n25an

I have to say that I loved stefan's approach on this debate... stefan was dealing with the idea of basic attitudes and beliefs held by certain people groups... and the impact that transplanting these groups will have on the movement of these ideas... while adam was basically saying he wants to burn down the system and adam was arguing that no group is superior... and what adam was doing was cherry picking... for points to support his ideas... adam is the guy who would shoot to defend himself in the wrong side of town at midnight... while stefan is the guy who would not end up there... because he is aware of his soroundings... will probably not end up there...

I hear you... I don't agree but I see your point...

ok

I think you are a cool dude but I am asking how your idea of science deal with the adoption of new theories that at the moment better explain reality... I am not asking you what the theories say... for example what If a theory came into being that discounted planks constant... how would this affect your idea of science... for me in my early years all electrical circuits and electrical concepts were based on electron flow at the college and university level it was based around electron hole flow... and they took it into some very interesting directions... I figured this was mostly due to the idea that electrical circuit theory could more easily build on it... the precision and directions that the ideas went in were very interesting... another interesting idea is how today centrifugal force is not thought to exist whereas for a long time it was believed to be as real as pluto being a planet... for my sake... I adapt and have not learned to be married to any concepts... because for me a new theory can change all that... the question is are you the same... and if you are why ... and if not why...???

wow

in relation to the discourse we have been having

so how do you explain this... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superseded_scientific_theories

do you?

so how do reconcile newtonian physics vs einsteinian physics vs string theory vs theory of everything... or the new quantum computers in development that have ones and zeros and structures that are both one and zero at the same time...

reality -- the world or the state of things as they actually exist, as opposed to an idealistic or notional idea of them. which explains why theory is always changing... because man's understanding of reality always is changing... interesting...

so verifiable observable facts and statistics of a level that it can be used for reference or analysis and what's science... ???

define empirical data???

not theory tested against reality... but theoretical definition of reality... engineering is building a practical working model based said theory... cutting edge engineering... building the model based on untested ideas of theoretical definition of reality... or based on best guess or last failure... in other words... solve the problem and then figure out why it works... another way of looking at it... is to say that cutting edge engineering is skeptical or can be viewed as agnostic in relation to the ideas of the concieved boundaries of the laws of reality or known and understood theory... atleast thats my ideas... admittedly the ideas of a novice...

I have to say I rather enjoyed the points thadeus russel was bringing out. His ideas that science is basically a moving goal posts That much of our major philosophical ideas are moving goal posts Its rather intriguing... I loved his illustration about up and down... that if you drop a ball down... that depending on your perspective you might actually be dropping it up... This idea of perspective is very illustrative of a lot of things on freedomain radio. Atleast a lot of things that I have learned. A lot of things in life seem right because thats what you are taught... thats all you know... thats your echo chamber but if you take it from an outside perspective... it makes it obvious that some of our givens and standards are nothing more than golden calves and treasured notions... if not outright ivory tower and fairy tale nonsense... Thats one thing I love about freedomain radio... the ability to question and throw a hard look at things... I know there was a conflict between stefan and thadeus... stefan wanting to hold a philosophical argument to establish foundations... while thadeus was coming from an engineering point of view. Stefan's point is somethings are sacred... Thadeus argument was that somethings are sacred because thats what everyone agrees upon at the time... And to me both arguments have merit... Stefan... wanting to establish the validity of his ideas and chalenge them with new material... Thadeus... with his point of view that frankly seems more fitting of an engineer than an academic... was looking at things as they are... letting the data speak... Frankly, I would have liked to hear more of thadeus and less of stefan... I have heard stefan's arguments since time immemorial... but thadeus ideas... as applied to science... are intriguing... I am christian... but thadeus agnostic argument seems very intriguing... I honestly would have loved it if stefan would have asked more questions... approaching the subject from the point of view of his listener... less dispassionate... more openly... If thadeus is wrong... let him dig his own grave... and if he is right... not agreeing but give him time to say his peace... less gushing and triggering but more digging... if there is something stefan does not understand let it go... Leave it as an open question for his community to explain... but let the man thadeus speak... As it stands... I am going to seek out some more talks by thadeus... I feel I need to hear more about his ideas... right or wrong... we don't need to argue someone elses ideas... until we first hear them... and I honestly want to hear them...

