fabrantes Posted January 20, 2014 Posted January 20, 2014 Hi, everyone. My name is Fabiano Abrantes and I'm a father of 3 kids who recently started to learn about freedom and, sadly, how far we are getting from it here in Brazil. It all began after reading Atlas Shrugged, in 2012. Then I found the Brazilian version of the Mises Insitute (IMB) and the books and articles they host. It was on their comment section where I first "met" Stefan, actually one of his videos, then I looked for him on Youtube and I'm here after watching some of them. I have much to learn, and that's what I'm here for. Thanks for sharing your knowledge. Best Regards, Fabiano
Alex Bell Posted February 1, 2014 Posted February 1, 2014 Hello and welcome Fabrantes! I'm actually interested in some of your knowledge! I'm interested in traveling to South America, but as I already speak some Spanish, I haven't really considered visiting Brazil. Two questions if I may: 1. Have you been anywhere in SA outside of Brazil? If so, how do they compare? 2. Do many Brazilians/people in Brazil speak Spanish as well (since your surrounded by it )? Thanks for joining, I hope to see you around!
FriendlyHacker Posted February 1, 2014 Posted February 1, 2014 Olá, From where in Brazil are you from? I'm at Bauru. People in Brazil usually only speak Portuguese, you see, Fabiano is the second person in Brazil that I can spot proficiency in English writing, and I've lived here for about 30 years. Spanish is similar enough with Portuguese that people might understand you, but don't count on it because the conversation will be mostly broken.
fhamachi Posted February 1, 2014 Posted February 1, 2014 Hey, one more Brazilian here from Sao Paulo. I have been learning a lot with Stefan since 2012, but joined this forums just these days. I'm interested in discussing recent events in our country and continent concerning leftist movements. I don't know if people from outside are aware of how serious things are getting and want to hear some different opinions.
FriendlyHacker Posted February 1, 2014 Posted February 1, 2014 As far as I know, there is no leftist movement, politics in Brazil is no different than in the USA, there is no left or right, only a marginally different center. The real issue is not with left and right, people are majorly pissed off because they have been screwed over for way too long, and the world cup related corruption is like playing with matches while soaked in gasoline.
fabrantes Posted February 2, 2014 Author Posted February 2, 2014 Hello, Alex. I have never travelled to any SA country, so I'm afraid I cannot help you on your 1st question. FriendlyHacker's explanation about brazilians' language skills is very accurate. It may vary a little depending on which places you want to visit.One example is Macaé/RJ, the city I where live. It's a very peculiar city because it hosts a considerable share of Petrobras oil and gas operations. For this reason, there are a lot of oil and gas companies from from all over the world. Those companies are the best ones to work for and it attracts a lot of Brazilians (from all over the country) , who have to speak English very well in order to prosper on their jobs. Here you can find even prostitutes who can speak English very well. Another peculiar city is Buzios/RJ, a beatiful place that atracts a lot of tourists. I recomend it! I am sure that's a place which you wont have much trouble in communicating in Spanish, since a lot of argentines live there. Many of them left Argentina during the 90s crisis.Let me know whether you come to this side of the country and we can have a beer or two together.Cheers, Fabiano
fabrantes Posted February 2, 2014 Author Posted February 2, 2014 Hi, FriendlyHacker. I see Brazilian's situation in a different way. You are right about the people who are pissed off with the government, but if you dig it a little deeper, you will find the touch of damn leftist's hands everywhere.Just to write it quickly, our governemnt is getting bigger and bigger. Our economic freedom is in a dangerous levels and our president is a former gerilla head who belongs to a party that is member of "Foro de São Paulo", a ghost institution that congregates the FARC, Castro bros, Maduro and other similar rats.Do you know that Led Zeppelin's music "When the levee breaks"? It makes me think about "when the bubble bursts" and they put all the blame on the capitalism, as they usually do to get more power.I hope I'm wrong but in the meantime I'm very scared with what is happening here! Fabiano As far as I know, there is no leftist movement, politics in Brazil is no different than in the USA, there is no left or right, only a marginally different center. The real issue is not with left and right, people are majorly pissed off because they have been screwed over for way too long, and the world cup related corruption is like playing with matches while soaked in gasoline.
