Russian speakers

[heymanslow]

Hello, all.

I am posting this to check whether there are any rational, psychologically aware Russian-speaking people out there (if you are reading this and speak Russian, then quite possibly you are one) and to extend an invitation to such people to send me a personal message and to possibly have a Skype conversation, if we both decide we are interested.

Briefly, about myself. I am 28, I am originally from Belarus, currently I live in Seattle with my two best friends and attend a counseling graduate program to become a psychotherapist. Over the past few years I have striven to change my social milieu, so that I only have personal relationships with people who are honest, rational, and curious. This, unfortunately, has eliminated all the Russian-speaking people from my life, and, although it is not the end of the world, I would still very much like to have someone who I could talk to in my first language.

If you speak Russian and are interested in philosophy or are just trying to make good logical sense of the world around and inside you, shoot me a message!

Max

[Connor]

I'm sorry I can't help you, but I thought I'd let you know that I read this in a heavy russian accent

[heymanslow]

I appreciate that, hopefully that will bring good karma to this thread.

[GrungeGuy]

... also good in a Sean Connery accent. []

*bump!*

[heymanslow]

Thanks, Ben[] (I said it in a Sir Sean Connery accent, of course.)

[Existing Alternatives]

Interesting point. Russians and Russian-speakers aren’t exactly the most rational bunch. That’s what decades of studying and mixing together Lenin and Dostoyevsky will do to you. Throw on top wars and genocide and you’d be happy to be able to stand on your own two feet in the morning. I find it particularly interesting that you find it difficult to connect (in terms of reason and logic) within Russian-speaking immigrant circles. Think about it, Rand was a Russian-speaking immigrant herself, so, go figure.

 

I’m in Toronto (Canada) myself, and I would not even attempt looking for any of that amongst immigrants here. But I am happy to talk anytime… Any luck tracking down any FDR fans in Russia (or the satellites)?

[Toren]

Наверное я отвечаю в этот топик несколько поздно

Hi man, I too tried to find Russian speaking people on that forum, no success before now. I hope there are much more of us here than only two.

 

To Existing Alternatives

 

"As a bunch" you may be right, aren't in the first row, however as individuals through natural selection of church, socialism and other "healthy stuff" people understand the reason to be rational: not to be in contact with all mentioned above and vice versa to be in contact with people of reason.

[Sal9000]

I speak some Russian

[Toren]

Welcome aboard, comrade!

Are you a native Russian speaker? Anyway what brought you to knowledge of Russian language?

[aleles]

Превед, кросавчеги! ))Hey Max and everyone, I am from Russia, you can find my story on the board. Nice to meet rational Russian speaking people! I was also looking for any FDR content in Russian or any related projects in Russian on the web (I posted about it on the board). The only info I found was a right wing conservative radio and some libertarian resources including anarcho-capitalist blogs and FB/VK groups. If you know something good in Russian, please let me know.

[Toren]

Ололо кажется пора переходить на Mother-tongue

Good to see you, man! We're growing in numbers so fast! I haven't found your story in your profile, is it about family? I didn't find anything worth spending time on, related to content like FDR in Russian speaking segment of the web.

Btw I wanted to promote FDR among friends trying to make audio for one of Stefan's shows but it's too time consuming, I gave up. Now thinking about subtitles for popular YouTube casts. Any thoughts about that?

[Slavik]

Yep I speak Russian, I imagine my name gives it away as well.  I wont write in Russian here, but in short, shoot me a private message, I will be happy to join in. 

[Existing Alternatives]

This is very strange, the original post received virtually no responses for over a year, and now there are four within one day! I guess rationality is winning in the Russian-speaking circles.

To Existing Alternatives

 

"As a bunch" you may be right, aren't in the first row, however as individuals through natural selection of church, socialism and other "healthy stuff" people understand the reason to be rational: not to be in contact with all mentioned above and vice versa to be in contact with people of reason.

 

Toren, it sounds like you are agreeing with me, that Russians in general aren’t really receptive to the ideas of rational thinking. Especially, given the history of communism, royalty-worshiping, orthodoxy and general communal way of thinking. Clearly, there would be exceptions, like, perhaps, ourselves and even Ayn Rand. If it is so, why downvote?

