Conversation with my Mom

[andrew m.]

Hey everyone,

 

I'm going to jump right in. I'd like to give a little background first so you're on the same page. If anyone has time, I would really appreciate opinions on the conversation below.

 

My name is Andrew. I'm 26, and I'm a long time listener of FDR (my first post on the boards). I just started some serious self-work due to a tipping point finally being reached in my family. About three weeks ago I told them that I wanted a break. I expressed my desire to have space in order to figure things out. Without going into the full history, there's some serious emotional abuse and neglect that I feel I've been subjected to. I haven't seen them or spoken to them for about three weeks now. I've confronted my Mom in the past about these concerns I have of my childhood.

 

What I'm trying to do right now is write down every single detail I can remember about my past. I'm trying to put together a timeline of sorts containing all of the events and experiences I can remember of as a child. So a couple days ago I asked my Mom if I could pick up all of the childhood school papers / pictures she saved. I told her that it would really help me in this whole process during therapy. (I found an amazing one thank god). She told me that she would put together a box with everything and that I could pick it up today (Sunday the 19th).

 

All day today I've been a nervous wreck. And to make a long story short I decided not to go over. I couldn't do it. I just can't see her face to face yet. I'm not ready. So the below conversation is what followed through text message. (I purposely left the typos in the conversation. I felt that it would help paint a more accurate picture of my Mom. Also the lost key conversation happened through email earlier in the day). 

 

Me: "I'm sorry mom I cant make it over tonight. I have the day off tomorrow...would you mind leaving the box in the backyard or garage? I could swing over during the day and pick it up."

 

Mom: "Why can't you make it over"

 

Me: "I don't know...I guess I'm scared to..."

 

Mom: "We'll Andy that really hurts me I didn't know I scared you wow! I guess all I can say is when you get your courage back you can come over and get the stuff I put together for you this week. Come over tomorrow if you want after I get off work at 2:30 and pick it up I would like to talk. Love you mom"

 

Mom: "Did you loose all your keys can you still drive your car.? Please reply thank you"

 

Me: "Yeah I got all new keys made last week. I don't think im ready to talk face to face yet, im sorry. Would you mind leaving the box outside? I'd still like to look at the files if you don't mind."

 

Mom: "I don't know what files your talking about I put together dates on a piece of paper dates where we lived and when we lived there. Also the box of your time at meadow lake school and pictures when you were little. I'm not putting them outside it's going to snow tomorrow if you can't see me after work then you can pick the stuff up when you can you can face I'm sorry you can't even see me I love you andy."

 

Mom: "I just don't understand why your feeling this way towards me what did I do? For you to feel this way ."

 

Me: "What about putting the stuff in the garage? You usually leave that unlocked right? I really really want to look at these things. I appreciate very much that you took the time to write down dates...it would help me a lot..."

 

Me: "I don't know mom...that's what im trying to figure out in therapy right now."

 

Mom: "Sorry Andy if you want the stuff tomorrow you can get it from me I want to see you . You don't have to stay and talk. You said you would come over today well I'm going to hold you to that."

 

Me: "Ok. I'll pick up the stuff when I'm ready to talk face to face."

 

Mom: "Ok I'm sorry you feel that way about me remember you have mail to pick up to when ever your ready to see me love mom:-*"

 

 

I just can't believe that she's holding these things "hostage" in a way. I feel disgusted, completely neglected, and angry as hell. I'm starting to remember her doing this kind of thing to me when I was a kid. Ugh.

[dsayers]

Welcome to FDR. I'm really happy that you found a good therapist and are willing to share your experiences here.

 

We'll Andy that really hurts me I didn't know I scared you wow! I guess all I can say is when you get your courage back

 

For me, this really says it all. It's like walking into the room with a severed limb and all the person can focus on is how disgusted they are at the blood spilling as if that even compares to having a limb severed.

 

"Get your courage back"? Look, you're talking to somebody that were you to tell them you're scared to be in their presence, all they'd do is focus on how that makes THEM feel and (re)victimize you by making you feel as if you're a bad person. To say to such a person that you are in fact scared is VERY courageous.

 

I wouldn't recommend talking to her for as long as she's just going to use it as a way to victimize you further. That said, if you do talk again and she asks what she did, tell her to look into a mirror. She's withholding something you want to force you to do something you don't want to do.

 

For what it's worth, I am going through similar experiences to this day. I won't go into any details because it sounds like you have enough people responding to what you want to talk about with what they'd like to talk about.

[Libertarian Prepper]

I'm sorry you're going through this Andrew. It looks like she doesn't care about your needs and feelings one iota, so it's not surprising you're feeling neglected and angry, I really get that.

 

Since she's literally taking your childhood memories hostage, she is pretty much acting as a terrorist. Talk about an utter disrespect for someone's emotional needs... I would not negotiate with terrorists.

 

Perhaps you can get someone else, like a friend or other family member, to pick the box up?

[andrew m.]

