xavierhc97 Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 I'm having a large amount of trouble typing my thoughts and feelings let alone a friendly greeting. However I figured that I would "free-fall" write this so the quality of communication will be less than if I were to structure my writing. I do this because I am desperate to connect with people who are on the path of self-knowledge. So greetings from Australia, I am Xavier and I have been a FDR listener for approximately a year. I wish I could say: I want self-knowledge, I want to find the truth about myself and the world. But all I get when I think of what I want from this conversation when I participate, is a blankness and feelings of anxiety. However, after I type that sentence one thing comes to mind... I don't want my life to be shit. I don't know what I mean by this other than, to be healthy mentally and physically. So I have a question for you: Why Self-Knowledge? Why is it better for us to pursue self-knowledge rather than not? I can make an intellectual case from the standard of health however I don't think I believe it or understand it on a visceral level. I say that because I don't know why or if I want self-knowledge because I haven't taken it seriously before, I haven't pursued self-knowledge, not up until now perhaps. I would like to hear what you think about my post and the question above. Thank you for reading, I will see you on this thread and many other threads! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cynicist Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 That which is seen cannot be unseen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMX2010 Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 Why self-knowledge? Because I don't want to live a shitty life. So how do you define a shitty life? Xavier, please answer here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdiaz03 Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 So I have a question for you: Why Self-Knowledge?.... Without it aren't people like unmanned boats on the ocean? being pushed around by the currents and winds of history. Most boats stay afloat but many are pushed against the rocks and sink not knowing why or how. Self knowledge allows you to understand the winds and currents, it puts you in control of the rudder and sail, it provides a map. You still need to learn to sail, its not easy, it can get rough at times but at least you have a fighting chance when the hurricanes hit. Fair Winds and GodSpeed to all me hearties...Arrr! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xavierhc97 Posted September 19, 2014 Author Share Posted September 19, 2014 Without it aren't people like unmanned boats on the ocean? being pushed around by the currents and winds of history. Most boats stay afloat but many are pushed against the rocks and sink not knowing why or how. Self knowledge allows you to understand the winds and currents, it puts you in control of the rudder and sail, it provides a map. You still need to learn to sail, its not easy, it can get rough at times but at least you have a fighting chance when the hurricanes hit. Fair Winds and GodSpeed to all me heaties...Arrr! This resonates with me, I strongly agree that a degree of autonomy is what applied self-knowledge results and is intended for. To be able to survive the rocks and maybe even sail to some truly beautiful places is very exciting for me. Awesome reply and thank you, this helps me a metric frick ton! Why self-knowledge? Because I don't want to live a shitty life. So how do you define a shitty life? Xavier, please answer here. I would have said "a shitty life is one with a low relative health (mentally and physically)". In some ways that is true for me, however after reading wdiaz03s' post I change my rudimentary definition and the question. "A shitty life" is subjective because it depends on whom you ask, I don't find the pluming trade very fun at all, but others go through four years of apprenticeship for the job. In stead I want to change my statement about what I want from Freedomain Radio, I want autonomy which in turn gives me freedom in my life! The way I think I will arrive to truths about myself is to ask "why?" without conclusion. This is how I'm going to start my epic voyage of self-discovery and I believe this will take me to journaling, therapy and aboard this magnificent galleon called Freedomain Radio. I want to know how you all go about this journey, how you strive for self-knowledge and how your experience has been doing so. Thank you for the responses! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMX2010 Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 In stead I want to change my statement about what I want from Freedomain Radio, I want autonomy which in turn gives me freedom in my life! Without self-knowledge, you have no automony. When you're happy, you don't know why. When you're sad, you don't know why. When you're angry, you don't know why. I want to know how you all go about this journey, how you strive for self-knowledge and how your experience has been doing so. I haven't started therapy yet, but will do so when I'm more financially established. For now, I meditate on both Stef's podcasts and on the more consistent observations of the Manosphere. (The following authors are arranged from most important to least important: Rollo Tomassi, Krauser PUA, Mike Cernovich, Captain Capitalism.) When I've blended those authors into a coherent philosophy, I'll have a unique position on what it means to be a man, what it means to be a woman, and what choices every man must freely make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MysterionMuffles Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 Hey welcome to the boards xavier. Thanks for linking to my blog, how did you find it and FDR itself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xavierhc97 Posted September 20, 2014 Author Share Posted September 20, 2014 Hey welcome to the boards xavier. Thanks for linking to my blog, how did you find it and FDR itself? Coincidentally, I found Freedomain Radio whilst surfing