[Slavik]

This is very strange, the original post received virtually no responses for over a year, and now there are four within one day! I guess rationality is winning in the Russian-speaking circles.

 

Toren, it sounds like you are agreeing with me, that Russians in general aren’t really receptive to the ideas of rational thinking. Especially, given the history of communism, royalty-worshiping, orthodoxy and general communal way of thinking. Clearly, there would be exceptions, like, perhaps, ourselves and even Ayn Rand. If it is so, why downvote?

It wasnt Toren who downwoted you, it was me.  I did so, because I didnt like your characterization of Russians being not the most rational bunch, we are not a bunch.  And then in the same post you contradicted yourself by pointing out very rational Russian speaking people.   Russians are just as irrational as English speaking people, after all "the American empire".  Last point I want to make is this: I am Russian speaking, not Russian as in holding /having any  ties with geographical location with a name, and really do not like when people bunch others together. 

[Existing Alternatives]

It wasnt Toren who downwoted you, it was me.  I did so, because I didnt like your characterization of Russians being not the most rational bunch, we are not a bunch.  And then in the same post you contradicted yourself by pointing out very rational Russian speaking people.   Russians are just as irrational as English speaking people, after all "the American empire".  Last point I want to make is this: I am Russian speaking, not Russian as in holding /having any  ties with geographical location with a name, and really do not like when people bunch others together. 

 

Thank you for clarifying. Toren, sorry for assuming it was you (yes, I was relying simply on your response).

 

My post had actually nothing to do with “bunching” people – far from it. It is simply a response to the OP on searching for “rational, psychologically aware Russian-speaking people out there.”

 

As far as I can tell, the ideas of rationality and self-awareness are not particularly prevalent in either Russian or Russian-speaking communities. Would you not agree? I would love to be proven wrong. And no, Ayn Rand does not count – she is way too much of an exception, and is likely more American than Russian as far as philosophy is concerned.

[Slavik]

Thank you for clarifying. Toren, sorry for assuming it was you (yes, I was relying simply on your response).

 

My post had actually nothing to do with “bunching” people – far from it. It is simply a response to the OP on searching for “rational, psychologically aware Russian-speaking people out there.”

 

As far as I can tell, the ideas of rationality and self-awareness are not particularly prevalent in either Russian or Russian-speaking communities. Would you not agree? I would love to be proven wrong. And no, Ayn Rand does not count – she is way too much of an exception, and is likely more American than Russian as far as philosophy is concerned.

Well I simply didnt like the statement "not the most rational bunch".  Would you not agree that it carries a lot of negative connotation.  This is what I responded to by voting down.  Maybe a knee jerk reaction on my part.  I should have just responded to you to clarify instead of marking you down, I apologize for that.  I am going to up one of your other posts, since I can not fix this one. 

[Toren]

Welcome to our humble rational Russian speaking community, Slavik, though it's you who should welcome me, I'm a newbie here.

I added everyone who responded to this post, but I presume that it's more productive to stick to this thread in case of discussing some RUSSIAN stuff Just make sure you follow this topic.Concerning your little argument, gentlemen, at first when I read about "Russians are not rational bunch" I thought it was a little bit russophibic, but then, remembering that I don't care for any kind of social or racial pride any more, I felt relieved Although I can say that majority of Russians are irrational simply because I live here, but I've never been abroad so I can't judge about percentage of rational people somewhere out of Russia, but, as Slavic claimed, and I agree in my assumptions with him that this percentage might be as high as that in Russia.

[aleles]

Ололо кажется пора переходить на Mother-tongue

Good to see you, man! We're growing in numbers so fast! I haven't found your story in your profile, is it about family? I didn't find anything worth spending time on, related to content like FDR in Russian speaking segment of the web.

Btw I wanted to promote FDR among friends trying to make audio for one of Stefan's shows but it's too time consuming, I gave up. Now thinking about subtitles for popular YouTube casts. Any thoughts about that?

 

Here's my intro story, btw I just found yours there too )) Are you preparing for TOEFL to study abroad?

https://board.freedomainradio.com/topic/39315-hi-from-cleveland-kansas-city-and-russia/

 

Here's a similar discussion I started about FDR content in other languages

https://board.freedomainradio.com/topic/39316-fdr-in-other-languages/?hl=%2Bcontent+%2Bother+%2Blanguages

 

I think we definitely need FDR in Russian! We can either just translate FDR best hits or we can start a new project off the FDR content and see where it goes under the influence of the "russian mindset". Both will require enormous time. I have a few ideas how we can translate, structure and make it more text/web friendly for the Russian speaking audience.

