Depression as relief from anxiety

[Kevin Beal]

I have a theory of depression that I've been working with that I want to share with you. Yes, you reading this right now. This is for you

 

By depression, I do not mean sorrow or despair or dread. I mean that numbing of emotional connection, a desire for isolation esp. accompanied by apathy, lethargy and cynicism.

 

 

Some Background

 

I was chronically depressed from a young age until a couple years ago. I grew up in a very isolated and awkward, emotionally fragile household. I got bullied at school and often at home by my older sister. I was also often anxious, though rarely to the point of a panic attack.

 

I was never taught a lot of basic skills and habits as a child and my anxiety carried into my adulthood as I awkwardly bumped my way through necessary social and adult life.

 

I thought that I was pretty much doomed to a terrible life until I saw that Stef seemed genuinely happy. That was really strange and exciting for me, and I took his advice and got into therapy.

 

 

Strange Pattern

 

In therapy, I would often bring my anxieties and depression into the sessions with me (as you would expect), and I started to notice something that was very confusing for me.

 

I call it "emotional amnesia", where I would completely forget about things I was previously excited about, or I would feel depressed in the present about something and my therapist would point out that the other day, that thing brought me joy and excitement. I was surprised that I had forgotten or that it had shifted by that much, but still I was depressed about it. It was kind of strange to me, but I didn't pay it much attention because it didn't seem to change anything that I remember feeling differently before.

 

It was almost as if all my memories of my past and my hopes for the future were covered in a dark cloud. I hated everything and it was difficult to work with because I had little motivation to work through it. That was not the only reason, or the core reason I should say, as I later found out.

 

 

The Theory

 

I don't actually know that this is original to me. I probably picked it up from a bunch of different places. But what I've come to realize is that depression is an avoidance of anxiety and overwhelm. Which is why depression and anxiety are never far apart.

 

Anxiety is terrible for the body. All that cortisol in your system can really fuck things up. And that's why depression is numbing. It's feeling disconnected from yourself, from your feelings because it's just so exhausting to feel so consistently anxious for long periods. And that's why it comes with lethargy.

 

And aside from depression accompanying a lack of motivation and disappointment or dread about the future, it's also really hard to work through, because to work through it is to feel that anxiety and overwhelm again. And even if you aren't conscious of it, your body and unconscious know how bad anxiety is on the body (and the psyche for that matter).

 

Caged animals start out really anxious, being at the whim of someone as they have to suddenly cope with a small space, not understanding what's going on. And then after a while that anxiety turns into depression. The anxiety is too much that they would rather adopt a strategy that could make them much easier prey, even welcoming death.

 

 

Dealing With Depression is Important

 

Depression is not any kind of cure for anxiety, obviously. It doesn't make anxiety go away, except insofar as the circumstances triggering your anxiety go away if you isolate yourself.

 

If you are constantly bed ridden with some illness that won't go away because you keep getting exposed to the source of that illness, you are going to miss out on a lot of opportunities, not least of which: connecting with other people.

 

 

What Changes?

 

I think the most important thing that changes once you realize how depression works is that you know that you are disconnected and you can figure out why.

 

The depression blocks two important things: the good and the bad. By feeling less anxiety and stress, it comes at the cost of forgetting the things for which you can genuinely feel grateful for.

 

The solution that I've found extremely helpful is a combination of two things:

 

First, that I consider what anxious situation I am primarily avoiding so that I can do something, anything to address it. I trust that I'm not just some crazy anxious mess of a person and that my anxiety is there to inform me. And in that anxiety I've found that it can tell me a whole lot about the situation I'm in, and even how to address it.

 

Second, by remembering how far I've come, what opportunities are now available to me in my life now that I have philosophy and self knowledge. By realizing just how fortunate and lucky I am to be living in such a time as this, that I was not born in Saudi Arabia, that I'm not a dung beetle rather than a human! And it's true that it's amazing and wonderful and if you don't see it yet, you may well later.

 

I think that both are equally important things.

 

If you don't get that anxiety triggering thing out of your life, it's probably not going to go away on it's own, and if it does, it's probably not soon enough.

 

 

Motivation

 

Motivation is tricky.

