Hello from England

[Troubador]

A big hello from England! I've poked about on YouTube and saw some of Stefan's videos and I was particularly impressed with ones where he was helping callers work through personal issues.

 

A little bit of googling led me here, so I figured I'd dip my toes in the philosophical waters and sign up. I'm keen to learn about this peaceful parenting approach as I'm a father to a little one as well. I'd not heard of peaceful parenting until I came here, and I'll be sure to have a read round on it whilst I'm here.

 

One disclaimer I would rather state up front as I was not aware until I came here it appears as though there is a strong atheistic tradition here. As a man of certain religious/spiritual beliefs myself I would feel I was being dishonest if I didn't own that upfront.

 

That said I cannot stress enough I am here for the philosophy not to espouse any particular religion. I read the sticky Stefan posted above to religious types like myself (although some of the links do not appear to lead anywhere anymore) You will find no argument from me that religions have been responsible for untold human misery and suffering, and regrettably continue to be so.

 

I look foward to spending some time here I suspect it will be an illuminating place.

[xyz]

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[Frederik]

Sounds good. Welcome on board!

[Matt D]

Welcome from across the pond! 

 

One disclaimer I would rather state up front as I was not aware until I came here it appears as though there is a strong atheistic tradition here. As a man of certain religious/spiritual beliefs myself I would feel I was being dishonest if I didn't own that upfront.

That said I cannot stress enough I am here for the philosophy not to espouse any particular religion. I read the sticky Stefan posted above to religious types like myself (although some of the links do not appear to lead anywhere anymore) You will find no argument from me that religions have been responsible for untold human misery and suffering, and regrettably continue to be so.

I look foward to spending some time here I suspect it will be an illuminating place.

 

It's true, you will find I think that most in this community do not believe in a deity. But you might be surprised if you asked people about the importance of spirituality in their lives.

[Troubador]

Thanks for the welcome! I brought up religion because a dear friend is an atheist and we discuss philosophy and well pretty much everything, so I am cognizant of the contemporary landscape.

 

In lots of ways I'm inclined to align with the secularists. I am only about halfway through the book Universally Preferred Behaviour, which I am obviously still digesting, but I do agree with two crucial suppositions in it (assuming my comprehension is up to snuff):

 

- Ethics/Morality are not nor should they be the exclusive province of any religion/spiritual practice/ or political (state) ideology. This is self evident from the fact there are ethical atheists and unethical religious practitioners, and also if one examines Taoism (I'm not a practicing Taoist by the way but I confess to finding the Tao Te Ching beautiful) which can be either a philosophical or spiritual practice or both.

 

- The difference to us as a species cannot be overstated if a reproducible and objective ethical framework can be found. I am not saying UFB succeeds or fails in this, but even if it turns out it doesn't I hope Stefan and indeed this community keep working toward it. I have the utmost respect and admiration for what is being attempted.

[Matt D]

Thanks for the welcome! I brought up religion because a dear friend is an atheist and we discuss philosophy and well pretty much everything, so I am cognizant of the contemporary landscape.

 

In lots of ways I'm inclined to align with the secularists. I am only about halfway through the book Universally Preferred Behaviour, which I am obviously still digesting, but I do agree with two crucial suppositions in it (assuming my comprehension is up to snuff):

 

- Ethics/Morality are not nor should they be the exclusive province of any religion/spiritual practice/ or political (state) ideology. This is self evident from the fact there are ethical atheists and unethical religious practitioners, and also if one examines Taoism (I'm not a practicing Taoist by the way but I confess to finding the Tao Te Ching beautiful) which can be either a philosophical or spiritual practice or both.

 

- The difference to us as a species cannot be overstated if a reproducible and objective ethical framework can be found. I am not saying UFB succeeds or fails in this, but even if it turns out it doesn't I hope Stefan and indeed this community keep working toward it. I have the utmost respect and admiration for what is being attempted.

 

So far no one that I know has been able to poke a hole in UPB. It's probably because in order to do so you would have to use UPB! Wouldn't it be great if we had a logical framework to look to for ethics rather than God or state rulers, the latter of whom will twist the former any chance they get?

 

But UPB is not exactly new, either. One of my favorite quotes comes out of Christian theology in St. Augustine's City of God:

 

"Remove justice, and what are kingdoms but gangs of criminals on a large scale?  What are criminal gangs but petty kingdoms? A gang is a group of men under the command of a leader, bound by a compact of association, in which the plunder is divided according to an agreed convention.

If this villainy wins so many recruits from the ranks of the demoralized that it acquires territory, establishes a base, captures cities and subdues peoples, it then openly arrogates to itself the title of kingdom, which is conferred on it in the eyes of the world, not by the renouncing of aggression but by the attainment of impunity.

For it was a witty and truthful rejoinder which was given by a captured pirate to Alexander the Great.  The king asked the fellow, “What is your idea, in infesting the sea?”  And the pirate answered, with uninhibited insolence, “The same as yours, in infesting the earth!  But because I do it with a tiny craft, I’m called a pirate; because you have a mighty navy, you’re called an emperor.”

St. Augustine, Concerning the City of God Against the Pagans (H. Bettenson, Tr.), Book IV, Ch. 4.

[Troubador]

Well I guess it depends on what causes someone to poke holes in the first place. Without having read the book in its entirety I do feel safe in venturing that it is a success in that it obviously works for some of the community here. The proof that is most interesting is if it works when rolled out across all of humanity, but even if it doesn't it doesn't mean it does not have value.

 

That may be intellectually unsatisfying in that it's stated goal is to provide that complete rational framework for ethics, but I would contend that if it makes thousands of people consider the ideas of ethics, and aspire to live more virtuously then something has gone right somewhere.

 

As is written in statements attributed to Socrates even if a Utopian ideal is impossible there is still benefit to be gained in trying to work towards one. So what ever else it should be respected that it is being attempted at all.

 

Thank you for the quotation, it is not one I am familiar with.