 

Here's a TOEFL exercise for you ) translate this formula that appears in many podcasts and I think answers the WHY question about what we do: Reason = Virtue = Happiness. The last one is easy, but I'm having a hard time with the first two. Разум = Добро = Счастье? Благоразумие = Добродетель = Счастье?

Here's a topic I started to clarify its meaning https://board.freedomainradio.com/topic/39888-reason-virtue-happiness/

[Slavik]

Here's my intro story, btw I just found yours there too )) Are you preparing for TOEFL to study abroad?

https://board.freedomainradio.com/topic/39315-hi-from-cleveland-kansas-city-and-russia/

 

Here's a similar discussion I started about FDR content in other languages

https://board.freedomainradio.com/topic/39316-fdr-in-other-languages/?hl=%2Bcontent+%2Bother+%2Blanguages

 

I think we definitely need FDR in Russian! We can either just translate FDR best hits or we can start a new project off the FDR content and see where it goes under the influence of the "russian mindset". Both will require enormous time. I have a few ideas how we can translate, structure and make it more text/web friendly for the Russian speaking audience.

 

Here's a TOEFL exercise for you ) translate this formula that appears in many podcasts and I think answers the WHY question about what we do: Reason = Virtue = Happiness. The last one is easy, but I'm having a hard time with the first two. Разум = Добро = Счастье? Благоразумие = Добродетель = Счастье?

Here's a topic I started to clarify its meaning https://board.freedomainradio.com/topic/39888-reason-virtue-happiness/

Let me give it a shot  Reason=Virtue=Happiness

Reason-the power of the mind to think, understand, and form judgments by a process of logic.  So we can biol it down to logical thinking (Логическое Мышление)

Virtue-behavior showing high moral standards (моральное поведение) or just (мораль)

Happiness- Счастье

Логическое Мышление=моральное поведение=Счастье 

How does that look? 

[Existing Alternatives]

This is part of an issue with the "Russian mindset" - Russian language itself does not readily avail itself to such concepts. But this is a fantastic exercise, before one embarks on the whole "let's translate  the entire UPB," it's important to check if we can translate even three words...

 

Here is my take: разум = добродетель = счастье

 

And, btw, to your other forum discussion, these are true "equal signs", not implications.

[Slavik]

This is part of an issue with the "Russian mindset" - Russian language itself does not readily avail itself to such concepts. But this is a fantastic exercise, before one embarks on the whole "let's translate  the entire UPB," it's important to check if we can translate even three words...

 

Here is my take: разум = добродетель = счастье

 

And, btw, to your other forum discussion, these are true "equal signs", not implications.

I have no problem talking to my Russian friends and family members in Russian about philosophy.  Can you tell me the whole point that you are trying to make by saying things such as "Russian mindset" or "language isnt readily available", what is the point in saying this?  I understand the difficulty in talking to some who have yet to learn the concepts, but what is your point about Russians that you constantly bring this up?  Im just curious, can you tell me what it is you are trying to say about Russians? 

[Existing Alternatives]

I have no problem talking to my Russian friends and family members in Russian about philosophy.  Can you tell me the whole point that you are trying to make by saying things such as "Russian mindset" or "language isnt readily available", what is the point in saying this?  I understand the difficulty in talking to some who have yet to learn the concepts, but what is your point about Russians that you constantly bring this up?  Im just curious, can you tell me what it is you are trying to say about Russians? 

 

My last post is a response to Aleles' question about "FDR content [...] under the influence of the "russian mindset"" So, "Russian mindset" is really not my term. The concern about language, however, is all mine. I do find it extremely hard to translate into Russian concepts that are so easily explainable in English. Just like the equation above. It could be just me, but I think it is more than just my failure. Have Ayn Rand ever translated Atlas Shrugged in Russian (I actually dont know)? Of all people she would have been the best person to do the explanation of rationality, but something tells me she did not (or could not).

 

I am very happy to hear that you are able to communicate with your family and friends and would like to learn more about it. 

