Yes, I'm a Cop

[TheFuzz]

I'm sure there's not too many law enforcement on this page, especially since the profession has been dumbed down over the years. I've listened/watched for about a year now and I'm interested in a lot more discussions about real issues. As a police officer, I get to deal with the reality that there are unjust laws that I am almost made to enforce, or my career is over. I have contemplated leaving, but if I leave, I know I will be replaced with a millenial that is incapable of thinking for himself. Another reason I stay is the fact that I get to train new officers on a regular basis. This enables me to steer them towards more liberty oriented policing (baby steps, I know, but the more officers I influence, the better chance we have). This means I might have to take someone to jail for marijuana, prostitution, or another victimless crime. I'm looking forward to learn and discuss!

[Sashajade]

 Wow! I didn't think enlightened cops existed That is so cool. Hope to see more posts from you and hear about your insights. 

[Lens]

Thank you very much for your post it is very encouraging to see policemen as aware persons and so sorry that you have do things that are against your values. Your work place is like many work places full of abuse and arrogance. The whole society is just like your work place and many other work places. I also hope that you will intervene also in favour of protecting children when you see them being abused in public. Best of luck!! 

[TheFuzz]

I'll admit, I'm not fully sold on peaceful parenting, but I'm still researching. That being said, in my household, spanking rarely happens (maybe once or twice a year for egregious offenses). Now as for stopping kids from spanking children in public, its still legal in my state. You can even use an object (such as a switch, wooden spoon, belt, etc) as long as it doesn't leave marks. I do inform parents, however, if they're going to spank, its best to do so with an open hand on a clothed bottom.

 

As for compromising my values at work, its a basic cost benefit analysis: does my ability to influence a new generation of officers to a more liberty oriented police style outweigh having to arrest someone for marijuana a few times a year. Short term it doesn't, long term it does....lots of gray areas in my line of work. I believe I can do more good by staying, than leaving the profession. 

[Molly]

I am married to a cop.  I too struggle with the issues you stated as it relates to myself and his job.  My husband is an empathetic, fair, educated person (with some childhood trauma too, let's be honest) who got onto the force as a young man because he felt a calling to "help people".  The sad reality is those traits that make him such a good cop are causing him to be eaten alive on the streets.  He's had major injuries, surgery, PTSD, nightmares, sleep deprivation... I want him to leave so badly but I can't seem to convince him yet that he'd be successful at something else.  And yes, it would be one less "good cop" on the streets.  

 

I don't know if the system can be changed from within, I am losing hope on that front.  As you know the culture is so insular and one-sided in many ways and fears outsiders; and for good reason too sometimes as a means of self protection.  You have a union, politicians, and media which all set the narrative too.  Do you feel like you are making a difference with training new officers? If so, I'd love to hear a silver lining.

[jpahmad]

Wow!  Welcome. You've just made my day with your post.

[Anuojat]

My hands are shaking as i type. I am so happy that someone, you even in the position that you are could overcome the MASSIVE pile of barriers there are for reason, curiousity and emphaty for other and for your own principles.

 

THANK YOU.

[Carl Green]

As a police officer, I get to deal with the reality that there are unjust laws that I am almost made to enforce, or my career is over. I have contemplated leaving, but if I leave, I know I will be replaced with a millenial that is incapable of thinking for himself....

 

I call bullshit on your justification.

 

Can you tell if you've made any progress as far as your "changing these shitheads from the inside" approach?

 

I can tell you one thing, I wouldn't give two flying fucks what you thought about liberty if you had me in the back of your squad car for cannabis possession. You'd be exactly like the rest of the cops, "just doing what i see is right". Taking away someone's freedom is taking away someone's freedom.

[J. D. Stembal]

I'm sure there's not too many law enforcement on this page, especially since the profession has been dumbed down over the years. I've listened/watched for about a year now and I'm interested in a lot more discussions about real issues. As a police officer, I get to deal with the reality that there are unjust laws that I am almost made to enforce, or my career is over. I have contemplated leaving, but if I leave, I know I will be replaced with a millenial that is incapable of thinking for himself. Another reason I stay is the fact that I get to train new officers on a regular basis. This enables me to steer them towards more liberty oriented policing (baby steps, I know, but the more officers I influence, the better chance we have). This means I might have to take someone to jail for marijuana, prostitution, or another victimless crime. I'm looking forward to learn and discuss!

 

Props and plus reps for stepping out of uniform, and revealing so much.

 

However, there are a couple parts of your statement that do not jive. You use the words "almost" and "might" to describe your duty to uphold all state, federal, and municipal statutes. Is that so, or is it not so? Do you not go on patrol duty? Or are you exclusively involved in cadet training? Is it not a fact that if you destroy evidence or let a criminal go that you will be prosecuted as a conspirator if you are discovered?

 

You have no moral choice while you remain in this position. It is interesting that you use the divisive trope of the "clueless millennial" since many of Stefan's listeners belong in this generation. Why do you assume that a kid "incapable of thinking for himself" joins the force? You were one of those kids, weren't you?

 

Can you think for yourself? Indeed, you can.

 

Is the plan to stay on the inside and fight tyranny from within the system? Do you think this will work? Could you, in good conscience, persuade a teenager to consider the decision to be a police officer more carefully when you are not willing to walk away? I assume you aren't working toward the SWAT team, but what would you do if you were instructed to kill someone against the non-aggression principle?

 

I wonder if the intellectualization above is a crutch that some people use to make themselves feel better instead of connecting directly with their emotions. You are dangerous with only a little bit of empathy for your fellow man. It is incredibly brave of you to be here, speaking your mind, but at some point in the future, you need to come down off the fence and choose good or choose evil.

