Hello from Michigan

[ProfessorChaos]

Hi! I’m Erin and I’m 31, a wife, and stay-at-home-mom to a two year old. I’m an anarchist, an atheist, and I have my degree in chemistry. I love to run, sew, and read (sci-fi or non-fiction). I'm a geek.

 

A short synopsis of my life, so as not to bore you to death…

 

My mom got pregnant with me to trap my dad in a bad marriage and, after she divorced him, to rape him financially in the name of my welfare. My dad allowed my mom to verbally and physically abuse my half-sisters and myself. Our father spanked us and yelled a lot. I grew up normalizing a lot of abuse and neglect.

 

My dad died when I was in college and, a few years ago, things came to a head with my mother. I figured out what her problem was (she’s a sociopath!), and decided that she was far too toxic to remain in contact with. I’m still coming to terms with the abuse from my dad – he was always the ‘good,’ or, at least the reasonable parent, in my mind. At this point, I have mostly de-foo’d (I think that’s how it’s referred to here? Cutting the toxic family-members-of-origin out of your life?).

 

I went to therapy for a few months, but I’m not sure that my therapist was a good fit. I’d like to continue therapy, but with someone else. For now, I’m reading and journaling.

 

 

A few of my college professors (?!) really got me questioning the propaganda that I’d been swallowing my whole life, but my progress from statist to anarchist was slow (about 10 years). It started with strong objections to American foreign policy and disgust at the amount of rewritten history I had been taught. Ironically, my mother tried to get me to listen to Stefan. I was so fed up with all of her attempts to control me at that point, that I just ignored her. But, I started reading Ron Paul’s books and that led me to read Ayn Rand and George Orwell. I (re)discovered Stefan in the last year or so, and, lately, have been listening to his shows and books on a daily basis. I just took the plunge and joined the forums with the intention of learning as much as I can from a group of people who think rationally and are pursuing self-knowledge.

[dsayers]

Welcome! Whereabouts in Michigan if you don't mind me asking? I was just up in Ann Arbor this past weekend and have a buddy who lives in Canton.

 

If I may be so bold, there's one part of your intro that's missing and I must ask: Have you vowed to break the cycle of violence in raising your own child? It's certainly not too late. To that end, how much do you value self-knowledge? What about your husband?

 

As for your parents, I was in a similar boat as you. I saw one as good and the other as bad. Then as time went on, my understanding of both of them became much clearer. Both were much worse than I gave them credit for at first. One thing I wanted to share in that regard is that it's important to keep in mind that you only had the mom that you had because your dad chose that person to be your mom and vice versa. I bring this up not only to help you in your processing of it in your parents, but in the way you interact with your child.

[ProfessorChaos]

Welcome! Whereabouts in Michigan if you don't mind me asking? I was just up in Ann Arbor this past weekend and have a buddy who lives in Canton.

 

If I may be so bold, there's one part of your intro that's missing and I must ask: Have you vowed to break the cycle of violence in raising your own child? It's certainly not too late. To that end, how much do you value self-knowledge? What about your husband?

 

As for your parents, I was in a similar boat as you. I saw one as good and the other as bad. Then as time went on, my understanding of both of them became much clearer. Both were much worse than I gave them credit for at first. One thing I wanted to share in that regard is that it's important to keep in mind that you only had the mom that you had because your dad chose that person to be your mom and vice versa. I bring this up not only to help you in your processing of it in your parents, but in the way you interact with your child.

 

 

I'm just north of Grand Rapids.

 

In my anxiety about sounding like an idiot in public, I edited it out I guess... when I found out I was pregnant (like three days after I realized my mom was nuts) I knew I couldn't hurt him the way my mom had hurt me. My son is intact, breastfed, and has never been hit. I have sworn to him that he'll never have to be afraid of me for any reason. I still struggle, though, with yelling when my anxiety gets out of control and I'm severely sleep-deprived. Even though I always apologize, that guilt never leaves me because I know how much I've hurt him.

 

How much do I value self-knowledge? I'm not sure how I made it this far knowing so little about myself and why I do things, and I don't want to go any further without understanding. It's knowing that I can be better (with lots of work), that I have to be better because someone has to teach my son, that keeps me going.

 

My husband and I have been together for 15 years - you can do the math. He saved me from my FOO and has supported me in my healing process even when he was afraid I would outgrow him. I feel like he's determined to grow, himself, because he wants so badly for our family to be happy and healthy. We listen to FDR together almost every evening and he's reading Atlas Shrugged. He's still very enmeshed with his FOO, both emotionally and professionally (he'd have to give up everything except me and our son to get away from them). He still kind of identifies with his religious upbringing even though he's only chosen to go to church a handful of times in the past 5-6 years, and only for family events (weddings, funerals, etc.). He is breaking away, just slowly. He's always been the black sheep of his family, and even though he gets a lot of pressure to 'conform,' he just keeps moving further away from their influence.

