Rachelle

Hello, Chad and thank you for sharing something so personal. I've been in a relationship that shares some similarities. The relationship I was in was more of a friendship or mentor/student so take that difference into consideration. The similarities are that I was also home schooled and lacking an official education, the relationship was long distance, and I was also guided by this person. The relationship ultimately ended after around 2-3 years. I don't know if it will be like this for you but I can offer my perspective and suggestions. My number one suggestion that I can't stress enough is to just be honest with her. Specifically, be honest with her about your experience of the relationship. Let her know how her negativity or actions are affecting you and your enjoyment of it and that you don't know what to do to help or even if you can. If you aren't honest with her about your experience then you're not really the one in the relationship with her and real connection becomes impossible. Instead, what can happen is that characters (like being the Guide) get created that you act out depending on her mood in hopes that it will change whatever negative emotion she's experiencing. If anything it'll only temporarily change her mood but it won't identify the root cause of her feelings and so they'll come back (like when you're gone/not playing the character) and it'll also hurt you because you're not being yourself. I would just be careful and see if you're comfortable being honest/yourself in the relationship and if not then do further exploration into why that is. You said that you're a fixer and that you want to fix her being in a bad mood all the time. Fundamentally I don't believe you can and I'd also be careful of seeing any emotion/mood in need of being fixed. That's not to say I don't understand wanting to feel different emotions other than negative ones all the time. It's just how you go about treating yourself in order to feel differently. Are you being forceful or deceptive or aggressive in order to temporarily change the emotion or are you validating how you feel and identifying the root cause of the feeling?. In my experience once you understand where the emotion is coming from you can help heal the wound the feeling is bringing attention to or you work toward leaving/changing the environment or people around you that's causing it. Finding the root cause may not be easy if it comes from childhood trauma and while exploring that it can be very scary. Which is why I think it's important you learn better ways to treat yourself (get better tools) and therapy can help with that. I'd ask both yourself and her if either of you want to be in a romantic relationship where you're seen as needing to be fixed or needing to fix your partner and how this would make you feel in both roles. You can support her but you can't do the work of figuring out why she feels what she does and you can't choose for her to want to do that work. You can be her ally but not he savior because you're not her, you haven't lived her life or experienced what she's experienced or made her choices so it's not possible for you to feel what she does and find out why. Even in therapy the therapist won't do all the work for the person, because they can't. If she's going to stop at saying it's circumstances or stress then she's not going to get very far in self-understanding and won't exercise much control in her life. Which will likely make her feel helpless (and depressed), and you coming in to try to do the work for her will not aid her in that feeling of helplessness it'll just make it worse. Again, to be clear you can definitely support her, just be careful not to take control or attempt to do work that she has to do herself, and above all be honest with her about your experience and what you want from the relationship. It may just be she's not able to give what you're looking for right now and it's best to find that out as soon as possible for both your sake and hers. I stress "it may" because I don't know whether or not it will work for you two, these are just my concerns and my suggestions based on my experience and conclusions I've come to after much work. So I could be wrong, or what I said may not even apply to your situation. Whatever the case is I hope you take care of yourself.