 

So many people want to tell themselves lies in order to motivate themselves. That's like the entire business model for people like Deepak Chopra. It's a thriving industry selling these people lies so that they can continue to live their own dissociated "lives".

 

The temptation that I have, and has not worked out for me, is to say to myself "if I can only accomplish X, I will finally be happy", but what happens is that I accomplish X and if I feel happy about it, it's fleeting, at best. Because what's left to sustain it? It's always the next thing, and that next thing just isn't going to do it for me either. How could it?

 

I am completely unconvinced that this strategy works anymore and instead I'm convinced that (assuming I'm not some evil guy) there is enough goodness and fortune in my life (if only the potential at this point) to create and sustain some level of gratitude. I am so incredibly fucking grateful that I found philosophy, oh my god!

 

The reason I think that's important is that, in addition to being true, the stakes don't feel as high. I can make mistakes without feeling like it will mean I know nothing, or that I'm hopelessly incompetent, or that I'm a phony, or whatever other self loathing kinds of judgments about myself that I could make.

 

Thank all powerful atheismo that I am not a farmer from the 16th century, knee deep in manure, waking up before the sun comes up to do tedious manual labor for 12 hours every single day. Or being a slave, or living during the inquisition, or losing my whole family to smallpox.

 

Compared to that, my own anxieties don't seem like such a big deal.

 

Dealing with depression is dealing with anxiety, which is dealing with the circumstances in your life.

 

 

Anyway, that's what I think. What do you think? Am I totally off? Am I missing something important? Is this helpful?

[dsayers]

I'm going to be spending a great deal of time thinking about this. Primarily because I've noticed that very recently, for the first time in my life, I would describe myself as being depressed. If it makes sense, I believe it stems from avoiding my avoidance. Before I found philosophy, I had lazied my way into a relatively comfortable station in life with very little responsibility. Philosophy and self-knowledge brought me all types of clarity, freedom, and indeed responsibility. It was empowering. I was excited... and then I promply did next to nothing about it. Only now, I know how to go about escaping the abuses of others and making a life for myself. I'm simply choosing not to while feeling as if I didn't choose at all.

 

It's been pulling at me for some time now. So for what it's worth, this theory is of great value to me.

[jpahmad]

Thanks for sharing Kevin.  I have a lot to add to your theory/analysis, and some experiences of my own that could help shed light.  I too am going to mull it over for a bit and get back to you.  I'll need time to sit down at type a lot though.

 

It is very interesting that life seems to be a constant succession of chasing mirages in the distance.  When arriving at the vision, it just moves on to the horizon, and you keep going...until death.  I've thought about this a lot.  When I do get to these certain "check points" in life, I do feel a sense of accomplishment, but as you say, it's fleeting, and soon dissipates.

 

I read an interesting book called "morality" some time ago.  This was when I was in college about 15 years ago.  The last chapter had a very interesting perspective on the above human condition that I described.  I'm going to look for it and revisit what the last chapter had to say.  I will share it with you as soon as I find it.

 

Just to let you know, the pattern in my life, as far as emotional states goes, concurs with your analysis.  Depression had always seemed to follow anxiety

[PatrickC]

Great insight Kevin. I suffered from depression for decades frankly and never realised that's what it was (at the time). Too busy finding ways to avoid the anxieties of course.

[Guest Mags]

Very interesting thoughts. I will be reading over this again. I would call myself depressed all threw-out my teenage years. Back then I thought it wasn't anything serious that I couldn't muster the energy to get out of bed most times (if it wasn't for school or food). What you said about anxiety draining the body really struck a cord with me. I would stay up until 1-3am every night because I didn't want to go to sleep, then wake having school to attend. Then threw a long rabbit hole I discovered Stef roughly 3 years ago. Stef helped me understand why and how there is so much evil and disfunction in the world. With that understanding came hope. One day I realised that I wasn't all that depressed anymore, or at least I'de improved from the dark place of the past, and that Stef was the cause. Along with getting out of school. I also noticed a big change when I moved out of my parent's home. Before then I didn't even comprehend the meaning of being unfulfilled. Turns out I was that way my entire life basically. My parents did nothing to foster any self-development/improvement in me, and school kept me in stasis (along with all it's tremendous negative effects). Threw leaving home I grew so much and identified how unfulfilled I was. Now I'm butting heads with trying to improve my motivation and direction in life. I still have a lot of progress to make, but at least I can see the path now. Even if I'm having trouble walking down it.