 

I understand that my dad chose to be with crazy women and didn't care what it put his kids through. All of the happy memories I have of him can't hide the fact that he didn't protect us. His voice in my head is, thankfully, getting quieter every day. Like I said, I've been getting used to my mom's crazy for almost three years, but Stefan has made it clear that my dad was just as bad...that's a newer realization on my part. After my dad died, literally everyone in my FOO decided that he had been a saint and tell me so every time I see them. They all treat me like I'm some 30-something orphan who needs their guidance. Even my half-sisters, who were told "you don't choose your children, but you do choose your wife" when they wanted to be protected from my mother's abuse, have put our father on a pedestal. They cut me out of their lives after he died because my mom was harassing his widow (also a total witch) and they thought I was in on it (I was so totally clueless), and kept me away when I didn't put our father's name on my wedding invitations. Almost a decade later, after our step-mother had cut them off financially and I had stopped speaking to my mom, they started speaking to me again... and that's when I learned about all the stuff from my childhood that I had been in the dark about. Boy, did that ever shed some light on things! They live a few states away, and I went to visit them last year. As much as I want to have sisters that I am close with, I saw enough of their abusive, alcoholic mother interfering in their lives (with no resistance) to know it's just a pipe dream. I now keep all but two members of my dad's FOO on 'low contact.' My mom's FOO is full of guano-psychosis. They're all cut-off.

[dsayers]

Very inspiring to read. I thank you for sharing and for your honesty.

 

Does your husband's vestigial religious upbringing translate into passing fiction off as fact to your child? I phrase it that way because after being raised in a religious household myself and learning to critically think later, the part that angers me the most is that the things I were told as if they are true are things the people telling me had no proof for.

 

How involved is your husband in helping you with the yelling? Does he help you to identify the underlying causes? Does he help by giving mommy some downtime from the child to help manage the symptoms in the moment? These are part of the job descriptions of spouse and parent

 

I apologize if I'm coming on too strong. Sociology and developmental psychology are probably the areas of philosophy I'm drawn to the most. My former, psuedo-patriarchal white knightism has translated in trying to protect children for the purpose of ushering in a sustainable, peaceful future for the human race. What areas of philosophy are you most interested in?

[ProfessorChaos]

Thanks for being curious. You're not coming on too strong - it is a relief and a pleasure to have a real conversation where I don't feel the need to hide. Most of the people I know stick to small talk and look at me like I suddenly sprouted a second nose whenever I speak on anything of any importance. Non-conformity is considered a mental illness where I'm from.

 

We don't talk about religion much around our son. Any religious stories he's exposed to are presented as just stories that are either entertaining or there to teach a lesson. His grandparents buy him books about biblical stuff...we either don't read him the book or end the story by pointing out how big of a jerk this 'god' guy must be (i.e. Noah and the flood). Santa Claus is a guy who, a long time ago, paid the dowries of some poor girls so they could marry for love, and we give gifts in his name to commemorate such a kind gesture. We've watched the video for Monty Python's "Always Look on the Bright Side of Life," so he thinks the guy on the cross is Brian, reminding him to always look on the bright side. I told my husband about how humiliated I felt when I was the last of my friends to cling to the lie of Santa and how my parents' refusal to tell me the truth when I came to them with my doubts made me feel like a fool and like I was the dumbest, most gullible of my peers. He didn't feel that way when he found out, but he respects my experience and doesn't want our son to feel that way.

 

He helps me through my fits of anxiety. When he's home, he gives me a break and talks me through it, and I can call him when he's at work if I need to for similar support. I don't get as much me-time as I need (I'm an introvert), but I'm also bad about asking for help when I need it. He doesn't so much help me identify the underlying issues as he does validate my feelings and experiences as I ask myself questions and sort through things out loud.

 

I haven't given much thought to what aspects of philosophy interest me the most. I appreciate the question. I'll have to think about that some more. There isn't much that doesn't interest me. Right now, my focus is on learning the tools I need to pass on to my son so that he doesn't have to drift as aimlessly through life as I have.

