Introduction and a Warning.

[MMX2010]

My name is David, and I'm 38 and have been rigorously listening to Stefan's podcasts for nine months. 

 

I just moved to Vegas to live with two people whom I thought were my friends, but it ended badly and explosively.  So now I must build my life here, from scratch, with very little support.  To make up for this lack of support, I must supply my own motivation, determination, and persistence. 

 

I've learned, through philosophy, that there are only two completely opposed ways to succeed.  The first is to provide value to others through free trade; the other is to get people to like you. 

 

Throughout our childhoods, we have been told that the only way to succeed is to get people to like you, so we cultivate "friendships" wherein we substitute our real thoughts, feelings, and ideas with carefully crafted words to make other people "happy" - which will inspire them to make us "happy" in return through identical methods. 

 

As you improve at this - (particularly if you're intelligent, perceptive, and genuinely helpful to others) - people will increasingly depend on you.  But as you explore philosophy - particularly voluntarism / free-trade - you'll discover the first way to succeed.  Consequently, you'll ask of your current relationships, "Why am I in this relationship?  What am I getting out of it?  Are the benefits I receive sufficient relative to my sacrifices?  Is it possible, or even likely, to find a more beneficial relationship?  Scariest of all, is it better for me to end this relationship - even if it means ending ALL of my relationships?  Am I willing to build my life from scratch, with what seems like nothing - and which everyone will tell you IS nothing - (just philosophy and self-motivation)?"

 

My warning is this: Even if you never overtly express these thoughts to the people who've known you the longest, they will sense that something has "shifted" within you.  They will feel you becoming stronger, braver, more curious, and more willing to assert your own needs.  But they will interpret this shift as you not "loving" them, you no longer "caring" about them, and you not having any "empathy". 

 

This will provoke such great anxiety that they will inevitably try to "win you back".  BUT because they can't earn your appreciation, devotion, respect, and attention through free-trade, they'll resort to bullying, dominance, and lying.  They simply cannot help it!

 

Philosophy will help you see the crucial moral contradiction in their demands.  This is good because it'll prevent you from submitting to them, but it's bad because once you reveal this moral contradiction you will be violently and summarily ostracized.

 

Stephan has repeatedly said, "People accuse me of trying to get FDR members to reject people.  We don't reject people.  We express the truth about ourselves and our needs, and in response people reject us."  This has never been more true for me than now. 

 

Stephan has also said, "Once you get the people out of your life who don't really appreciate you, and don't really care about you, your path will be so much clearer."  This has also never been more than for me than now.  The truth is dead simple: "Succeed now, here - or die."  And my motivation, which has always been attenuated and/or unreliable, is sky high and permanently with me. 

 

There's a beauty in facing the world with "nothing", and daring to carve your own life, your own imprint, by your own rules, despite its opposition and/or indifference to your presence.  But this beauty is not meant to be grasped by the masses, and the majority of the people whom you call your "friends" are completely unable to grasp it. 

 

So once you start this philosophical journey, you will deeply threaten the people around you - in ways you cannot predict.

 

You have been warned. 

[cynicist]

Damn, I'm really sorry to hear about that. That's a pretty scary situation to be in, assuming that you have few to no people you can rely on there. 

 

I've learned, through philosophy, that there are only two completely opposed ways to succeed.  The first is to provide value to others through free trade; the other is to get people to like you. 

 

Throughout our childhoods, we have been told that the only way to succeed is to get people to like you, so we cultivate "friendships" wherein we substitute our real thoughts, feelings, and ideas with carefully crafted words to make other people "happy" - which will inspire them to make us "happy" in return through identical methods. 

 

Careful with those euphemisms! You can get other people to like you by providing value through trade too, while manipulation is the strictly the currency of the bad and insecure.

 

Why Vegas btw?

[JamesP]

Hey, I'm really sorry to hear about your friendship situation blowing up. Looking back, were there any warning signs that things might go so badly for you? That's one hell of an investment to make, to move to a new city.

[DaVinci]

Sorry to hear about your experience with your friends. I know how you feel. I have had several relationships strained and broken in the past.

 

I would also like to know if you can look back and see any clues as to what went wrong.