Thanks for the kind words LP.

 

I would not negotiate with terrorists.

 

This really hits home. I've decided not to further pursue the box. I think your idea of having a friend pick it up is a good one. Unfortunately I don't really have anyone like this that I would feel comfortable asking. At this point I'm just going to continue doing my self-work remain distant from her.

 

Thanks again for your thoughts.

 

 

dsayers,

 

Thanks for the warm welcome.

 

"Get your courage back"? Look, you're talking to somebody that were you to tell them you're scared to be in their presence, all they'd do is focus on how that makes THEM feel and (re)victimize you by making you feel as if you're a bad person. To say to such a person that you are in fact scared is VERY courageous.

 

I really appreciate this point of view, I couldn't agree with you more. It's hard to believe that my Mom would do this to me. I've always seen her acting this way towards others, never towards me. 

 

If you have the time, I would actually really enjoy hearing your story.

[dsayers]

Sure. Rushed back story: Lots of emotional and psychological and some physical abuse as a child, poor life skills as an adult, bankruptcy, living under the roof of abusive father. This past year, I've been studying philosophy and pursuing self-knowledge which provides a new perspective on what is mostly old tricks being leveled against me in varying configurations. There was one recently that your story reminded me of.

 

My dad's house is ranch style, single story. I stay in a "wing" that was added on which is handy because it mostly means my presence doesn't disrupt their lives as this wing has it's own bathroom and the kitchen is between the two ends of the house. Shortly before xmas, they were gone for the night and I was using the opportunity to clean the house, including their bathroom. I went to go out the front door to flog the bathmats when I noticed that the deadbolt now required a key to exit, with no key readily available nearby.

 

I've been incarcerated for brief bits as a juvenile as a result of acting out to try and get others to hear of my abuse. As an adult, I've been taken into custody several times, including having full auto rifles pointed at my head for not doing anything wrong, even by their own rules. So as you can imagine, I really don't like the sensation that I am in capable of leaving somewhere. Granted, the house has a back door and this is what I use almost exclusively. Nevertheless, in the event of intruder or fire, this can be a problem, especially for them, who use that door exclusively.

 

To add to my anxiety is the fact that after I got into guns/carrying/self-defense once upon a time, he started to. We've had numerous conversations since he does defer to my being into it longer, and professionally (until it no longer suits him in the moment). He's demonstrated numerous times that he's dangerous in owning/handling a gun and that his sense of threat detection is way off. He's also demonstrated that how he aggresses against people he feels can escape him varies widely from aggression against people he feels cannot escape him. So I couldn't help wondering what he was thinking about that would lead to him choosing to take away people's ability to leave freely.

 

I called my father up to ask how can I exit the front door. His answer was, "Go out the back door." A short conversation ensued as he was at church and wished to not be disturbed for non-emergencies. When he got home, he made sure to continue the conversation, but only for the purpose of letting me know he was right and I was wrong. The conversation was littered with logical errors, universality breaks, etc that I won't go into the details of them all. The one thing he went back to every time I was able to clarify the tricks he was trying to pull, which your story reminded me of was:

 

"This really means a lot to you, doesn't it?"

 

He wasn't saying this from a, "Gosh, my son whom I claim to love is expressing a concern for something with a perceived enthusiasm, maybe I should consider it." He was saying this from a, "You're really weird and I'm concerned that you have such a fixation with what I do with my own door." I can't tell you how many times in my life he's tried to convince me that I think weird. Some of that was because I thought differently from him and some of that was because abuse he was responsible for warped my sense of well-being and safety.

 

That's not even the best part. During conversations like this (conversations where he includes me formally, but immediately removes me from the conversation in his own mind), there inevitably comes a point where I have to stop showing "resistance" or else I risk having my home taken from me. This conversation got to that point and he was standing there, thinking, not saying a word for over a minute. Usually he just leaves once he's "won." You know what he did next? He took me into the other room to show that there was a nail nearby that the key was hanging on the whole time!

 

After he spoke about how I knew he was "out for the night" and how he was at church and felt disturbed by receiving a phone call that was not an emergency (which was never a problem in the past), I couldn't help but think about how if he had just said that on the phone, he could've managed my anxiety and saved himself a lot of time. It also means that the reason he didn't was out of a sadistic desire to torture somebody he believes cannot escape him. It also means that during that minute of thought, he was actually contemplating continuing to conceal the fact that there's a key right there.

 

He tried to point out that when I'm sleeping, they can't make use of the back door. He also pointed out that it's his house, his door, his decision. The part he kept glossing over is that unlike/despite those ideas, changing the deadbolt to one that requires a key to exit (in the context of no key being present) is binding upon me. So of course I'm in a position to acknowledge it and talk about it.

 

So yeah, you're not the only person whose abuser uses "concern" as a weapon to hurt you with. Sorry for the length.

[andrew m.]

