Hello All!

[Guest Paul D]

My name's Paul, and I live in the San Francisco bay area. 

 

First off, I want to say I'm a bit nervous about posting here because I am really socially anxious. You may or may not notice I joined the boards back in the summer of 2013 (I have had my username since then), but haven't had the courage to post until now. 

 

I first heard about Stefan back in 2011 when I watched "The Story of Your Enslavement". I have mostly been an intermittent listener until several months ago when I went to a meetup with several other listeners from the area and had really intense and open conversations with them about things like my childhood, bitcoin, anarchy, parenting, etc. It really felt different (not bad) to be able to open up to people I just met and knowing we were all pretty much in the same boat. 

 

 

Since attending that meetup, I have been listening to a lot Stefan's podcasts on self-knowledge, childhood, parenting, and women. I have also begun to look very deep into my childhood, which I find I can't really spend much time doing because it is very unpleasant for myself, but the reason I'm doing that in the first place is because I have had significant problems since graduating high school in 2011. I'm very isolated (I don't leave the house that often), and I have had a terrible time holding down a job, let alone a decent one since I don't possess any marketable skills. 

 

Anyways, I look forward to hearing from you all and participating in some of the future discussions.

 

 

-Paul 

[dsayers]

I have had significant problems since graduating high school in 2011. I'm very isolated (I don't leave the house that often), and I have had a terrible time holding down a job, let alone a decent one since I don't possess any marketable skills. 

 

I'm so sorry to read about this. I too was inflicted with government schooling only to come out the other side broken and incapable of functioning in the world on my own. It's so very sad that so many parents send their children to school thinking that they're providing them an education when in fact they're robbing them of the very life they gave them.

 

Do you still live with your parents? Do you give them credit for your current lack of marketable skills?

[Guest Paul D]

Hi dsayers, thanks for replying!

 

Yes, I still live at home, but I only live with my mother (my parents are divorced). 

 

After having given it a lot of thought these last few months, I would have to say yes, I do credit them for my lack of marketable skills. I can remember several instances where I tried to have my mother put me on independent study because a lot of the schoolwork was so easy that I didn't see the point in spending 7 hours a day, 5 days a week bored out of my mind. I even pointed out a few online academies that would have worked with me, that way she wouldn't have to stay home with me during that time, but she refused to look into any of it. 

 

On the other hand, though, I can kind of see where some of this is my fault because I didn't ignore my mom and drop out. It's also my fault for wasting so much time after high school and not having gone out and tried to acquire some job skills (except for a couple jobs I have had here and there). 

[Kevin Beal]

Welcome to the boards, Paul! Thanks for sharing

 

I'm jealous that you've been to a meetup. I haven't done that yet...

[dsayers]

On the other hand, though, I can kind of see where some of this is my fault because I didn't ignore my mom and drop out.

 

I read this like saying that if she punches you, some of it is your fault for not dodging it. If you had the choice, you wouldn't have been there and therefore couldn't have made the decision to drop out or not.

 

As for going out and getting job skills, I'm going to assume that your parents didn't model for you good negotiation skills given that you were forced to go to a school you didn't want to be at and were likely never consulted in regards to. Did they do anything to prepare you for life in the real world? Just because you can go out and get job skills doesn't mean that you wouldn't be doing so as a battle that is uphill against a couple decades of bad programming.

 

Does that make sense?

[Matt H]

Thanks for posting, Paul.

 

The fact that you attended a meetup means that you don't give yourself enough credit. There are alot of people out there who COULD NOT bring themselves to walk in to a place where they were meeting a group of strangers. It would make them physically ill, just the thought of it. I'm sure you were at least a little bit anxious as you were headed to the meeting place. But you had something in your gut that pushed you past the anxiety and overcame it. 

 

So you have two things that many people don't - the ability to push yourself outside your comfort zone, and the willingness to do so. If you care (as I'm sure you do) about bringing yourself into a new place in your life where you want to be, you have what you need to do it. 