Wow, what an incredible amount of trauma you experienced, I'm sorry. It's amazing that you survived and have grown as much as you have. One thing that stands out to me is that you described how your mother didn't have or allow any physical boundaries to the point of molestation (in my opinion). The reason is stands out is because I myself have been making progress in creating healthy boundaries in relationships. They've been more emotional and mental than physical, but nonetheless it's been on my mind and I've realized the importance of healthy separation from another person's life. I don't believe you are being supported in this and are actually being encouraged by your fiancee to establish or reinforce healthy boundaries with your abusive family. There are no lines being drawn and protected, instead you are being told that you should open yourself and your children up freely to people who have done you great harm and will do so again if given the chance. I know you said that your fiancee was sensitive, and perhaps she is in other areas but it is extremely insensitive for her to want you to bring your family into your life and the lives of your children, especially because she knows what they have done to you. This honestly makes me quite angry, not only because it's cruel to you but because innocent children will be knowingly offered up to evil. For what reason is child sacrifice on the table? What would be bought at the cost of your children? I would seriously dig into her motivation for this(she likely doesn't even know the deeper reason) and get to the root of it because if I were you I would be very concerned about the future safety of my children if she is not only okay with her children being around abusers but actually actively invites them in. You say she decided to invest in you when you say you weren't in a good place/had destructive patterns you wanted to change, that only affected her, that was her choice to make and risk to take, just because you've made choices to live a healthier life and break the cycle of abuse does not mean the same will happen with your other family members should she invest in them. If it was just her and you and it was something both of you wanted to take a risk on, then fine, I wouldn't advise it but it's your choice, but that's not the scenario being put forth here. You're talking about your children who will not get to choose whether or not to take the risk, you will choose for them and they will suffer any consequences. Perhaps you should ask your fiancee if she would like to experience everything that you went through at the hands of your family, and if her answer is no then ask her why she wants to her children to experience it. Do you have to be an island? I don't know, maybe you do right now but I doubt that would be the case forever, perhaps you can move to a place that has people who share more of your values? Look into different communities, sate your appetite by talking with people online until then. At the very least I'd suggest not investing in a dead end, which based on what I've read sounds like your family and try investing in other people who you at least don't know whether or not they're dead ends yet. Imagine how confusing it would be for your children when they're abused by your family and they know you're the one who took them there or that you invited these people to your home. You would be teaching them not to value themselves and that these abusers are their masters, the people with power. That was my experience anyway, when I was offered up to my grandparents in a misguided attempt for my mother to gain parental affection. I didn't appreciate being sold or abandoned for however many days, I doubt your kids would either. You listed many good values. If you truly do cherish them then protect them, yourself, and your real family (the one you choose/create). Please be safe, it would be extremely sad for you to go back to hell when you've fought so hard to get out

I think I clarified what I was thinking and where I stand on the matter, I think there's enough out there for people to draw their own conclusion and see any mistakes I may have made in my thinking. I understand I'm responsible for first engaging in this conversation, and at this point I'm choosing to disengage. I'm having a fairly intense emotional reaction to the conversation due to something that happened recently that's very similar and that I'm still processing, and some other stressful things happening in my life right now causing anxiety, which is making it very difficult for me to be objective. My fear is growing which will increases the risk of myself using defenses that could potentially hurt others or myself, and that's something I wish to avoid. I do not wish to submit to the unjust out of fear and end up enabling attacks on the innocent. I'm not in the mental state to handle much conflict right now, so I'll just thank everyone for their participation in the conversation, including those who challenged me on my original post, and I'll continue to reflect and hope truth will be found and defended. Thanks.

