dono14

Thanks for the reply, 1st extended 1 on the boards. I had another negative experience being late to a substance abuse counseling session to get a driver's license back after a DUI. The staff was horrible, and I thought there had to be something better. I then realized that 90% of the clients were court-ordered under probation- my DUI was in Wisconsin, the last state to charge DUI municipally rather than criminally, and I just have to see a counselor monthly. I went with a parent, who immediately exploded and went hysterical. Taking a walk with smartphone, I found a couple online counselor services. It struck me that by participating in a non-violent system, finding a counselor online, that would remove the threat of jail out of the system. I found a therapist who was very personable and plan to meet weekly. It is expensive though. My last couple therapists worked at reduced cost, and whenever I called places was suggested to go there. I think as many of these places are government grant-supported, a lot of people get funded there. The guy had a successful private practice but worked there also. I mentioned a couple libertarian things which he seemed to resent, which may have poisoned things. By participating in a free market (self-pay), I've found a few willing to work for reduced rates. It was a bit of a breakthrough as had I stayed in WI, I would have been suggested to go to a 'treatment' processing-center with very maladapted people. The first time I had legal trouble, getting caught smoking pot, I had to go to weekly group counseling, at the end of which (I was 19 then) the counselor (about 25) informed us that while she had originally thought we were bad people, she now understood we were people too. That dismissiveness destroyed about 75% of the previously accumulated work, but explained a lot of the body language she had, and the polarized dynamic between the us of compelled attendees and the them of her. Anyway, It's also difficult to say no to someone for me who's offering to help. Given my problems with rejection, I hate rejecting people, and try to take a lot of care when doing so. The internet makes it a little easier. Alternatively, most of my therapeutic relationships have been abusive in my opinion as the therapist has seemed to question what's wrong with me or belittled. I think that may be a way to keep clients. I've heard that many cluster Bs are attracted to the profession to learn how people work to exploit them further. You'd have to assume some sadists would be attracted to the vulnerable, and that being a psychologist for many people would be a thing of pride which an intelligent person might threaten. Especially viewing that any core issues I've brought up have been suppressed by the therapist, sidetracked in passive-aggressive fashion usually

I had a similar experience with overworked parents. I think Stefan's podcast regarding the narcissism of baby boomers to be a good resource. Doubt the vanity of self-absorption of a baby boomer, even your parent, at your own risk. It's easy to confuse your own empathy and concern for others with a generalization that all people have this. I think the fundamental difference in today's society between men and women is that women can leave you at any time, especially young & attractive ones, who are the ones you'd be concerned with. Because there's no social censure/shame for a woman being a slut (slut-shaming), I think your anxiety descends from this. It's extremely unethical for a woman to do this to a man, but they've been indoctrinated to call you 'butt-hurt' or 'weak' for being hurt by them threatening abandonment. In my experience, women choose either weak or fakely masculine men. In the former, these guitar-playing hippies are easily controlled, bend their opinions to suit, and aren't "possessive," meaning that the girl can sleep around with whoever in a hypergamous state when the opportunity arises. Since the economy is so weak, you get Cluster B types rising to leadership positions who have no difficulty in firing underlings that have the courage to have some dignity. Alternatively, women confuse bluster for strength, and frequently pick sales types or construction types that are not well educated or smart but are very threatening. The 'weaponized gangster culture' Alex Jones talks about. These types are very adolescent and pre-emptively threaten in body language and posture and challenger. I think the intelligent person finds these behaviors exhausting and pathetic. When was the last time that you were around a man who had an attractive wife or girlfriend and could allow her to mingle with others without having to make some dominating play? I've found these types to have decreased over time in my experience. In my personal experience, when I have dated attractive women and treated them well, and 'given them a leash,' they invariably abused this trust, while constantly complaining that their prior interests were abusive and overly controlling. So, as much as people may get perturbed by this, I think you are perceiving the truth and finding it ghastly. Which is why men hide attractive women in houses, why they can't politely tell you they're otherwise involved, etc. There's been a total loss of decency, as evidenced by the parenting style of the last generation. The sick people tell you that you're weak, and to get used to it. If you confront these abusers, they'll attack you violently until you go away or turn into one of them. It's just something you have to adjust to, that morality is dead, and your moral imprinting is a hook that abusive types use to turn you into an emotional or financial slave for them, be they politicians, welfare recipients/farmers, whatever. Total depersonalization and dehumanization of others, the atomization of society into warring fragments, a masterful implementation of divide and conquer. Dysgenics, the conquest of the US by the 3rd world and multiculturalism, and of Europe by Islam. And whatever you do... don't get angry