[Three]

Holy Moley! Welcome to the boards . I think it's fascinating that you listen to this show. 
 

I'm sure there's not too many law enforcement on this page, especially since the profession has been dumbed down over the years. I've listened/watched for about a year now and I'm interested in a lot more discussions about real issues. As a police officer, I get to deal with the reality that there are unjust laws that I am almost made to enforce, or my career is over. I have contemplated leaving, but if I leave, I know I will be replaced with a millenial that is incapable of thinking for himself. Another reason I stay is the fact that I get to train new officers on a regular basis. This enables me to steer them towards more liberty oriented policing (baby steps, I know, but the more officers I influence, the better chance we have). This means I might have to take someone to jail for marijuana, prostitution, or another victimless crime. I'm looking forward to learn and discuss!

[thebeardslastcall]

Welcome to the community! I'm new here myself.

 

I remember, back in 2009 when I was considering jobs, a friend suggested the idea of becoming a cop to be the 'good cop.' I couldn't morally justify it to myself and being a cop was far outside of my natural behavior range so I did not pursue such a career, even though it would have paid quite well (monetarily) and I would have surely been less bad than other cops. Though frankly it was so far from what I could do I'd just get fired for non-performance pretty quickly (or simply wouldn't be hired).

 

I'm wondering, based on your bold introduction that was also a bit excusatory, if you came here to seek support and confirmation for you views that you are doing a 'net good' and to back up your choice or if you really came here so we could call bullshit on it and talk you out of it? Do you think you are considering quitting for a more moral job or do you feel like you are satisfied with your choice to be less immoral than your replacement would be? By being a cop you are also confirming to all your coworkers, young and old, that there is something acceptable about being a cop, that there is a way to justify it that makes it okay, are you not?

 

How long have you been a cop and why did you become one? When did you start questioning the morality of being a cop? Was this approach you are giving now your justification going into the force or did you adopt this view after you started listening to FDR podcasts and similar ideas elsewhere?

 

[MMX2010]

Hello, TheFuzz. 

 

While not everyone in this thread has been empathetic towards your being a cop, I hope you'll answer thebeardslastcall's questions.  I don't want to state my opinion until you've answered them. 

[Merrifield]

I'll admit, I'm not fully sold on peaceful parenting, but I'm still researching. That being said, in my household, spanking rarely happens (maybe once or twice a year for egregious offenses). Now as for stopping kids from spanking children in public, its still legal in my state. You can even use an object (such as a switch, wooden spoon, belt, etc) as long as it doesn't leave marks. I do inform parents, however, if they're going to spank, its best to do so with an open hand on a clothed bottom.

 

As for compromising my values at work, its a basic cost benefit analysis: does my ability to influence a new generation of officers to a more liberty oriented police style outweigh having to arrest someone for marijuana a few times a year. Short term it doesn't, long term it does....lots of gray areas in my line of work. I believe I can do more good by staying, than leaving the profession.

 

Welcome! Steph has lots of great podcasts on peaceful parenting. As in yours, our state still allows spanking but I'm not down with it. I take every oppurtunity I can to try and change a parents mind about this. It's frustrating to see the cycle of violence starting in the family.

I call bullshit on your justification.

 

Can you tell if you've made any progress as far as your "changing these shitheads from the inside" approach?

 

I can tell you one thing, I wouldn't give two flying fucks what you thought about liberty if you had me in the back of your squad car for cannabis possession. You'd be exactly like the rest of the cops, "just doing what i see is right". Taking away someone's freedom is taking away someone's freedom.

 

I'm offended by the level of hostility in this post and the resort to name calling.

 

Props and plus reps for stepping out of uniform, and revealing so much.

 

However, there are a couple parts of your statement that do not jive. You use the words "almost" and "might" to describe your duty to uphold all state, federal, and municipal statutes. Is that so, or is it not so? Do you not go on patrol duty? Or are you exclusively involved in cadet training? Is it not a fact that if you destroy evidence or let a criminal go that you will be prosecuted as a conspirator if you are discovered?

 

You have no moral choice while you remain in this position. It is interesting that you use the divisive trope of the "clueless millennial" since many of Stefan's listeners belong in this generation. Why do you assume that a kid "incapable of thinking for himself" joins the force? You were one of those kids, weren't you?

 

Can you think for yourself? Indeed, you can.

 

Is the plan to stay on the inside and fight tyranny from within the system? Do you think this will work? Could you, in good conscience, persuade a teenager to consider the decision to be a police officer more carefully when you are not willing to walk away? I assume you aren't working toward the SWAT team, but what would you do if you were instructed to kill someone against the non-aggression principle?

 

I wonder if the intellectualization above is a crutch that some people use to make themselves feel better instead of connecting directly with their emotions. You are dangerous with only a little bit of empathy for your fellow man. It is incredibly brave of you to be here, speaking your mind, but at some point in the future, you need to come down off the fence and choose good or choose evil.

In the reality of the situation that we now live, cops are necessary.

I've been a cop 24 years. I swore to uphold the constitution of the U.S. and of my state with no mention of any laws.

If I am alone and put in a situation where someone has some weed or pills on there coffee table or the console of their car, I just ignore it. If there is another cop with me best (and most common) case scenario, either the same as above or the owner flushes it. Worst case someone gets arrested by the other guy.

I tend not to get involved in victimless crimes drugs/gambling/prostitution.

Driving offenses are handled with a stop and verbal warning. Always!