[TheLolGuy]

Thanks for sharing Kevin! The theory makes sense to me, it being consistent with my regrettably extensive experience in this. I became gradually and almost totally isolated in my teenage years, approximately over the last 3 years of high school. High school was the most toxic environment I have ever had to exist in thus far in my life. Firstly, it was near unremittingly boring because so monotonous. Very little choice, very little individuality permitted. The mornings were grindingly slow, I would spend most of the day in a fatigued daze. Teachers were for the most part either uninspiring or terrifying, with less than a handful of exceptions. Add to that the typical group of bullies, and you have a potent recipe for the creation of social anxiety.

 

Without any substantive relationship with my parents or "friends", the only relief to be found from that world of pain and ennui, was in isolation. The popular modern day distractions, video games and the internet, are perfectly suited for this. That was the only place where I could switch off the anxiety. Social interaction was and can still be exhausting to me, because I expend so much mental energy thinking about what others might be thinking about me. My strategy in school was to attempt to disappear, to "fade into the background", as a teachers' report observed. Perceptive for a teacher, but apparently there was no will to make a serious investigation of my experience. Attention was dangerous because it often lead to some form of attack, so the only solution available to me at the time was to avoid attention.

 

But that life of isolation, junk food, video games, internet, was severely limiting because I wasn't exercising any social skills or developing and pursuing any ambitions. My sole purpose in life had become to disappear and to stay that way. When I was a young child I was implacably energetic. Always on the run, climbing trees, riding bikes with my childhood acquaintances, had an irrepressible curiosity. I was very frustrated having to sit in a classroom for so many hours. After high school, I was interested in almost nothing, I had no motivation to be active or creative, no reason to get out of bed. I was socially anxious, depressed, and in brief moments, suicidal.

 

When I think about this transformation, a flash of anger surges through my chest. To think what they took from me, what potential for happiness was tossed in the trash, less valuable to them than a piece of scrapped paper. And they called this "character building"! As if I had not any character and was yet to build one. The truth was the opposite. My character was already standing and they tore it down with all of that toxicity. "Character destroying" would be the more accurate term. Now I am in process of rebuilding. And that sense of injustice is a powerful driver for me out of the darkness of depression.

[Yeravos]

Those are some really interesting thoughts Kevin. Thank you!

 

 

My strategy in school was to attempt to disappear, to "fade into the background", as a teachers' report observed. 

 

Just wanted to mention how much this was my situation in school too. Keeping a low profile, try to show no emotion, make no sound, be invisible, hide your true self. An incredibly horrible situation to be in.

[In the belly of the beast]

Thank you Kevin, and TheLolGuy, for your detailed accounts of your experiences with depression and anxiety. 

 

Both of your accounts of severe social isolation resonated strongly with me.  I was a highly anxious boy that was put on anxiolytics for insomnia from the age of 4 onwards, and developed obsessive compulsive behaviors after the death of my grandmother at age 6.  More insomnia followed, and I was eventually put on a sedating anti-depressant/anxiolytic and Ritalin for the anxiety and a poor attention span in school (careless mistakes with long division).  These drugs continued until the age of 18, when I left for university (and had to learn basic social skills while coping with the effects of withdrawal from long-term use of Ritalin while simultaneously learning such non-attention intensive subjects as Java programming, Japanese, and the physical sciences).

 

For as long as I can remember I was completely disinterested in interacting with other children and adolescents.  I used to simply pace the playground at recess, sometimes watching the other children play as if observing a nature documentary (which it kind of was in the school environment).  I had no friends before my undergraduate years, and no girlfriends until grad school.  For the entire time in which I was growing up, I used video games, science fiction novels, and the internet as tools of isolation.  I can never remember my parents or any other members of my family talking to me about my lack of friends and absent dating life in high school.  Not coincidentally, I cannot remember ANY conversations of any importance that I ever had with my parents or other family members.  I went on to suffer two episodes of moderate depression (complete apathy, total withdrawal, impaired thinking, along with suicidal thoughts and an imagined scenario of how I would end my life without anyone being able to save me).  For a while, I was almost convinced that I had Aspergers.

