DavidFoxfire

I hear you here. Things were just about to quiet down in Syria. Isis is being pushed back, peace talks were in the works, Russia was about to complete their business there and return home. Things were actually going to get better for everyone involved there. And then some BEEPhole goes "Well, this just won't do at all the little fruitcups! Let's break out the biological weapons! I need this war to continue, as it should!" Here's where I go into Alex Jones wearing a Tinfoil Hat territory, people. I don't think Assad's the one that's doing it. I doubt that he's this fricking stupid! I think there's some other party that's doing all this gassing. Someone who actually wants this war to continue, or even escalate, because of reasons. Maybe geopolitical, maybe economical because he's the one selling all the weapons. There's someone in there we're not looking at who fricking wants this war, and he's getting his jollies off with all the crap he's kicking. I paraphrase The Peacemaker: I'm not afraid of a country who has weapons of mass destruction. I'm terrified of the one man who wants them.

I know I'm going to be chewed at, but I have to say it. At first, I thought "Oh great, not another one," but then I heard, "YouTube Headquarters," and then later on that, "the shooter had her videos demonized." The Schadenfreude is strong in this one.

I'm not shooting any videos yet, but I do have a platform myself. However, my platform is for designing a Campaign Setting for Table Top Role Playing Games. It's in a periodical form that I publish over at DriveThruRPG. (Pay what you want, so you can get it for free.) I don't know if links are allowed here, otherwise, I'd give the link out to the issues I have thus far. The periodical is of me putting up ideas that I'm brainstorming for like-minded kindred souls (usually in the D&D creative community) to kick around. The most recent issue that I'm writing now, however, will have some philosophy content that got started elsewhere in this forum. I've been an avid follower of Stefan and Jordon (Peterson) and their reasoning has bled over into my own work. (I'm curious, has Stefan ever wondered if The Argument could be used in a Creative environment?)

Too bad we didn't see the caller in these videos. We would've gotten a proper Soylent Grin.

Please forgive the necro-post, but I found some brainstorms to extend this topic some more. I'm writing in my brainstorming notebook all about this code we discussed earlier on. Both the code itself and how to encourage the party to keep in it. Right now, I have the need to brainstorm the details of this Adventuring Code, the list of rules for the party to run by that keeps them in the hero's side (and out of Murder Hobo territory). I already have some ideas, although they aren't in any necessary order, and I'm also open to suggestions. 1) Whenever two adventuring parties have a conflict in the field, they must settle their differences through a non-violent means of their choice. This can include a game of skill or chance. This will not only involve a mini-game to add more flavor, which can be of any game, as long as it's short, can be played quick, and can take place in either a camp or a setting. This can involve a card game (A Magic: The Gathering Cube format anyone?) or a variant of chess, checkers, Yahtzee, or any other game that the player character could have. There can also be game rooms in the taverns where such games are played, both casually and for more serious purposes such as settling a quarrel. Of course, that doesn't mean that The Argument(™) cannot be used in the game. Have a practical change to practice critical thinking. 2) Use Minimum Necessary Force, only do just enough violence to resolve any conflict and no farther. I got this from "Twelve Rules of Life" while looking under Rule 6 (in the child-rearing section) but there's a more visual rendition of this rule in Rule 1, with the lobsters. The Lobsters go through several stages of conflict resolution before they go ripping off limbs. The same should be used for weapons and spells. Oh yeah, that reminds me. 3) All weapons and spells must be used with the utmost respect.