I am a civil service employee which ultimately means I work for the citizen who is represented by the Police Civil Service Commission. The Chief of Police can't fire me. The City Manager can fire me but it is ultimately only a recommendation to the PCSC that I be fired and the PCSC still makes the final decision.

I'm not going to shoot anybody just because someone tells me to.

I'm not going to make an unlawful arrest just because someone tells me to.

I'm not going to violate anybody's constitutional rights or allow someone else to do so under my eye.

As far as changing the culture from within. I know I have, because the above is well known in our department and other departments I've come into contact with.

 

I am also a certified training officer and I do see potential in some of the young ones but I also see others who have sociopathic tendencies and have been involved in keeping many out of our department. If I were talking to a teenager about wanting to be a cop and only had 5 minutes. I would try and assess his reasoning and either dissuade or persuade based on my first impression. If I had more time I would certainly be better informed which approach to take. There are some who have seen injustice and want to try right it.

 

Something else I want to share to illustrate why I started this and why I stayed:

It was on Mother's Day and I had stopped into a convenience store to pick something up. I was acquainted with the employee there and we were chatting about her new grand baby. A young mother approached the counter with toddler in tow. She said to me, " I know you. You saved my life. You probably don't remember me but you did. You saved my life." She looked vaguely familiar but I tried and couldn't recall ever having met her. While she was making her purchased I told her "No, I don't remember you" and asked her to "please, elaborate because I would wonder about it all day."

She stated, her ex-boyfriend beat her, I intervened and convinced her to get an Order of Protection from the court. She went on to tell me that even though on a daily basis she persistently nagged me to drop the protective order between them, I refused to do so. She said, after about two weeks she woke up and realized she was better off without him. She thanked me again, I didn't get her name and still don't recall her. In my defense, the scenario happens frequently, so I don't expect to remember them all.

I told her "happy Mother's Day" and said "goodbye".

What she doesn't know and I didn't tell her, is that she could have dropped the protective order without my consent if she had just went to the Family Court Judge and made a simple request.

[ribuck]

With the Free State Project almost ready to move into a higher gear (when it meets its threshold of signers), I wonder whether there is a worthwhile opportunity for good cops to move to New Hampshire.

[jpahmad]

 

Something else I want to share to illustrate why I started this and why I stayed:

 

 

I'm confused.  Merrifield,  You're not the OP right?

[MMX2010]

 

I'm offended by the level of hostility in this post and the resort to name calling.

 

 

You're not the only one. 

 

Carl never considered: (1) That TheFuzz uses his salary as a police officer to support his wife and children, and (2) That every system is so much bigger than any one individual that no one's actions can significantly change that system.  Instead, TheFuzz's actions merely improve the system by the smallest of margins - but that small margin is beautiful enough, in and of itself.  TheFuzz isn't responsible for reforming the entire police system, just because Carl Bartelt wants to smoke cannabis. 

[TheFuzz]

I will reply as I can, but I am currently limited to 2 posts per day (hence the delay in answering). I will reply with my 2nd reply tonight if there are more questions/discussions.

 

I call bullshit on your justification.

 

Can you tell if you've made any progress as far as your "changing these shitheads from the inside" approach?

 

I can tell you one thing, I wouldn't give two flying fucks what you thought about liberty if you had me in the back of your squad car for cannabis possession. You'd be exactly like the rest of the cops, "just doing what i see is right". Taking away someone's freedom is taking away someone's freedom.

 

You can call BS all you want, but from my perspective its not. I'm also not expecting to be popular on liberty/freedom oriented message boards. I usually get the whole, "You're a cop and can't be liberty minded" replies. That is quite close minded for people claiming to be open minded.

 

Now if I had you in the car for cannabis possession, you would've had to do something else as well. If you were driving, and admitted to being under the influence of marijuana, you'd be going to jail. If you admitted to being under the influence of marijuana, planned on driving, but refused to find another way home, you'd be going to jail. There are other reasons as well, but if your marijuana possession will effect the personal liberties of others, then you'd be going to jail.

 

Side note on marijuana possession that most people don't think about....where does most of America's marijuana come from? The drug cartels in Central and South America that are run by the cartels. By purchasing marijuana from a cartel grown operation, you're funding an organization that directly violates the liberty of hundreds of thousands of individuals. Just some food for thought. (And yes, I'm against the "War on Drugs." 

 

Props and plus reps for stepping out of uniform, and revealing so much.

 

However, there are a couple parts of your statement that do not jive. You use the words "almost" and "might" to describe your duty to uphold all state, federal, and municipal statutes. Is that so, or is it not so? Do you not go on patrol duty? Or are you exclusively involved in cadet training? Is it not a fact that if you destroy evidence or let a criminal go that you will be prosecuted as a conspirator if you are discovered?

 

You have no moral choice while you remain in this position. It is interesting that you use the divisive trope of the "clueless millennial" since many of Stefan's listeners belong in this generation. Why do you assume that a kid "incapable of thinking for himself" joins the force? You were one of those kids, weren't you?

 

Can you think for yourself? Indeed, you can.

 

Is the plan to stay on the inside and fight tyranny from within the system? Do you think this will work? Could you, in good conscience, persuade a teenager to consider the decision to be a police officer more carefully when you are not willing to walk away? I assume you aren't working toward the SWAT team, but what would you do if you were instructed to kill someone against the non-aggression principle?

 

I wonder if the intellectualization above is a crutch that some people use to make themselves feel better instead of connecting directly with their emotions. You are dangerous with only a little bit of empathy for your fellow man. It is incredibly brave of you to be here, speaking your mind, but at some point in the future, you need to come down off the fence and choose good or choose evil.