 

I discovered FDR a year and a half ago, in my late twenties.  Life is getting better, although like TheLolGuy mentioned, this recovery is accompanied with significant amounts of anger at my family for their drugging and social+emotional neglect.

 

In short, Kevin, your theory of depression being a result of the body's shutdown from long-term anxiety matches my own experiences, and makes intuitive sense.

[Quadrewple]

Depression is not any kind of cure for anxiety, obviously. It doesn't make anxiety go away, except insofar as the circumstances triggering your anxiety go away if you isolate yourself.

 

Dealing with depression is dealing with anxiety, which is dealing with the circumstances in your life.

 

Anyway, that's what I think. What do you think? Am I totally off? Am I missing something important? Is this helpful?

 

I think you're right on the money.  I was severely depressed for 3+ years of my life, including the last 2 years of high school.  After I found out about FDR, it took me about a year to finally gain the courage to do therapy, and my life has been very painful since then, but also happier - because I am no longer numb.

 

There was an extended time in the therapy where I had so much pain to get off my chest and was in desperate need of validation, and my eyes hurt after every session from crying so much.  This is the HUGE hurdle that I think many people sadly never make it past even if they go as far as to get help.  It's very hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel, which is when you are pain free enough to build up the strength to start focusing on the decisions you're making.  Maybe that was just my experience though - I know that for a while therapy was the only bright spot in my week, and I would sort of ride the after-high of that therapy session until I felt enough pain to take action in changing my habits.  So I was using depression as anxiety avoidance and then therapy as anxiety avoidance (which I think at least is a step up because I was at least reaching out for connection).  It took me quite a long time to get to the point where I was ready to commit to doing therapy homework every week and not giving myself any excuses for not completing it.

 

On that note, I have something to cross off that list now which I've been putting off!  Cheers, and thanks for a great topic.

[Kevin Beal]

It's very hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel, which is when you are pain free enough to build up the strength to start focusing on the decisions you're making.

 

[...]

 

Cheers, and thanks for a great topic.

Thank you for the thoughtful reply

 

And I know what you mean about the light at the end of the tunnel. When I get especially overwhelmed in therapy with what I'm feeling (usually sorrow or longing), I ask myself if all of this work in the moment is going to pay off somehow in the future. Because if it's not going to help me in future relationships or be able to connect with someone especially deep (like a future lover), then I really don't want to suffer. It feels like I'm just being a masochist.

 

I think, ultimately, that it is worth it, and not just because I keep doing it.

 

I can't point out any clear causal connection, but I've noticed that my capacity to empathize with other people has increased, and I'm better able to differentiate what's mine and what's theirs. Because I know how tragedies are supposed to feel and when someone says something tragic without acknowledging the pain they felt (or suppress), then I know it's not mine (at least not primarily).

 

And I think that's super important, if only to lessen the chances of someone's humiliating behavior getting a hook in me and causing me to self attack. But also in connecting with other people that I find it worthwhile to work out conflicts with, so I don't get too overwhelmed with the uncertainty of things.

 

What do you do when that light goes dim? After almost 4 years of therapy, I still don't have any kind of definitive answer.

[Quadrewple]

What do you do when that light goes dim? After almost 4 years of therapy, I still don't have any kind of definitive answer.

 

When I think of the times where the light has gone dim - a couple of which unfortunately lasted over a year in which I stopped going to therapy even though I could have continued, it occured at times when I fell into the mindset that I had done enough work and was ready to "cash in" on the work I had done, and that I was "good enough" because I was no longer as miserable as I was when I started.  When I look back on what caused these thoughts, it's most likely from the people I was associated with (who were not committed to self-knowledge), and the fact that I still lived with my father who was extremely abusive and neglectful.  I think the resistance to more self-growth also stemmed from anger at how much work I had to do just to be generally in an okay mood - and to quit therapy or quit pursuing self-knowledge persistently was a way of letting my unconscious rage say "fuck you" to the voice in my head which was telling me that I still had a long way to go to reach consistent happiness and I was quitting too early.  It felt like allowing this rage to guide me gave me a sense of mastery rather than slavery - the problem was I was being a slave to my false-self's desire to stay stagnant in dysfunction, and not a slave to self-knowledge.

