. Once I had a stepped away for a few months, emotional healing came and closed many of those wounds and helped to correct those damaging beliefs. Around that point I discovered my desire for truth without boundaries, and haven't looked back.How about you? (and feel free to link it if you don't want to re-write - hehe)

I hope my statements weren't intended to exclude the value in being a considerate and conscious motorist! It can actually be kind of difficult (without a lot of bloating verbiage) to delineate a point without passing along the assumption that you're using an "either/or" argument. If I did come off that way, I'll gladly correct myself - I am in NO way any less skeptical about Motorists endangering other Motorists, Pedestrians or property... Sweet mother of God, that deserves an entirely separate thread - heheIn fact, John Stossel cites an interesting scenario in his book "Give me a break" about a freshly developed community that because of some lengthy delays in conflicting county ordnance's didn't receive any funding for public transit utilities. One of the only instances where a modern community was developed without traffic lights or signs. According to the case-study he cites, in this community (in the first year) they experienced more accidents per-capita than any other in the state of California. However, in less than 4 months their rates of automobile accidents went to the least accidents per-capita in the state and continued to decrease to the lowest in the continental US before the year was through. Not a very popular study however, as it begs some very intriguing questions - namely do safety conventions actually make us safer? Or do they merely dull our senses, become a sensory 'crutch'?I felt the most intriguing question about it though, was simply that if a community of can improve their road safety by the mere permission of spontaneous order, what else could they have achieved for other traffic needs; logistically, etc? As I remember though, the dispute between the bordering counties was resolved within 4 years and traffic implements were funded and installed.

You don't have to agree to it, but you may be wise to. Trying to make pedestrians, cyclists and motorists play nice on the road simply like oil and water. I approach my safety as a pedestrian, in the same manner as a typical HR department instructs new employees in a factory / heavy-machinery environment - they show gruesome videos and even bring in employee's whose carelessness has cost them dearly - not because they are anti-social, but because they want people to realize that the human body does not compete well with machinery. Perhaps it's because transportation is so commonplace we feel this should be an exception?It's possible I may be jaded to this arrangement as well; I live in a Metro area where the precedent of pedestrian awareness has reached some unhealthy norms, where a persistent culture of demonizing motorists for with no thought of pedestrian accountability has become the standard. People walking blindly across non-crosswalk areas, people dressed in dark clothing at night, people glued to their smartphones with headphones, cyclists with no reflectors; these are regular interactions for motorists in Metro areas and it is not organic. These are people that have been assured time and time again that the threat of State enforced legislative repercussions to motorists will protect them... I have difficulty seeing how trying to marry these transportation mismatches safely can result in anything but broken bodies.Of course, we could take it to it's inevitable State-inspired solution and suggest that restraints to motorists finally be imposed to make altercations with automobiles less fatal. Perhaps State-imposed speed limits that universally do not exceed 5mph? Cars fitted with State-mandated bubble-wrap perhaps; I'm not trying to by snarky, but bringing these themes together is very similar to most central planning social ideals - how can we take things that appear unfair, and equalize them? Well, lets reduce them to the lowest common denominator - how fast can a pedestrian walk?I prefer approach my own pedestrian safety with self-interest; I will be teaching my children a very healthy respect for the laws of physics - and a very healthy skepticism of societies conventions to the contrary. Life is just too short and fragile to put faith in imaginary boundaries that arbitrate between life and death. TL;DRStates perpetuate unrealistic safety expectations between motorists and pedestrians that threaten the safety of the very pedestrians these conventions claim to protect by creating a false sense of security.