Personal experience does count. The people who gave a personal experience (although a brief one) I didn't have a negative reaction to. I did not see in Wuzzum's post or in Danskes any personal experience offered, only what I saw as snarky comments. I said in my original post that I do not know the history, so I do not know whether or not dsayers has done something wrong and deserves other people's frustrations. I never said that I believe everyone will believe anything they hear or that I think they're stupid and I don't see how anything I said indicated that that's what I was implying or saying. I don't think it's fair for you to tell me what I think, and in the interest of being honest, it annoys me. I'll try to clarify what I thought when writing the post, and also say that before going to bed last night I had thought over my post and thought I may have come across too antagonistic and would look it over the next morning (today). After looking, I do think it was wrong of me to be so quick to label others' actions as irrational and not at all empathetic. I'm sorry. I should have been more curious and empathetic myself and asked why there were so many negative reactions instead of being accusatory. I believe I chose the latter because I was afraid to engage and thought I would be attacked (based on the already seen aggressiveness, and my history) if I did, I thought I would be attacked even posting what I did but I thought I was standing up for others that may be in a similar situation as I have been in. I've been in situations where people have accused me of something in a group and had others gang up on me, not willing to engage in conversation and not willing to provide any proof, and that's what I saw happening. One of the points I was trying to make in my original post I do still believe to be true. I was being honest when I said by all means provide evidence if he's done something wrong, and now adding onto that: or personal experiences. I do believe people look like bullies when they're posting aggressive comments on the forum without providing evidence or historical experience, because a lot of people don't know the backstory so they can only take from what they see, or question those who are involved. To be clear, I don't and never had a problem with what RoseCodex posted. That's someone who I would be more willing to question if I was curious or wanted to accept dsayers offer of connection, as he clearly states he has had past experiences and they were negative (this doesn't prove dsayers did something wrong), instead of posting short comments that appear to just be for the purpose of showing disapproval that may or may not be justified especially considering they may not even know the person or had previous experiences. I don't know dsayers, if I did I imagine I would know the history here. I'm not sure why you think it's acceptable for me to ask for evidence if I know the person but not acceptable or at least not understandable if I do not. I don't need to know someone in order to want to defend someone against something that appears unjust to me based on what I'm seeing. As for the rapist example, I think it is a problem if people are accusing someone of rape if they didn't actually rape someone, but I agree with you that people are responsible for believing something/someone without evidence. My point was the one calling rape without evidence or experience looks like a bully and I would be skeptical of what they were saying. To Danskes: Yes, you're right in that dsayers showed little to any curiosity towards Rose. Being an outsider and not having information I would lean more towards the conclusion that he doesn't want to engage/connect with him further at this point, even though he says he's open to it, but was more interested in defending himself. Based on what he's saying he's tried connecting in the past and it didn't go well, so if that's true and I was in his position I would be more interested in defending myself rather than connecting with someone I didn't believe was open to it at this point in time. To Wuzzums: Yes, I am. I wasn't originally, but re-reading I can see that. I have no idea whether or not anyone here is justified in showing a lack of curiosity and empathy. Perhaps dsayers deserves it or others do. I honestly don't know. Thank you for offering that information, it does help give some clarity and perspective, even though I don't know the details. If that indeed happened then I can definitely see why that would be taken as an insult. I just don't have any evidence for what's happening beyond the evidence in this conversation, which is very little.

I obviously don't know the history here between dsayers and other members of this forum but I do find the people responding to his thread lacking curiosity and empathy. From what I'm observing it appears dsayers is being attacked for reaching out. Attacks in the form of comments like it's "amusing" for him to take a insult against his character/integrity seriously and for him take the effort to push back. I don't know what is meant by amusing but I'm experiencing it as just plain condescending. I also think it's irrational and not at all empathetic to accuse someone of negative behavior (being defensive and not processing triggers) without providing any evidence. If some members truly believe dsayers is not a man of integrity and wish to call him out or warn other members of the community, then by all means do that, but do it by providing evidence, otherwise you just look like a bully without any compassion.

I honestly don't know much about sports. It's hard for me to imagine sports as having the single purpose you mentioned, because I believe the purpose you have given is admirable and beautiful, but it is not one I have often heard given as a reason for sports. I've heard something similar more often when people pursue such things as martial arts and it's something I've always found attractive. I don't know if you're biased or not. You've probably had multiple experiences where intellectuals do indeed shun physical activity. It's likely that those intellectuals have quite a few of their own experiences with those who pursue physical activity and mock or disregard intellectual pursuits. So bad experiences coupled with being insecure with one's weakness is one area may make it difficult for people to see the value in both. People tend to play to their strengths, probably because in some ways it's safer, but far less fulfilling in my opinion. The first thing that pops into my mind when I think of people who are into sports is a person with very tribal loyalties with very little intellectual thought behind their choice of tribe(team) and their actions (defensive behavior). The people that I've met also seem to have very little self-knowledge and don't really have much of an idea of why they do what they do, and they also don't seem to care to know. That of course isn't limited to people who enjoy sports as most people I meet are like that, but that is initially what goes through my mind based on my experiences. However, I do think there is value in sports. I definitely agree with your first point on the advantages of sports. Although I think the same can be achieved through any physical activity. Your second reason is one of the values I see in sports/games and that's teamwork and the closeness you can achieve by working together not just mentally but physically. There can be moments of this and when it happens I think there's an incredible feeling of strength and companionship, like a brotherhood of sorts. I think it does satisfy a tribal need. Honestly outside of sports I think there's a very serious lack of physical contact among people whether it be friends or family or even greeting strangers. I think a lot of us are not valuing physical contact with other human beings nearly enough. I also agree with the other reasons you've given but I think just like the first point you could achieve those through exercise of any kind, whether it be on your own or with others. I see at the end you're suggesting that even walking would work, so I'm guessing you're not just advocating for sports but just physical exercise as well?