 

And the only reason I "constantly" bring up Russians in this thread, is that it is the subject of this thread (kind of).

[Toren]

And the only reason I "constantly" bring up Russians in this thread, is that it is the subject of this thread (kind of).

 

This is part of an issue with the "Russian mindset" - Russian language itself does not readily avail itself to such concepts.

Maybe you could expand or justify what you imply about Russian language, I don't understand your point. For now it looks like russophobic mindset of yours, it's ok, maybe Russia's made bad things to you, but it's ok for me as long as it doesn't hurt logic. Many philosophy books were translated to Russian and much more engineering and science documents were Written in Russian, these include the most complex concepts ever possible so I don't think Russian is an obstacle for understanding such concepts, only in terms of language barrier for people with low English skill. However what you're talking about are basic concepts so I don't find them hard to explain.We know that Ayn Rand was influenced by the ideas of Friedrich Nietzsche when she was studying in University of st.Petersburg. Do you suppose that she had troubles understanding concepts she learned presumably in Russian?BTW I'm trying to bring rationality to my friends and family too, so there are many concepts from this show we're talking about but they don't know English at all.

[Toren]

Here's my intro story, btw I just found yours there too )) Are you preparing for TOEFL to study abroad?

https://board.freedomainradio.com/topic/39315-hi-from-cleveland-kansas-city-and-russia/

 

Here's a similar discussion I started about FDR content in other languages

https://board.freedomainradio.com/topic/39316-fdr-in-other-languages/?hl=%2Bcontent+%2Bother+%2Blanguages

 

I think we definitely need FDR in Russian! We can either just translate FDR best hits or we can start a new project off the FDR content and see where it goes under the influence of the "russian mindset". Both will require enormous time. I have a few ideas how we can translate, structure and make it more text/web friendly for the Russian speaking audience.

 

Here's a TOEFL exercise for you ) translate this formula that appears in many podcasts and I think answers the WHY question about what we do: Reason = Virtue = Happiness. The last one is easy, but I'm having a hard time with the first two. Разум = Добро = Счастье? Благоразумие = Добродетель = Счастье?

Here's a topic I started to clarify its meaning https://board.freedomainradio.com/topic/39888-reason-virtue-happiness/

Thank you, man, for bringing these links up. Yeah I learned English to study abroad, passed TOEFL with score of 104/120, it was acceptable for institution I intended to go to. I failed fabulously when didn't fit in time to apply for position,however it is another story altogether.

Idea of a project like FDR in Russian is something that definitely should be made! For now I'm going to make some subtitles for most popular or important shows, for YouTube I presume. I don't have much time to spare, but If you have any ideas you may find my Skype name in my profile, it would be useful to discuss and share such things.

My try: Логическое мышление (потому что Reason is the capacity for consciously making sense of things, applying logic) Моральные качества (потому что Virtue (Latin: virtus, Ancient Greek: ἀρετή "arete") is moral excellence.) Счастье.

[Slavik]

My last post is a response to Aleles' question about "FDR content [...] under the influence of the "russian mindset"" So, "Russian mindset" is really not my term. The concern about language, however, is all mine. I do find it extremely hard to translate into Russian concepts that are so easily explainable in English. Just like the equation above. It could be just me, but I think it is more than just my failure. Have Ayn Rand ever translated Atlas Shrugged in Russian (I actually dont know)? Of all people she would have been the best person to do the explanation of rationality, but something tells me she did not (or could not).

 

I am very happy to hear that you are able to communicate with your family and friends and would like to learn more about it. 

 

And the only reason I "constantly" bring up Russians in this thread, is that it is the subject of this thread (kind of).

just as a side note since you asked, I am happy to say that all Ayn Rand books are in Russian translation and have been for a very long time.  What I have personally found (meaning my personal experiences not generalization) is that Russians I speak to, can be and are very logical intelligent people.  Many Russians are indeed mired in the whole communism socialism mantras, but I found that their personal ideologies are coming from faulty logic (by that I mean no deities are involved).  I find it much easier talking to many Russians since they do not go by faith.