I have a couple of questions... that might illuminate the scriptures... What is the purpose of religion? To control the masses What is the most important thing to pass down via scriptures? cultural or societal queues What are biblical stories? fables... What do fables teach? basic truths... Do religions desire the support of native governments? Yes... Why? Support equals acceptance... lack of support equals persecution... So a religions scripture or holy writing would support the ideas of the government and society that it lives in... Now lets look at the religious text... what basic idea was the fable or religious story meant to teach...??? You could judge this all by your touchstone but you have to put that aside and just see what its saying... forget about all the details and lets look at the key concept... god wants to keep man innocent... eating like animals... happy... not knowing difference between good and evil what would be good...??? knowing what benefits yourself what is evil... ??? change, progress, growth, what does the garden represent...??? a safe place to thrive... what does the devil represent... ??? an agent of change... progress... growth now the question if the devil represent an agent of change... why is he evil... ???? well some say the book of job is the oldest book in the bible... and it is one of the few books where we get a good idea of how the devil operates... his job is to observer and provide remmendations to god to advance the durability of humans atleast based on the book of job so using that as a guide... based on that logic... one could say that the devil went beyond his parameters... he did not observer and recommend to god... he took an interest in adam and eve and decided he wanted to be an agent of change and not just an observer of change... he became evil... he became an agent... and not an observer of change... he passed his place... so he had to be punished just like prometheus had to be punished... now why was adam and eve punished... because they looked to someone beside god to teach them... and why were they put out of the garden... because they would eventually represent a threat... what is the moral of this story... ignorance is bliss... ambition is a threat... enjoy your lot... and on the darker side... don't pass your place... you just might lose the little you have... Now consider societies of old... would this story's moral be an essential tenet... something that the reigning government want passed on? Yep... Now why is god plural... consider that in old societies... there were always pantheons... and christianity is based on older religions... the we could be a throwback to the idea of a pantheon of gods... remember new religions absorb the best of old religions like new movies incorporate the best of old movies... christianity did not grow up in a vacuum... it competed for an audience... and christianity is based on judaism... judaism grew up in the middle east and much of the key text... and concepts are transplants... from other cultures... why... it competed for an audience... that is how I understand it... for what its worth... that is my understanding of it... I hope my interpretation helps...

I love every podcasts even the ones that make me cringe and turn them off... usually means that I need to do some thinking... ok back on track... Stef please... do some skits... do some media heavy or clip heavy videos... do some two angel videos good angel bad angel... do a good stef bad stef video... stretch your writing mojo... craft something amazing... as far as amazing media driven video I have seen nothing since the truth about slavery... and I am desperate to see something you have so much material... that could easily lend itself to comedic interpretation... if you never do this... you still have some amazing material... if you do this.... and do it right... aaaahhh mmmmmm amazing...

If god is all powerfull then he cann't be all good and if he is all good then he cann't be all powerful... from batman v superman I am trying to source this... any help would be appreciated... any links to podcasts dealing with this quote would also be appreciated...

Here is my suggestion... (every one of these steps is going to be painful... every single one... but you can do it...) number 1 stop trying to negotiate and explain to everyone this new you... smile... be nice... do what you can... and build your self esteem... learn what it means to be happy... learn what people are like and what you can reasonably expect from them. number 2 build a community of friends... wow or something like that... and then try building one in real life... realize most people are never going to believe what you believe but this does not mean they cannot be your friends... just not friends around certain topics. number 3 focus on building your savings... get two jobs if you have to... build up a nice stock pile... you never know when things can go catastrophic number 4 focus on making yourself more employable... get new skills... training... see if there are any state programs... entrepeneurships... and such... number 5 see if there are any other people in your family that you can move in with or even board with. number 6 don't isolate yourself... get involved in a local group in your community... a hobby group... something... even if its a group that plays basketball at your local ymca... one day a week is good enough... I don't think what you are doing is defooing... I think what you are doing is building a life... once you have a life... an independent life... then you can defoo...