That must have been an interesting conversation between her and her boyfriend. I imagine her being scared to death and having no idea what to do (I know in my Idaho hometown most legal immigrant families lived in constant fear of being deported at the first sight of an infraction); the boyfriend either convincing her to conceal the situation (cover-up), or possibly even just consenting to her decision to cover-up.Other pressures would be how you might be ostracized from your community for 'ratting' on your girlfriend, especially if your family and community has immigrant ties as well. It's also likely that if he pleaded guilty, he did so without private legal counsel; which means he could also have agreed to it to 'protect his girlfriend' - a common 'masculine virtue' in many cultures. (all speculation of course)Ironically, we seem to have an almost "Emperors New Clothes" blind-reverence for pedestrians - why we continue to indulge the fantasy that paved roads with 2000 pound machines cruising at high speeds are more capable of avoiding obstructions than humans who need little more than to... not be on the road, is absurd and has monstrous consequences in the legal system and pedestrian safety delusions! I find it insulting that the parents made no mention of this in their benevolent 'apology' - where's the ownership? She stole the opportunity to say goodbye to her girls?? How about "If only I had instructed them better about playing in the road", or at the very least "They were in the wrong place at the wrong time". Even if she hadn't swerved to hit the leaf pile, if I have 2 children within 5 feet of imminent traffic then I feel I've exposed them to harm well before the consideration of a reckless driver.To be fair though, I don't know the circumstances of where this accident occurred or any potential variants in the layout of this leaf pile and it's proximity on the road... but I really resent the accountability for people to respect the danger of staying off of roads is completely ignored over and over. (At the risk making light of this topic, I couldn't help but have this scene come to mind ... tee hee)www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jWH46rYOUE

I know the feeling - I still have some very awkward work relationships that are forever tainted because I jumped the gun in a discussion regarding the concept of initiation of force (Government laws being nothing more than the threat of violence) - because they were totally unwilling to consider the cascade of preceding concepts necessary to present that truth in the usual mainstream understanding - they now just think I'm homophobic because of the surface context in which I presented the idea (which was about the 'need for more discrimination laws to ensure gainful employment for the LGBT community'). /sigh... it can be exhausting - then I remember how long it took me to unravel my fantasies of the State to even entertain these truths and I'm able to at least find some patience.In any case, welcome!

Greetings FDR friends, My name is Jorell and I am from Utah. Long-time listener, first time participant.I have been on here for just a few days now, bouncing around the boards having a ball - this really is a one-of-a-kind enlightened community and after a few years of just drinking it in... the water looks really nice so I'm gonna jump in! My Story: I was a lifelong 'Mormon' (LDS / Christian) until three years ago (age 28), I became disenfranchised with my religion after many years of shaming myself for my my many sinful natural behaviors that just refused to adapt to my belief system - eventually my pitiful self-esteem just said enough... and I took an indefinite break. I read some Ayn Rand and for the next few years the floodgates on my previously quarantined ability to reason began to trickle and burst; my first exposure to FDR was none other than "The Story of your Enslavement", and I remember watching it on a Friday while at my desk - and I couldn't sleep all that night, or the following Saturday night. Since then I have listened to hundreds of Podcasts and kept wondering why I'm not swimming in the deep end with the rest of the nice boys and girls. About Me: - My girlfriend and I live together, we're both are big FDR listeners and we have no children (yet) - Fitness, I'm hopeless ectomorph but it doesn't stop me from getting the itch.- Nutrition, I really enjoy experimenting with Nutrition; mostly I enjoy the Primal / Paleo approach - Philosophy, go figure - seriously though, since my 'awakening' I simply cannot get enough - Reading, I will read 8-10 books a year, from Fantasy to Business motivation - very random. - I enjoy outdoors (Camping, Hiking, Fishing) - anyone that's been to Utah will know why - I am a firearm enthusiast, I enjoy the range, gun-safety, technique and benefits of possession. - I work in IT, I currently support the EMR systems for a Hospital here in Utah. - I like to relax to some Netflix with my lady-friend after work and cook meals together- I enjoy gaming, namely World of Warcraft when I can spare the time- I used to be more involved in my local LP community, but been more attracted to this community - We have 4 pet rats (this was her idea at first, but they've really grown on me - they're just so cute!) So, that's me - I look forward to meeting you all (also, the thread title is a reference to Abbot and Costello's routine "Who's on First")