On Eladrin being Russians or Germans? Well, if I don’t give a direct semblance of a real-world culture, maybe I can get away with it. I hope I can modify a Tolkien-esque culture into something closer to what we’re talking about and be more believable. On how (de-)evolution can be…accelerated. At my current background, I have a mere 300 years pass by between the fall of the Lost Age (I marked the zero point at November 3, 2016. When the Cubs won the World Series. And the world was never sane since. In fact, I numbered the years after the collapse with W. R., as in “Wrigley Reckoning.” For the record, I’m hardcore Cardinals Nation.) and the start of the campaign setting. I chose this very short length of time—little more than how long America existed—for shock value: I wanted to show how far and how quickly Civilization would crumble if we allow ourselves to, as Stefan would say, give up using “The Argument.” From what we have in the here and now, back to Middle Ages territories, with no memories of what they have lost, in little more than three centuries. To fall so goddamned far, so goddamned quickly. That would shock just about everyone here, and I want to keep that. But this raises a problem that I needed to address when I was building the timeline. Three Centuries is too short for a world to naturally regress to a Medieval setting, and too short to turn a human into an orc using the Evolutionary process. No argument with me there. Something needed to be added to accelerate the change, and I thought about an answer that solved another problem: “How can I set up something like the Forgotten Realms’ Weave of Magic into the Real World, so that you can get spells to work?” My answer—and your mileage is allowed to differ on this—became part of the name of the campaign setting: Aether. Here’s where I make a hard-left-hand turn into phlebotinum-like territories of logic and reasoning. When the Material Plane—Earth—gets connected to the Fey World—the twinned Feywild in the campaign setting, the already-existing magical energies from the Fey World flowed into the Material Plane. This magical Energy is called Aether, and it powers the fey’s and later on everyone else’s arcane spells. The existence of this Fey Aether was able to kick start Earth’s own Aether (here’s where we go into psudo-science here, but at least I made some effort in explaining.) so that this world would have its own Weave. Right now, I have the generation of this new Weave accelerate the evolution of much of the flora and fauna in the world. This is an explanation why there are Anthro Races in the world (Yes, folks, you can play a fox person in Aethercoil,) but it can also explain the de-evolution into Orcs. Some Humans flee the Eladrin ‘invasion’ and head into the woods, or mountains, or caves, or some other remote location. They become more barbaric and cavemen due to their environment and they begin to adapt physically and psychology. When the Aether kicks in and accelerates this process, it turned these already-brutish people into the Orcs you know. Of course, that’s my original explanation, I’d never know if it flies unless I talk about it, right? The recommendation of the 100-year space between “Fall of Modern Day” and “Arrival of Eladrin” Having a century, at the minimum, between the two events, is doable and a lot more believable than what I just typed above. Especially when you put into account the secondary fall which would be the Universal State (Known in-campaign world as “The True Order.”) Originally, I have the Eladrin arrive and take on the Universal State. However, having the Universal State collapse under its own weight and split into warlords and warring states is more believable and expected. It will also allow non-Eladrin communities where some humans banded together into a tribe to rebuild the best they could, as well as the above orcs. Besides, an alien race of beings one-rounding a global government seems a bit too far-fetched, no? (I was thinking it was too out there even as I was writing it, but I haven’t had an alternative until we have this thread. Another reason why I believe joining here is a good thing. Sidebar: Why am I imagining Stefan going “Using ‘The Argument’ for Fiction Writing? What the fuck?” over this?) Because of this, I’m going to adjust the timeline to include this 100-year period. I might need to add a century to the timeline, but it’s doable. About the kids who go into the Eladrin Gardens The kids who go into PTSD-influenced fight responses will no doubt end up with the adults who flee the Eladrin, some into these warring states or even ultimately becoming orcs. The ones who are more explorative and curious, some of the traits that Eladrin would call “The Light,” that is, the capacity to hope, think, reason, create…stuff that Stefan would encourage. A child who still has “The Light” would actually approach an Eladrin and try to be friendly. Especially after realizing that they’re not out to kill them. These are the ones, of all ages including Adults, whom the Eladrin would take in. Moving the Eladrin City from France to London This is when I’m grateful I’m having this discussion now rather than after I have the campaign setting and a couple fiction novels published. It’s much easier to move Eladrin Civilizations around now. I know of some geographic locations that are remote enough to place a fey-based Garden. Two of them immediately come to mind: England, which I renamed “The Island Kingdoms” and Crimera, between Ukraine and Russia. You might have some other ideas, but I think the best place would be for them to take London for themselves, with Buckingham Palace replacing the Cathedral of Notre Dame as their Ghaele Court. To be honest, I only chose Paris because it’s a central location, in the middle of the continent. If I still have a soft spot for Paris, I can always use it for another purpose. This will definitely go into the next issue of my brainstorming periodical, Æthercoil Magazine. Issue 6 is way overdue. About Split; Novgorod; and Odesa Now that we’ve assumed that there would be humans who split out from the fallen dystopia to rebuild their societies the best they could, it would come to reason that designing some of these warring states is in order. For now, I’ll start with the three societies you mentioned, and develop these three kingdoms from there. (At this point, even the names of these kingdoms are up to debate.) I’ll start with Novgorod near the Baltic Sea (Norway, Sweden, Finland, Estonia, Lativa, Lithuania, and as a group of city-states with Boyar citizens electing Dukes that form a council. An Archduke will serve for the Civil and Martial Authority, and have his powers and responsibilities run by a charter. In all other traits, they’re a feudal republic. Right now, I have Italy be already occupied by another faction, “The Council of the Eight.” These are run by Bahamut (The platinum dragon of RPG fame) overseeing Eight Elder Dragons, one for each of the eight main Divine Domains as listed in 5th Edition’s Rulebooks. At now, they have settled into Rome, when they’re not in their prospective lairs, to combine their efforts for their own common ends. While the Eladrin are concerned with the people in this realm, the Dragons are more interested in the realm itself. Some of these dragons also take the place of various RPG deities—some of them even combine several deities from other campaign settings—to grant divine powers for Clerics and Paladins. While the Eladrin would be a patron for a Cleric, more often then not, whoever a cleric prays to would no doubt be a traditional RPG deity incarnation as a dragon. So, for now Italy is out, I need to move Split, the more curious and entrepreneurial kingdom, I’m thinking that they would be in the countries east of Italy, France, Spain, and Portugal. These lands are already well influenced by churches, or at least traditionally so, so it could come to no surprise that the survivors would find these abandoned churches and cathedrals, re-inhabit them, and use them to rebuild their society. Odesa would take up most of what was once the Soviet Bloc, with the references to historical Russia (such as your mention of the Cossacks,) but with the main difference being a belief in human rights along with their militaristic organization. With this, I can see parts of the Europan Coast gel a bit more: The Island Kingdoms are directly controlled by the Eladrin, and it’s clear that this is all the land they needed. In the Norselands (around the Baltic Sea) is what Novgorod will become, France and Spain will become what Split will turn into, and Eastern Europe will be Odesa. Italy will be the Dragon Meeting place for the Council of the Eight. With this ballpark division, I can work on some maps for that upcoming Æthercoil Magazine #6 About your game idea and your campaign ideas If you don’t mind, I’d like to shelve these interesting ideas for a later time. They’re very interesting, of course, and I’ll get back to it, but for now, the need to develop these Eurpoan Kingdoms take precedence in my mind.

I don't have to play this video to hear that "...yet." This will only end in tears. I just know it.

Reading along your suggestions, having the Eladrin being Jesuit-like missionaries, more interested in education and culture-sharing than conquest, I do feel that this would be a better way to go. The main difference between the Jesuits and the Eladrin would be where that testosterone is expressed. Fey races, especially the Archfey types, are by nature pretty androgynous. Some of them could even switch genders at will. While I would never see one of them built like Arnold Schwarzenegger physically, I can nevertheless have them take on Masculine roles, at least in spirit if not in body. Also, they have been watching human behavior for eons, so they can also play the role if need be. Read: They might not be overly muscular with square jaws, but they’d still have experienced eyes, stands up straight with their shoulders broad, and would rather wish to be shot then ever have one of those Soylent Grins on their faces. If you see them smile, they’ll use their eyes as well as their mouths. To paraphrase Mr. Spock, Eladrin would show, “Masculinity, but not as we know it.” While they would never look like human males, they would be more interested in educating, mentoring, medicine, and what not. At the original storyline, I have the majority of the survivors of the fallen dystropia be orphans; a common theme of a dystopia is the abolition of parents a la Brave New World. A good number of them would be able to survive on their own with little training (Maybe a single Eladrin would accompany a group as they look for a place to live) and the hope that they won’t end up like Lord of the Flies, but a good number of them would have to be taken in by the Eladrin. (Who would fear that the Human species would go extinct Lord of the Flies style, with the children forming tribes and attacking each other like real savages. (In fact, having humans flee into the wilderness and turning savage is how they become Orcs. I even have them undergo a physical transformation.) The older humans would no doubt flee when the Eladrin come and defeat the dystropic government. (And do it with abject ease. The Government focused so much on subjugating human beings that they had zero resistance against an evolved lifeform.) It would be the younger children, who haven’t had the capacity for trust beaten out of them, who would approach the Eladrin. If there’s going to be just one small enlightened country in the setting, it would be created with these Eladrin and their orphan wards. And I’ve seen Final Fantasy VIII and know about Balamb Garden. It’s a good guess that the Eladrin would construct their own Garden in the remnants of Paris to tend to and later educate the humans. The only reason why I chose Paris is because that the imagery of Paris, especially its history, would appeal to Eladrin the best, knowing their preference for elegance and beauty. However, there are two locations in Germany that you might be interested in; I’ll be writing fiction stories set in these locations. One is in Western Germany, around the small village of Karlsbruun. This would be a settlement created by villagers who escaped fled the collapse of the dystropia and found a place to rebuild and are not directly influenced by the Eladrin (although there would be a mission there.) One of the inhabitants is a dragonjin (a half-human half-dragon) named Eisenhower who is more known as an author than a dragon watching over the village in his castle lair overlooking the village from a nearby mountain. The other is in the Black Forest area in Eastern Germany, where a witch’s coven lives there. Run by a circle of witches who assumed the identities and personas of Grimm’s Fairy Tale characters, they protect the forest from intruders as well as take in their own orphan children and raising them in the craft. The story set in this Black Forest region will focus on a girl who was taken in and raised as one of their own. I think you might be interested in one of these two scenarios if not both.