FriendlyHacker Posted February 2, 2014 Posted February 2, 2014 Dilma is as much of a leftist as Obama. She may say she's on the left, but her policies are decided beforehand by other people who only care about money and power, they have no political affiliation. "The president's job - and if someone sufficiently vain and stupid is picked he won't realise this - is not to wield power, but to draw attention away from it." Douglas Adams I could not care less about left or right, as I said, there is no left or right in Brazil, and if people from the "right" start wasting their energy fighting people from the "left", then they are really drawing their attention away from real the real issue. And the real issue is that people will be screwed over no matter who is in power, because the power itself is corrupt.
Mike Fleming Posted February 2, 2014 Posted February 2, 2014 Is there a property bubble in Brazil? There is a huge one here in Australia and our bank's balance sheets are so bloated that any little shock is likely to cause a financial meltdown. We have a huge government also. We are hugely dependent on China buying our resources. Is that familiar at all? There is a strong myth in our country that the nominal right are "good economic managers" which is helped along by the fact that the nominal left just happen to be in power when recessions and crises come along. They are both as incompetent as each other of course because of the failure of central planning.
fabrantes Posted February 2, 2014 Author Posted February 2, 2014 Yes, the ineffectiveness of central planning is strong on both sides. Although power (or socialism) screws people over, no matter who has it, this power is currently in the hands of the leftists (despite you think otherwise) and whoever supports their ideas, whether to make money or even due to their stupidness. Based on the "first things first" aproach, I think it's important to understand who is the enemy at the moment and what are their ideas, this will make possible to direct the attack to the (sub)intelectuals who promote it, instead of using generic speeches about freedom. Let's call it "applied freedom". I suggest the reading of Olavo de Carvalho's book "O mínimo..." (only in Portuguese). You may not aggree with some parts of his perspective, but I bet it will make you reconsider some thoughts of yours.
fhamachi Posted February 2, 2014 Posted February 2, 2014 As fabrantes said, the problem here is much worse than it looks, even for people living in here. But FriendlyHacker is right in one point. There's no Right wing party. Just left (hehe). And the ones in power now, from the Workers Party, are members of the Foro de Sao Paulo (communist organization) and so is the FARC. I understand when you say "real issue is that people will be screwed over no matter who is in power" And I agree, but right now, any kind of opposition may be valid. -- About the property bubble, some specialists say that we have one and it is about to burst. I don't understand enough to say, but I know that prices are inflated artificially because of the government's program of "credit expansion". If unemployment starts to grow, I believe we'll have a huge crisis.
FriendlyHacker Posted February 2, 2014 Posted February 2, 2014 Olavo de Carvalho? I know who he is, be careful about accepting any information at face value, please research about everything he talks about, or everything I talk about for that matter, there are a lot of people spreading misinformation out there, not because they are evil, but because they are misinformed.
fhamachi Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 We always have to take care, but Foro de Sao Paulo is real, is a well known fact by now. There are lots of information out there, including official information from the Foro. Some people still say it's conspiracy theory, though. Just one example of what these people is capable of... This video is english subbed. The suspects of the act are all from the workers party.
fhamachi Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 Olavo de Carvalho? I know who he is, be careful about accepting any information at face value, please research about everything he talks about, or everything I talk about for that matter, there are a lot of people spreading misinformation out there, not because they are evil, but because they are misinformed. by the way, what exactly have you heard about Olavo? what you think about? I've never heard a foreign talking about him. might be interesting
FriendlyHacker Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 Am not a foreigner.I've seen a few of his videos, they have a lot of misinformation and logical fallacies. It's strange that someone who seems to be scientifically inept would go about trying to prove Einstein wrong. There is nothing wrong with trying to prove Einstein wrong, but for someone who understands the underlining physics, is like watching a child play the guitar for the first time and then brag about being a better player than Eric Clapton. He's just making noise and claiming to be a symphony, that's the level of sanity you're dealing with so don't take anything at face value.
fhamachi Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 i'm sorry, i thought you were. i may have mixed up some things i know there is some confusion around his affirmations about science - i'm not scientist either, but I know he already explained some... Olavo always end up being subject on recent political discussions.. hehehe I will not deny, i believe in some of his ideas. When i first started seeing his videos i was very skeptic, but i checked some other sources that seems to agree with him and started to understand better some of his thoughts. Or at least i think i do. there are lot's of people trying to discredit him too for political reasons, and most of them are REALLY dumb. Even I would debate 'em. A good example is Vladmir Safatle, who Stefan Molyneux already destroyed once.