I am not a new member... I have been surfing these board for awhile... I am not sure if this is of any interest to anyone but I am a copier technician that provides free support for thos who own copiers, printers and other mfps. My philosophy how can you have an answer if you don't have the question? So I seek the questions... Probably why I ended up here... if you need help with copier stuff check out my blog... http://freecopiersupport.com and if you feel that it does not answer your question drop me a line and I will see what I can do.

moderators be gentle... If this post does not meet the forum guidelines... please feel free to delete it... I think this might be helpful to some people but who knows... it might just be me ranting... I had a chat today with a guy from work... We were talking about religion and he tore down jehovah's witness to a jehovah's witness by attacking him about who are they witnessing to...? He then went on the offensive about who has the truth... He asked my opinion about who has the truth... I told him... I don't judge a man by his vocabulary or religious pedigree. I judge men by the content of the character that I see demonstrated... not the content of their hearts because honestly... people play a good game of pretend... We then went on to discuss christianity.... He said that the muslims in the koran have a clear edict to kill non-believers.... but that christians do not... I told him that christianity was basically responsible for the dark ages. It advocated killing anyone that did not believe what the priest believed... and even launched the crusades which was responsible for many atrocities against those in the middle east... He said show him where jesus said to kill non-believers. I told him to search the first five books of the bible... I told him the closest jesus came to saying that was when he said... Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. -Matthew: 5:17-18 and by so doing giving tacit agreement to all that is written therein... He said he wanted to read that jesus said this word for word that we christians should kill nonbelievers. I told him the first five books were littered with such references... I even went so far as to tell him that christianity is a warrior religion but he would have none of it. after going back and forth like this I eventually ended the discussion... saying he would have to reach his own conclusions... after leaving the discussion... I took a search and came up with the following... killing in general in the bible http://www.evilbible.com/Murder.htm rebellious teachings of jesus http://www.nobeliefs.com/jesus.htm Now... to be sure I am no athiest... heck I am not even an agnostic... I believe in god... born in a minor branch of the presbyterian church, raised in church leadership and have done everything but speak in tongues... So to say I am a fanatic is not far from the truth... But as fanatic as I am about god. I am a fanatical seeker of the truth... and to be sure... christianity is a great story but it is paganism with a bow on top... christianity is paganism in the vein of "once more but with feeling" It takes paganistic practices but wraps them in a bow with a guilt pill on top... The only way I can now stomach the belief is to look at it from a gnostic point of view... These are stories meant to teach moral lessons... The moral lessons I am still unwrapping. And to be sure they are not the lessons you were taught in sunday school.... As a christian I was not taught to think but given arguments and chains of reasonings along with emotional tautologies so as to stop thought. I guess thats why I have been drawn to budhism but I digress. I am thankful for this board. Due to it I have begun to think. I lament my previous 40 odd years but I am glad atleast I have a little light now... Finally, I have something to help me explain myself to myself. Instead of guilting me into doing what others do and not necessarily what is right. Now I know stef is only human but with stef... I go by the verse follow me only in so far as I follow christ. Meaning there are days... that stef just goes off the deep end.... this is rare but it does happen.... this only means he is human... and either I am not ready to understand what he is talking about or he just wondered into a room that needs more thought... no one can know everything... Thankfully more often than not... its usually more of the former than the latter... hopefully this makes sense to someone... moderators be gentle...

helped a lot... I have moved on...

I have a work friend that whenever he gets angry... he starts lying... I am trying to back out of the friendship because I don't think this will end well for me. He is a cool guy to talk to but I don't know when this behavior of his will bite me in the but. please advize...

I work as a copier repair technician. I find that people want to engage in conversation at the most awkward of times. Like when I am trying to work on the copier. I find that if I maintain eye contact they won't let me work or worse yet. Blame me for taking longer. I typically keep working at the problem while they are talking to me to show them to leave me alone and let me work. I don't need to display dominance just fix and get the hell out...

can you unpack that statement for me....

I have heard the saying history doesn't repeat bit it rhymes.... is this rhyming for anybody...