Yes, that was exactly what I was writing about and exploring for myself in a very emotionally intense way. You said it very well. It made me smile and was enjoyable for me to read. It's nice to know that it was understandable to you even if difficult to parse. Thank you for taking the time =). The subject you stated so clearly is one I'm continuing to explore, and with the conversation I had with Drew about shame and fear of punishment, I'm making some exciting progress. So I'm very happy to have posted this on the forum. I think that you have good advice and would be more helpful if I was intending on writing professionally but that is not a decision I have ever made, but perhaps in the future as I do enjoy writing. What I had written was not professional quality, nor do I believe it necessary to be. I'm not sure if you were suggesting that everything I write I should write with a professional mentality but if so that does not appeal to me. However, I am actually quite interested in some of the ideas you had about empathy, vid games, and books. I'm also interested in some of the writing advice you have given, and your experience with writing, including your motivation for doing it. Perhaps we could have a private conversation sometime to discuss these things and maybe you could even share some of your writing. I think that would be cool.

Lol thanks, I didn't edit what I had written before sending it. That's very interesting feedback and makes a lot of sense to me. I'll keep it in mind if I ever write with other people more in mind. I had myself in mind and the confusion from the mix of different characterizations reflects how mixed it was in my mind at the time and the effort put into understanding what each of these characterizations have in common and what they mean to me. My internal parent and child parts have many roles and expressions. So I can see how this would be confusing to write multiple out and for others to read, but in my mind it was for the purpose of exploring their common characteristics. My main goal was to aid myself in understanding that my inner child is not a burden. I shared it for reasons previously stated but also because I thought I may get differing perspectives or perhaps people would offer me some insights. I do appreciate the advice on how better to write/communicate as this is definitely important as well. I certainly won't get differing perspectives or insights if no one understands the content of my writing.

Thank you for the offer and for leaving it open, I appreciate it. I'm going to do more self-work/self-therapy and exploration on my own until I feel more comfortable or believe it will be better for me to seek assistance in this area. It is something I continue to explore within myself as to why there might be hesitation and what I believe would be best for me. You'll be in my thoughts and if I change my mind then I will let you know.

Yes, I'm sure I would benefit from exploring those topics further, and it's definitely something I intend to do. I'll look into the book recommendation. I've read The Drama of a Gifted Child by Alice Miller a couple of years ago and it had some insights that were helpful. So I imagine it's likely this other book would also have some insights. It most definitely is harder to work through something, I agree. I'm currently not looking for professional help/a therapist right now, but I will further consider your offer. I'm not sure whether or not it would be conducive to explore unresolved material on a public forum, but I don't feel comfortable doing it and do not intend to. At least not at a deeper level than I already am. Unless for some reason I believe it would be helpful, but right now I do not.

Most things that I write I initially write with myself in mind then either during or after finishing I decide to share it or not. Unless of course what I am writing is like a letter/email to someone or a response to something someone said. So, yes it was for me but then I decided to share it, and all I am saying is that it was my decision, not something that just happened. The thought indeed happen to come into my mind, but I chose to act on it. In my mind I'm taking "it happened" as I had no control and there was no decision that was made, as if it was a subconscious reaction or something. Perhaps I am assuming more harm than actually done. I'm not quite sure what to measure to figure out whether I am or not. It's an unpleasant experience for me when others inflict their unjust perceptions onto me, especially if they believe I have wronged them or act out in anger towards me. Even if I understand they are not really seeing me, it is still an obstacle to connection or intimacy. This is not behavior I want to exhibit, if it isn't really happening in reality then I need to be able to recognize that and act accordingly, otherwise I may hurt people as I have been hurt. This is what I was apologizing for. I may be at times quick to apologize for defensive reasons as you suggested but the reason I have given is very much in my mind and a part of why I felt the desire and thought it right to apologize. And as you said, you aren't my therapist so this behavior was not agreed upon beforehand as being understandable or acceptable in the conversation. Your last paragraph resonated with me and was helpful to read. Overall this whole conversation has so far been helpful to me, even though at times it has been difficult for me.