 

If I may ask, what caused you to lose your job(s) in the past? 

[Guest Paul D]

I read this like saying that if she punches you, some of it is your fault for not dodging it. If you had the choice, you wouldn't have been there and therefore couldn't have made the decision to drop out or not.

 

As for going out and getting job skills, I'm going to assume that your parents didn't model for you good negotiation skills given that you were forced to go to a school you didn't want to be at and were likely never consulted in regards to. Did they do anything to prepare you for life in the real world? Just because you can go out and get job skills doesn't mean that you wouldn't be doing so as a battle that is uphill against a couple decades of bad programming.

 

Does that make sense?

 

That absolutely makes sense, and thank you for catching me there. I still make those kind of mistakes every now and then. 

 

But to answer your first question, no, they did little to teach me any real-world skills, especially negotiation, and so it's almost like I am someone who is trying to write a book without any language skills. My mother and father legally divorced when I was 8 years old, but during that time, and the years before that, there was constant arguing (and the occasional physical fight). 

 

And this was when they were around. They were both workaholics, especially my father who moved out for over a year when I was 4 to go pursue a job several hundred miles away, and I only remember seeing him maybe twice during that time. I don't even remember him telling me or my sister that he was moving out, he was just gone one day. My mother sometimes worked 12 hour days as well, so my relationship with her wasn't much better. 

 

Overall, I had a terrible example of how human beings should relate, and it's taken me years to realize what skills I wasn't taught that I would definitely need as an adult, and what emotional/psychological needs of mine weren't ever met. 

 

 

Thanks for posting, Paul.

 

The fact that you attended a meetup means that you don't give yourself enough credit. There are alot of people out there who COULD NOT bring themselves to walk in to a place where they were meeting a group of strangers. It would make them physically ill, just the thought of it. I'm sure you were at least a little bit anxious as you were headed to the meeting place. But you had something in your gut that pushed you past the anxiety and overcame it. 

 

So you have two things that many people don't - the ability to push yourself outside your comfort zone, and the willingness to do so. If you care (as I'm sure you do) about bringing yourself into a new place in your life where you want to be, you have what you need to do it. 

 

If I may ask, what caused you to lose your job(s) in the past? 

 

 

Thanks for replying, Matt!

 

 

One of my jobs I worked at for a little over a year (it was at an amusement park), but it was a dead-end job, and I didn't myself advancing. I quit because I got another job at a bookstore, where I stayed for another year. One of the supervisors there was verbally abusive, but he wasn't around that much for most of time I was there, so I wasn't bothered. The last couple months I worked at the bookstore, he was there a lot, and we got in an argument which upset me so much that I put in my 2 weeks notice right then and there.

 

I don't want to say what the argument was over, but whenever somebody raises their voice at me, let alone yells, I don't look at that person the same way after that. It's really hard to be around them.  

Welcome to the boards, Paul! Thanks for sharing

 

I'm jealous that you've been to a meetup. I haven't done that yet...

 

Nice to meet you, Kevin!

 

I hope to have the chance to speak with you sometime in the near future.  

[Matt H]

Fair enough. Nobody deserves to be verbally abused. Its actually pretty impressive that you had the nerve to stand up for yourself. I'm pretty sure that lots of people take verbal abuse in their jobs, and they just take it, because they'd rather take the abuse than look elsewhere. Of course, the better the job and better the company, the better the boss. Ergo, no more verbal abuse. So if you ever get lucky and find an entry level job with a tolerable boss and any chance at advancement, you'll be on your way. Easy peasy, right? Good luck. And welcome to the forum.

[dsayers]

They were both workaholics, especially my father who moved out for over a year when I was 4 to go pursue a job several hundred miles away, and I only remember seeing him maybe twice during that time. I don't even remember him telling me or my sister that he was moving out, he was just gone one day. My mother sometimes worked 12 hour days as well, so my relationship with her wasn't much better. 

