Greetings from Holland

[Dragomira]

Hello everyone, 

 

I am a 21-year old female student, currently doing the first year of my master Biomedical Sciences in Leiden, Holland. This study mainly focuses on training researchers in the ways of researching the human body in health and disease. My personal interest in this field is tumor immunology, mainly the cellular side of the interaction. 

I cannot say I had a great interest in philosophy before I was introduced to it by Stefan. At my highschool philosophy was offered as a course, but it only taught the opinions of past philosophers from what I heard of my fellow students, not how to think of these topics yourself. I did not myself attend this course. 

During my bachelor, a 3-week course of scientific philosophy (wetenschapsfilosofie) was offered, but this was, again, repeating what the teacher taught us and some history on the scientific method.

When I watched the Youtube playlist 'Introduction to philosophy' and started listening to the podcasts (from the start, I am now at podcast 493), I fell in love with the way of thinking and the application of it to a broad range of topics. I came across freedomainradio in January of this year and have not stopped listening and reading since. 

Currently, I am doing an internship with a research group in the LUMC (Leiden Univerisity Medical Center) and have a lot of not quite mentally intensive tasks. During this time I like to listen to the podcasts (up to 6 hours a day, roughly).

Where before I thought absolutes only existed in science, I now know that the same methodology can be applied to really anything. For the first time I can think clearly, but I also immediately felt like anything I thought I knew was not based on truth, but on illusions.

The past three months have been quite an emotional rollercoaster, following along with the first podcasts. Starting at anger for our 'beloved' democracy, to almost hatred for my parents for being so limited in their thinking. I could not watch the news or read newspapers due to my anger at the blindness to the immorality of it all. It seemed like everything I heard about governments was confirming what I already knew, yet no one seemed to take this evidence to its logical conclusion, even the researchers at the department were I work. After reading Real-Time Relationships I realize that they simply cannot do this. My anger has subsided and I now feel a great need and enthousiasm to talk to my family and test whether my theories hold true and if they could be persuaded by rationality. I know I must do this a gently as possible, but I feel that my family does not fear me (yet) (I have had some good conversations with some of them). I feel I must be patient with them and not to threaten them with my own way of thinking before I understand how they think. I hope I can 'plant some seeds of philosophy', if anything. Since podcast 468 I realize how different I am from those around me and that I must recognize this difference to be able to communicate with them succesfully. 

Sorry for this rambling, but I felt I needed to get this off my chest. I hope to be able to contribute to this board and imagine I will learn a great deal by doing so in the presence of likeminded people. 

As a poor student, I cannot contribute financially to the show, but I hope to be able to do so by spreading it, for starters among my fellow researchers, collegues and family. 

 

 

 

[Withanametocome]

 

Sorry for this rambling

 

 

 

If it's properly structured it's not a rambling, methinks.

 

Anyway: welcome! And if I were you I would keep in mind, while talking to your family, that it took you ca. 500 podcasts to mould the idea of raising these issues with them and that, thus, they may need some digestion time as well.

 

And if I were you I would also keep in mind, after having approached them, that it took you ca. 500 podcasts to realize the importance of these ideas and that, thus, your family shan't either take forever to (re)make their minds.

 

And be sincere with yourself if the replies you get aren't the ones you'd wish for: we all want the tumor to receed but that doesn't always happen.

 

Goedenacht!

 

 

[Laforge]

Yep it can be frustrating to try to make people think. Consider that your energy may be wasted if they don't even become curious.

Anyway i'm also controlled by the dutch state (yey!), so: welkom.

[Dragomira]

Thanks for the advise!

I have considered that my attempts to get my family to become curious may not result in any changes in their behavior. If this is so, it will be a lesson for me. In science, a negative results is still a result. I have heard Stefan say many times that the odds of them actually changing are slim, but that the attempt is still worthwhile. Even though I fear that they will not change, I want the certainty of actually experiencing it for myself, so that I can move on in peace if necessary. If they do change their minds, I feel it will improve their lives and increase our happiness. In that sense, I have nothing to lose.

[Tomas van de Wiel]

Welcome! (although I'm a bit late).
I got curious when I saw "Holland" in the title, I haven't met many people in the community who live here. It's also a joy to see someone join close to my age I admire your courage to find out if it is possible to get your family curious about it and to talk openly about it. It reminds me of my journey starting from when i really understood RTR and just went for it all the way. Your last message very much resonates with how i felt before i found out the truth.