 

If you don't mind my asking, I'm just curious whether or not you had people point out your FOO's dysfunction to you, or if it's something you realized on your own. The only person in my life who ever flat-out told me that my mom was a bad person was my stepmother, and that just made me defend my mother and excuse her actions even more vehemently. Not that it changes anything now, but I wonder if hearing it from someone I actually respected would have made more of a difference in my life. I guess I ask because Stefan recently touched on this idea that bad parents will no longer have a place to hide because he's coming after their kids with the truth, and that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy.

[dsayers]

I guess I ask because Stefan recently touched on this idea that bad parents will no longer have a place to hide because he's coming after their kids with the truth, and that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy.

 

I know exactly what you mean! I mean it quite literally when I say the single sentiment that gives me the greatest delight is that the extension of personhood to children is unstoppable. I'm reminded of a talk Larken Rose gave one time when he likened Statism to people who clung to the geocentric model of the solar system despite more and more evidence piling up to the contrary. Sure, you can kill the blasphemers at first to try and scare off the others. But the truth WILL come out and no amount of coercion can stop it in the long run. They're really one in the same.

 

I'm very glad you feel free to be yourself here. I feel the same way. It's weird too when you think about it since even though this is one corner of the internet, it's still wide open for all to see. Yet I have no reservations with being entirely frank, even about myself, even when it's something that is embarrassing or uncomfortable to talk about. It's nice to have the support, to be surrounded by people that understand that the things we do began with what was done to us, and to just know that we're not alone in these experiences.

 

I also can be reluctant to ask for help. My mother sort of encouraged self-reliance for the sake of her own ability to be lazy. Meanwhile, my father (they were divorced) tried to do everything for me rather than grooming me to be able to do things on my own. It actually led to a failure to launch that I'm suffering the effects of to this day. Was there anything in your childhood that you parents modeled for you that might make it challenging for you to ask for help from others?

 

In regards to your question, I have an analogous answer. When I was younger, I had a pet squirrel during its first year of life. As autumn approached, he became wild to the point that I had to let it go. For years after, I could pick him out from other squirrels and he'd come into my lap and eat grapes and nuts. So his growing wild had nothing to do with a general disposition towards me, just a reaction to being caged. Well that's kind of how it was for me in the deFOO road. Not that I've completely shifted just because there's some financial dependence/investment involved.

 

It wasn't a challenging transition for the most part. YEARS before I started studying philosophy, I stopped having anything to do with my mom. The way she treated my step-fathers was just awful on so many levels. Then one xmas morning, she got down on my younger brother for reacting unfavorably to a gift, then promptly turned around and yelled at my step father because a gift she got from him wasn't satisfactory. By that point, it was too much. Before that, her (very large, stereotypical redneck) extended family had all but shut me out. They were loud and obnoxious and I wasn't a country boy myself, so I didn't fit in or have any desire to conform. Then later my sister pretty much severed ties between us because of my avoiding my mother. Ironically, she went on to cut her off too.

 

My father's always been aggressive and controlling. I knew that from an early age when he'd occasionally cross the line into physical abuse. But because of the standard propaganda narrative, I always felt close to him because he's the male parent and I'm the male offspring. When FDR encouraged me to pursue self-knowledge and study philosophy, it was then that I was able to see the extent of his abuse, down to the minutia of his language patterns, etc. I was downright enraged towards him as a result, and he could sense my enormous contempt despite being completely devoid of empathy. Mainly because he's always been the "honor thy father" type, so anything short of kissing his butt is suspect. I'm exaggerating a bit, but I hope you get my point.

 

At one point, it came to a head and I tried talking to him about violence, my childhood, alternatives, etc. He wasn't the least bit curious. He made it clear he wasn't interested in me, just the effects of my labor. He also expressed his belief that aggression is part of family, violence is necessary, etc. You hear people talk about closure sometimes. Well to me, closure is just clarity. While the outcome wasn't the one I would've preferred, it was an incredible relief having that clarity. He's still in my life for reasons I can elaborate on. For now, I feel I've offered a drawn out enough response to your question

 

[EDIT]

Almost forgot something I wanted to mention in regards to you talking about Santa and your experience as a child. I'm assuming by your username that you're familiar with South Park, eh? They get a lot of things right philosophically speaking. I found the episode where they found out about the lies their parents were telling them. Can't remember if it was Santa or the easter bunny.