That would be one way to go. I was thinking that some NPCs would have heard or witnessed a preferred behavior or a peaceful solution and responds to the party more amiably than how they'd react to a Murder Hobo. A reputation system can be easily implemented in any Table Top RPG; you just need to keep copious notes. I already have such an item that I offer to low-level characters: A Renaissance version of Red Bull. Drink it during a Short Rest to gain the Benefits of a long rest. (Full Hit Points and Spell Points, Features that recharge each day get recharged, and all that) However, the drinker must make a Constitution save or take one level of Exhaustion which gives a disadvantage. Almost vital at the start, although there is the drawback to contend with, so it's up to the party to try to stretch those 15-minute work days where every resource gets used in one encounter. That's what I usually do. Have a small jump-on adventure or a simple encounter known as "The Tarantino" that the party finds themselves in to ensure their character build's work. ("And now, for the most famous words in all of Role Playing Games: Gentlemen (or Players), Roll for Initiative!") I find out more about what the character's personal goals and tastes are, and will adjust the real campaign appropriately. Oh, and Jordon Peterson? (Or as I call him, "Professor Kermit." It's his voice. Imagine the Frog going off at an SJW during some of those Free Speech Rallies or going, "Don't you tell me what to say, you....." .....Okay, I bite, what would Kermit use as an insult?) Looks like I'm going to have to get Jordon's "Twelve Rules for Life" to go with Stephan's "The Art of the Argument" My just-downloaded Kindle app awaits.

I remember that water park all too fondly. Too bad what happened to it. I guess it's what you get when you build a park inside a lake. Yeah, I know…although sometimes we don’t have to, case in point: I think I’ve gotten to a point where I figure out that an idea I had in my mind just won’t fly and must be taken out, a necessity I doubt I’ll get to until after I post about it in a forum like this one. And that’s the part about the Eladrin using Mind Control to educate the survivors. Too much like North Korea, as you said, and you’re right looking back on it. So out it goes. Good thing I didn’t put that part into the Quick Rules. However, having the Eladrin be estrogen-filled superbeings struggling with hubris is not lost. I’d also would have them be aware of such god-complexes, in some level, as they settle on Earth. (I only picked Paris because my first geographical location is in Eurpoe; I’ll get to the Americas soon enough.) Some might have something like a particular hang-up like what Superman voiced in Justice League: the “I live in a world made of cardboard!” line. Some of them would even be aware of it while they’re on the earth and they’d go, “Well, I never thought of it that way.” In the end, the Eladrin leans something as they make their rescue. So instead of using mind control—which is dropped at this point—the more traditional form of education and child-rearing is to be used. I’ll look for alternatives for the scenario where a bunch of children were rescued from a dystropia and were raised by, if not a whole bunch, at least some Elves. Maybe through mentorships or something else. Also, that I need to remember is something I haven’t mentioned yet. Eladrin and most High Fey fall on the Chaotic side of the Alignment Chart, usually Chaotic Good. They would see the independent streak in humans and the love for their personal freedom as something they themselves admire. (Again, another reason why I’m striking out Mind Control. I should’ve remembered that Elves value personal freedom.) Therefore, I need to rethink the Rescue Humans Scenario. There will be a time when the Eladrin will need to help the remaining humans at the start, but there’s going to need another approach. I’m open for suggestions, but I think I have some thoughts as an immediate replacement to the “North Korea” scenario. One, the Eladrin assume more normal Elven forms, turning into Moon Elves (High Elves in the Player’s Handbook) and Forest Elves (Wild Elves in the PH). Still Fey, but more natural looking and approachable. They would approach the survivors and ask if they could help. Some humans might shy away, of course, but others, especially children, would be looking for someone to be the adult in the room. And even in this second attempt, compared to even the most Mature Human, an Elf is still an Adult in the room. (Again, it’s their godlike nature.) Some would resist, but they’d resist like an injured animal that doesn’t know that the human reaching out to it actually wants to heal it, an image not lost on a human once he’s aware of it. Enough humans for me to keep this scenario will realize that these Alien beings are here to help, and will approach them, albeit wearily. Two, they use more traditional techniques on the children they do take in. They teach them language the way a normal Mother would toward their child: They talk and read out loud to them. Knowing that these humans need outlets for their rambunctiousness, they’d made sure that their charges have plenty of outlets—especially outlets that can release all of that savage energies without much danger—An example would be the construction of dungeons and LARP style adventure parks designed to give an adventurous human some much needed learning experience with non-lethal traps and actors playing monsters with wooden or blunt weapons. (And special amulets that can absorb spells tossed their way so they only need to ‘act’ being hit). In this stage, a form of Scouting or Apprenticeship comes into play where skills needed to survive in the wild are taught. (How to hunt, how to grow a farm, how to fend off an orc, the finer points of dungeon delving, and of course learning magic.) At this stage, some humans will show some specialized skill or talent, which the Eladrin would encourage and support, especially when it’s a skill that can help him make it on their own. (In other words, training a child up in the way he should go, so when he is grown he won’t depart from it.) Three, once the humans have begun their turnaround and are now thriving in their new world, the Eladrin would fade back, though not as far as they have before. They’ll settle into their own communities and live there, adding their own culture with the humans and hopefully make sure that the humans do not go into another world war too soon. This will be what Stephan would call “invading with shopping malls,” only in this case, you can add some LARPing Parks into the mix (see the above paragraph.) At this point, the image of them being like the Roman Empire comes into play, where the humans know that they’re of a higher class and nature from them. But the Eladrin won’t colonize or do any empire building beyond their own homesteads. If they do intervene, it’s to form a vehicle to settle the eventual tribal conflicts without the need for warfare, which everyone would know will happen. As the humans go out, they’ll eventually form communities and tribes, and as such tribes will run into each other and have disagreements. Disagreements that sometimes start wars. I think this three-point scenario is far better than the shot-down first attempt. It retains the original intention of rescuing humanity while maintaining the human’s agency and free will, which was imperative that I add. Would this be a better path to take?

