SoCaliGirl

There are hundreds of trans men "legitimately" competing in male sports... "The average female college basketball player has a vertical leap of approximately 19 inches, compared with more than 28 inches for the average male player. Hormones will not change this." Assuming this is accurate, what do you think is responsible for the difference? Also, do you not believe there is any difference at all between the words "sex" and "gender"? I can understand why you might think that; for myself, having met hundreds of trans men and women, I know there are thousands of trans men all across the country that are 100% "passable" (it's very very easy for trans men to 'pass') engaged in body building and all sorts of 'manly' sports. Trans men tend to gravitate toward body building and hardcore 'male' oriented sports as a way to build up their bodies and engage in affirming activity.

Not sure anyone would contest voluntary association angle, the focus of the 'opinions' around this topic has unfortunately been clueless people making uninformed and relatively hateful comments against trans athletes when they see a headline. (not in this thread, but in mainstream news articles & comments) Depends, it is my understanding that most trans women stop taking 'blockers' after 2 years when their body gives up trying to make testosterone and only need to take estrogen from there on out so that their body has normal female hormone levels. I assume a similar story is the case for transgender men but in reverse.

I have seen a bit of this, I mostly hear about it from other people who show it to me via their Facebook feeds; I have unfriended or unfollowed most of the unstable acquaintances as of late.

When I started questioning if I was trans or not I got myself into therapy and had my hormone levels checked, all normal unfortunately, would have been an easier fix than transition lol >< From what little I know on the topic of endocrinology as it relates to your age and circumstance; you do seem quite young, have you had your vitamin D & b12 levels checked? What is your daily diet/exercise details?

This seems a bit fallacious in that it seems to seek to ignore the nuance and scientific analysis that is the topic of the thread lol...

The vast majority of trans men and women 'go stealth' post transition and blend right back into society... No one would ever know if someone were trans most of the time... Seems like there is likely a lot of very minute positive and negative advantages and disadvantages on both sides; do you think that trans women have more advantages than disadvantages? How about in comparison to trans men?

Do you think it's possible that the majority trans men and women competing in sports don't "destroy the competition" and therefore don't make headlines? I agree with this.

What were your thoughts about the portion of the article that specifically addresses your concern? When did I do that? You seem to have felt it was important enough to read and then post a snarky comment that contributed nothing of value to the thread...

I don't have any issue with trans individuals competing in segregated sports on either side as long as they are undergoing HRT. Interesting info: After transgender women have undergone the medically accepted two years of hormonal replacement therapy; it is actually more difficult for transgender women to attain and maintain the same muscle mass and testosterone levels as the average non-trans woman; leaving them at a slight disadvantage in terms of female only sporting competitions etc. https://www.salon.com/2013/06/30/debunking_unfair_advantage_myths_about_trans_athletes_partner/ http://www.outsports.com/2013/6/26/4467346/trans-athletes-fallon-fox-fairness http://www.huffingtonpost.com/brynn-tannehill/do-transgender-athletes-have-an-unfair-advantage_b_4918835.html http://www.outsports.com/2011/9/12/4051806/moment-22-international-olympic-committee-allows-transgender-athletes

It is quite irritating how a photo of my cat will get 50 "likes" but a well thought out, well articulated argument about a political issue will get completed ignored with zero comments or likes.

I have been watching this show was mild interest. It has a lot of mildly interesting content but just now found myself awestruck with the power of a particular scene in episode six. Morgan Freeman sits down to discuss 'miracles' and speaks to a psychology professor who does an amazing job of explaining why assuming that a 'rare' event is not necessarily a 'miracle'. Link https://youtu.be/fD02JNGB73M?t=18m33s

I find myself self-censoring more and more on Facebook these days... The NSA/big brother BS seems like it's going to escalate until the server farms collapse and open up a black hole. I am moving into more professional circles where I am concerned about jeopardizing professional relationships with politics/philosophy. I have been feeling more and more like it's Facebook is an unproductive medium for changing hearts/minds. Thoughts?

Wow... I am only half an hour in and it's pretty damn convincing... Not exactly hard to believe either considering what I already know and believe about the federal government.

Agreed, I see this all the time.

Correct; it's not just 'not wanting to explain' when you walk in, it's also about safety... Can you imagine a trans woman such as the one pictured above using a mens room in a 'not so great' part of town on a road trip? Regardless of an individuals' perspective/knowledge/lack of knowledge about the trans experience I have a hard time taking anyone seriously that thinks that either of the two trans individuals should be forced to use the restroom that they CLEARLY no longer resemble.