 

The almost and might have to do with ability to use officer discretion. If my supervisor is standing over my shoulder and he orders me to arrest an individual for marijuana possession, I will have to without argument. If I disobey a lawful order from my supervisor, which arresting someone for something that is currently illegal, I can be fired. If I am by myself, or with other officers that think like I do, I can get away with flushing the marijuana and a warning that most officers aren't like me (which happened just a few days ago). Also, if I destroy the marijuana, without charging someone, then it is not evidence. If I charged someone with marijuana, then destroyed it after I charged them, then I'd be violating the law. I am also currently assigned to the road on patrol, but I also teach at the police academy, as well as train new recruits as they come into our department. 

 

My generation was the one in between Generation X and the millenials. I was also raised differently than most and have always been an outlier of my peers. I can't point to specific incidents in my past that have made me different, but I've always been rebellious...yet practical. If many of the listeners are millenials, they're outliers of their generation. Those I'm seeing apply in law enforcement are the "typical" millenials, not the outliers. I will say, millenials tend to be strongly influenced by the strongest leader in the room (which I strive to be). 

 

I think the fight against typical policing is working. Its a slow process, and I'll probably be long gone before its completed. Lets say I'm able to influence 10 officers to a more liberty oriented view of policework, then my hope is that those 10 will be able to influence 10 more, and so on. I've been responsible for training two recruits that are policing toward the more liberty oriented side of things, and my two most recent are so moral (religiously) that its against their nature to violate the liberty of others. That's just within the last year and not counting the other recruits I've influenced at my other department (though, my last department was numbers driven and I doubt they've kept up with what I've taught them due to the other influences around them). 

 

I also won't persuade anyone, in this day and age, to become a police officer. If they want to, I won't dissuade them, but I'll answer their questions honestly. As for being ordered to kill anyone that would violate a non-aggression principle....if I did, you'd see my face on the news because it'd be illegal. We have to meet a certain set of criteria (same as non-law enforcement) to utilize violence against an individual. What a lot of people who agree with the non-aggression principle don't understand is that sometimes to stop an escalation of violence, one has to initiate violence first. A good example is that if I'm talking to someone, and watch them ball their fist and move their strong leg behind their back leg, I'm going to initiate violence first to keep the fight from escalating further. Once you've been in a few fights, you start to notice the body language indicators that violence is about to occur (not to mention, I'm quite studious of body language, micro-expressions, and statement analysis). 

 

Also, this isn't about good an evil...especially since you're implying that I am on the side of evil by staying in my profession.My profession often gets generalized and lumped into one group, so I'm used to it. Looking forward to more discussions. 

 

Welcome to the community! I'm new here myself.

 

I remember, back in 2009 when I was considering jobs, a friend suggested the idea of becoming a cop to be the 'good cop.' I couldn't morally justify it to myself and being a cop was far outside of my natural behavior range so I did not pursue such a career, even though it would have paid quite well (monetarily) and I would have surely been less bad than other cops. Though frankly it was so far from what I could do I'd just get fired for non-performance pretty quickly (or simply wouldn't be hired).

 

I'm wondering, based on your bold introduction that was also a bit excusatory, if you came here to seek support and confirmation for you views that you are doing a 'net good' and to back up your choice or if you really came here so we could call bullshit on it and talk you out of it? Do you think you are considering quitting for a more moral job or do you feel like you are satisfied with your choice to be less immoral than your replacement would be? By being a cop you are also confirming to all your coworkers, young and old, that there is something acceptable about being a cop, that there is a way to justify it that makes it okay, are you not?

 

How long have you been a cop and why did you become one? When did you start questioning the morality of being a cop? Was this approach you are giving now your justification going into the force or did you adopt this view after you started listening to FDR podcasts and similar ideas elsewhere?

 

 

Gotta love the over-reading into my statements. I'm not looking for support or confirmation, but further discussion and personal growth through those discussions and debate. I'm satisfied by my choice to stay, trying to do good in a profession that can easily be corrupted, as well as having the fear that my replacement wouldn't be able to do as well. I'm also not a conformist at work...which doesn't make me popular . 

 

I've been a cop for going on 12 years now. I worked at a large department, where your worth as an officer was how many tickets you wrote and how many arrests you made. Needless to say, I didn't fit in there, and left for a smaller department that didn't have those same views. I started questioning the morality of law enforcement in general about 6 years ago. I was assigned to a specialized unit that dealt with gangs, but that was combined with a newly formed "street crimes" unit that was tasked with going into high crime areas and arresting as many people as possible. That is where I saw the violation of rights on a large scale. I spoke up about it, and was removed from the unit. Shortly after that, I realized I was "black listed" from any specialized units, promotions, and training, so I left for another department. I also started listening to FDR about 6 months ago. 

With the Free State Project almost ready to move into a higher gear (when it meets its threshold of signers), I wonder whether there is a worthwhile opportunity for good cops to move to New Hampshire.

 

Sorry, but I believe NH is not a right to work state, so I won't be going any time soon. I like the idea of the Free State Project, but I thought they'd be better off going out west, or south, instead of the NE. 

[jpahmad]

I just want to re-iterate how exited I am by this thread.  It really came at the perfect time for me.  Thank you TheFuzz.  

[PatrickC]

Ha, 'the fuzz' was only ever a term I heard for the police when I went to football matches with my father back in the 1970's in the UK. Normally uttered by what were probably football hooligans at the time, who were attempting to avoid getting 'nicked' (arrested) for beating each other up. Other than a few old punk tunes, I've never heard it used since.

 

Anyway, welcome to the forum.

[Merrifield]

I'm confused.  Merrifield,  You're not the OP right?