To Drew Davis Paragraph 1 That’s something I haven’t thought about, although it’s part of the murder hobo drill {Open Door, Kill Fodder, get treasure, wash, rinse, repeat.} Awarding gold and/or treasure for a team’s behavior is trickier than awarding XP, however. I think I might have a vehicle to do this, however. In my campaign setting, it is possible for the Dungeon Master to have their own PC, a being known as a Dragonjin who can assume a Fairy Godmother/Father role for the party. Maybe the DM’s character appears in one form or another saying that he noticed the parties actions and offers a magic item to help them along their way, or something similar from a villager. Paragraph 2 Once I really get my campaign creating chops down, I’m definitely implementing the NAP more in my adventures. It comes with my desire to include exploration and interaction with the combat, which is already in my preferred style. Paragraph 3 A Common Law code will be formulated in the quick rules, and as I mentioned earlier, there would be a series of halls to deal with disputes and criminal cases. Either we could discuss it here or open a new thread. The Common Law Code will no doubt be created with UPB in mind. And parts of this Code will be addressing some rulings that would run counter with the principle. (Little Truth: Do not Kill. Big Truth: Respect all Sentient beings. Middle ‘Truth’: “I just killed five elves.” “No People?” “No, just elves.” “WHAT TH-- Hey! That 9th level Fireball is not an argument!” “No, but neither is your face!”) Paragraph 4 I already have several factions formulated in the campaign setting, with an option for the players themselves to create factions of their own. Herding Cats! That’s a familiar complaint. Paragraph 5 Having multiple ways to do things will be part and parcal of how I’ll design an encounter or puzzle. Some would work, some not so well, and at least one option that will produce a quite embarrassing result. (“So, you failed to pick that lock and just kicked the door out. Make a DEX save to avoid that bucket of water heading down on your head.”) Paragraph 6 The implementation of this Common Law Code will also imply that actions will have consequences. Killing that kobold with that magical banner would definitely have every kobold, or even worse the Adult Dragon who considered that kobold a beloved servant, gunning after the party. To Barn Item A Getting this philosophical convention to blend well with an RPG is why I’ve started this conversation, not to mention finding a way to do that doesn’t bog down the game play. I doubt everyone would mind if an encounter gets paused because someone has no clue who Stefan is. Writing it into a Common Law Code blended into the setting seems the way to go. Item B Of course, part of the quirks of being a Dungeon Master is to have the player’s tastes in mind with the campaign setting. A bunch of barbarians whose Modus Operandi involves “I would like to Rage” at turn 1 would need a different approach than, say, a group of young ladies with uniform outfits, colorful flairs with their spells and attacks, and a desire to ensure that the world around them don’t fall under the boot of an overlord. Also to be mentioned is what is obvious now, I need to have more incentives to follow the Code. I mentioned it in the other thread and will consider ways to implement it in the campaigns. Item C Some form of UPB is already in place in the game, you’re right about that. It is preferred for the players of the game to work as a team, after all. What I want to see is have it implemented in the campaign setting.

Thank you very much admins for clearing my posts at this time. Just a head’s up, I might need to keep calling upon your services until I get a decent reputation around here. It’ll take time. (Unless my fears are realized and the reputation I got form Encyclopedia Dramatica is still following me around wherever I go.) Item: The Combos I doubt that I’ll put the combos in the character sheet; there’s a voice in my head that’s always telling me to “Keep it Simple ****head.” Nevertheless, having such a combination table in the rules may be a good idea. I’ll keep with the first four, for now. I had toyed with using different kinds of combos for a travelling mechanic. I decided against it in favor for turning the overworld map into a series of paths that resemble a board game. Item: Alignment 5th Edition have the dual pole nine alignment system of the classic times. (Fourth Edition has a single scale that goes {Lawful Good, Good, Unaligned, Evil, Chaotic Evil} which is what I thought you meant.) The main reason why I wanted to implement UPB in my game is because I don’t rely on the traditional nine alignments or (God help me) the monstrosity that is the 4th Edition version. I say that because the positions aren’t as nuanced. We can have Lawful Good Villians and Chaotic Evil Heros. One man’s Chaotic Neutral is another man’s Neutral Good. I need something that’s more of a solid standard over who’s acting a good guy and who’s going to get the torch and pitchforks crowd. Item: The Lorax I used the Unless Monument as an image representing the final moral of the story: “Unless someone like you cares a whole lot, it’s not going to get any better, it’s not.” The Æthercoil setting has suffered not one global societal collapse, but two: One with the modern day, the second with a dystrophic world government. Most of the civilized world is left in rubble, and there are less than three million humans left on the world. (Not enough to be near extinction; I know that by now; but still a frighteningly sharp drop from the seven billion.) Most of the global culture of the modern day has not just been destroyed but erased from memory. Almost every point of civilization now resembles Pripyat post Chernobyl, everything in rubble and wilderness reclaiming it. Anyone who would approach one of these lost cities and remember what that was—could be especially sad if you use something like, a former amusement park—the thought to draw ‘Unless’ somewhere would’ve crossed their mind. Item: Using UPB in an overt sense. In the separate thread discussing how to implement UPB in a Role-Playing Game, the discussion went toward implementing a generally acceptable code of common law. I’ll develop that thought further in that thread.