[Existing Alternatives]

Maybe you could expand or justify what you imply about Russian language, I don't understand your point. For now it looks like russophobic mindset of yours, it's ok, maybe Russia's made bad things to you, but it's ok for me as long as it doesn't hurt logic. Many philosophy books were translated to Russian and much more engineering and science documents were Written in Russian, these include the most complex concepts ever possible so I don't think Russian is an obstacle for understanding such concepts, only in terms of language barrier for people with low English skill. However what you're talking about are basic concepts so I don't find them hard to explain.We know that Ayn Rand was influenced by the ideas of Friedrich Nietzsche when she was studying in University of st.Petersburg. Do you suppose that she had troubles understanding concepts she learned presumably in Russian?BTW I'm trying to bring rationality to my friends and family too, so there are many concepts from this show we're talking about but they don't know English at all.

 

Ok, so let's not throw "phobic" labels around. Merely thinking that one language can be more adapt for certain concepts than the other, hardly justifies "hating all things attributable to that culture and people" label. And how can Russia (a country) do things?

 

Btw, you would think Ayn Rand would have translated her most fundamental work for the benefit of the group (not "bunch" of course) of people who needed it most at the time, but she did not. I do not know why. My hypothesis is that she might have found it hard using the language. As I stated above, it is my hypothesis based on my personal experience and understanding. The reason why people state their hypotheses here is to have them either debunked or supported.

[Slavik]

Ok, so let's not throw "phobic" labels around. Merely thinking that one language can be more adapt for certain concepts than the other, hardly justifies "hating all things attributable to that culture and people" label. And how can Russia (a country) do things?

 

Btw, you would think Ayn Rand would have translated her most fundamental work for the benefit of the group (not "bunch" of course) of people who needed it most at the time, but she did not. I do not know why. My hypothesis is that she might have found it hard using the language. As I stated above, it is my hypothesis based on my personal experience and understanding. The reason why people state their hypotheses here is to have them either debunked or supported.

Well as I mentioned all of her books are in Russian now, the reason for the books not being in Russian at the time she was alive is quiet simple, the "Iron Curtain" , even though some books were passing around as contraband, you couldnt publish anything at mass.

[Existing Alternatives]

just as a side note since you asked, I am happy to say that all Ayn Rand books are in Russian translation and have been for a very long time.  What I have personally found (meaning my personal experiences not generalization) is that Russians I speak to, can be and are very logical intelligent people.  Many Russians are indeed mired in the whole communism socialism mantras, but I found that their personal ideologies are coming from faulty logic (by that I mean no deities are involved).  I find it much easier talking to many Russians since they do not go by faith.

 

I hate to belabour this point, especially since it does not seem to gain me any support here, but just two last points about Ayn Rand: how many other Russian-speaking authors had to be translated into Russian? and exactly how long is "very long" since she was translated (probably after '90s and likely after her death, meaning she had very little if any input into this translations)? 

 

And it is fantastic that you were able to find people to discuss these ideas with! It is extremely unfortunate for the society, but I also think that mantras do go much deeper than Communism / Socialism. If anything Russian people likely fallen into Communism because of their deep cultural notions, including Orthodoxy, communal living, and love for the Tsar-father figure. And Orthodoxy is still pretty well and alive there - I can not think of any other country in history that experienced such a strong acceptance of religion in such a short period of time as Russia did in the last 20 year. And Tsar-figure... well...

 

Btw, when you do speak to your friends / family about ideas of philosophy and libertarianism, which Russian-language sources do you refer them to?

[Slavik]

I hate to belabour this point, especially since it does not seem to gain me any support here, but just two last points about Ayn Rand: how many other Russian-speaking authors had to be translated into Russian? and exactly how long is "very long" since she was translated (probably after '90s and likely after her death, meaning she had very little if any input into this translations)? 

 

And it is fantastic that you were able to find people to discuss these ideas with! It is extremely unfortunate for the society, but I also think that mantras do go much deeper than Communism / Socialism. If anything Russian people likely fallen into Communism because of their deep cultural notions, including Orthodoxy, communal living, and love for the Tsar-father figure. And Orthodoxy is still pretty well and alive there - I can not think of any other country in history that experienced such a strong acceptance of religion in such a short period of time as Russia did in the last 20 year. And Tsar-figure... well...

 

Btw, when you do speak to your friends / family about ideas of philosophy and libertarianism, which Russian-language sources do you refer them to?

I dont refer them to any sources (maybe Im not understanding what you mean).  I simply talk to them about philosophy and volunteerism, by presenting concepts in Russian.