No

[TheFuzz]

Ha, 'the fuzz' was only ever a term I heard for the police when I went to football matches with my father back in the 1970's in the UK. Normally uttered by what were probably football hooligans at the time, who were attempting to avoid getting 'nicked' (arrested) for beating each other up. Other than a few old punk tunes, I've never heard it used since.

 

Anyway, welcome to the forum.

 

I'll get my second post in for the day (wohoo only 6 more, then I can post freely)...

 

I chose the screen name "The Fuzz" as sort of a joke. One, obviously, because I'm cop; and two, I can't grow facial hair to save my life. 

[MMX2010]

I will reply as I can, but I am currently limited to 2 posts per day (hence the delay in answering). I will reply with my 2nd reply tonight if there are more questions/discussions.

 

 

*snip*

 

The almost and might have to do with ability to use officer discretion. If my supervisor is standing over my shoulder and he orders me to arrest an individual for marijuana possession, I will have to without argument. If I disobey a lawful order from my supervisor, which arresting someone for something that is currently illegal, I can be fired. If I am by myself, or with other officers that think like I do, I can get away with flushing the marijuana and a warning that most officers aren't like me (which happened just a few days ago). Also, if I destroy the marijuana, without charging someone, then it is not evidence. If I charged someone with marijuana, then destroyed it after I charged them, then I'd be violating the law. I am also currently assigned to the road on patrol, but I also teach at the police academy, as well as train new recruits as they come into our department. 

 

*snip*

 

I think the fight against typical policing is working. Its a slow process, and I'll probably be long gone before its completed. Lets say I'm able to influence 10 officers to a more liberty oriented view of policework, then my hope is that those 10 will be able to influence 10 more, and so on. I've been responsible for training two recruits that are policing toward the more liberty oriented side of things, and my two most recent are so moral (religiously) that its against their nature to violate the liberty of others. That's just within the last year and not counting the other recruits I've influenced at my other department (though, my last department was numbers driven and I doubt they've kept up with what I've taught them due to the other influences around them). 

 

 

You sound like what "a really wonderful, empathetic teacher in a horrible public school system in a very bad school where only 20% of the kids graduate" would sound like. 

 

You're not idealistic enough to believe that you can reform the system, but you're not so jaded that you've surrendered all of your power and influence. 

 

You also remind me of the "Stop A Douchebag" movement in Russia.  Basically, a bunch of douchebags kept driving on the sidewalk, putting children and pedestrians at risk.  So a bunch of high school and college kids printed out these gigantic annoying stickers reading "I'm a Douchebag: I Drive Wherever I Want!" to threaten the douchebag drivers with.  If a driver is on the sidewalk, a group of them stand in front of the car and politely ask the driver to turn around and use the road.  If the driver respectfully complies, no anger or violence ensues.  But if the drive repeatedly refuses, they get the sticker on their windshield. 

 

 

 

I feel satisfied listening to a bunch of untrained teenagers act with a professionalism, courtesy, and masculine strength that few men have.  Someone objected, "Why don't these kids just let the community handle it?"  To which someone replied, "Don't you get it?  Those kids are the community." 

 

And so are you, TheFuzz.  You are the community, doing what you can, to help whom you can, knowing that you'll never reform it all - but refusing to surrender your power and influence to depressed cynicism and nihilism. 

 

I feel like I owe you a steak dinner. 

[TheFuzz]

MMX2010, at first I thought your post was an insult...it took a second read to realize it wasn't (or maybe it is and the slight excess of adult beverages from a lazy day grilling at the neighborhood pool has me out of whack). That "Federal Stop a Douchebag Project" was incredible! I wish I could get away with doing that over giving tickets or making arrests...it might work better. 

 

Honestly, the day I stop caring is the day I quit. I live in the city in which I work, so I have a vested interest in how my department is run. Secondly, I believe that the younger generation is moving more toward libertarianism and I might have a greater influence to those coming up the ranks. All it takes is the right influence to the right officer who becomes chief somewhere and is able to influence an entire department. My department has moved from a numbers based merit system (the more tickets/arrests you make, the "better" officer you are) to one more geared toward crime prevention (where your worth is judged by how few crimes are committed in your assigned area). 

[MMX2010]

MMX2010, at first I thought your post was an insult...it took a second read to realize it wasn't (or maybe it is and the slight excess of adult beverages from a lazy day grilling at the neighborhood pool has me out of whack). That "Federal Stop a Douchebag Project" was incredible! I wish I could get away with doing that over giving tickets or making arrests...it might work better. 

 

That video was Ep. 23, and they introduce themselves as the "Federal Project: Stop A Douchebag Movement".  But in this amazing Ep. 3, they introduce themselves as "Stop A Douchebag Movement".  In an interview, the founder of the movement said that President Putin gave his approval of their project, so he introduces himself as the Federal Project.

 

Interview is here: http://www.vice.com/read/we-talked-to-the-guy-behind-stopxam-206

 

Video is here:

 

 

--------------------

 

I also know that, as a police officer you know terms like "escalation and de-escalation", as well.  So I'm sure you're in awe of the youth's abilities to simultaneously acknowledge people's poor behavior without either giving into it or escalating them in further levels of anger.

 

In Pick-Up Artistry, we call that "Amused Mastery" and "Frame Control", so I'm glad to see two crucial PUA concepts extend beyond PUA. 

 

 

 

 

Honestly, the day I stop caring is the day I quit. I live in the city in which I work, so I have a vested interest in how my department is run. Secondly, I believe that the younger generation is moving more toward libertarianism and I might have a greater influence to those coming up the ranks. All it takes is the right influence to the right officer who becomes chief somewhere and is able to influence an entire department. My department has moved from a numbers based merit system (the more tickets/arrests you make, the "better" officer you are) to one more geared toward crime prevention (where your worth is judged by how few crimes are committed in your assigned area).