That's a good question, which I've addressed for quite some time: I try to design some encounters where it is possible to resolve it without attacking. If the party can pull that off, the XP awarded is doubled. I call it the Non-Violent Resolution, an in-game implementation of the Non-Aggression Principle. However, as we all can agree on, we can't do that for every encounter. in some cases, attacking is UPB. Such as when you're in a village about to be accosted by a bunch of Orcs about to rape, pillage, and burn everything that isn't nailed down. What's the Preferrable Behavior is in that scenario? You can't go completely pacificist here, of course. But then again, it wouldn't be Preferable to repay the Orc Village they come from in kind. Wouldn't it be UPB to only be violent enough to stop the attackers and ensure that they do not repeat the action, and then stop? (Or at the very least, get the Orcs to pick on some other village?) Would the "Peace through Strength" approach be UPB in this area? Also to be mentioned is the possible Game of Thrones-style politics that an RPG sometimes go into. Where a party stumbles into some scheme from one monarch to get over on another monarch. (Like a peace treaty meeting where someone's plans to massacre everyone involved or a Wedding with someone with an ulterior motive. Or even someone going, I'll drop all charges on your party from that bar fight if you do such and such.) There's plenty of scenes where things aren't as they seen and what's good or bad is a bit fuzzy. If the players don't know what is the right thing to do in a position, would they instead go for what they think is the most Preferable? This is something like what Drew Davis talked about. The party would be expecting one thing when they're going into something like Goblins raiding a village, only to find out that it is the villagers that are in the wrong. Or a scenario I thought up earlier, where a Dragon kidnaps a princess who is actually protecting her from a nefarious group of suitors who only wishes to take over the kingdom. The right thing to do would start off one time and end up changing in mid-adventure. Another point of interest: I wanted to start off with UPB as a way to have a general consensus among the civilized groups, villages, cultures, and peoples on what is moral and proper if there is no written law governing the whole region; a form of common law-style social contract that is a bulwark keeping a tenuous civilization from breaking apart.

D&D does have Lore Skills, Donnadogsoth

I hope that people will see this while my reputation is still Neutral. This is the thread I wanted to post anyway. I want to write an essay on how to apply UPB in a Role Playing Game, and I started this thread to focus on that topic. It's my hope that I would be able to implement a mechanic that awards extra experience points when the players are more than just murder hobos in the game, as well as have them get interested in philosophy between sessions. (Much like how people got interested in Objectivism when Bioshock came out.) Of course, what is UPB in, say, Dungeons & Dragons would differ in some part to what's UPB in Real Life, which is what I'd like to figure out. I'll start with what I've written down as a quick summary of what UPB is in just a few paragraphs, which I know I'm a little off. Let me post it here to see what you think: [Start] For the uninitiated, and I'm sure that you're one of them since you got this at DriveThruRPG and have never even heard of its creator, Internet Philosopher Stefan Molyneux, allow me (with apologies to Stefan) to generalize Universally Preferable Behavior for the record: A common problem with ethics is that a global consensus of what is moral among several groups, especially between different cultures and kingdoms. All throughout real life human history, as well as in Æthercoil's realm up to the Dragons and Eladrin showing up, there was a belief that "it is impossible to define an objective, rational, secular and scientific ethical System…that morality must forever be lost in the irrational swamps of gods and governments, enforced for merely pragmatic reasons, but forever lacking logical justification and clear definition…that virtue, our greatest joy, our deepest happiness, must be cast aside by secular grown-ups, and left in the dust to be pawed at, paraded and exploited by politicians and priests – and parents…that without the tirades of parents, the bullying of gods or the guns of governments, we cannot be both rational and good. The cost to mankind has been enormous." (Molyneux 7) There are plenty of attempts to declare a set of ethics and morality that doesn't have this authoritarian source. A child can get his brain around something like "You shouldn't hurt another person," and eventually, as he grows up, can understand a broader concept of respecting each other and live so that he'll be at peace with everyone around him…only to find a bunch of adults who should've known better declare a group of people deplorably evil and they should be hunted down to a man on sight. What would circumvent the majority--if not all--of the strife, suffering, and whole rivers of blood spilling all over humanity at large is a system of ethical behavior that applies to everyone regardless of any differences. A social contract that everyone agrees on what is moral, right, and good. Two people from different religions, for example, might have differences behind what their representative holy prophet might be, and would debate it in earnest, but both of them would have a general consensus that, while they might have our differences, they both understand that it's flipping wrong to kill each other over it. That last part of the above paragraph is an example of an objective form of ethics that applies all across humanity. When Stefan made his attempt in explaining this needed 'common law,' he called it 'Universally Preferable Behavior' or UPB. He wrote a book about where he states his proof and does his work. It's been debated thoroughly since it's publishing and some even found some flaws in Stefan's logic--even with my own flimsy hold on Critical Thinking, I can understand if anybody can only get so far in a 134 page PDF. Shoot, what Player's Handbook I ever was complete and thorough in any RPG? Nevertheless, UPB is an excellent concept to consider, and my pondering over the concept gave me the idea of incorporating a form of ethics into a RPG game, to teach ethics, philosophy, and even critical thinking, to the people playing the game. Defining what UPB is in Dungeons & Dragons is a lot harder than implementing UPB from behind the DM's Screen. In fact, I've already done something like this with the "Non-Violent Resolution:" If the party encounters a hostile party or event, and the party resolves the scene without resorting to Attacking, the Experience Points awarded in this scene is doubled. Awarding additional XP for exhibiting UPB on the table makes for a prime encouragement for the party members to think outside the "Open Door-Kill Fodder-Loot Treasure-Lather-Rinse-Repeat" box and creates RPG adventures that are more than just a bunch of Murder Hobos killing things and blowing stuff up. The hard part, of course, is defining what UPB is in an RPG setting. Yeah, you say, it's wrong to Rape, Steal, Kill, and Destroy; but this is Dungeons & Dragons we're talking about. Aren't you supposed to do that? Ah, welcome to applied ethics, dear reader.