Sure. Rushed back story: Lots of emotional and psychological and some physical abuse as a child, poor life skills as an adult, bankruptcy, living under the roof of abusive father. This past year, I've been studying philosophy and pursuing self-knowledge which provides a new perspective on what is mostly old tricks being leveled against me in varying configurations. There was one recently that your story reminded me of.

 

My dad's house is ranch style, single story. I stay in a "wing" that was added on which is handy because it mostly means my presence doesn't disrupt their lives as this wing has it's own bathroom and the kitchen is between the two ends of the house. Shortly before xmas, they were gone for the night and I was using the opportunity to clean the house, including their bathroom. I went to go out the front door to flog the bathmats when I noticed that the deadbolt now required a key to exit, with no key readily available nearby.

 

I've been incarcerated for brief bits as a juvenile as a result of acting out to try and get others to hear of my abuse. As an adult, I've been taken into custody several times, including having full auto rifles pointed at my head for not doing anything wrong, even by their own rules. So as you can imagine, I really don't like the sensation that I am in capable of leaving somewhere. Granted, the house has a back door and this is what I use almost exclusively. Nevertheless, in the event of intruder or fire, this can be a problem, especially for them, who use that door exclusively.

 

To add to my anxiety is the fact that after I got into guns/carrying/self-defense once upon a time, he started to. We've had numerous conversations since he does defer to my being into it longer, and professionally (until it no longer suits him in the moment). He's demonstrated numerous times that he's dangerous in owning/handling a gun and that his sense of threat detection is way off. He's also demonstrated that how he aggresses against people he feels can escape him varies widely from aggression against people he feels cannot escape him. So I couldn't help wondering what he was thinking about that would lead to him choosing to take away people's ability to leave freely.

 

I called my father up to ask how can I exit the front door. His answer was, "Go out the back door." A short conversation ensued as he was at church and wished to not be disturbed for non-emergencies. When he got home, he made sure to continue the conversation, but only for the purpose of letting me know he was right and I was wrong. The conversation was littered with logical errors, universality breaks, etc that I won't go into the details of them all. The one thing he went back to every time I was able to clarify the tricks he was trying to pull, which your story reminded me of was:

 

"This really means a lot to you, doesn't it?"

 

He wasn't saying this from a, "Gosh, my son whom I claim to love is expressing a concern for something with a perceived enthusiasm, maybe I should consider it." He was saying this from a, "You're really weird and I'm concerned that you have such a fixation with what I do with my own door." I can't tell you how many times in my life he's tried to convince me that I think weird. Some of that was because I thought differently from him and some of that was because abuse he was responsible for warped my sense of well-being and safety.

 

That's not even the best part. During conversations like this (conversations where he includes me formally, but immediately removes me from the conversation in his own mind), there inevitably comes a point where I have to stop showing "resistance" or else I risk having my home taken from me. This conversation got to that point and he was standing there, thinking, not saying a word for over a minute. Usually he just leaves once he's "won." You know what he did next? He took me into the other room to show that there was a nail nearby that the key was hanging on the whole time!

 

After he spoke about how I knew he was "out for the night" and how he was at church and felt disturbed by receiving a phone call that was not an emergency (which was never a problem in the past), I couldn't help but think about how if he had just said that on the phone, he could've managed my anxiety and saved himself a lot of time. It also means that the reason he didn't was out of a sadistic desire to torture somebody he believes cannot escape him. It also means that during that minute of thought, he was actually contemplating continuing to conceal the fact that there's a key right there.

 

He tried to point out that when I'm sleeping, they can't make use of the back door. He also pointed out that it's his house, his door, his decision. The part he kept glossing over is that unlike/despite those ideas, changing the deadbolt to one that requires a key to exit (in the context of no key being present) is binding upon me. So of course I'm in a position to acknowledge it and talk about it.

 

So yeah, you're not the only person whose abuser uses "concern" as a weapon to hurt you with. Sorry for the length.

 

Wow what a story. Thanks a lot for sharing that dsayers.

 

One thing that really stood out to me while reading was the way your father seemed to lack empathy towards you in this situation. I know exactly how that feels and the level of frustration that arises when it happens. I'm always so frustrated with my Mom in this regard. My therapist has been really helpful so far in pointing out certain social dynamics that she engages in. It's so obvious that we can't change people, but I continously fall into that trap of thinking I can. Or maybe more precisely of hoping and dreaming of one day when she will.I feel like I want to teach her to think more logically / less with her emotions. 

 

Your story had me on the edge of my char the whole time. I can't believe the key on the nail part, that's just crazy. Did you confront him at all about that?

[sagiquarius]

Fuck. Guys, I'm awfully sorry, to say the least. Just getting a glimpse at what you're dealing with made me gringe.

 

I'm glad you guys are here, and I wish you the best for happy and fulfilling lives.

[andrew m.]

Thanks a lot Sagiquarious, I really appreciate that.

 

Ever since joining this community I've been met with nothing but empathy and respect. Thank you for that.