bertmuscala Posted January 25, 2013 Posted January 25, 2013 To get it out of the way, I'm a soldier in the US Army. Have been for 3 years and have 3 years left on my contract. To make it worse, I am an infantryman. I joined at a time in my life when I was a Ron Paul style minarchist. I still had love of country and those sorts of collective nationalist type feelings, though I disagreed with our general foreign policy, and domestic as well. I was hopeful. I had hope that Ron Paul would gain momentum and my job would turn into defending my nation as I saw it. Turns out, I couldn't have been more wrong. I'm not sure about how to get out of this. I've asked about conscientious objector status, but have been denied this based on a lack of religion. I was jewish when I joined and apparently a study of philosophy and a religious change to atheism doesn't count for study of religion that I was not a part of when I joined. So while I am still here, I guess the only up side is being one of those impossibilities of the world as theists see it. I have been and likely again will be an athiest in a foxhole. All the incriminating stuff aside, I had the typical journey to a Voluntarist NAP centered world view. I was raised a Bush loving Republican. I remember my first taste of the political system in 2nd grade. We held a mock election for the Presidential race between Clinton Dole and Perot. I remember one of the points we were given was their favorite ice cream flavor. I look back at this seeing it for the disgusting act of dumbing down that it was, but I digress. I voted for Clinton based on him liking chocolate Ice cream. My dad told me this was wrong, I should vote for Dole. I didn't know why, but I agreed. I was politically active through high school, supportive of Bush in his second election against Kerry. But through his second term I suddenly found myself questioning his politics. I'd found Ron Paul on youtube and read Ayn Rand and went from there. I learned quickly and shifted to Libertarianism with a fierceness. Arguments with history and civics teachers became my normal day. Especially when being told that the political spectrum was democrat and republican. Voted Chuck Baldwin in the first election I was able to vote in, because I couldn't stand that Bob Barr got the nod for the Libertarian Party. Since then, I found Stef and grew to love studying philosophy. I always found myself migrating toward the individualist philosophy. I read the other side to understand better what the individualists were talking about. I joined the army and really started listening to Stef (odd timing) and since have come to be anti-government anti-religious (thanks to Hitchens) and anti-collective entirely. I hate myself everyday that I wear this uniform. It's gotten extremely dark in the last 3 years for me. Camus' absurdism has made it easier, but it's an easy way out. Telling myself that I can't possibly know what is absolute truth and that the journey to truth is the important part is probably the only thing that keeps me from joining the big army statistic right now. Side note, I've told my father how I feel about America...he didn't take it well. Matter of fact it instantly went from the one solid good relationship I had to his disgust.
Stephen C Posted January 25, 2013 Posted January 25, 2013 Hi. Please please please aim that self hatred at who it belongs to, sounds like your father.
bertmuscala Posted January 25, 2013 Author Posted January 25, 2013 Thanks for the advise. Oddly enough when I joined he tried to talk me out of it due to his own fear of me doing what he had done for so long. But it's a separate issue. The self hatred comes because of what I do. His disgust comes for what I believe. I don't hate him for it. He's had a long life of indoctrination. I can get him to come around. If anybody in my family is going to come to the side of voluntarism it's him. Or at least get him as close as I can.
Mira Posted January 25, 2013 Posted January 25, 2013 Welcome, I'm glad to see you here. Thank you for sharing your story and for searching for the truth. Most of us here know that it's not easy. It can help and inspire others to do the same. There might be others in the army in a similar situation. I think that now that you're aware of your situation, you might be able to find options eventually.
Stephen C Posted January 25, 2013 Posted January 25, 2013 Does self hatred help you stop doing what you do?
bertmuscala Posted January 25, 2013 Author Posted January 25, 2013 Thanks Mira, good way to look at it. Stephen, no it honestly doesn't. Tough to get rid of though. I've gotten a lot better about it then I was a year ago that's for sure. I'm working on it.
Stephen C Posted January 25, 2013 Posted January 25, 2013 Thanks Mira, good way to look at it. Stephen, no it honestly doesn't. Tough to get rid of though. I've gotten a lot better about it then I was a year ago that's for sure. I'm working on it. I'm not sure there's anything to get rid of. I think it's worth aiming it at the person who it belongs to.
Isomies Posted January 26, 2013 Posted January 26, 2013 Bert - sorry to hear about your life situation. As libertarians we are always easy to point out issues in other people's behavior and straightening ourselves out is always the hardest thing to do. I would imagine it's not pleasant for you there if you've made your conclusions known. It sounds like the longer you stay in the more it will just grind away at your integrity...we're here to help even if it's in a small way....I grew up in a military family and have a falling apart with brother who is long time in the Air Force. He understands the arguments for non violence but ignores it for the lies. I think he has to drink away the cognitive dissonance. Hope that you can make it out and not get folded back in.
bertmuscala Posted January 28, 2013 Author Posted January 28, 2013 That's pretty normal Isomies. I've recently had to stop drinking all together as I'd realized I've lost control of knowing when to stop. I'm certain I'm not alone. I know with the recent gun issue, there are many who will not follow an order to remove guns from homes. My entire unit is unanimous in this. Just wish we could get that across the board for every issue of removing liberty.
Brandon Buck _BB_ Posted January 28, 2013 Posted January 28, 2013 Welcome, Bert. You demonstrate empathy in understanding your father's indoctrination and you seem sympathetic to his plight. I beg you to afford yourself the same. After all, you're a product of his indoctrination so it stands to reason that you followed along and did what you thought was best in joining the military. That you now see the error in your decision and in your father's indoctrination is to be loved & respected, not hated. Your post resonates with me somewhat because my son joined the Army when we were both still minarchists. Not long after basic, he saw the machine for what it was and fortunately he was able to get himself phased out before he completed AIT. He called himself an agnostic but they tagged him as an atheist. He wasn't happy about that and while he was in AIT he attended at least one of every flavor of religious service they had... by the time he left he was proud of the "atheist" stamp on his tags. [] I'd also like to offer that there are a lot of people in the media who would be very interested that the military refuses to acknowledge an atheist as a conscientious objector. What they're telling you is that as an atheist, you cannot have any moral grounds from which to base your objection to their predations on innocent people. Your story could not only be your way out of the military but it could also help others in your position. I look forward to hearing your thoughts and if needed, finding someone who can help you and others like you.
cjtkirk Posted January 29, 2013 Posted January 29, 2013 My first post on FDR. Just to say it has been nice to read such caring and thought out comments. Glad to be here.
Guest NateC Posted January 29, 2013 Posted January 29, 2013 Whaddup, cjtkirk Bert, hey man, I've been working on my Conscientious Objector packet in the Navy and although I'll be separating in April for other reasons, I may still try to submit the CO application when I'm finishing out my service obligation in the reserves. Here are some resources:- Daniel Lakemacher, http://warisimmoral.com/ (thanks cherapple)- http://www.couragetoresist.org/ and (thanks Stef)- http://www.centeronconscience.org/ (they helped me draft my CO application, thanks Maria)- podcasts 146, 302, 1080, and 1093 Nate
Val Posted January 29, 2013 Posted January 29, 2013 Hello Bert, I am new to posting here too. I would just like to suggest you check out Adam VS. The Man. He has talked about helping guys get out of the military as conscientious objectors. He was in the marines himself. I think he would make an excellant resource for you. If you haven't heard of his already. He and Stef have been on each other's shows before I think. But other then that, it's nice to here there are those in the ranks that feel like you do. Hang in there. Thanks for sharing.
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