At first I was wondering, how were you able to get on this forum from prison, but then I heard school and then thought, oh yeah. I always believe that the public school system is an institution where undesirable people are systematically identified and excluded from society. Nice to know I'm not the only one.

Before I go on, I’d like to say that I appreciate the open-mindedness in this conversation. We might differ on some items, but we can still be friends. I admire that. Besides, your point of view might fill in a spot missing in my campaign setting. As for managing messages and shrinking other people’s quote boxes; this is why I use subheadings to separate different topics. This is quite useful in some posts where I go through several topics in one sitting. Oh, and if I’m missing something, that just means that my brain cells haven’t figured out a proper response yet. Give me time. Definition: Wilderness Wilderness meaning the wild untamed lands of every stripe and style chock-a-block filled with monsters, brigands, hermit wizards, caverns, monster humanoid civilizations like Orcs and Goblins, the occasional Giant or Kaiju, and the requisite ruin of a fallen Lost Age. Item: UPB being a practically applicable thing… I’ll take this into another thread in this forum, mainly because it’s important enough for me. I have a brainstorming magazine where I put all of my ideas into an easy to share format. One of the articles in the next issue of this magazine will have a quick description on UPB and how it’ll apply in an RPG setting. (Please let me know if you're seeing this. I just got a zero reputation score just as I was about to start a thread that's more in line with this forum--the one I just mentioned--and I hate to spend all this time just to find out I'm shadowbanned because someone thought I was too much of an oddball. Won't be the first time.) Item: Age and Inheritance System I don’t have an Age System yet, but I do have a Guild mechanic, where the party sets up a headquarters where money and items are stored for later, be it a later campaign or even new characters created later. I’d also allow Player Characters to have new Player Characters as an heir. Item: The Eladrin’s portrayal I see the Eladrin as a sort of angelic elf. Usually light to near translucent skin with black hair, taller than a human and slender, with a grace and poise that would have them appear to defy gravity. They’re well-rooted in the Good end of the Alignment Array (some Lawful Good for their sense of order, some Chaotic Good for their desire for freedom). Their way would be a perfect application of the line “If everyone were Angels, no Government would be necessary” and would no doubt have their own form of UPB. When the humans start setting up their own civilization, the Eladrin would realize the same thing I have when I think about the extent of Government Power: While the government that governs least governs less, there is a point where a Government is necessary to keep the social contract between other people going. To make sure that the people are kept free and peaceful and that there’s nobody around driving the kingdom to the ground, either by force, by business, or by crime. So, the Eladrin would find a way to set up local governments by giving various leaders their blessing to so do. Could be a ruling land-owner like you said, or they would set up an election and let the villagers decide who would rule them the best. Maybe they’d even find a group lead by someone whom they pick out and declare, “May this one be your King, and may these folks be Your People.” It’s still in the iffy stage, but it’s a start. Sidebar I realized the need for some form of Government when I heard about the difference between the Articles of Confederation and the Constitution. The Constitution expanded the limits given by the Articles of Confederation, but still clearly defined those limits. This was done out of necessity. That epiphany made me a staunch Constitutionalist when it comes to government topics, instead of any form of Anarchist. We don’t need a centralized government, but we do need a ref. The Eladrin in Æthercoil would find out the same, and would set up some to be that ref. Item: How Eladrin treats their Human charges. It will be apparent that Eladrin would be as evolved above Humans as Humans themselves are evolved above primates. Because of this, the Eladrin would at least have a subconscious tendency to treat their time tending to humans like a human would with an animal, especially an animal who’s species they’re trying to save. While some might voice this, most of them would keep in mind that these humans have their own minds and intelligence and have seen what they can do when given the chance. The Eladrin knows that humans have set foot on the moon, build machines that can act on their own as well, and have even created the chocolate custard filled doughnut. Humans made the Bismark and the Ham and Egg Muffin; would something like that ever come from a savage? Nevertheless, the reality still exists much what Sigfried said; that Elves are higher up on the civilization scale than Humans, and that puts the Eladrin in the same position that Europeans are when they’re in the New World or Africa with the Natives. There are two main differences in this scenario: The Eladrin might want to live in the realm, they don’t have a coloristic frame of mind: They don’t want conquest, just a place to live with the world. They also, through their own human history, have knowledge of what happened with Native population when someone from another country showed up and can learn from the fails of Human History. While there would be some Eladrin that would consider their humans as either pets or experimental critters, the consensus would be One) make sure that humans remain above the dangers of inbreeding (As what my feedback gives me, a half million might be a scary drop from eight billion, it’s still above that danger.) Two) make sure that the humans are able to survive and thrive in the world, and then Three) let them go throughout the surrounding regions to return to their place in the world, hoping that they’d form their own cities, families, farms, and what not. While the Eladrin will come off as high and mighty and patronizing, most of them will try to get a message across that they’re doing what they can to help. Some would even tell them what they would feel if they themselves sees an animal that needs help. Because of this, the human’s reception of the Eladrin would run the gamut, depending on how he was treated. Some would be resentful of course, depending on how much he had Calm Emotions, Charm Person, or Suggestion cast on him. (I see the Eladrin use Enchantment Spells in lieu of the paddle. “Human parents used to spank their children with wooden paddles?!?!?! What kind of savages are they?!” Also to be spoken is the need to ensure their genetic survival by making sure they breed. I know there’s a couple Eladrin would be interested in Human Breeding.) Others would be wary of whatever or not these High Elves would decide to take over the planet and enslave every flauna, flora, and sentient being on it. (Some would even keep an eye on them in private to see if that’s their plan.) Right now, I see the common conception of Eladrin as an otherworldly race of beings who arrived in their time of need, brought them back from the brink, and then after making sure that they’ll leave, they just set them free. Granted, they weren’t the most congenial of folks, but they made it clear that they did the best they could. Heck, some of them would even be grateful enough to want to stay with the Eladrin. I want the relations between the two to have a full range from adversarial to affable. Because of this, the human culture will have a lot of fey influence, just as pagan culture and native American culture blended into Christian culture, the Eladrin’s time with them will affect their own culture—especially filling in places where their culture was erased in their fall. I might not know of every aspect of this influence—I’m still open for suggestions—but I would say that their clothing would be flowing and colorful—something that would be used to tell adventurers apart from townspeople—a taste of cuisine that includes plenty of cakes and wines (although Chocolate would be a human-only delicacy: I see the Coca plant to affect any Elf like High Proof Alcohol) and a love for learning and affinity for magic. (I do see Elves ensure that every one of their charges knows out to read; in this setting I’m making, the literacy rate among humans would be up to 99%) The Eladrin would pick up something as well, especially with introducing some local color in their outfits and finding out what dishes they could make with local game animals. Tastes of pastimes would need some appropriateness into account: “What the hell is this football about? Kicking around a ball and crashing into each other? Sheesh! The things you do for fun!! Give me golf any day, it’s a lot more civilized.” Item: The World’s Fall There have been some articles, one made by Stefan himself, that describes the fall of the Roman Empire and listed how the Modern Age is staring down a similar fall. I see the fall go from what we have now, to Brave New World, and from there the Fall of the Roman Empire. The rulers of such dystopias will quickly realize how much on sand they built their world on when a dragon shows up. Item: Post-Fall Geography I’ll be keeping most of the original names of cities and countries, although I use some derivatives to further denote some geographical regions. Parts of France and Belgium become Flanders, a part of Germany is renamed Bavaria, Spain is considered a continent, and so on. Item: 16th Century dynamics As Siegfried said, human civilization would be differed more among local cultures and maybe even class than between races and gender. At this point in the timeline, there would be some city states run by local Lords, but actual kingdoms would be few and far between, and no existing Nation-States around. The Eladrin might have set up a place for different parties to settle any disputes, but they do not have power over these states (nor do they want to. They know better.) Over time, I see this Court (located in Paris) would branch off into smaller such courts throughout the world. Item: RichardY’s input While I’ll be retaining D&D 5E’s standard abilities, I can actually see where some of your mentioned renames might come into play. In 5E, there is a possibility to add Honor or Sanity into the Ability Scores. Since Æthercoil will add some focus to interacting with others, and there’s no doubt going to be some politics involved, maybe there is a need for sub-abilities that are formulated by the original six abilities. Before I go on, I have a convention to explain: I refer to the score of the ability by its full name (Strength) and the modifier by its Abbreviation (STR). This would come into play in the following list, where I combine two Ability Modifiers to create a third: · Integrity: WIS + STR · Rhetoric: INT + DEX · Conviction: CHA + WIS · Grit: CHA + CON · Cunning: DEX + WIS It’s an incomplete list: I’m thinking of pairing one of the first three abilities {STR, DEX, CON} with one of the second {INT, WIS, CHA}. This will make for nine sub-abilities used in scenes where combat isn’t involved and is definitely the genesis of a new mechanic which I’ll develop for Æthercoil. I’ve already got descriptions of the Races down, which I’ll show when I finally get out a preview of the Player Rules. I’m about 60% done with that. Philosopher Kings, Sages, and other ruler-like classes would probably be used in upcoming paragon level gameplay, which will come later. A form of Internet in the form of a visual telegraph will be part of the Playtest Campaign I’m calling “The Lost Archive of Calais.” The treasure in the Archive is a form of telegraph, both visual and later wire-based. In the latter stages, the Visual Telegraph begins to be implemented. Medicinal Dung? Dude, have you not heard about Dr. Seuss? What have your parents been teaching you? Call CFS, you’ve been deprived!