I'm not sure what you mean by what you said wasn't wrong. It was wrong in the sense that it didn't just happen, it was a conscious choice I made that was all I was pushing back against. I am definitely putting in effort for you to understand. I don't believe anyone will ever be able to fully understand me because they'll never be me. So I have my doubts that my goal is full understanding, but just because I have that knowledge doesn't mean I'm not going against it so perhaps you're right. I do know that I am afraid of you attacking me. What kind of attack is unclear, except the words dismissive and mocking comes to mind. I have a problem where I read into things that may not be there in reality, like for instance starting to think that the person is annoyed with me or has a conceited superior mental attitude. As if they are looking down on me. Sometimes there are signs that point to this and other times I don't have enough evidence to make that claim but I will still act in preparation because I'm unsure if it's really happening or will happen soon. This is my own issue and not I'm assigning responsibility to others for this, and in fact, I'm sorry for inflicting my unjust perceptions onto you as that is not fair or kind. I very much believe this is fundamentally a fear of rejection that comes from a lot of experiences with my parents' parents where I was mocked or thought of as pitiful (bad), and not being defended from the people who did this to me. At a deeper level I think I am still unsure how to defend myself because while I may be angry or sad by the treatment and have evidence as to why it was wrong and not my fault, I don't think I've ever fully believed that I didn't/don't deserve it. I might be using others (you) as affirmation that either I am or not pitiful or deserving of mockery by sharing that which is personal or deep and waiting for a response. I believe I put myself at the mercy of others by doing this and as you said can make for an emotional roller coaster. P.S. Initially I had a very difficult time considering and accepting that you might be right in your interpretation. I could tell I was defensive and scared because I thought that if I did accept what you said then you would attack me and in my mind perhaps even be justified in doing so because what I was doing was "incorrect" or "unhealthy" = I'm bad. However, after going through that and finishing my response I now feel quite a bit more relieved and not as scared as I was before.

I agree that we are responsible for fulfilling our need to be understood. This why I don't blame anyone for not understanding, unless of course they're purposefully trying not to. I didn't just happen to post this and an audience didn't just gain access, I shared this part of me on purpose because I was so joyful from the experience and I wanted others to appreciate and be apart of that. One of the reasons misunderstanding makes me sad is because so often the people in my life would judge negatively anyone they didn't understand. So being misunderstood was communicated as losing value and there was no appreciation or interest in self expression. I haven't quite fully understood or overcome that insecurity and at times of great vulnerability it's harder for me to separate from that part and not be afraid. It's a work in progress. I think seeking understanding from others is natural and healthy, but when you seek understanding from others and you believe their understanding determines your value...then that is a problem. One that I'm still working through.

Thank you for the feedback. Yes, fighting the child/parent within is to fight oneself, that is exactly what I was trying to say. I don't blame you for having difficultly following my writing/thoughts, it's true I was tired while writing it but it may also hard for you to follow because of how personal the writing is/was for me, so while i can understand implicitly what I am expressing it may not be so easily understood for others. If you have any ideas how I could have made something more clear or if there's anything else you don't understand I'd be happy to hear. There are a lot of roles that the inner child and parent take within, some are indeed dysfunctional (not saying yours is) and cause internal conflict. I was speaking of having a more ideal and natural relationship between the two parts, where the child would indeed be free to have boundless energy due to it realizing it's parent will be there to lend a helping hand if necessary. A more free and peaceful state within that would come from the two parts being in harmony even with their many roles and expressions because respect and love are given to both. I agree that at times it's unpleasant to encounter a weakness that stems from dysfunctional but for myself personally I've been trying to remind myself that while the dysfunctional behavior is now hurting me more than it's helping, it used to be that that very same behavior was used to protect myself from greater harm and perhaps even death internally or externally. So while it's unhelpful now, it deserves respect for being so helpful in the time when I needed it and I think by giving this part the respect earned you created a foundation necessary to negotiate with the part to change it's role and along with it's role it's dysfunctional behavior. So at first unpleasant to encounter turns into a wonderful and exciting life changing opportunity to understand oneself and work within to create a happier and peaceful inner life. I'm glad you felt happy while finishing. I was sad when you said you didn't understand what I had written because it was so powerful for me and I like to be understood, but even the sadness I can learn from and instead of attacking myself for not expressing myself in a way that can be understood I can use that as information about myself to learn about why this would make me sad and how it's okay and not necessary for any kind of attack. It's also an opportunity to receive feedback in order to express myself more coherently lol. So again thank you for being honest with your experience of what I had written, it's appreciated. It was definitely rewarding for me, as I made a big step towards learning how to support myself when others either cannot or will not.