[Existing Alternatives]

I dont refer them to any sources (maybe Im not understanding what you mean).  I simply talk to them about philosophy and volunteerism, by presenting concepts in Russian.

 

What I mean by this is this... When I engage my friends on these topics, I sometimes recommend some further reading, be it Stefan, Rand, Browne, or what have you. If you were to do the same, what would you recommend to your friends? This is not an argument, just a question. I actually would like to be able to both share it with my Russian-speaking friends, and perhaps read it myself, especially if it is home-grown. 

[Slavik]

What I mean by this is this... When I engage my friends on these topics, I sometimes recommend some further reading, be it Stefan, Rand, Browne, or what have you. If you were to do the same, what would you recommend to your friends? This is not an argument, just a question. I actually would like to be able to both share it with my Russian-speaking friends, and perhaps read it myself, especially if it is home-grown. 

Well I understand its not an argument.  The reason for me not recommending anything is because I no longer live in Russia.  The other reason is that I never had much need in doing so, since just about everything English speaking people have on hand, so do Russian speaking.  Rand is translated, philosophy is studied in college.  FDR is yet to be translated, but as far as referral goes, you can just as easily direct them to Rand.

http://goldenfront.ru/articles/list/tag/анархо-капитализм

[Panoptic]

I'm actually learning Russian right now in my free time. Maybe when I become intermediate we can try talking.

[Toren]

Ok, so let's not throw "phobic" labels around. Merely thinking that one language can be more adapt for certain concepts than the other, hardly justifies "hating all things attributable to that culture and people" label. And how can Russia (a country) do things?

 

Btw, you would think Ayn Rand would have translated her most fundamental work for the benefit of the group (not "bunch" of course) of people who needed it most at the time, but she did not. I do not know why. My hypothesis is that she might have found it hard using the language. As I stated above, it is my hypothesis based on my personal experience and understanding. The reason why people state their hypotheses here is to have them either debunked or supported.

Yes, It was my presumption about "phobic" label that I made based upon your claims. I would really love to be proved wrong, and so I see from your posts that you really are not, excuse me if it hurt you somehow. Nonetheless when I talked about very complex concepts I used examples (facts) in order to justify my claims. If you could throw something in to justify yours. Or maybe prove me by simple facts everyone can understand. I don't want to start an argument but it seems like it is, so could you explain what exactly do you mean byRussian language itself does not readily avail itself to such concepts

so we could dig deeper and understand why do you feel that way, I'm sure there is a reason for that presumption that you have about Russian language.

[marina]

I was born in Kiev (while it was all still USSR so 'technically' Russia) and I speak Russian (and can read & write) but English has now become my first language since I've been in the U.S. since 1989. I dont think I have the vocabulary to discuss these complex topics/ideas in Russian but I imagine it'd be helpful for me to try since I'm eventually going to have to discuss my new way of life & way of thinking with my family. Anyway... just thought I'd pop in and say hi :-)

[aleles]

We are growing in numbers, hi Extraordinary_rendition and Marina!

 

 

Let me give it a shot  Reason=Virtue=Happiness

Reason-the power of the mind to think, understand, and form judgments by a process of logic.  So we can biol it down to logical thinking (Логическое Мышление)

Virtue-behavior showing high moral standards (моральное поведение) or just (мораль)

Happiness- Счастье

Логическое Мышление=моральное поведение=Счастье 

How does that look?

 

 

 

This is part of an issue with the "Russian mindset" - Russian language itself does not readily avail itself to such concepts. But this is a fantastic exercise, before one embarks on the whole "let's translate  the entire UPB," it's important to check if we can translate even three words...

 

Here is my take: разум = добродетель = счастье

 

And, btw, to your other forum discussion, these are true "equal signs", not implications.

 

 

I like both 

Логическое Мышление=моральное поведение=Счастье 

разум = добродетель = счастье

 

I wanted something short and deep just like in English. The second one is more concise. Imagine if we use it as a slogan for the Russian FDR, what will make the most sense?

 

As far as equal signs vs implications, technically it's neither. The original post I linked explained it well. The Reason is a theory. The Virtue is an action upon the theory. The Happiness is the result. Comparing it to the food metaphor: Nutritional studies = Dieting and exercising = Good health.