Yeravos Posted March 15, 2014 Posted March 15, 2014 I did it. I had the conversation for the first time in my life. ''Do you support the use of violence against me if I decide to disagree?'' After 3 hours, with a lot of distracting topics (who'd build the roads and such), to finally have him say ''Yes, I value your friendship more then my ideas of state''. Words cannot describe how uncomfortable that conversation was. A few times, I thought that this was it. This is where I will end this relationship. Damn. But it seems to have ended on a pillar of security. It was really uncomfortable and scary. But so worth it.
Magenta Posted March 15, 2014 Posted March 15, 2014 What happened immediately after that point? How did the conversation go?
Yeravos Posted March 15, 2014 Author Posted March 15, 2014 What happened immediately after that point? How did the conversation go? I shed a few tears. He said that he also had almost shed a few tears, but hadn't because he said basically that he is really good at holding back emotion. I said that I was very happy to hear him say that, and that the conversation had been really difficult for me. He said that he had gotten agitated at some point in the conversation (I didn't ask him when in the conversation, which now in hindsight could have been interesting to hear). During the conversation, he said that he had felt as if I had tried to corner him, that I was attempting to force my world view on him. But later in the call realized that I wasn't trying to do that, that rather I was asking him if he would theoretically sacrifice me for his view on the state. After he had said that he did not want me to be hurt because I was of an other opinion than he, and that people that would make my life difficult because I would not submit to their role should go to hell,he shared a few very personal things about himself to me and brought up something I had said a few weeks back that had made him upset. I apologized (because I had said something that was mean to him, which I at the time had meant as a joke, but I see now that it was a very cruel one), I shared some personal things about me, we talked a bit about other stuff for maybe an hour, and then ended the conversation (we had talked for 5 hours and it was 06.30 AM)
Swingpirate Posted March 16, 2014 Posted March 16, 2014 Congratulations, that's really, really great! I think you have probably succeeded with that conversation at least once more than I have. Given the length of the conversation, what did you feel was the turning point that really allowed him to side with you? Did you feel that your way of putting forward the argument was important or was it just a matter of time for him anyway to reach that conclusion?
dsayers Posted March 16, 2014 Posted March 16, 2014 he said that he had felt as if I had tried to corner him The whole point of the against me approach is to take the abstract out of the equation and interpret what's being talked about very literally. If somebody is used to the obfuscation, clarity will indeed feel like being pinned down. Because it is. It's very cool that he was able to be honest about his feelings.
Magenta Posted March 16, 2014 Posted March 16, 2014 he shared a few very personal things about himself to me and brought up something I had said a few weeks back that had made him upsetWould you be open to sharing more on this?
Mishelle Posted March 16, 2014 Posted March 16, 2014 Congratulations and thanks for sharing this moving account, it's very inspiring and touching. I have not been good at this in the past and your story gives me motivation to keep trying.
Yeravos Posted March 16, 2014 Author Posted March 16, 2014 Congratulations, that's really, really great! I think you have probably succeeded with that conversation at least once more than I have. Given the length of the conversation, what did you feel was the turning point that really allowed him to side with you? Did you feel that your way of putting forward the argument was important or was it just a matter of time for him anyway to reach that conclusion? Thank you! I believe that when I instead of trying to argue for a stateless society, which we got into again and again and again, I persisted near the end with the question ''Would you have someone put a gun to my head for disagreeing with you?'', not letting him off the hook. That was the most uncomfortable part of the conversation, and I think the hardest conversation I have ever had. And I could feel that it was very hard for him as well. Would you be open to sharing more on this? I am afraid not, it was an incredibly vulnerable thing for him to share (I don't think he has shared this with anyone but me), so that will stay between him and me, until the day he feels secure enough to share it with others. Congratulations and thanks for sharing this moving account, it's very inspiring and touching. I have not been good at this in the past and your story gives me motivation to keep trying. I am very happy to have motivated you, best of luck to you!
sagiquarius Posted March 17, 2014 Posted March 17, 2014 The first time I tried it went ... poorly for me. There were tears from the other person, and she backed out of the conversation quickly after that. I was also told it felt like I was being judgemental and trying to force a perspective on somebody that wasn't theirs. I'm positive I could have handled the conversation much better. I get super passionate about this stuff. I have been working on my speech and diction so as to talk more deliberately. I'm glad this difficult conversation turned out to have a positive influence on your friendship. How have things been since the conversation? I mean, relative to the state of the relationship prior to the conversation. Have either of you adjusted, or changed your positions on any particular subject?
Yeravos Posted March 20, 2014 Author Posted March 20, 2014 The first time I tried it went ... poorly for me. There were tears from the other person, and she backed out of the conversation quickly after that. I was also told it felt like I was being judgemental and trying to force a perspective on somebody that wasn't theirs. I'm positive I could have handled the conversation much better. I get super passionate about this stuff. I have been working on my speech and diction so as to talk more deliberately. I am sorry that it didn't work out for you that instance. But I am glad to hear that you have taken that uncomfortable and extremely scary conversation with your friend. That's something to be very proud of, I'd say. Good on you! I'm glad this difficult conversation turned out to have a positive influence on your friendship. How have things been since the conversation? I mean, relative to the state of the relationship prior to the conversation. Have either of you adjusted, or changed your positions on any particular subject? We havn't had time to talk about this since then. And I think he is feeling a bit down at the moment. I'll have to ask him how he is feeling when I get a chance too.
dsayers Posted March 20, 2014 Posted March 20, 2014 We havn't had time to talk about this since then. And I think he is feeling a bit down at the moment. I'll have to ask him how he is feeling when I get a chance too. Make the time please. With something as critical as what you went through, follow-up is so very important.
Yeravos Posted March 20, 2014 Author Posted March 20, 2014 Make the time please. With something as critical as what you went through, follow-up is so very important. Yes, makes sense. Thank you.
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