My apologies if this breaks the protocol against bumping your own thread. It's just that I have an additional point to hash around here. (Ditto with any changes in text styles; I'm doing some mad clip and pasting here.) Point: Humans raised by Elves As I hinted above in the previous post, I have High Elves and Eladrin raise a section of the remnant of the surviving humans as foster parents, in their effort to pull Humans from the endangered species list. What would a human raised by elves be like? I'm sure that they'll be some Fey cultural influences in the Humans, especially in some aesthetics (such as clothing, some skills, and the possibility of Human Bladesingers which I do allow.) But I'm open to any other details. I've already thought of two. One: While the Elves would treat their human charges well, the jury is still out over whatever a Elf Parent-Human Child pairing would be like Parent and Child or Owner and Pet? The second part would be possible due to how short Humans are, of course. Also, even with the second option, it won't be like the human would be getting a raw deal. Humans sometimes treat their pets like their beloved children; I'm sure Elves can be the same way. A Second thought came from a quick Google Search for this very thing. I found this paragraph from another discussion (Link: https://www.lythia.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12214 ) I mentioned this question over at Reddit (Link: https://www.reddit.com/r/DnD/comments/7wne5z/humans_raised_by_elves/ )and got some feedback about how humans raised by elves would consider their own upbringing, and they run the gamut from positive to outright antagonistic. While the reality of the human's response to their benefactors will indeed be ranged, I think that the Eladrin would do the best they can to ensure that their human charges have some variant of a stable child-bringing. They would, of course, have a softer technique in parenting. They'd, of course, wouldn't even think of using the paddle. (They'd only have to read the Bible through once to figure out that the Rod is a Shepherd's Crook, not a Singapore Cane) However, they'll have their own questionable practices, such as the use of Enchantment spells (such as Calm Emotions as an example.) to guide their children into more proper thinking. Sometimes this shortcut is necessary. ("Yeah yeah, I know that putting thoughts in that kid's not an argument, but how else am I going to get him to speak and read fluent Elvish within a week? I have to get them to speak our language if we're going to teach them, right?") In my stance, I'm thinking that the Eladrin would do the best to raise their charges and even share parts of their fey culture to their foster children. This will have an effect in the adventuring outfits the adventurers would wear, even to the point of having team uniforms that resemble some Anime shows. They'd also have some traits listed in the quoted paragraph, where their aggressive natures are channeled into more productive endeavors and be more sensitive toward the world around them. (And of course, the most common lesson that an Elf can teach a Human: "I know your life is painfully short compared to mine, my friend, but there's something to be said of slowing down from your breakneck pace and taking in life every now and then. Stop and smell the roses, as the saying goes, it's good for you.") Of course, I'm just brain farting here, tossing ideas up here to see what sticks and what bounces away. If you have anything to add, I'm happy to hear it. Your input might help my good idea improve on its way to a published book.