Heya! I have felt that way at times, especially when curiosity becomes idea's, and idea's become philosophies... and philosophies become principles. They begin to gain momentum and pretty soon you find yourself basking in layers of peeled onion - while many that you may interact with daily just don't seem to have any interest in going beyond the outer layer. I hope you find what you're looking for - I am actually new too, so saying 'welcome' might be a bit pretentious on my part :PI find it really interesting (as a US citizen, born and raised) to hear other peoples perceptions of what living in the US is like. Do you mind if I ask what the your general idea of living in America is like, and if that is the main portrayal in French media? (and I don't mean to suggest any form of 'loyalty' here - not in the slightest, genuinely curious!) I'm not familiar with the works of Raine Eisler's works (by name, and Google overview only), but it sounds like some of the nomenclature you're employing is part of her namesake works (ie, 'caring economy'). To my naked eye, I also find the rational conflicts in this introduction unsettling, but as a matter for discussion, I would be interested in hearing outright more about the premise behind "The Real Wealth of Nations"... and what the proposition of some of her idea's are. From what I read on Wikipedia (I know I shouldn't admit that! Lol) it sounds very much like the rusty knife of most central-planners, but re-branded with her proprietary cocktail of contemporary Feminism.. but please elaborate and correct me where I'm wrong

I don't mean to presume / suggest this applies to the OP, but I couldn't help but feel a familiar sensation while reading it that I've had within a few years of having left my religion and begin to accept atheism; and that was an almost innate sense of defensiveness for my 'alma mater' religion, always fighting an urge to defend it's 'outright formal policy [beliefs]' with the actual social sentiments during day to day congregation among participants.Almost like a ten year old and getting upset with your sibling. The moment one of your friends jumps on the bandwagon and knocks your sibling, then comes the strange familial mantra "Hey! I can't make fun of them - you cant!"I remember being in Church and during the main service I would hear about the acceptance, unconditional love, forgiveness and compassion that God had for me... then fifteen minutes later I could meet in a private interview with my ecclesiastical leader and be told that I am literally unworthy to participate in certain functions until I had 'sufficiently repented' for various sins. These mixed messages were constantly construed in a way that ultimately you would have a very negative impact (no news here - dozens of FDR videos articulate this magnificently), garnished with very positive words and feelings (re: the words "I love you" engraved on the boot that kicks you in the groin). When I would find myself defending the words [supposed intention of the religious construct], I would often wrestle with myself to realize the hard reality of what I was defending.I don't know if that's what motivated the OP, or if it really was intended as a matter of correction - but if you are by chance dealing with those kinds of emotional conflicts with a religion, it would be worth delving into.

I'm going to admittedly piggy-back on your post and add my interest to a discussion on this topic. I've met a lot of free-thinkers that place a great deal of 'faith' in technology being the swift brown fox jumping over the lazy G-man, always one step ahead and even being the eventual medium in which a kiss of death is finally graced on a then (its always 'in the future') obsolete Government ecosystem... I would like to have a reason to think that's possible, but maybe I just lack the vision - I tend to feel the theme of this short to be more likely - the continuous perversion of technology to make Government more 'effective'; possibly even serving to prolong it's lifespan and reach. I'm excited to see *responses to this thread though *(or re-links of previous discussions, FDR videos, etc)

I find the idea intriguing (and inspiring), but it's very difficult to take any premise seriously with this kind of grandstanding generalization. (follow-up to that)... as a matter of principle myself, I actually believe in forms of motivation that take higher priority than monetary compensation. Most of my personal breakthroughs have been (and Dan Pinks TED video is great BTW - it's a great concept to explore and deserves individual consideration) at the behest of my own inspiration. So, in a very personal sphere I do believe in this principle works for me... in many instances. Where I disagree is that I this concept lacks universality, it's so dependent on individual variables, personality, circumstance and perception. Motivation as a study has been around for for a very long time, and has thousands of contributors - from Carl Jung to Tony Robbins. Who is to say that this applies to everyone? Also, what makes you think that this concept dis-validates the 'incentive philosophy'? Are you suggesting that the incentive philosophy simply does not work, or is less effective? In the context your projecting, does personal gain not factor into the 'incentive philosophy'? Does pride, recognition, better quality of life count as personal gain? Are you suggesting that the incentive philosophy can never be responsible for innovation in society, or are you talking more in personal intimate motivational terms - like, "you'll never achieve creativity / innovation that is genuinely meaningful to you, using an incentive." There are a lot of considerations that I think are being ignored; unseen considerations. Firstly, how many ideas have you come up with because you were in a situation, that you never would have been in had there not been an incentive in place initially? I've had some projects in my career that have earned me a lot of recognition but no additional pay. However, had I not already been in a position in which the incentive to be employed was already established... that opportunity to even be presented with a challenge to innovate - it never would have existed. That "Eureka!" moment at the 11th hour can happen because of circumstances that are already in motion, that were initiated on the basis of an incentive... so while the innovative idea wasn't immediately linked to the motivation for compensation - I feel it's a difficult factor to ignore. I find it a lot more likely to be creative when I know my physical, financial and emotional needs are already ensured... but maybe that's just me.