[madman]

thanks David for the warning. i have to guess if you're walking the walk and applying philosophy to your life and your friends are not then you're going to find yourselves sooner or later on far different paths. this is amazing that you just posted what you did as i've been terribly afraid of this very thing happening to me. i wasn't able to admit or articulate it consciously until i read your post. wow. i always thought my friends were people who thought like me. since i've listened to fdr and taken action to know my truth i wonder how much my friends think like me vs. what i've been saying or not saying to try to "maintain" these friendships at both our expense. wow. i recently went down my short list of friends with my old therapist. steve, robyn, and tommy and tommy ain't worth a sh**. then my new therapist asked me what my old therapist was doing for me and i had to admit nothing really. robyn is on her way out and steve really annoys me as of late. all that leaves me with is my new therapist and i have to pay her to talk to me. wow. i'm about a hair away from starting from scratch. you just blew my mind. and very succinctly so i voted up your post. thanks for paving the path for my subconcious. i feel dread and excitement. g

[MMX2010]

 Careful with those euphemisms! You can get other people to like you by providing value through trade too, while manipulation is the strictly the currency of the bad and insecure.

 

Thanks. 

 

I'm a professional SAT tutor, and Nevada ranks 50th in terms of public education.  It also has the fourth largest population of school-children in the country.  If this works out, I've the potential to make a large sum of money in a short period of time. 

 

 

 

 Looking back, were there any warning signs that things might go so badly for you?

 

That's a good question. 

 

I feel like I'm "cheating" by answering it correctly, because everything became crystal clear only last night when he was venting his frustration and explaining why I could no longer live there.  But when I was deciding to move in with him, I didn't have the philosophical knowledge to see the pitfalls. 

 

The correct answer is that she is under 25, has never been to therapy, and has experienced a very terrible childhood.  I haven't taken her ACE score, but I'm guessing 5-or-higher. 

 

He married her very impulsively about four years ago, even though he has never worked out his own childhood issues. I'd guess his ACE score is 3 or less.   

 

The major red flag is that he feels it's his moral duty to provide support and guidance in the marriage, while hoping that she'll blossom into a powerfully self-motivated, accomplished woman.  But it's fairly obvious that he has only derived this sense of duty because of the way he was raised. 

 

She has never lived independently.  And she has so many triggers that cause anxiety, depression, shutting down that she finds it difficult to sustain her motivation over long periods of time.  (There's worse, but I don't want to divulge everything.) 

 

------------------------------

 

http://therationalmale.com/2011/10/12/frame/

 

He works enormously hard to manage her pain and anxiety.  But, in doing so, he has completely surrendered the frame.  Her every panic attack or anxious moment is either his fault (because he didn't anticipate what would trigger it) or someone else's fault.  And so, on the one hand, he constantly admonishes himself to "take control of the environment" so that he can take care of her.  But, on the other hand, (and perhaps subconsciously), he resents the sheer amount of work required to maintain her. 

 

When his resentment builds, his motivation sags, their collective environment gets worse, and she gets worse.  When it gets worse enough, his motivation returns, their collective environment gets better, and she gets better.  And so it cycles. 

 

On the plus side, he is in therapy.  And when he explained this all to me, about two months ago, I said, "Sounds exhausting.  You can't be free because she won't let you."  So there are seeds that are probably rattling his conscience right now. 

 

But he told me last night that he's "finished", and that he "doesn't care what I have to say anymore".  So I've (supposedly) lost all influence in his life.  We'll see, though, if those seeds I planted break through. 

 

---------------------------

 

As for me, I've never felt so motivated to succeed.  I've had so many fresh ideas to improve my business in the past twenty-four hours.  And I've been working out consistently over the past month, having experienced renewed vigor to do so today. 

 

It's all on me now, and I don't mind at all. 

wow. i'm about a hair away from starting from scratch. you just blew my mind. and very succinctly so i voted up your post. thanks for paving the path for my subconcious. i feel dread and excitement. g

 

I've been reading a lot of Manosphere literature lately, because I want to blend (to the extent that it is possible) its philosophy with Stefan's. 

 

And the three things that really moved me today were:

 

 

(1) http://www.returnofkings.com/42653/a-passage-for-trumpet-shows-the-nature-of-happiness

 

 

(2) http://www.returnofkings.com/33751/the-obsolete-man-the-death-of-the-american-mind

 

 

and this beautiful comment in response to the "Passage for Trumpet" article: 

 

"Older television shows are interesting in their approach. You'll note that this show approached Joey as if he had value and never wavered from this. Joey is a drunk who sold his only means of earning an income yet the point of the show was to prove that such a man is valuable, can be valuable.

 

An episode like this couldn't be produced today. Joey would be labeled a demon right out of the gate and if he sold his only means of support that would be the last straw. How could he pay his holy child support and all his taxes? A man today is defined by what use others have (particularly women and the state) of his resources not any inherent value he possesses as a human being. The second the man lost his ability to be used by definition he becomes worthless to today's society and of course he better produce to quota or else.