I've found there to be a lot of poor therapists. In many cases they've just asked how I felt about a circumstance, or agreed with my comments, and haven't made any suggestions. In these cases, it seems like they're just punching a clock until the session's over. The more deleterious effect is that I suspected that they fundamentally disliked me and were using the process to subvert my trust in therapy and people in general. I've never been able to speak my mind. The last one I saw worked at a discounted rate, associated with the Catholic church, and I got the impression from various comments was a strong leftist. So by speaking freely, I think poisoned the relationship. However, I didn't have the cash to pay a lot, and felt like my paying $30-$40/hr was more than just compensation. I was getting $15-20/hr to do what I considered more difficult work. The alternative is to buy a pack of cigarettes and talk to people at an AA meeting or on the street, but you get a variety of stabilities there. I think that many people use that or a bar as a therapy as the cost is lower. I've also had significant trouble with female gendered therapists. Whenever I bring up core issues, they get avoidant or passive-aggressive. The last one I saw stalled for 20 minutes before our meeting. It's this classic female chicken group behavior where they gather into a group whenever something they don't want to deal with comes up. I've also had a few refuse to see me. I think my broaching of misandry in society is related. Also, most of the male therapists I've seen are effeminate and while having the courage to stay in the room and at least acknowledge my feelings, don't appear to take them seriously. I think the fundamental problem is that there are a lot of unethical people out there, and when they are confronted with the truth, immediately appeal to coercive authority to hide it from the 'true self.' As many counselors are LCSWs, and are beholden to the government via grants or insurance schemes, they have conflicts of interest. And with the going rate of $100/hour generally for private ones, puts them out of many's grasp. I think the economic angle is conveniently neglected frequently in board and podcast discussions. Especially if one uses the median rather than mean figures, adjusts for persons not receiving government benefits, etc.

Hello. I am a fairly intelligent white male and find myself fairly ostracized by society. I understand the MGTOW movement via living near a college campus for a while, and inner cities to that previously ( my sexual market value was low in both places, despite Stef's arguments. I think his age and location have insulated him from the degree to which younger women in the US have been propagandized and advertised to pursue one of three categories: the non-white, the weak (read SJWs that are rail-thin), and the dirty ( skeezy men )). Much like the last show's caller, the guy who moved to Cambodia, I get the idea of being low to middle income in America (relative to an area, NYC obviously having heavy competition). Women seemed to really get off on having some dumb-ass or clearly deficient person to have around, and really seem to get excited in my opinion when some decently put-together person comes along. It seems like they get off on the nihilism of knowing they can always throw themselves after the next person who comes along, or pump out a kid and latch onto the government. I get the impression that associating with someone who can hold a conversation and is intelligent is fundamentally off-putting as it conflicts with their narcissism (the better looking ones). Obviously, the more attractive women are agreed with by the desparate white knights, which greatly decreases their incentive to have good contact with reality, speaking probabilistically. The basic dynamic I see is that they would rather associate with someone who is easy to control than not. In any case, the underlying intent of my post is to query the wider group as to whether they think rage is a reasonable response to this. In my personal experience, I once attempted to hold a woman to account for being dishonest and was attacked by a swarm of sycophants and white knights. It shared a disturbing parallel to a childhood experience where a best friend in grade school, a female before puberty (I'm male), whose parents were wealthy and professional (medical) but leftist wrote me off abruptly for being middle class and plunged into an exploration of who I viewed as fairly abusive, underhanded people who played the class card very hard. I suppose a related tangent is along the lines of the degree to which white western women have totally abandoned their own kind, and feel no shame about doing horrible things to the people who work insane hours and give up years of their primes in study carrels to dig through fascinating but dry details of how to get an iPhone (fundamentally a sex toy for girls) to work. I get the impression that Stef, as an actor originally, and hailing from the great white north, misses much of the experience of the rest of us, sailing above on an early hit of wealth, acting training for interacting with people before learning the tech stuff, etc. Just fishing generally for ideas. I suppose, with Trump and whatnot, to what degree are we being cowards in suppressing our rage for fear of career and personal life problems. I've lost a couple jobs and relationships already from sticking to FDR-type principles, but this one about confronting women about their unethical behavior is I think an edge case even for the free-thinking community.

Thanks for the reply. I think the post was too lengthy/whiny to solicit more comments. Downside of being pent up.