 

I'm using past-tence, but this is still something I am struggling with, my light just happens to not be dim at this particular time.

[Kevin Beal]

I think the resistance to more self-growth also stemmed from anger at how much work I had to do just to be generally in an okay mood - and to quit therapy or quit pursuing self-knowledge persistently was a way of letting my unconscious rage say "fuck you" to the voice in my head which was telling me that I still had a long way to go to reach consistent happiness and I was quitting too early.

This is profound and insightful. Thank you.

[Bipedal Primate]

When I think of the times where the light has gone dim - a couple of which unfortunately lasted over a year in which I stopped going to therapy even though I could have continued, it occured at times when I fell into the mindset that I had done enough work and was ready to "cash in" on the work I had done, and that I was "good enough" because I was no longer as miserable as I was when I started.  When I look back on what caused these thoughts, it's most likely from the people I was associated with (who were not committed to self-knowledge), and the fact that I still lived with my father who was extremely abusive and neglectful.  I think the resistance to more self-growth also stemmed from anger at how much work I had to do just to be generally in an okay mood - and to quit therapy or quit pursuing self-knowledge persistently was a way of letting my unconscious rage say "fuck you" to the voice in my head which was telling me that I still had a long way to go to reach consistent happiness and I was quitting too early.  It felt like allowing this rage to guide me gave me a sense of mastery rather than slavery - the problem was I was being a slave to my false-self's desire to stay stagnant in dysfunction, and not a slave to self-knowledge. I'm using past-tence, but this is still something I am struggling with, my light just happens to not be dim at this particular time.

I can absolutely relate to your post, and fyi, that was really an insightful and thoughtful description of what it is like for many people in recovery for abuse. For me, recovery is a process that is not linear. One day I might look back and think, wow, I haven't had any irrational thoughts (anxiety/depression, insert your own label) for a long time. And then the next day, I am experiencing an overload of irrational thinking and become emotionally paralyzed. This is when I have to reach for my tool box of self-soothing, I have to care for myself and this helps my brain to feel safe. For myself, no contact with active abusers in necessary for me to remain on the road to recovery. Seeing my abusers, talking to them, even a text message will trigger an unhealthy response from my brain that can last for days. I also try to stay away from anyone who exhibits aggression of any kind that makes me uncomfortable; unfortunately in a work environment it can be challenging.Thank you for you contribution to this important and meaningful conversation.

[kslik]

I think you made an accurate connection between anxiety and depression. I suffered from both my whole life and I find it runs in cycles, from feeling very anxious to feeling nothing, or caring about something that happened sooo much one day and than being indifferent the next. 

[MMX2010]

I can add something that Stefan has said multiple times: Suffering trauma cannot possibly make you feel depressed.  For if that trauma is strictly in the past, and can therefore never possibly happen again, then there's literally no reason to feel depressed about it. 

 

Trauma can only lead to depression when it's seen as a reliable indicator of the future.  "Why should I bust my ass doing anything, when those abusive assholes will just shit on it, laugh at it, ignore it, or exploit it?  Isn't it better to just do nothing, rather than work so hard when I know society is just going to tear apart and exploit everything I've worked to build?" 

 

When you agree with those two questions, you'll inevitably become depressed. 

 

But the way out of the depression is to realize that neither the abusive assholes, nor society, has even earned the right to tear apart, exploit, and permanently separate you from everything you've built. 

 

Only DEATH has that right. 

 

So when Quadrewple said, "I think the resistance to more self-growth also stemmed from anger at how much work I had to do just to be generally in an okay mood - and to quit therapy or quit pursuing self-knowledge persistently was a way of letting my unconscious rage say "fuck you" to the voice in my head which was telling me that I still had a long way to go to reach consistent happiness and I was quitting too early.", I'm not surprised that he became depressed by that line-of-thinking. 

 

But if I were lucky enough to be his therapist, I would've asked, "Why are you saying 'fuck you' to the voice in your head when you have the option to say 'fuck you' to your dad and your society - whose mutually-reinforced neglect of you put you in this position?"