TheW_nderer

There was a lot of me plus going on in my family, and religion is one of the ultimate demonstrations of that, and I realize that it may have fed into it a bit. I was homeschooled and that did lead a lot to my individuality, but the religious aspects made things a bit confusing once I was out of it. No one, in my eyes, would be "whole" or "virtuous" if I didn't do something about it. I realize now that I carried those ideas with me into my relationship, even when I finally gave it all up and realized my atheism. It's so awesome that you are sober and moving towards the life you want. I think there are so many people out there who try to steer us in the right direction in their own ways, and it's easy to write them off, but I'm definitely going to listen to people more. But dropping the plus now is really helping me weed through the bullshit friends/family in my life. It seems that there is a pretty good community here that you can be your true self around, and I really appreciate you all! You've given me some useful feedback as well so thanks! I'm actually planning on buying a boat with a friend and sailing the world! Good analogy! lol. I'm steering clear; keeping my legs crossed and guarding my heart(as Stef recommended lol).

I realize that that's been an issue in my life since I got out of homeschooling and they may have had to do with my lack of experience socializing then. I'm happy to learn about it now and I hope applying that advice will lead to healthier more genuine relationships for me in the future. Now as I interact with people around me, I try to drop any "roles" that I'm so used to filling. If they aren't going to love me for who I am, why should I keep them around?

It was a bit confusing, but you did give me some things to reflect on whether they applied to me or not. I think from the time I sent in the question to the time I actually got on the show, I had grown to understand what went on a bit more, and I think that's why some really important things didn't really come up here. I am so glad I called in. I'm doing much better now and am moving on to ensure that I live a happy, fulfilled life. Thanks for your input either way!

When people say ignorance is bliss this is the definition. But I don't think the ignorant can be truly happy, but that's just my opinion. We see the world as it is and try our best to conquer it through virtue and not denial, so when we succeed we are the one's who can feel true happiness and fulfillment because we are experiencing existence to the best of our ability and therefore care reap the reward to the degree that we are willing. I have and will continue to make so many mistakes, but if I deny reality, that is the ultimate loss because there's no where to go but in circles. I can be "happy" on the hamster wheel or I can hop off, realize I'm in a cage and try as hard as I can to get out, and when I do, feel amazing rewards in self-esteem, pride, self-knowledge and happiness. Oh, but the road is so long!

I don't know if it's the degree of dissatisfaction that sets us apart, because everyone has screwed up lives to some degree or another, and most people are in a perpetual state of "screwed" because they continue to utilize the same cause of their problems as a solutions. I feel like people who do that seem to be those who are less intelligent. I don't know. I guess it's not really our job to change the world, but rather, to be the most virtuous people we can be; striving to have the happiest lives that we can.

I feel the exact same way and did the exact same thing. Though I knew the issues all along, I thought that things would work themselves out like usual, but it was never really working. It's hard when you feel like you're "being there" for someone, while also being romantically involved. It's just like a perpetual state of supporting and waiting for the person to be okay enough to love you back to the same degree that you loved them. (Love in the action sense), but I don't think it works that way. Of course, feeling like you have new competition adds to the fire, because there's an added element of trying to prove your worth, when it should never be that way. If you are worthy of being loved and someone else is incapable of doing that, then you shouldn't settle for their no matter how good you feel around them.

I realize that. That's been my struggle all along, I knew they were at odds, but I didn't take actions to try an merge the two again. I am drawing comfort from knowing that, with time, all aspects of me will be consolidated and I will relieve myself of this inner conflict. If I really cared about myself and my happiness over sustaining a relationship I would have done what your ex did and avoided this dramatic situation to some extent. I feel your pain in this situation, and I hope that we can both heal from it and become better people in the end.

I'm starting to lean this way as well, but it might just be a lost cause if we are focusing on a demographic which is genetically hindered from being open to reason.

For sure. Thanks for the advice!

I'm in the process of letting this go. It's easy to blame other people for your outcomes in life, but I have taken a lot of things to heart and have come to grips that I have only received what I have accepted in regards to my relationship. As I list off things that I saw in my ex, I am really haunted by the idea that I accepted them, regardless of whether he is an asshole or an angel, in the end, I am the person who chose to be in the relationship and what does that say about me? (of course there's that gnawing voice in my head that says "am I the only one who has to behave?" lol) I really just want to be happy, and though I am obsessing over the details in my relationship it's because it's kind of become a case study for me in that I've listened to so many podcasts from Molyneux and a lot of what I've heard perfectly aligns with my situation, and because of that, it's become a bit thrilling to look at from the other side. I don't really have strong feelings about this matter, but I have really annoying thoughts about it all day. I know I have work to do and I really want to be prepared on what to look out for if I ever choose to be in a relationship again. Thank you for the link!