 

 

I'm glad about that. 

 

Lately, I've been dwelling on the concept "masculine right" - the way that men, by virtue of being right, compel themselves to bring that rightness to as many people as possible, for everyone's benefit. 

 

You do what you do because you are right to do it.  And it's as simple as that.  It's your town, your family, your children, your community - and all of these fold into and inform the fact that you're right. 

 

Because we live in modern times, we feel like atomized individuals with little ability to impact our community.  And we've forgotten that community has never been anything more than committed individuals doing the best they can to both set an example and curtail the bad behavior of other individuals. 

 

Atomized individuals behave how Carl Bartelt behaved: (1) with an extreme lack of awareness of how his cannabis habit finances individuals who destroy his community, (2) and with an extreme expectation that he can, by words alone, expect you to change your behavior to suit his desires.

 

Since I know how your behaviors positively affect your community, I'll take the opposite tact by telling you to stay safe, stay proud. and keep doing what you're doing.  I'll also say that some people will attack you for not yet being convinced about peaceful parenting.  Ignore those people, study peaceful parenting at your own pace, and decide however you'll decide.  No matter what decision you make, it'll be enough because it is you who are making it. 

 

-----------------

 

Lastly, a snippet from an article.

 

Link: http://www.anonymousconservative.com/blog/liberals-need-to-keep-their-hands-off-our-patriotism/

 

 

Relevant Quote - (pay close attention to the last paragraph): "Statistically speaking, the population of America was nothing special during the revolution. 97% of Americans didn’t partake of the revolution. 10% of Americans offered some support, but wouldn’t fight. That means roughly 87% was the same cadre of corrupted idiots we see today, content to watch the decline and do absolutely nothing, so long as they are able to hope that the decline will leave them alone. Back during the revolution there was an actual war in their backyards, and the future of the nation didn’t matter to them enough to do anything. Ask yourself if they remind you of anyone today. They didn’t have Kim Kardashin’s ass photo or Lady Gaga’s outfits to distract them, but it was the same bunch of tools.

 

Regardless of the 87%’s patheity, the America which emerged back then wasn’t in any way banal, cowardly, or pathetic. It was exceptional, in the most extreme sense possible. Most amazing of all, it only took 3% of the population to force their amazingness on the rest, and make the entire nation the greatest the world had ever seen. The truth is in our world, 97% of a nation’s people can be worthless, and it doesn’t matter or affect the greatness of a nation. The only measure by which the greatness of a nation will be defined is by the quality of the great within it, and the degree to which they assert their greatness on the civic culture.

 

If you are looking out on this nation as it circles the drain and saying, “What a bunch of worthless losers,” you’re missing the point. The nation is not what the citizenry as a whole are capable of. It is what the great within it can make of it. It’s never been about the losers. History will remember them about as much as it remembers that shopkeeper who informed for the King to save his own ass during our revolution. The worthless don’t count. Low-information voters don’t count. Liberals don’t count. They are all worthless in the larger picture.

 

When the shit hits the fan, and believe me it will, they will hide under their wive’s skirts, and hope to God they don’t get hurt. That will be the sum total of their actions. Will history even grant them a footnote? Meanwhile, the real Americans, the great 3% who have always pulled all the slack in this nation when history called, will be the ones who define history by either making this nation great, or dying in the process. We’re not talking about even half the country. We’re not even talking about a substantial minority. We’re talking about a number measured in single digit percentages, who just decide to do what is right when the time comes.

 

If you look out on this nation today and see patheity, it is a good thing. Those pathetic people shouldn’t have the gumption to make any changes to our historical timeline. Given their stupidity, that patheity can only be seen as a blessing. It will make it that much easier when the time comes for the real Americans to honor the gift our founders gave us, and preserve the greatness of this nation. That patheity should only increase your patriotism, because it indicates that the job of making America great will be that much easier. Never forget, that pathetic cohort is our enemy. Rejoice and thank God that our enemies are such a bunch of apathetic pussies with no convictions or courage. It is why they don’t count.

 

Nobody has ever said that they loved their country and and been thinking about the Liberal pussies within it. Nobody has ever said that and been thinking about the plethora of small minded shitbags in their government, whose only ambition is to wield authority and oppress their countrymen with mouse clicks and phone calls, delivered from behind a desk. Nobody says they love their nation while thinking about the junkie in a corner looking for a fix, or the idiot Obama-voter gushing about Obama’s stash, or the slut bemoaning how unfair it is that she has to pay fifty cents for a diaphragm before banging the next stranger she meets.

 

People who say they love America, are instinctively recognizing that America is defined by the greatness within it. They only think about the greatness, because through the natural order of the world, they know that such greatness is the defining quality of the nation’s future. Churchill will always define WWII Britain, and not Chamberlain, because Churchill made Britain great and Chamberlain was just a pathetic failure. If a cop saves a woman from being raped by killing the rapist, that cop defines America, because the rapist is dead, and we are too busy cheering the cop to even notice the dead body. When a Soldier, Sailor, Marine, or Airman dives on a grenade to save his buddies and protect the nation, he defines America, because it is his sacrifice which yields the end result of victory and it is his memory which endures after the battle, in the hearts of his fellow great Americans. America is the small business owner who succeeds in making everyone’s life easier, the good samaritan who saves someone from a car wreck, the firefighter who runs into a burning building, and even the guy who goes to a Tea Party rally to try and preserve some semblance of the governmental structure which our elites are now fucking up beyond all repair. America is our greatness, and for us that greatness is our America."