Edited May 2, 2014 by dsayers

[ProfessorChaos]

My mother was also incredibly lazy... and irresponsible. She wouldn't do anything around the house unless I helped, but my chores were mine alone. She had absolutely no shame when it came to asking/demanding/coercing help from someone. I also had to rely on myself because she was so, well, unreliable. My parents divorced when I was 5, so, starting very young, I had to shuffle my things back and forth every couple of days, and I'd forget stuff I'd need for school the next day. That was just tough luck at my house and I'd get punished for the bad grades for not getting my homework in on time. I always have gotten really down on myself for not being perfect at everything I do. Dad's motto was: Anything worth doing is worth doing right the first time. I like to start new projects, but I rarely finish them (after all, they'll be flawed in some way, right?). My dad was almost never on the receiving end of help, and sacrificed a lot helping his extended family and his employers. He never complained, just added to his pile of work. Smoked like a chimney. Didn't have any friends or a social life, just his extended family.

 

Yeah, I like South Park. Butters is my favorite character, maybe because his parents are oblivious to him unless it's to send him to his room for some small infraction, so I was so happy my screen name was available! I think it was the Easter bunny episode that was the best example of parents passing off fiction as fact, though there was an episode with Slash from Guns'n'Roses that touched on it, too.

 

Thanks for sharing your experiences. I think I understand your squirrel analogy. I'm so sorry that you grew up with parents like that. It sounds like you really have a great understanding of how it shaped you. I wish you all the best on this journey!

[dsayers]

Dad's motto was: Anything worth doing is worth doing right the first time.

 

Worst part about this is that he thought he was dispensing a nugget of wisdom when in fact he was warping your expectations unrealistically. Stef makes this point by referring to the very small percentage of Shakespeare's work we are familiar with today. I also like Penn & Teller's take on it: Nobody was Michael Jordan the first time they picked up a basketball. Failure is how we succeed.

[skibum]

Just wanted to chime in that I thought this was my “intro” thread because the subject is pretty much identical: I just used the postal code for Michigan instead of spelling it out haha.

 

I’m from East Lansing, and as has already been noted your story is brave and inspiring.

 

Great to know I’m not alone here in Michigan, and I wanted to chime in to note the same. Great reading what you both had to say (though I admit I needed to skip the last few posts for time constraints) and I look forward to chatting with y’all in the future--I’m almost as new to this place as you!

[ProfessorChaos]

dsayers- I watched that video of Stefan's where he talked about the greatest minds in their fields only having roughly a 10% success rate - amazing! That statistic took some serious weight off of my mind.

 

Hi, Skibum!

 

Thank you for thinking I'm brave.

 

I agree, it's nice to know there are other like-minded people who aren't too far away. Makes the world seem a little saner.

[trodas]

 

Non-conformity is considered a mental illness where I'm from.

 

The same heard mentality is present everywhere. Go on the other continent (Europe), and start asking bad questions about almost anything contraversial, point to the glaring holes on govt theories, that require magical thinking to overcome, and you will be also considered almost mentaly ill or insane...

The first call will be, that you are "conspiration theoretic", even when the first thing you do is to present a evidence.

 

The path to freedom is to stop worring what people thing is say. I say outloud even the most contraversional things and don't give rat arse about what the others think about me, when they disagree.

[ProfessorChaos]

The same heard mentality is present everywhere. Go on the other continent (Europe), and start asking bad questions about almost anything contraversial, point to the glaring holes on govt theories, that require magical thinking to overcome, and you will be also considered almost mentaly ill or insane...

The first call will be, that you are "conspiration theoretic", even when the first thing you do is to present a evidence.

 

The path to freedom is to stop worring what people thing is say. I say outloud even the most contraversional things and don't give rat arse about what the others think about me, when they disagree.

 

 

I realize that this problem is virtually everywhere. My comment was an attempt at sarcasm, meant to illustrate the anxiety I feel when I am with my real-life social circle in comparison with the relative comfort of conversing with people in this on-line community.

 

My discomfort in dealing with, let's say, my in-laws, stems from the amount of economic enmeshment I have with them. And, their history of being aggressive and vindictive. If they have a problem with what I say, it can affect my family financially. Not to say that I haven't felt them out on certain topics to see if they were at all open to discussing them. I've hit mostly brick walls. Now, I mostly keep my mouth shut around them because I know that they will not listen and that they can, and will, ruin my husband's career.

 

I do thank you for the advice, though. I am too often guilty of looking for outward sources of validation when I should trust myself more.

[Lians]

Welcome to the board!

 

Right now, my focus is on learning the tools I need to pass on to my son so that he doesn't have to drift as aimlessly through life as I have.

 

I wanted to express my admiration and appreciation for what you're doing! Your son is very fortunate to have you as a mum! Before philosophy and self-knowledge entered my life I too felt like I was fumbling around in the dark, and even though parenting, for me, is a few years into the future, the thought of bringing the missing light into the lives of my children fills me up with warm feelings. I hope you feel the same warmth! Again, thank you!