YouTube (in a zombie-like fashion), now I want to change my state of nonliving. From my perspective, I was rolling around in a 5x5 metre cell until I uncovered a golden key in the dirt which unlocked the door to my illusory prison. I peaked through the crack in the door and saw the FDR community and thread that linked to your blog posts ("The Free Fall Journal" & "Save $20,000 on Therapy by Buying a $20 Journal"). I'm not sure if it was your post but it helped me a lot to find writing tolerable and now I'm starting to enjoy it, so thank you for the well written blog posts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MysterionMuffles Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 awesome thank you for taking the time to read them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Beal Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Is it Worth It? It can be distressing to witness other people who start to take the plunge into self knowledge and run away screaming. What horrors am I containing within me, ready to suck me into the abyss and implode in on myself should I keep pushing past these defenses? As I get closer to my shadow, I can feel the tremble of overwhelming torrents of emotion waiting behind the floodgates. I really don't want to take down these defenses I've spent decades erecting and reinforcing. I need the assurance that what's on the other side is worth it. Most people do not travel down the path to self knowledge and they live their lives in relative contentment, so why should I put myself through that suffering? Why can't I be like them? I know that I want a more connected, deep, fulfilling life where my decisions and goals really mean something, of course I do, but you people keep saying that I get there through self knowledge, and people have promised me things my whole life that have never come true, so why should I believe you? How is this not just one of the thousands of other "paths to enlightenment", only ever sustaining shallow idiots for a short period with pretentious and empty deepities, platitudes, bullshit? If I'm going to do this, I'm going to grill you. I need to know that you know what the hell you're talking about and are taking your own medicine. Things May Not Appear As They Seem This is where I was coming from up until recently. It sounds like you can relate. To be perfectly honest, most people who listen to the show, and even people on the boards don't take their own medicine. Don't take anyone's word on anything. This shit is very very hard, and like the Dunning-Kruger effect goes with stupid people thinking they are smart, so too do people mistakenly believe that they have self knowledge. Grill people if you need to. This Shit Sucks, Let's Be Honest The reason I keep doing it is because the idea of not doing is has exceeded the level of discomfort I feel when I do do it. And I believe that's the only way it can work. The idea that I am lying to myself, not living in line with my own values, provokes horror. I cannot continue to pretend like saying "I love you" means a goddam thing without actually treating someone in a loving manner. I cannot continue to pretend that my avoidance of confronting people is a virtue on my part. I cannot continue to pretend that the problem is me whenever I'm too afraid to challenge other people. It makes me literally nauseated. Most people it seems find ways of making it work. At the moment, I cannot. I don't believe that will change, but the ambivalence I feel sometimes makes me wonder. Intellectually, I work on self knowledge for multiple reasons: The more I'm aware, the more options I have available to me It makes me more attractive to the people I want to attract It will make me invaluable to my future family, and help me avoid taking out my history on them I can gain closure about things which have brought me much confusion and distress I can make real and impactful conversation about real things I can more easily avoid narcissists, sociopaths and emotional vampires of every kind But, my real motivations aren't always so noble. Sometimes it's just my own vanity. I envy the people who appear to understand these things better than me, and I want to be better than them. I'm never satisfied with what I've accomplished the day after it's done. And that's why I've gotten as good as I have at the things I care about most. I remain unsure that this is a bad thing. It's serious shit and it's necessary to speak frankly about it. My Advice, For What It's Worth I would have been completely hopeless without a therapist. (I lucked out and got a pretty good one.) I cannot recommend it highly enough. I desperately needed someone to make sure I wasn't completely insane as I revisited all of my core beliefs. Someone to practice being in healthy disagreement with and to help me process the overwhelming emotions I was walking blindly into. I gained a lot from talking to other people who are going through the same process. It's a relief to know that other people are like me, and if I'm lucky, are reciprocally challenging and candid as is necessary to maintain something which is so against my programming. Talking to people who actually are taking some kind of action. I want to feel uncomfortable when I'm talking to someone who's doing great work, because it tells me that I could be doing more and is motivating in that way (I'm envious). I don't trust anyone who is satisfied with their level of self knowledge. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xavierhc97 Posted September 23, 2014 Author Share Posted September 23, 2014 Is it Worth It? It can be distressing to witness other people who start to take the plunge into self knowledge and run away screaming. What horrors am I containing within me, ready to suck me into the abyss and implode in on myself should I keep pushing past these defenses? As I get closer to my shadow, I can feel the tremble of overwhelming torrents of emotion waiting behind the floodgates. I really don't want to take down these defenses I've spent decades erecting and reinforcing. I need the assurance that what's on the other side is worth it. Most people do not travel down the path to self knowledge and they live their lives in relative contentment, so why should I put myself through that suffering? Why can't I be like them? I know that I want a more connected, deep, fulfilling life where my decisions and goals really mean something, of course I do, but you people keep saying that I get there through self knowledge, and people have promised me things my whole life that have never come true, so why should I believe you? How is this not just one of the thousands of other "paths to enlightenment", only ever sustaining shallow idiots for a short period with pretentious and empty deepities, platitudes, bullshit? If I'm going to do this, I'm going to grill you. I need to know that you know what the hell you're talking about and are taking your own medicine. Things May Not Appear As They Seem This is where I was coming from up until recently. It sounds like you can relate. To be perfectly honest, most people who listen to the show, and even people on the boards don't take their own medicine. Don't take anyone's word on anything. This shit is very very hard, and like the Dunning-Kruger effect goes with stupid people thinking they are smart, so too do people mistakenly believe that they have self knowledge. Grill people if you need to. This Shit Sucks, Let's Be Honest The reason I keep doing it is because the idea of not doing is has exceeded the level of discomfort I feel when I do do it. And I believe that's the only way it can work. The idea that I am lying to myself, not living in line with my own values, provokes horror. I cannot continue to pretend like saying "I love you" means a goddam thing without actually treating someone in a loving manner. I cannot continue to pretend that my avoidance of confronting people is a virtue on my part. I cannot continue to pretend that the problem is me whenever I'm too afraid to challenge other people. It makes me literally nauseated. Most people it seems find ways of making it work. At the moment, I cannot. I don't believe that will change, but the ambivalence I feel sometimes makes me wonder. Intellectually, I work on self knowledge for multiple reasons: The more I'm aware, the more options I have available to me It makes me more attractive to the people I want to attract It will make me invaluable to my future family, and help me avoid taking out my history on them I can gain closure about things which have brought me much confusion and distress I can make real and impactful conversation about real things I can more easily avoid narcissists, sociopaths and emotional vampires of every kind But, my real motivations aren't always so noble. Sometimes it's just my own vanity. I envy the people who appear to understand these things better than me, and I want to be better than them. I'm never satisfied with what I've accomplished the day after it's done. And that's why I've gotten as good as I have at the things I care about most. I remain unsure that this is a bad thing. It's serious shit and it's necessary to speak frankly about it. My Advice, For What It's Worth I would have been completely hopeless without a therapist. (I lucked out and got a pretty good one.) I cannot recommend it highly enough. I desperately needed someone to make sure I wasn't completely insane as I revisited all of my core beliefs. Someone to practice being in healthy disagreement with and to help me process the overwhelming emotions I was walking blindly into. I gained a lot from talking to other people who are going through the same process. It's a relief to know that other people are like me, and if I'm lucky, are reciprocally challenging and candid as is necessary to maintain something which is so against my programming. Talking to people who actually are taking some kind of action. I want to feel uncomfortable when I'm talking to someone who's doing great work, because it tells me that I could be doing more and is motivating in that way (I'm envious). I don't trust anyone who is satisfied with their level of self knowledge. After reading this, a feeling has settled deep in my stomach, it's sickening feeling, one of terror. I think it is because I'm not living my values to be painfully honest, I'm avoiding something when I listen FDR podcasts and even when I post on this forum. Fundamentally I don't follow the ethos of Freedomain Radio and philosophy its' self; the truth. What I have wrote on these forums as of now has been more authentic than anything I have ever done however that's not saying much. I want to apologize for being some-what fake during my short time here on the forums but it extends farther than that... I feel as if I'm being driven rock bottom as a pressure builds when I participate in the FDR conversation. I don't think I have ever truly thought or meditated about anything Stefan Molyneux has said about self-knowledge, I understand that is a massive insult to him so apologies. This is what I mean by "I don't live my values", however I consider them mine as a warlord (or political leader) would claim a country as their land! I question even if these are my values and not just inherited from a bias I have for FDR. Truly, thank you for the reply and please do so again soon. I think I'm getting closer. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Green Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 So I have a question for you: Why Self-Knowledge? Work to increase your self knowledge if you would like your current situation to be different than it is. an alternative question which should maybe get just as much consideration if considerations are to be had, is "why stay the same?