Hello. I have suffered from social alienation most of my life, and have always been surprised by this as I am fairly smart (top 5% SAT/GRE/various others), tall, athletic, etc. I see myself as generally ethical, and am fairly circumspect before acting generally. I did move to an area with a college campus and many social justice warrior types, and had a very difficult time there, but wrote off my social troubles as being due to that. In short, I took a couple years off dating then started again about a year ago, and ran into a series of seemingly disturbed people in short order. The first was a single mother who was very attractive, but it was an odd online arrangement. The thing deteriorated when she mentioned believing in crystals, the color of people's auras, and chakras. I also briefly saw a girl who was a daily pot smoker for the better part of a decade, who had been seeing a physically abusive boyfriend for 5 years who just left a week prior, and to whom she returned to after stating that she was done permanently with him. One question- am I & Stefan being too rigorous about requiring people to be logical? If I honestly had to do it over, I would have ignored these idiosyncrasies as I had previously been totally alone and now am again. To make matters worse, I did not expect to get attached to either, but a week after the second one ended, I suddenly had an 'acute stress reaction,' couldn't sleep for 3 days, and had to get Xanax from a physician, then ended up trying to see her after the xanax reduced the inhibitions at work and had a flurry of punches thrown at me in front of one of the nicer establishments in town, right around the corner from where I lived, and basically had my reputation destroyed as during a couple occasions dating I had a bit of performance anxiety after having taken a year off dating and being a bit nervous. The first girl I messed around with was a socialist and feminist and invited me back to her place after we met at a bar, then invited me into bed, then told her friends that I had been 'sexually aggressive' the next day and threw a tantrum, after being totally normal the next morning and asking for my phone number. The problem worsened as I entered a suicidal depression after being in what I thought was turning into a normal relationship with an empathetic person. People who knew both of us around town would make subtle asides regarding very private things I had shared, attempting to be vulnerable as Stefan suggested. I could see them really getting off on it, and during the girl's explosion she mentioned that I had never meant anything and the whole thing was insincere- girl here is relative- late 20s aren't girl ages (I'm early 30s). Anyway I found Richard Grannon's spartan life coach youtube channel, and it really, in my opinion, saved my life. I had noticed some odd behaviors like the narcissist death stare, and a fit of rage after mildly suggesting that daily drug use was a bad idea (while trying to help someone to be more healthy), and suggesting that while she was very attractive with a bit of regular exercise she could probably be a model or something similar. In any case, Grannon and Stefan had broached the topic of poor relationships being a result of patterning off primary caregivers. Further, my father is largely deaf, and thus was somewhat emotionally distant. My mother is very volatile, and alternates between explosive anger, sulking, criticism, and detachment. The topic of my intelligence was always threatening to both of them, and Grannon pointed out that narcissists can view children as competition to their perfection, which I feel describes my case very well. I was so depressed in middle and high school, until rebelling, that I had dark circles under and around my eyes constantly, would blink frequently, and sometimes would have eyes water uncontrollably. This was totally ignored by them, and if I ever brought it up I would hear about my being lazy and getting Bs instead of As occasionally, how hard they worked, and how my misbehavior was threatening their marriage (I was a total nerd). I sought out assistance from my extended family, people to talk to, and was essentially told that I was being weak, that my parents are great people, and that I'm a bad and weak person. I had developed a drinking problem when originally in college and had a bit of legal trouble after getting in a fight with a group that assaulted me then turned victim when the cops arrived. To make matters worse, the resultant depression aided my making a series of poor financial choices, and losing 2 IT jobs in short succession over the course of the year, which has made my regaining entry into the field difficult. I was advised by a therapist to move closer to family as I was living across the country in an area with no family or friends. Upon returning home, I realized that the reason I had left was that there was nothing to stay for. I am nothing more than a whipping boy for the family's frustrations, and always suspected but now have confirmed that they were looking for an excuse to discard me, which they now have from the financial troubles. I suppose I'm writing to see if anyone has had similar problems. While up there, I had always spoken my mind about FDR-type principles and found myself losing jobs, and friendships or relationships, etc very quickly in a very leftist, SJW-type climate with a state capital and state main campus in the same town, in the very reserved upper midwest, where truth is frowned upon if it causes any social stir. It seems that my attempt to be ethical has met with nothing but trouble. I get the sense, generally, that the ethical are being bred out of the gene pool. I'm fairly physically fit and surf, and always see the attractive women with very seemingly weak types, or ethnic minorities. It's very strange as when I engage people in conversation, with the exception of strong-willed professional types like myself or foreigners, they seem to drift or bolt away, especially females. I almost never see them with people that look like the type of person I am / would want to be- able to stand up straight. I do live in a semi-rural area currently which is essentially a mixture of trust fund beneficiaries, retirees, and a somewhat criminalistic, hyper-aggressive underclass which struggles to serve them. To attempt a question again, why is it that by trying to be decent, I seem to get a reputation as a bad person? I was thoroughly maligned in the last place, utterly vilified. It was so frustrating to work 50-60 hours a week in IT, and be totally hated for being a white male, or not being subservient to every woman or minority- just trying to preserve some basic dignity for myself. Why is it that sociopathic, evil people are so able to manipulate their currency of lies and thoroughly convince others that they are the good, that the people they torture are bad, and do horrible things to people then walk away being praised with no ill consequence? And how do people treat their children so vilely and have no regret for doing so. I was basically suicidal and called them and they were too busy taking a vacation or something to visit. Whenever they have health problems I drop everything I'm doing and fly wherever. The cognitive dissonance is deafening, and I'm stuck here another week or month or so before being able to skip out elsewhere. It's just so incredible to return to where I grew up, invited by family who I ran from, to find the place I grew up in desolate of friends, inhabited largely by strangers with no interest in talking, all the relative opulence of material but none in warmth or friendship, and this constant, petty infighting for women and/or position. It seems so unattractive but pervasive, and I spent so much time thinking I could rise above it but no longer see people as being morally capable of doing so.