I think I'll send you a message, I'm curious to know how it went so far.
Hope to see you around here soon!

[SigmaTau]

Leiden, nice city, I lived there for 2 years. Welcome.

[Laforge]

http://ancapistan.com update >1500 markers!

 

 

It’s pretty much a map with Ancaps/voluntaryists/libertarians. And more are adding their marker every day, check it out if you're new.

 

[Zelenn]

It's worth it to see if your family changes their minds. Mine have. My parents anyway. And my Uncle who is raising his son using peaceful parenting methods.

 

Its a work in progress and they don't watch the show and they still hold mixed, contradictory ideas, but slowly I've been having these conversations with them and when I point out these contradictions to them and make arguments against the State or dependancy, they see sense.

 

My father was a cop for the longest time and he and I will sit down over a cup of coffee and have these 2 hour chats about the State and the validity of law and the use of violence against non violent people etc. We'll also talk about child abuse and violence. He was MASSIVELY abused by his father and, greatfully, he passed "almost" none of that on to me. I was spanked a few times and my father can be a bit careless with his words, but given the model of parenting that his parents showed him (his father literally shot one of his sons with a crossbow) and the fact that my father has not treated me like that at all (and infact prevented me from ever meeting my bio grandfather) combined with that fact that my father does change his behavior in response to our conversations, its pretty clear that my father is trying and he is learning.

 

Will he ever be a philosopher? Probably not. Will he ever be rid of his tendancy towards anger and frustration? Probably not. It's been 50 years of behaving that way. But I can say that my father is a brighter and more optimistic person than he was even 2 years ago. He moved away from his mother and brothers (negative, violent people) and moved to different state, because of an argument I made. He and my mother have reduced their alcohol use and improved their health, because of a conversation we've had. My father governs his temper better and speaks to me with more respect, because of a conversation we've had. He and my mother fully understand that our relationship is voluntary and that my respect and friendship have to be earned by their behavior and emotional availability.

 

As such, my parents, particularly my father, have become better people to talk to about my life. They hear me and let me speak. And I can be honest with them and tell them when I feel I've been treated unfairly. That was not possible before we started having these conversations; they were very passive aggressive, but weren't aware till I pointed it out openly, in clear terms.

 

So it is possible that your parent's and family will come around. It probably WON'T be all at once, the conversations WILL be uncomfortable, and they may not be consistent about their change. There may always remain parts of them that won't be philosophical. After all, 50 years is a long time to be a certain way. I think there are ways in which a person can be damaged and they never really recover.

 

But as long as the growth is there, I think we should have compassion for our families. Perfection is an impossible standard to live up to and our relationships will be doomed if we demand too much from them. It'd be like asking a new weightlifter to bench press twice his bodyweight after the 2nd day, hell after the first year that would still be quite a feat.

 

Be patient, continue to study and learn and grow, and keep having this conversation.

 

Welcome to the forum.

http://ancapistan.com update >1500 markers!

 

 

It’s pretty much a map with Ancaps/voluntaryists/libertarians. And more are adding their marker every day, check it out if you're new.

I just added myself to the Ancapistan map. I can be found in Bradenton FL and my entry has my skype name. :-)

[Torero]

Welkom Dragomira,

 

nice to see more Dutch people signing on.

 

Just a suggestion; try to leave anger behind and focus on optimism, engaging your fellow students of the oldest university of Holland in challenging their world views like you so bravely did.

 

The optimism and positive attitude both of Stefan and of libertarianism/anarchism in general work so much better to convince people than anger or negativism.

 

I feel sorry for you (still) having to live under the superstatism of the Brussels Bastards. But seeing the studies you picked in university, I have also high hopes that you are able to leave it (if you want of course) behind and look for more profitable societies, which are not stealing 59% of your money.... I can only recommend a path into the wide world.

 

All the best en nogmaals welkom,

 

Torero

 

PS: Thanks Laforge, I didn't know that site. I've added myself to the map, see flag for location.

 

Only 3 (including me) anarchists/libertarians in a city of 9+ million people... that needs to grow a bit....