 

Its uplifting and at the same time disheartening to see the greatness of what we once were and what we've descended too. Joey gets help in this episode and not only help from above, but people, real people, put money into his hand out of pity. Today of course Joey would be condemned because those who want to take money out of him aren't getting what they consider to be enough - therefore Joey is evil. What he doesn't have to contend with is an army of people spitting on him, stealing from him, and pretending that the theft of his mind, body, spirit, and resources is moral, proper, expected, and holy which is exactly the state of men in America today. Any "absolution" by such a character today would need to include a very quick turn around culminating in him handing over a large check to the child support apparatus and tax man. Only this would "save" him in the eyes of the current society. Re-written for today, Gabriel would show him how to make enough money to double up on his alimony so as to get current - which of course is the only way of restoring his worth (what men are told today).

 

Thank GOD that heaven isn't run by such accountants. Even if we no longer here that men have any worth beyond what we can produce for our masters doesn't change the way things really are. Churches, governments, television, employers, women, our parents, our relatives, our "friends", all agree that the only value men have is what we can produce for others to consume. Evil means late or lacking payments. There is no value in what we are only what we do to allow others to live lavishly. Parasites are allowed to define what is morally right and wrong at all levels. Red pill truth means realizing that this is wrong and that every last one of them can and will likely go to hell. If you can take care of yourself fully, even if your life is modest, you are already better than any government or woman who cannot exist without parasitizing you. You are worth more than what lavishness you produce for others. That is the takeaway and would that we could see this more nowadays."

 

--------------------------

 

Ultimately, I feel like I've just been blind-sided and blasted by a force so large that the me-before-philosophy would've quickly predicted, "There's no way he can handle that.  No one could.  He's defeated." 

 

But as the dust settles, I find myself surprised, hurt, and yet not-at-all surprised.  And if the universe had an ear, or if there were a malevolent god/demon blocking my path, I would say to it - with a half-smug smile, "It'll take more than that." 

[JSDev]

Thanks for sharing and articulating something that I've been feeling as well. Really thought provoking. Good luck to you.

[gausian]

Thank you for sharing MMX2010.

For me reading your post made me very optimistic, joyful and a sense of release, a deep breath of air entered my chest.

I empathise with the difficulties you have to go throw.

I've been in a similar situation for the past year, the more I tuned with my self, the clearer my relationships become.

It's not easy to make the move of leaving what I believed to be relations but once I got the courage to do it, it felt like a heavy weight went off my back.

The more I'm clear with myself and live by philosophical principles the brighter my life become.

I would like to say to all of you who struggle, it's hard, painful, frightning but it's worth it big time.

By doing this, a new space was created for new relationships, this time I choose the ones that are honest, truthful, caring and reciprocal.

[snark]

Beautifully said. That warning applies to me as well. I personally was very suseptible to being accused of, and briefly believing, that I was unloving, uncaring, and unempathic. In fact, the accusatory language should be our first clue that a person is scrambling in response to change in their friend. Thanks for sharing, and all the best to you.

[Blackfish64]

I know how you feel.  My family doesn't care for any of my views and we don't communicate.  I have no friends... well, maybe one.  I have been living in Thailand for almost a year now, and I am finding it an eye opener.  I am forty nine years old. 

 

I've always been a loner and ambivert.  I've always been different and never did get on with other people very well.  My father and my grandmother particularly despised me and did everything they could to try and make my life miserable.  I returned the favor.  We were as opposite as night and day, save for a few peculiarities.  I've always sought solitude and spent my time with my books, writing, guitar, outdoor adventures, and playing with the ladies.  I am not outgoing and ambitious and a social climber, a planner, or anything like that.

 

I, too, started my life over in Las Vegas in 2001.  I didn't manage to build much of anything at all, but that stands to reason, as I have never really tried to build anything.  I'm a rogue, a warrior, a mercenary, a freelancer, a soldier of fortune.  Owning a lot of things and getting attached to people slows and weighs me down.  I owned a home for eight years in Las Vegas and it bored me to death, and then the housing bubble blew up and the house became just about worthless overnight, thus draining me completely financially.  It was a good time to short-sell and get out.  Which I did.  

 

I am not going to live in Las Vegas anymore. when I go back stateside.  I worked in the casinos as a blackjack dealer and security.  It is a very hostile work environment, a very authoritarian environment.  But it is kick-back city and it does have a lot of perks. 

 

There's nothing wrong with going your own way.