I've recently been considering writing something about the parent child relationship and how its internalized, and I probably still will at some point. I'm bringing it up now because I just had a very emotionally and mentally challenging day while resolving some conflicts within the family and its related to the parent child relationship. The conflicts lead me to writing something to help me get back to a place of calm because I was very distressed during this time. I'll probably expand more on it later when I'm not as drained as I am right now, but I wanted to share the short bit that I just finished writing. Just to be clear this is very much emotional writing, not an intellectual argument being made. What I wrote: Where there is a child, there is a parent. Where there is a girl, there is a hero. They are inseparable just as weakness and strength is found within one another. The relationship with always exist, for one cannot be born without parent and one cannot exist having not ever been a child. The child and the parent. The girl and the hero. Weakness and strength. Need and resource. There is no shame in one or the other as both exist to serve one's survival. To fight one is to fight yourself. To hate one is to hate what keeps you alive. Weakness is not a passing stage in one's life but rather a companion that should never be forgotten. It is irreplaceable as one's own child and just as precious. It is a messenger that brings word of need. It gives council as to where one's focus should be and what yet must be learned. To who does it give it's message and council? It is to the parent, to the hero. It summons for the strength and resources carried within. If you accept and respect both parts of this relationship the message will be received and the summons will be heard. Where once you stumbled blindly, you will now be guided by wisdom. While before you fell, beaten by the cruelty of others you now rise, deflecting and shielded from those who would do you harm. When you are surrounded by those who are unable or unwilling to hear, you will always find a sensitive listener within. The girl needs her hero just as the hero needs the girl. Unity is the reward for those who love both.

I think it would be disgusting to have sex with your unconscious spouse who's unable to say yes or no and I agree that it would be an indicator of bigger issues. I would be very angry and feel violated as well. I was just hesitant to call that action rape, but perhaps I'm wrong. I certainly don't agree with that action and wouldn't want to be with someone who did that.. In the case where the spouse is sick or upset then they still have the capability to say no and I think that should be respected.

Most people who get married are not consciously consenting to having sex whenever their partner wants it and agreeing that it's okay for either the man or woman to use physical force to achieve it. Because that is not clear and therefore isn't consciously consented to then it would be rape to physically force yourself on your partner because there's no consent. This should be clear and discussed before getting married but usually isn't. I don't believe it's right to ever initiate physical force against someone who is clearly telling you it's unwanted. Whether this be using physical force to get a man's money or physical force to get sex from a woman. Do they have obligation in marriage to give sex and financial support? Yes, but no one should physically force them to uphold their obligation when both people involved are adults able to give consent or not. For this situation to even happen you have to have a bad marriage where likely both man and women are disrespectful towards each other, trust has been broken, and a serious lack of empathy shown to each other. Forcing someone do to something they don't want to do only creates obedience or rebellion which leads to resentment or hate. But if you're at the point where you'll physically force sex from your spouse when they don't want it, I can only assume you've lost all respect for them and don't care if they resent or hate you. From what I understand Vox says that the man has no right to be violent with the women when he's trying to have sex that she doesn't want. So he has no right to grab, push, and then penetrate her but he does believe it's within his right if she's unconscious or intoxicated. So it's not okay to force her to have sex if she's able to defend herself because that would mean having to use violence but it is okay to force her to have sex if she's unconscious/unable to defend herself. That sounds very strange to me but in the situation where she's unconscious or intoxicated, unless she's said no then I don't think one can consider that rape or her not consenting, because she's married and consenting until she says no.