[Matthew Ed Moran]

What are the "egregious offences" you spank your kids for? 

 

Also, do you raise your voice at them or otherwise try to intimidate them to change their behavior? 

 

I understand parenting is difficult, especially if you have not been given the best arguments for peaceful parenting until later in life it can be hard to change, but I think it is really important for you to bring your reasons for spanking up on the boards. Maybe we can convince you not to spank your kids and provide better alternatives. Are you the type of person who will bow to reason and evidence and is willing to change your actions in accordance with new-found truths? If so, I think this board can offer you a lot - for you and your kids.

 

So please don't hesitate to bring your difficulties (which all parents have) to the boards. There is a lot to gain in the long run, when your kids are grown and think about their past, how they were treated, and how their treatment aligns with the values they chose as adults. I hope to see you post about the spanking, it would really impress me!

[thebeardslastcall]

My problem with cops like you is I fear you are blurring everyone's vision. You're introducing white to black and then everyone is left seeing gray. If we broke this mentality then everyone would see the black more clearly and we'd be able to address the issue.

 

Additionally, as the previous poster brought back up, which I appreciate, you're still hitting your kids, and I don't think that's unrelated to your job. It's not just that you haven't accepted peaceful parenting, but that you haven't accepted peace. You're willing to do some evil to do some perceived good and you think it's some scale that balances. As if saving a few lives makes up for killing a few people. I know that seems extreme, but it's this blurred moral vision that seems to just blur everyone's vision about the system. You're giving them a "good cop" to point to and justify the system as not so bad. It's this grey thinking that is the pervasive logic in the world, and you can call me an unfairly black and white person, but it seems like a cancerous logic to me when you're willing to forcefully take away people's freedom or stand idly by when someone's freedom is being taken away. What's the point in pointing out an evil a coworker is doing if at that point you're going to let someone else take the bullet of injustice?

 

Seems like the blind leading the blind to morality to me. I'm not denying you're doing some good, what I'm wondering is how much evil you're willing to do to do your good?

Sorry if that seems harsh, but it's my current reasoning for not wanting to support your efforts. I have trouble differentiating you from all the politicians who go in to do a little good, but just end up conforming and letting evil have its way while at the same time giving people hope in the situation and moral confusion about its agents and thus the system as a whole.

I do commend you for coming here to open yourself up to criticism and to seek further help in learning about peaceful parenting, best of luck with that even if you stay a cop it would be a significant improvement for your kids to intentionally inflict pain upon them less.

 

Take care,

 

Edit: Since it was pointed out to me no one has asked it I thought I'd add in a critical question. The above poster asked what you consider egregious, but that I've seen no one has asked you why you spank your children. You are not convinced in peaceful parenting, why are you convinced against it? And if you aren't convinced against it, why do you default to hitting your children as the perceived solution to your problem?

Edited May 25, 2015 by thebeardslastcall

[Merrifield]

My problem with cops like you is I fear you are blurring everyone's vision. You're introducing white to black and then everyone is left seeing gray. If we broke this mentality then everyone would see the black more clearly and we'd be able to address the issue.

I have spent a lot of time thinking about this same thing. I don't see anything as black and white. Maybe black and white is good for the masses. Maybe gray is to hard to see. That does not negate the fact that there is gray.

Recently, with the frenzy over school shootings, I was assigned to an elementary school and a middle school for 30 minutes twice per day each. While in the schools I have a casual interaction with children grades K-4 and 5-8.

I made it clear to the school administration I was not there to provide discipline to children or scare them and that my interaction would be casual unless a law was broken.

The more I interacted with the children the more I thought about the impression I was leaving.

I started asking myself this question.

Not all cops are like me and if these kids start believing they are, what could be the consequences?

Instead of answering each inquiry of "will you take me to jail?" with my usual "kids don't go to jail unless they do something very, very bad like killing someone." Should I add on that "some other cops might beat you up or shoot you if you run away"?

When the kid comes back with "But my Mom says she's going to call the cops to take me away if I don't quit being bad." Remembering that these are young children and their impressions of the police are to a large degree created by the parents, sometimes I feel like I should re-enforce the parents version and other times I feel I should refute the parents version.

This assignment is likely to become my full-time duty assignment and I feel need to resolve these issues in my mind and stop winging it.

[Carl Green]

Merrifield,

 

Please try putting yourself in my shoes real quick. Here's what I hear from people, like my brother, who justify being a cop because they FEEL they're improving the world.

 

"I am a direct threat to your freedom and I will put you in a prison cell because these people told me to"

 

How do you respond when someone threatens you? Do you smile at them? I sure don't.

 

 

 

You can call BS all you want, but from my perspective its not. I'm also not expecting to be popular on liberty/freedom oriented message boards. I usually get the whole, "You're a cop and can't be liberty minded" replies. That is quite close minded for people claiming to be open minded.

 

I've never claimed to be open minded when it comes to someone putting me in prison without there being a victim or even a damn crime. Try your strawman (or whatever BS that's called, I'm not smart enough to know) somewhere else Danno (and you will, see below about the Cartels)   I don't care what your perspective is. In reality, you put people in prison for a system that they didn't necessarily agree to. I can't just "brush this off" in my head.