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MysterionMuffles Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 The reason I keep doing it is because the idea of not doing is has exceeded the level of discomfort I feel when I do do it. And I believe that's the only way it can work. Yes! I love this line alone. It's something I've learned recently. There are days where confronting my demons hurts more than I think I can handle, but then I remember what it's like to have them in control of me. It's just not what I want anymore. That hurts so much more than the growing pains. After reading this, a feeling has settled deep in my stomach, it's sickening feeling, one of terror. I think it is because I'm not living my values to be painfully honest, I'm avoiding something when I listen FDR podcasts and even when I post on this forum. Fundamentally I don't follow the ethos of Freedomain Radio and philosophy its' self; the truth. What I have wrote on these forums as of now has been more authentic than anything I have ever done however that's not saying much. I want to apologize for being some-what fake during my short time here on the forums but it extends farther than that... I feel as if I'm being driven rock bottom as a pressure builds when I participate in the FDR conversation. I don't think I have ever truly thought or meditated about anything Stefan Molyneux has said about self-knowledge, I understand that is a massive insult to him so apologies. This is what I mean by "I don't live my values", however I consider them mine as a warlord (or political leader) would claim a country as their land! I question even if these are my values and not just inherited from a bias I have for FDR. Truly, thank you for the reply and please do so again soon. I think I'm getting closer. That pain is there to guide you. Embrace it. Don't get too hard on yourself for not living your values. Just kno that that sickening terror is a stark contrastor to what it's like to stay on the other side of self-knowledge. You're only gonna get more authentic with the humility you've displayed so far, but don't expect it to happen all at once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Beal Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 After reading this, a feeling has settled deep in my stomach, it's sickening feeling, one of terror. I think it is because I'm not living my values to be painfully honest, I'm avoiding something when I listen FDR podcasts and even when I post on this forum. Self knowledge is a strange thing. In a way, you could argue that we all already know everything. If it's true that your terror is telling you that you need to work more toward living your own values, then that's a very insightful and deep realization. And my intention is to try and sober people, since there is a lot of talk about how great it is to have self knowledge and how you become like a superhero of insight and empathy. I actually think that's true, also. I've gained an enormous amount from the work that I've done, but I've noticed a pattern of people starting their journey not very prepared, and when they get overwhelmed they bail. That's incredibly disappointing to watch over and over again, so I just want to help set the tone for how to talk about these things, so that people get that it's not all sunshine and roses. And I'm sure that you already knew that, and that in a way, this is probably not news to you, but I've decided to be a cold bucket of water to the face because I'm just a jerk like that. But I've noticed a huge difference in my life as a result of the work that I've done: - I'm much more socially confident and make conversation with anyone I want to. (I used to be incredibly socially anxious.) - I am much more assertive when people try and violate my boundaries - I'm better at giving uncomfortable feedback and accepting criticism - I have a much clearer picture of what my values actually are - I'm more vulnerable with people I trust - I cry now, during like any movie - I have a much closer relationship with what my body and the different parts of me are trying to tell me - When I do get depressed, I have a desire to revisit my values and the way I'm spending my time, rather than deciding that nothing matters and losing all motivation Others have reported the same sorts of things to me. The feeling of connection is a real rush, too, which I've come to crave, not as a wound longing for completion, but as something really enjoyable and motivating. My advice, on top of what I've already said, would be to revisit your values. It's not going to be very motivating living somebody else's values, right? That would feel to me like finishing homework, or some tedious but ostensibly necessary task, because someone else said so. You can grill me if you like. Make sure that my advice is good. Make sure that I am more fulfilled now as a result of it. But I'm curious. Are you prompted to action? Or is does it feel like too much? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurtis Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 That pain is there to guide you. Hello Xavier, thank you for being vulnerable. I can't add much beyond all the wonderful things Kevin has said already, but one thing came to mind when you described the terror/anxiety in your gut, and perhaps it may be of help to you. I had known I needed therapy for years before I found FDR, but what I have learned here enabled me to finally take action in my desired healing and journey of self knowledge. I found an amazing therapist who, among other things, is trained in 'somatic experiencing'. This work focuses on your body sensations. My anxiety and fears would mostly present as these terrible feelings in my chest, and sometimes stomach. After a lot of work, I was able to get at the roots of these physical sensations and learn that they were protective mechanisms that my body/subconscious were using to tell my conscious self of very serious dangers in my life (mainly my parents and unprocessed trauma from my childhood). The work in therapy, FDR, journalling, dream interpretation, deFOO'ing etc has brought me to where I am today: freedom from these fears and anxiety, and in their place is a warm feeling of freedom, love, and happiness. That to me is worth all the struggles and sacrifices that were required in my journey of self knowledge. Like others have said, you gain greater control of your life. You can't undo the past, but you can change the future. Best of luck and I hope you keep at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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