FriendlyHacker Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 Yes, there is confusion on some of the scientific claims that I've seen, and the confusion is in this guy being clueless about what he is talking about. He thinks that Earth is the center of the Universe, c'mom, this has been shown to be false for the first time some 3000 years ago, so his science is 3000 years behind. But given the fact that he used to be an Astrologer, there's no surprise in him not understand basic astronomy, physics or how the scientific method works. Olavo is like a guy on a wheelchair, claiming to be able to run really fast, but who somehow never noticed his legs missing and his lungs being barely functional. Even though he talks about being the fastest man ever, nobody has actually seen him running. So if he claims to understand science and doesn't. What makes you think that he's not wrong about politics, or about anything else? If someone is missing a basic reality check filter, how do you know the person is not having delusions of grandeur and carrying some gullible folks along?
fabrantes Posted February 4, 2014 Author Posted February 4, 2014 FriendlyHacker,I won't waste my time trying to show you how wrong you are about Olavo's work since you already made your mind after watching half a dozen of his videos (and maybe the ones dishonest people make to distort what he says in order to create scarecrows and make it easier to beat) and reading none of his books.There are other versions of those things you mentioned about Olavo (heliocentrism, Einsten, astrology, etc.). If you have enough goodwill to search for it, maybe you will think otherwise. If you don't, it really doesn't matter to me as people are free to say what they want, anyway they want. As I mentioned in my first message, I'm here to learn, therefore research and meditation about what I want to learn are steps I cannot neglect.
FriendlyHacker Posted February 4, 2014 Posted February 4, 2014 Post links here. Olavo has the gift of talking for 30 minutes, or writing 10 pages of text, while not saying anything. I think the gift comes from all that practice with astrology, where you try to convince the person that you can read the future, not mention anything specific, and then never actually be wrong in anything you say. If I say for instance: "The position of Mercury today indicates that you will meet a very important person." And then I can write 10 pages about why Mercury knows the future, while never being wrong or having any actual information. Because you will eventually meet a very important person, and if you die before that, the astrologer can say that person was God, or Jesus or "insert deity". So if you have a link of him explaining Einstein or the heliocentric view, where he actually says anything, please post here. Reading Olavo's work is like going around and around in circles, while never reaching anywhere. So no, I won't waste my time and money on his book, because I'm too busy reading Hawking, Klauss, Kaku, Einstein, Neil Tyson, Feynman, Dirac and etc to care about what an astrologer has to say about physics.
fabrantes Posted February 4, 2014 Author Posted February 4, 2014 It would be honest of you if you just say that you watched some of his videos and you don't like it, therefore you are not interested on his production. Instead, your presumption makes you want to go way beyond your knowledge is.I won't post any link just because you don't want to see or read anything other than what you believe already. In other words, you just want to "prove" you are right and the way you behave makes me not give a damn about trying to show you anything.
fhamachi Posted February 5, 2014 Posted February 5, 2014 He doesn't think the earth in the center of universe. Please listen to this
FriendlyHacker Posted February 10, 2014 Posted February 10, 2014 I was wrong about him believing in Geocentrism, because I had only heard that audio up to this: "The entire cosmological, anthropological, theological, etc.. views that we had of a Geocentric vision goes down... that was a total mistake, but people found the idea catchy, so catchy, that everyone believes on it (Heliocentric view) to this day." The Heliocentric view was also wrong in the sense that you put the Sun at the center of the Universe, and people who study astronomy now are well aware of it, plus we are neither at the Center of the Galaxy (good, there's a black hole there), and neither our Galaxy is at the center of the Universe. These Heliocentric ideas are 500 years old, so not sure what he means when he says that everyone believes them. Then he talks about scales: "It's all a matter of scales, if you look at the planet's scale, the Earth is at the center, from the the Star system scale, the Sun is at the Center, and etc..." Ok but that is not how Astrophysics actually look at it, and definitely anyone using GPS for navigation is not using a Geocentric based technology. Then he talks about Bohr and Heisenberg, like if their ideas are a matter of opinion, and should not believed on. Which misses the point of science, ideas are not believed on, they either work or they don't, and the fact that you're using a computer right now means that they work.
fhamachi Posted February 10, 2014 Posted February 10, 2014 Not really... If I say that the computer works because of my faith in it, doesn't mean that this is true just because the computer works. That's the point. This same guy claims that many scientific theories were proven wrong through history, although the ending result was exactly the expected. The theory was wrong, but the point that the scientist was trying to prove was right. Then later, more recent studies discovered why.
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