I'm cutting this campaign out of whole cloth. I'll set almost all of the campaigns I run in this setting, even if it's something innocuous as a general store-bought campaign. As for what Siegfried von Walheim said earlier, I have some itemized responses: Item: Backgrounds I haven’t had any thought on a Player Character’s Upbringing, and as most people here who play RPGs can say, you don’t usually think of such when you roll up a character. However, there is a point I’d like to address: In the aftermath of the collapse, I have a connection between the Earth and a Feywild-like realm—I’ll let you google “Feywild” if you want to know more about it—where I have a party of elven people known as Eladrin show up to discover Humans reduced to a half million remaining and staring extinction in the face. (Think of a combination of an Ancient Alien that you’d hear in the History Channel, Angel, and the Elves from Lord of the Rings, and you have the Eladrin.) They took to the remaining humans and pulled them away from the proverbial endangered species list. How they’d do it is open for discussion. At the start, these Eladrin took a hands-on approach in raising the younger survivors of the collapse, but as those children grow up, the Eladrin let them strike out on their own, marry, and reproduce. It could be expected that their adopted Elven parents would have some effect on these human’s own parenting. Item 2.1: The World’s fall. At this point, I have this degeneration appear in a double century—Not just a rapid crash but a frighteningly rapid crash—to show my concerns over the kind of world government I fear coming, from what I’ve seen not just by Antifa’s tendency to destroy statues and historical sites, but also in the general degeneration in education. We’re talking George Orwell on Steroids. This group—known as “The True Order”—not only succeeded in memory holing human culture wholesale but declaring even thinking about someone’s heritage—let alone talking about it—a capital offense. Think of Xerses threatening to do to Leonidas in the movie 300. I have it so that it only took a generation or two for a general population to forget their entire history. It might sound far-fetched at this point which is why I wanted to hash these ideas out here, but there are several Science Fiction writers out there who made cases of just that happening. Item 2.2: The world after the fall. Right now, I’m focusing my campaign setting in the former Western Europe, known in-campaign as the Europa Coast. I chose this region because it would be closer to more established D&D campaign settings, like the Forgotten Relams. I have plans to expand the setting to China and North America in the future. The Europa Coast consists of a series of city-states and small-scale kingdoms within a vast wild wilderness surrounded by still present ruins of the modern world. Communities would be built on what little they’re told about the local environment. A village in former Germany would resemble a Barvarian village, for example, or a village in what was former Spain would have their buildings connected end to end in Basque style. I will develop this further on a case by case basis. Item 3: Themes On the record, I consider myself a Classical Liberal slash Free Thinker, if in position if not in name. I tend to deal with topics on a case by case basis and I might fall either way depending on the topic of discussion. I only call myself Red-Pilled Right because I’m ‘to the Right’ of a Millennial College Student in my views. In this current year, that’s enough to get me labeled a “Deplorable Monster.” The Eurpoa Coast would have a series of states with varying cultures and beliefs but with a Common Language along with local dialects. Some states might have a conflict, while others are trying to get along with each other, for trade, mutual protection, or other reasons. Eventually, they might form some Inter-state factions such as “The Lord’s Alliance” or “The Order of the Gauntlet” to attempt to push the wilderness back.

Thank you. Any suggestions on what you'd want to see first?

"Yeah yeah, Boo. Minsc's boot is not an argument, but neither is the stench coming from that Stinking Evil!" There's something I needed to add to "civilization going down the drainpipe": While that's in the backstory, it remains in the backstory. My campaign world focuses on the rebuilding part. Where someone finds the proverbial aftermath of "the Lorax"--complete with the rock with 'Unless' chiseled on it, and becomes that someone who cares a whole lot and makes it better. It's about those who rise up after the two extremes take each other out and move on with their lives. And while I'll take a look at Shadowrun, the ruleset for Æthercoil is going to be D&D Fifth Edition. It still has an easy learning curve, and it's the game system that almost everyone's playing with at this time.

Thank you very much for welcoming me into this group. I've been an avid watcher of Stefan for quite some time now, and I have a topic that might be strange to some, but some people here might be interested in me. I'm designing a D&D campaign setting titled Æthercoil, which takes a post-apocalyptic twist in the classic Tabletop Role Playing Game. The campaign setting is your classic D&D world (Elves, Goblins, Dungeon Delving, treasure and magic items, and all that) but it's set after the fall of the modern world--the very world we all live in. In fact, the players would not only recognize some of the ruins of famous cities, and the character the players are playing as will put something that would be familiar into a new light. I shared some ideas in a periodical available at DriveThruRPG: http://www.drivethrurpg.com/browse/pub/10063/FoxfireStudios . I'm currently working on a playtest rules which will include a starter campaign. As I worked on the design, there are two areas that would connect with others here, and maybe Stefan as well. I'm sure that even him would have his concerns over what counts as political debate in the current year. I took my own fears about the whole year and put it in this setting. In Æthercoil, the Modern World fell because, as Stefan would say, people all over the world put down the words and picked up the sticks. It would be the moment that we all dread happening: The Archduke Ferdinand moment of the 21st century. Along the way of this fall, society went hard into Orwellian territories where all vestiges of history were burned as well as knowledge, vocabulary, and any other parts of civilization to the point that nobody has any memories about what happened in the Lost Age. Three Centuries Prior. All that the average person in the Æthercoil setting about the Lost Age is this: "The fall began when the Cubs won the World Series." Whatever the bleep that is. I can talk more about this area later. The second part is a unique application of philosophy, or at least to some people: I wonder if it's possible to implement various philosophies, such as Universally Preferable Behavior, in a campaign. While the characters in the campaign are going on adventures to find out more about their history, they're also rebuilding civilization. With no historical touchstones or a concept of who they are as a people, society is forced to rebuild with what they have with them. With all that they actually have is each other, how would they figure out how to build any civilization, let along a benevolent one? I hope that I can have some interesting hashing out about the big picture parts of my campaign setting and maybe even have a group to help me playtest a campaign. If it helps improve the campaign setting as it progresses to a printed book form, I'll consider being here time well spent. I look forward to hearing from you all--as well as Stefan himself. I can dream, can I?--and finding out what you think about it. NOTICE: There's is a post that got hidden because of something or another, thanks to me having a Neutral Reputation. Please make sure that you unhide comments. I assure you that no offensive content is intended.