That makes sense, but one has to consider who will raise these children. I guess people like us will have to crank out absurd amounts of children in order to make any difference at all in the grand scheme of things. I know you're right, but it's just a bit discouraging.

Oh I see what you. I don't see that as something that relates to me. I am not interested in men for their money, I've always done well to provide for myself and prefer it that way. This is a common concern for women I suppose which makes your thinking this understandable. I was more turned off by him talking of his elderly grandmother as someone he's waiting to die so he can inherit her things. Kind of like moocher behavior to me. That was one thing that I often felt uneasy about with him, it was that he would try to use where he went to college, where he lived or his grandmother as a way to win points with people. His grandmother doesn't really support he and his family, he paid for college with the money he won from a car accident he had as a child, and though he lives in a richer area, his family lives modestly in a tiny apartment. None of that stuff ever mattered to me. I thought it was interesting that you referred to what you're upset about, that this new girlfriend of his will get thanks to you and instead of you, as an "inheritance". I think maybe you're saying that this is kind of a pattern of him that I should have realized? That he uses women to get what he wants and then uses that to get the next woman like his grandmother? Possible. I really don't like failure, which is probably why I waited so late to have relationship and fought so hard to keep it in the end. I never felt ready or compelled to try deep relationships with people until now, and I really did see a future in it, though I had my doubts along the way. Deep down I know it was for the best that the relationship ended, because it wasn't a rational one and I knew that all along. The virtues I ascribed to my ex were actually just fabrications of my own doing to make up for what he lacked. He was an asshole, yes, but I knew he was an asshole and I accepted that even though I did encourage him to do better. The hard thing is when that person seems to be open to going after a better happier life, but in the end, chooses the easy way out. The day we broke up, he asked me "what if I need a codependent relationship?" to which I replied "I couldn't give you that" he later looked up what codependent meant and was horrified that it described him perfectly. I pointed out how it perfectly described the relationship he was having with the other girl, but he just brushed it off.

I don't really mean just in coping with relationships, but I guess my point it this: if their are intellectual restrictions that may hinder people from being capable of this lifestyle, then couldn't it be seen as a lost cause to attempt to spread it? If Stefan says that mostly people of higher intelligence are able to stand his show, doesn't that limit the cause quite a bit?

His grandmother is, but doesn't continually support him. She helped him through college and that's about it. Though he has talked about the inheritance he would get after she died. As far as the addiction to failure, could you explain what you mean by that? You think perhaps I wanted my relationship to fail or I love when others fail?

So what do you think are the implications of this for those of us trying to spread philosophy?

He had no money when I met him and for a while I made more money than he did and rarely ever allowed him to pay for things for me.

Tonight I'm chatting with a friend about self-knowledge and philosophy for the first time in our 7+ year friendship. For the past month or so she has been expressing dissatisfaction with her life, and even though she is doing great things career-wise, she says she is still unhappy and has anger issues that she can't seem to explain. When these things, come up, I tend to ask her questions about herself to see if I can help her pinpoint from where some of her dissatisfaction has arisen, and when I do, she can't seem to see the connections. A little background about my friend. She isn't the most "intellectual" person in the world, and though she has graduated college and is moving on to a successful career, she is the type of person who shares Cosmo or other horrendous relationship magazines on her FB page all of the time and still has problems understanding what love is other than "a feeling" or a guy taking you on romantic dates. She's had some really dramatic relationships, and her bf broke up with her about the same time mine did, so we've kind of been bonding over it. Our relationship has, admittedly been quite shallow in that she has never quite been self-reflective or able to carry on deep, intellectually stimulating conversations, and I feel a lot of it may have to do with her intelligence. But recently, I've began to sprinkle in more and more philosophy to test out the waters with her, to see if she's actually capable of the deep, stimulating conversations I've been lacking in nearly all of the relationships I have. So coming back to today. We got into a discussion about love and what it means, after talking about my ex and how I don't know if he ever actually "loved" me. This led me to ask her what she thought love was, and she replied that she didn't know, but mostly just a feeling. I told her I didn't think it was just a feeling, and she inquired about what I thought it was. Because I was pressed for time, I linked her to Molyneux podcast that discussed the difference between love and lust and told her to listen to it and tell me what she thought. When she saw the length of the video(approx. 40 mins) she complained that it was too long, and that she didn't "get the point". The caller was discussing some issues that were completely relevant to her situation, and addressed a lot of the questions she has brought up to me, yet, her response to me was that she was worried about me. How she thought that because of my breakup I am in a weak place and am easily brainwashed and needed to relax. Mind you, she hadn't really listened to the podcast, but had already made the judgement that it was wrong and that I was being brainwashed. I can't tell if the video was completely over her head and so she felt defensive, or if she really had objections to it. Which of course has led me to wonder something that I've wondered about the people around me since I was a child, "are some people incapable of deep-thought/reason with me because they are not as intelligent as I am or is it because they just don't want to hear it?" I've always encountered these types of objections from people who are very religious which I sometimes involuntary equate with lower intelligence, and have always gotten the "you're being brainwashed" or "you're so arrogant that you think you're smarter than us" arguments and so I have always wondered if that was the case. Is there a strong connection between intelligence and those who are able/willing to apply philosophy and strive for self-knowledge? It's often said that "stupid"(not calling my friend stupid) people think they know everything because they don't know what they don't know, which in my eyes has led people to downplay philosophy and self-knowledge because they don't know the boundaries of their knowledge and therefore feel that they have all of the answers to life's questions, having never inquired about them. One thing I've noticed about Stefan's callers is that they always seem very intelligent and he even comments that if people are interested in his show they must have relatively high IQs. Why is that? Is it a lost cause trying to reason with people, who may actually be incapable of reason? I'm sure this post sounds like the most, arrogant, narcissistic load of crap to some, but it is a genuine question that has been bothering me for a while. I really want to help my friend and I feel like she could benefit a lot from applying reason and striving for self-knowledge in tackling the issues she is facing, but I don't know how to go about doing it, or if it's possible at all.