My results were INFJ-T,"The Advocate". Role: Diplomat Strategy: Constant Improvement 89% Introverted 60% Intuitive 59% Feeling 75% Judging 60% Turbulent

Thank you, I appreciate the feedback and the sympathy. It's encouraging.

What does normal feel like for you? You said that your mind starts to feel like a prison cell. What does this mean to you? Can you elaborate? Does it mean that you have times where you have something you'd like to share or say something but can't bring yourself to say it? Like you're trapped in your own mind unable to speak to or affect the outside world? If so, it sounds like your mind mind is on a kind of lock down. No one in and no one out, even if you want connection with others there's probably a part of you that doesn't believe this possible and think you'll only be inviting in more tormentors. Of course there's already tormentors in your mind but at least you're familiar with them and have already proven effective defenses against them, and by effective I mean they've kept you from dying. Inviting possible new ones in runs the risk of destruction, especially if you're in a vulnerable state or a weakened state due to internal conflict/self attack. Your safety is very important and feeling safe is very important. I think how connected you are to others depends on how safe you feel with them or in other words how much you trust them. I think it's critical to find people (or a therapist) who value your safety and work to create a safe (empathetic) environment that reduces fear and encourages you to open up and say the things that you've wanted to say but have been forced to keep inside while growing up. Receiving positive feedback from these people or your therapist for opening up and being honest should help in recognizing that rejection is not the only response you will ever receive. They should also be able to help you point out any irrational beliefs you hold and be willing to explore why you hold them and why it's no longer necessary to hold them. Having that support and that space will help you value yourself. When you value yourself you in a way create a non self attacking defense against people who want you to self attack and devalue yourself for their own gain. As a child you would have to remain with those you reject you, as an adult this is no longer the case and you can choose whether or not you want to expose yourself to people who have been proven to reject you for irrational reasons. I'm not an expert, so my thoughts and what I've said are based on my experiences or the experiences of others I've witnessed or talked with, and articles I've read. Thank you for opening up and posting. I appreciate the courage it takes and how difficult it can sometimes be. I'm sorry that you've experienced so much isolation in your life. I'm sure that it's been incredibly painful and hard to face. Take care, I hope you treat yourself well and learn new ways in which you can treat yourself even better.

I can't know for sure, but It's more likely you're trying to get your parents interested in you not necessarily deeper topics. Deeper topics seem to be very important to you, so their choice to ignore that or not care basically translates into them not caring for you. That's not something easy for a person to accept and perhaps that's why you try so hard to get them to understand. Your experience sounds incredibly painful and frustrating. I don't know if your parents are the one who are saying "we can't all be clever" but if they are or say anything that's similar to that then your reactions are not disproportionate. They're pushing you away/isolating you, like you're just too clever or too different for them to understand or connect with. Rather than admit they don't want to or care enough to put in the effort to connect or overcome their own internal obstacles keeping that connection from happening, they excuse themselves by just saying that it's impossible and that you're the one being irrational for trying the impossible. If this is in any way accurate then I'm sorry that that's been your experience.

Okay, I think I understand. To clarify this was a brief summation of my experience with isolation throughout my years. I'm no longer around these people and what I've written as far as my mental states or beliefs are most if not all in the past. I have lingering pain while working through and understanding the fear I have in areas like improving social skills without feeding a sense of inferiority or being submissive to abuse. This is honestly one of the reasons why it's difficult for me to share or express negative emotions or talk to some people about my past while being emotionally connected. By this I mean the assumptions that by having these feelings or exploring them is somehow an indicator that I'm not "focused on self-improvement" nothing in what I said communicates this, this is an assumption which I gather from what you said, is based on your own experience and not mine. So please don't make assumptions like this and make implications that I'm not putting in effort or that I'm satisfied to remain limited or small. If something isn't clear to you then please ask. Reflecting on the above paragraph I want to be clear that this is an insecurity of mine (people assuming I don't put in effort). I'm responsible for what I share and with who. Posting on a public forum means opening myself up to anyone, including people who will think I'm not putting in effort. I do not want to attempt to make you responsible for my insecurities and expect you to tip toe around me. I'm thankful that you're being honest and will use the experience to become stronger. I am still pushing back on you making assumptions and would still like you to ask if something isn't clear. It's more exhausting and not an enjoyable conversation for me to defend myself against assumptions rather than just answer a question someone might have.