I have heard Stef state this in a few different podcasts/videos and thought it sounded hard to believe. It appears to be a bit more complicated than that; fascinating read @ the forum link below: http://www.scienceforums.net/topic/56869-every-atom-in-you-is-replaced-after-7-years/ http://askanaturalist.com/do-we-replace-our-cells-every-7-or-10-years/

lol... ok... this is good...

Can you elaborate on "Showing trans men would make the fact that men also feel discrimination WAY too evident" ?

FYI: "Transgender men" are f2m, individuals who transitioned from female to male... They look like this: & would likely not be interested in using a women's restroom... I believe the term you were looking for is "transgender women"... they look this: & use the women's restroom. I think it's a similar situation; I am a trans woman who has open carried a 1911 .45. Both categories of scared people are scared irrationally due to ignorance of the topics involved and often emotion based prejudices. Agreed. Transgender is an adjective, not a noun. Agreed. Agreed.

Profoundly true... “Briefly stated, the Gell-Mann Amnesia effect is as follows. You open the newspaper to an article on some subject you know well. In Murray's case, physics. In mine, show business. You read the article and see the journalist has absolutely no understanding of either the facts or the issues. Often, the article is so wrong it actually presents the story backward—reversing cause and effect. I call these the "wet streets cause rain" stories. Paper's full of them. In any case, you read with exasperation or amusement the multiple errors in a story, and then turn the page to national or international affairs, and read as if the rest of the newspaper was somehow more accurate about Palestine than the baloney you just read. You turn the page, and forget what you know.” ― Michael Crichton

I didn't say anything about "mattering" if he is spoken about. Simply asked what made you think he is trans. A lot of people assume (often incorrectly) about whether or not someone is trans; that's why I asked. =) As for your question/statement "Isn't normativity the whole point of being trans?" I am quite sure most trans individuals would disagree with this statement. It is my understanding that most trans individuals do not feel like they 'chose' to experience dysphoria or 'be trans'. Some trans individuals don't mind being very open about it, many/most prefer to keep it to themselves with perhaps only closed loved ones being aware. This seems to correlate with personality, pass-ability, stage of transition (assuming they transition) etc.

Transwoman is m2f Transman is f2m ie: The images above are transmen.

I can't say I am super upset by this; private stalls are private stalls. I am not sure why anyone pretends like they would be able to 'check' or 'enforce' any sort of gender segregation in bathrooms anyway... What makes you so sure he is a trans man? Yeah... the problem I see with your argument is that it is the trans women who get harassed significantly more than trans men. Trans women seem to trigger some sort of insecurity in many men.

Agreed. In response to bathrooms, I would simply say that private stalls are private stalls. Non issue imo It's the conservatives that are running around trying to pass laws in order to play bathroom police. Texting :P Agreed.

Why are trans men never discussed? My thoughts: I have met well over 200 trans men & women in the city where I live over the last few years and in my experience the population of trans men and trans women is split quite evenly with maybe a slight majority being trans men. This surprised me. I had only heard about trans women in the media. When I have discussed this with trans men and women, the consensus seems to be that trans men definitely "have it easier" in terms of going through the initial couple of years of 'transition' both in terms of medical HRT as well as significantly less societal disapproval/harassment/ostracizing Trans men have the following HRT advantages: 1. HRT Alters their voice to within the average male range with no effort required. 2. HRT Gives them facial and body hair within the average male range with no effort required. Trans men have the following societal advantages during transition: 1. During 'transition' they can wear clothing that decades ago was very segregated to men only: pants, baggier shirts, suits etc etc 2. During 'transition' they are often assumed to be 'butch' possibly lesbian women. It definitely seems like trans women are demonized far more often in the so called bathroom debate. Billboards proclaiming the dangers of "letting men in dresses" into the bathrooms with your daughters! etc Yet these people don't seem to realize that if their nanny state, impossible to enforce, sex segregated bathroom law were to be passed and followed, they would actually be forcing trans men like this into the "female restrooms" with their daughters. It's interesting and I think says a lot about how our society views gender expression (or perhaps stereotypical gender expression). I am very interested in what some high IQ FDR listeners think about why trans men are ignored and what that says about our society. =)