 

So not only did they not nurture you which led to something you're taking responsibility for, they might have even soured you to the very idea. It could be that on a subconscious level, you equate working to neglect of human contact/nurturing.

 

Don't get me wrong. I'm certainly not trying to talk you out of working to get past all this. Just trying to help see things for what they are so that they can be processed. It's really frustrating trying to work through something without knowing what it is you're working through.

[Guest Paul D]

So not only did they not nurture you which led to something you're taking responsibility for, they might have even soured you to the very idea. It could be that on a subconscious level, you equate working to neglect of human contact/nurturing.

 

Don't get me wrong. I'm certainly not trying to talk you out of working to get past all this. Just trying to help see things for what they are so that they can be processed. It's really frustrating trying to work through something without knowing what it is you're working through.

 

That certainly is a very possible theory, and something that I haven't thought about before. 

 

I've had this feeling for a while now that my parent's constant arguing that happened when I was younger could have led to me being very sensitive to loud noises.

 

All I know is that I have made some progress as far as self-knowledge goes, but I definitely have a lot of ground I still need to cover. 

[dsayers]

I've had this feeling for a while now that my parent's constant arguing that happened when I was younger could have led to me being very sensitive to loud noises.

 

Well at the risk of projecting, allow me to share my interpretation. I too was exposed to loud fighting as a child and I too am very sensitive to noise pollution in general. In my pursuit of philosophy, psychology, and self-knowledge, I think that a lack of self-soothing is a more likely explanation in my case. Maybe it's different for you as I can certainly see the logic behind the correlation you're drawing. If you're interested in this possibility and haven't already checked it out, I'd recommend the first half of

. I think part of the reason I'm inclined to attribute my sensitivity to noise to a lack of self-soothing is that I also have trouble falling asleep and can be a bit fidgety in my waking hours.

[Erik_T]

Hi Paul -- welcome!

I live in Berkeley, so I would imagine that's close to you. I've tried to get a meetup going over the last month, but there's so few of us here, and nothing has fired. We should meet up sometime.

[Guest Paul D]

 

Well at the risk of projecting, allow me to share my interpretation. I too was exposed to loud fighting as a child and I too am very sensitive to noise pollution in general. In my pursuit of philosophy, psychology, and self-knowledge, I think that a lack of self-soothing is a more likely explanation in my case. Maybe it's different for you as I can certainly see the logic behind the correlation you're drawing. If you're interested in this possibility and haven't already checked it out, I'd recommend the first half of

. I think part of the reason I'm inclined to attribute my sensitivity to noise to a lack of self-soothing is that I also have trouble falling asleep and can be a bit fidgety in my waking hours.

 

That was a very informative video, and kind of rekindled some of my anger towards society and its treatment of trauma victims. Your correlation between lack of self-soothing and noise sensitivity definitely makes sense, and ties in a little to my thoughts on the matter. Due to my parents constant arguments, combined with their frequent absence, led to me being unable to self-soothe, and therefore whenever I am faced with pressure (be it a loud noise, somebody raising their voice, yelling, etc.) I am unable to function, and therefore I tend to distance myself from people who have a habit of raising their voice/yelling, or who I think have a high probability of doing so in the future. 

 

If you don't mind me asking, and I know we've been talking about myself a lot, but have you ever had any addictions? The reason I ask is because Stef mentions addictions to the internet, food, sex, various types of drugs, etc. Feel free to private message me on that one. You also mentioned that you have trouble falling asleep and waking up fidgety. What have your dreams been like? 

 

 

Hi Paul -- welcome!

I live in Berkeley, so I would imagine that's close to you. I've tried to get a meetup going over the last month, but there's so few of us here, and nothing has fired. We should meet up sometime.

 

Nice to meet you, Erik!

 

Yeah definitely, I'm about a 25-30 minute drive away from Berkeley. 