Using a pen is more calming and relaxing for me. I usually use it when I'm writing in a less controlled/focused way. I use digital to bring my thoughts into something more coherent, sometimes bringing in what I've written in pen to capture the my emotions or thoughts more fully. It's nice to be able to type quick sentences down and follow trails of thought, it helps me keep track and I can copy and paste and weave them together at a later point. So my preference depends on my mood and what my goal is in the moment. Yes, I agree with what you said about trust. I questioned my judgment and had a difficult time trusting myself after some relationships that I've had. It's taken a lot of work to understand what happened in those relationships and learn how to foster trust and security within myself. No one should ever try to make someone feel guilty for having emotions. They're uncontrollable, unlike actions. I'm sorry to hear you were treated that way. Yeah, I'm happy that I think differently and agree with your statement, a lot of what I've written was what I believed in the past due to how I was treated. Thank you for the compliments and feedback on my writing, that's very kind and warming to hear. I've never enjoyed being in those types of places either and it was rare for me to ever go. It was not something I valued and neither was the company and I don't regret my decision to avoid that. I've never wanted to commit suicide. I've contemplated the idea but it's not something I ever wanted to do. Thank you for your encouragement, that's always a nice thing to have from others. I indeed intend to continue to push through and I've already gained many rewards. I doubt I'll ever give up, especially having come so far already. I'm confused about what you mean when you say that people around me expect little and that I'm not in a great position. I'm in the best position I've ever been in and I don't consider it a bad one.

"I believe that to a considerable degree mental illness can be forms of self-sabotage. In particular depression. Being depressed is a choice that people resign themselves to and is an easy excuse to why you sabotage your social life and career. Responsibility deferment." That's bold to claim that depression is a choice. I don't believe depression is a choice because it's a feeling, or a collection of feelings. You don't have direct control over your feelings. If he's depressed then he's depressed for a reason. This is not to say he's doomed to a life of depression. Feelings can be a message telling you that something is wrong, at the very least it urges you to find the source of whatever you are feeling. I don't think you get out of depression by telling yourself that it's a choice, but rather by understanding why you feel the way you do and changing things in your life accordingly (assuming the causes are in your control). It's a more indirect control over changing a feeling, while gaining self knowledge in the process. You do however have control over self-attacking and making irrational judgments of yourself when you feel bad, it's difficult but if you recognize it as such, then you have control over it, but not over your feelings which you should allow yourself to feel freely. "When I was about 10-11 I started at a school and within a few days I was very down because I had not made any friends. So I began to fantasise being bullied. Responsibility deferment (putting effort into making friends) and attention seeking." Your parents were responsible for teaching you social skills. "Yet it may be easier to defer responsibility for your current situation for the rest of your life on your mother. What she did was terrible, but there is no reason you should have to suffer the rest of your life because of the pain she transferred from herself onto you." I think it's insensitive and not helpful to say that it's easier for him to defer responsibility. It's not about what is easier or harder, unless by easier you mean safer. In his mind it may very well be safer to stay with what is familiar, even if the familiar is abuse. Its not that it's just "harder" it's fear of receiving punishment or fear of death. You don't help someone overcome fear by telling them they're taking the easy way out by abusing themselves or staying in an abusive situation. It may in some cases work short-term but long-term I think it's damaging to yourself because you're trying to force yourself past a fear instead of understanding, respecting, and working through it. The way out starts with being adamant that you want to get out, that you no longer want to impose this false self on yourself. You seem like an intelligent guy. There is plenty that you could likely do if you put your mind to it. He didn't impose this on himself, it was inflicted on him and now he has to work through it (or not, his choice). I think he's already done something towards getting out just by posting what he did.

Thank you for sharing such a beautiful poem. It was very powerful. I'm going to save it and read it again for when I am in need of inspiration or a reminder.