I wonder how much media bias (regardless of alignment) is deliberate in that it serves the machine to have people be emotionally vested in their team colors; and how best to deepen that emotionally vested loyalty than to incite hostility. That idea aside though, the media seems to be persuading audiences with less argument and more with the utter fear of unpopularity. Events like the *Trayvon Martin case are fantastic demonstrations how that fear was paraded in a variety of very sloppy attempts, but sloppy or not - it seems to be working. You can hardly talk to someone online that has not watched the court proceedings but is still manages to have a firm conviction of how the judgement should have been resolved. *(emphasis on the media method, not the specific outcome of the incident)

In the police line-up of the usual suspects, it is disappointing that they put the spotlight on the pill, and an unflattering spotlight at that. Another thing I found off-putting was likening the alleged unintended consequences of contraception to pesticides - that comparison feels really messy at best... I could throw a dart on my screen at a list of Karen Straughan videos, single out a paragraph at random and probably get a more accurate analysis on the same theme. My biggest objection though is that they limited the Male rationale to the incentive of obtaining unlimited sexual gratification, and not other influences; frankly when I was single my first consideration of having illicit sex was impregnating a woman in spite of contraceptive means (condoms still report having a 13% fail rate) and living with the consequences of that mistake... (both in life, and State-enforced consequences)Second, was the fear of becoming careless and catching a disease, third was the fear of entering a State-enforced contractual relationship that may not have lasting viability (bringing us back to #1)... finally, the 4th influence was "If I'm single I can play the field."So, in my personal experience there were 3 precedent considerations before the incentive for care-free sex - most of which were influences of fear not incentives.

More direct to your question however, I would find it really interesting to look at these programs from a vantage point of the unpredictable events among their perspective efforts.What measures do those pushing these efforts hope to instill to give their results the most lasting viability?What is the political climate like in surrounding communities and is there blow-back to their vision?What does that blow-back really look like in the regions of these programs?How do these organizations plan to measure their results - what analysis will they be using and what means?What do people in these movements disagree about most?What campaign strategies to they employ?How do they network the necessary personnel (legal counsel, reputation management, advertising)?What principles are emphasized (mission statements, etc), and what principles are compromised / tactically sacrificed?What do these groups report as being their biggest obstacles?I feel really inadequate to even offer suggestions on this, since I've only mildly investigated the NH Free State Program - but as an arm-chair quarterback think it would be fascinating to read about the challenges of these programs

As a matter of principle, I find it difficult to personally reconcile fighting fire with fire (as weeb and tasmlab very succinctly outlined)... but from a more pragmatic perspective, would I be disinclined to relocate to a geographical region where the cancer of government force was being substantially reduced? I think that would require a personal inventory of what would make that move worthwhile... for me, it would have to be unprecedented change to make a move worthwhile; mostly because the institution of government is still the medium of [said] reductions and can never be a source of confidence or security...Still, as a slave I see no shame in hopping the fence to a less brutal slave-master - and doing so would not constitute an act of approval for the institution of slavery, just improving your circumstances where available. In that context, I would admittedly feel a measure of good fortune in knowing that I've at least managed to align myself with the pendulum as it swings in that direction.