This thread has helped me a lot too, especially getting to chat with other people who understand the philosophy behind relationships. Nothing has really soothed my mind as much as talking it out with people on FDR, and I'm grateful for that. I just wish that this were possible with the friends I have around me, but it's just not the case. I don't see how fulfilling life could possibly be if my goal were to fill it with like-minded people, because there are so few, and so I need to find other outlets. I still think about my ex everyday, even though he's gone for good and I made the decision not to be friends in the future, it's really annoying and don't know what to do about it. I have these obsessive thoughts all day long about why things went they way they did, why I dated him in the first place, why I fought for him, is being with a virtuous man a realistic goal, am I all that virtuous, etc...? bleh.. How did you work through that aspect? Did you have the struggle between your reasonable mind and your "heart"?

Hannah, Do you feel that your life was already in a state of isolation before you got into philosophy or was it completely brought on by your philosophical views?

Yeah. And I almost get that strange sense like I did when I attended church as a kid, that we are working towards some great cause and in the process of helping each other, we're becoming like family; philosophical brothers and sisters in a sense. Which is concerning... I know this is ridiculous, but it somehow feels this way.

I find it a bit unbelievable that rational women have got it made because it's apparently "raining" rational men. If we really think of the size of the population of rational people in the US and then stretch that over 50 states and thousands of cities, it seems that both men and women are hard-pressed to find someone who is immediately compatible with them philosophically. Therefore, whether male or female, we are all for the most-part going to have to come to grips with the "scary" option in a partner. Especially if we are unwilling to relocate. Speaking personally, I consider myself a virtuous woman who seeks self-knowledge and companionship, but have found myself still settling for the "fix-me-uppers" due to seeming lack of other options. So isn't it more realistic for everyone to prepare themselves to find a person who isn't virtuous and turn them into someone who is? What is the incentive that virtuous women have to hold her virtues as the standard by which she is held in regards to relationships if the competition is kept so low?

It's so interesting to read these posts about lucid dreams, because I can never remember my dreams except for the last two which involved my ex. Is there some connection in the brain which would explain I would only remember these types of dreams? Also, how do you tap deeper into yourself to reach the level where your dreams are lucid and memorable?

Thanks for sharing your story! It comforts me to know other people can relate, but I do want to learn from this, and even with a week of reflection, I can understand so much more about myself and my ex and see how we weren't good for each.. Maybe I was good for him if he really wanted it, but he wasn't good for me to value so much. I'd love to talk more about your journey with you so feel free to shoot me a message or skype me. I'm really looking to add more people in my life who share my passions for reason and self-knowledge. I can't agree that he wasn't interested, but he did resent it. I feel much better about it after discussing it. Thanks for your input, I'd love to stay in touch!

I think if I ran with Hank Rearden's brother as an example, it does go a long way, and yes, there was something that Hank had to change in the end to set himself free. But I guess it leaves me afraid that I will end up with only the people living in Galt's Gulch.. imaginary friends. At some point in my heart, I wish I could be the girl he left me for, because at least she will have loads of company and have her needs met by the average person. But in my mind that really doesn't look great to me and wouldn't lead to my happiness, and that's why I'm so annoyed that I still have any feelings towards even the idea of him.