 

And, there are several freedomain radio meetup chapters in the bay area. There are ones in Oakland, Fremont, San Francisco, San Leandro, and Martinez, but I've only been to the one in Fremont. Which one are you a part of? 

[dsayers]

If you don't mind me asking, and I know we've been talking about myself a lot, but have you ever had any addictions? The reason I ask is because Stef mentions addictions to the internet, food, sex, various types of drugs, etc. Feel free to private message me on that one. You also mentioned that you have trouble falling asleep and waking up fidgety. What have your dreams been like? 

 

I honestly do not know how to answer the addiction question. I've drank Mountain Dew pretty regularly all of my adult life. I've allowed certain area of my life such as the opposite sex and recreational activities to occupy a greater amount of my life than I think most would consider healthy. Unless you count the aforementioned caffeine (which I don't think was started/perpetuated for that reason), I've never been chemically addicted. I had extended family that were drunks and smoked a lot, so I was turned off to those at a young age. In sixth grade, a narc cop spoke with our class. He said something like the reason he's never tried drugs even though he was preaching to us about how they're bad is because: What if he liked them? For some reason, that always resonated with me and I was never interested in trying.

 

As for dreams, I've always loved my dream life. Even when I was younger and had some horrific dreams, I enjoyed the sensory stimulus if that makes sense. Like I used to say that I'd rather have a vivid nightmare than a mundane but serene dream. I tend not to have nightmares these days, unless there's a physiological explanation such as losing circulation in a limb or being incredibly hot/cold, or indigestion. I've had lots of dreams where I'm really important and/or have super powers. Then there's dreams where I'm coupled with a female and even though the dream is usually mundane, I'm overflowing with contentedness of being in a relationship. The feeling is so intense that it has a way of making my whole day seem that much brighter despite not being real. Though in my dreams, there does tend to be me being more of a giver and less of a receiver. Which kind of makes sense since I used to do the whole white knight thing.

 

The odd thing is that in those dreams of being pair-bonded, the female is very symbolic. By that I mean that oftentimes in the dream, she will look like one person, but I can just tell it's somebody else. Both specific, be it somebody I've known or a celebrity, but never really the same people. It's kind of strange to me because when I was younger, I remember my dreams always taking place in specific places with specific people. The specific place thing persists. It's actually an amusing part of my dreams since places I'm at seem to be different elements of different places tacked together. I'm amused by them because it's mashups I don't think I'd have the imagination to piece together consciously.

[Guest Paul D]

Hi everyone,

 

 

Just wanted to thank everyone again who replied, especially dsayers for pointing out the connection between my parents lack of nurture to my current attitude towards employment. I am looking at the way I wrote some of my replies where I take responsibility for my parents not nurturing me as well my deflection of the conversation away from myself, and it really shocks me. I feel like an entirely different person wrote that, and I feel like I still have a lot to explore as far as the effects of my parents lack of nurture. How could it by any stretch of the imagination be my responsibility for my parents lack of responsibility in nurturing me? 

 

Earlier this year, I started seeking therapy, and I have had mixed results. I was able to work through a few patterns I had such as what I mentioned above, but whenever I tell the therapist about the possible connection between my lack of nurture and my problems relating to employment, they never know what to say or they say things like "I am confident you will find a career that is right for you". The past couple therapists I have seen have not been able to help me with this, and shortly thereafter I discontinue sessions with them. I haven't seen a therapist since August because I feel very frustrated with this whole process.

 

As far as my living situation goes, nothing really has changed. I don't speak to any of my family other than my mom and stepdad who I live with. I feel that I can't make that much progress in therapy being around someone like her (what I have mentioned in this post is barely the tip of the iceburg), so I am in a catch-22. I have the problems I do with finding a career which leads to me working low paying jobs that are unsustainable, and I can never be happy with the situation I am in right now living with my mom. I feel very stuck.  

 

 

If anyone would like to chime in or give their 2 cents, I am open to hearing what you have to say, but I just thought I would keep you guys updated.