 

 

 

Now if I had you in the car for cannabis possession, you would've had to do something else as well. (Absolutely not, If I pull out a bag of weed and show it to a cop, I'm "going to jail" as you so casually put it, as if that's not someones freedom being raped from them simply for your opinion or your blind devotion to a concept)  If you were driving, and admitted to being under the influence of marijuana, you'd be going to jail. If you admitted to being under the influence of marijuana, planned on driving, but refused to find another way home, you'd be going to jail. There are other reasons as well, but if your marijuana possession will effect the personal liberties of others, then you'd be going to jail.

 

Side note on marijuana possession that most people don't think about....where does most of America's marijuana come from? The drug cartels in Central and South America that are run by the cartels. By purchasing marijuana from a cartel grown operation, you're funding an organization that directly violates the liberty of hundreds of thousands of individuals. Just some food for thought. (And yes, I'm against the "War on Drugs." 

 

Nooooooo shit. And why do people have to buy it from there? Everyone buying it thinks about that, and they think how fucked up it is that people like you keep it going on!

[thebeardslastcall]

I have spent a lot of time thinking about this same thing. I don't see anything as black and white. Maybe black and white is good for the masses. Maybe gray is to hard to see.

I think it's the opposite. I think gray is easy to see and being able to separate the good from the bad is difficult. For a cop as example you can't see how you can do the good that you feel you are doing without also doing the bad, so it becomes gray. People think if they don't vote they're letting someone more evil get into office, so they bind the white of non supporting voting with the black of a greater evil getting into office. I think it's very difficult to make issues black and white, in that you can actually mentally separate them. People seem to become cops and voters because they don't know how to help and fight back evil without also throwing themselves into the lions den and doing some evil themselves. When everyone is willing to do some evil to do some good it makes evil extremely pervasive and thus any attempt to do good without evil that much harder.

 

As for answering kids you'll have to consider each on a case by case basis and consider whether or not you're willing to risk your job to tell them the truth, but just remember they're going to realize later you lied to them if you do. Either that or they aren't going to realize and they're going to become blind to the evils of the state and think of that nice cop they met as their defense that the state is good. It's a tough situation to be in no doubt, which is why I said I couldn't put myself into it. If you're really in the position to do some good then you should see it as an opportunity to tell the kids the truth for once. I'm not saying you need to lay it on thick and heavy, but be straight with them if you think you can handle the risk (like the child following up with a tough question to parent that offends them and leads them to taking action against you). If you do give them the truth I urge you to subtly fit in that you do not support the state system (if that is your position) even though you are a cop. Lying to kids is what religions do, pretending they are being helpful, while causing a craziness inside of them that then is left at odds with reality, often difficult to reconcile or root out. Going to jail obviously doesn't require anyone to do something very, very bad, so I'd consider that a lie and the first time they see someone go to jail for a lesser crime (which they may be morally confused about) they're going to get confused and get scared. Kids are pretty intelligent in many ways, don't underestimate them.

 

Saying cops only arrest "really bad" people is equivalent in many ways to the story of hell that scares children. It really twists them in a mental knot. It's not just the kid is being given a sort of death threat of being separated from the parent, but that the parent is the one making the call to God or state to do it. How messed up is that? Frankly the kid would probably be better off without that parent. We always seem to regret that we didn't know the truth about things earlier and had to figure it out later when we were adults. Now we're the adults and we're delivering those same lies.

 

One thing you can probably get away with is planting the seed of imperfection into the idea of the state and separate it from the idea of a moral God. With something like "I'm a cop because I want to stop bad people, but the system isn't perfect so I have to fight injustices in the system as well." Making yourself as an adult seem vulnerable to a kid is very revealing thing. Of course seeing the system as even more powerful than parent and cop makes it even scarier in some ways.

 

It's a difficult situation, no doubt. The fact that you are in these moral back and forth thoughts is part of why I said I couldn't do the job. If you're a cop you're making it gray because you can't separate the good from the bad. You can only separate good from evil as a free agent willing to take the hit of being at odds with the rest of society. I struggle with this issue too in my own way, but I'm on the other side of the fence, wondering how I can survive without entering myself into these situations. I don't want to be the evil guy with good intentions, but I want to survive as well and do some good in the world. I wonder what the world would look like if over the course of a day or week every "good cop" quit and became an independent agent for good. Can't you help the kids without being a cop?

 

I'm not as successful as Mr. Molyneux, in that I don't make a sustainable living at the moment nor do I have a family to support, so take that into consideration when reading my views. In that way I feel like I've already taken a bullet for not playing the game of gray very well as many do. I'm currently working on a book to try to be a bit more successful like Mr. Molyneux and am working to find ways to be more successful on my own terms.

 

Good luck and I'd be curious to hear how things go for you if you'll share your future experiences on the board I'll keep an eye out for them,

[MMX2010]

Merrifield,

 

Please try putting yourself in my shoes real quick. Here's what I hear from people, like my brother, who justify being a cop because they FEEL they're improving the world.

 

"I am a direct threat to your freedom and I will put you in a prison cell because these people told me to"

 

How do you respond when someone threatens you? Do you smile at them? I sure don't.

 

 

Contrast Carl Bartelt's request that Merrifield empathize with him AND the following statement to TheFuzz, also by Carl Bartelt.

 

 

 

I've never claimed to be open minded when it comes to someone putting me in prison without there being a victim or even a damn crime. Try your strawman (or whatever BS that's called, I'm not smart enough to know) somewhere else Danno (and you will, see below about the Cartels)  I don't care what your perspective is. In reality, you put people in prison for a system that they didn't necessarily agree to. I can't just "brush this off" in my head

 

 

Contrast his blue-colored statement to Merrifield, a request for empathy with the following exchange between TheFuzz and Carl Bartelt. 

 

First, TheFuzz states, "Now if I had you in the car for cannabis possession, you would've had to do something else as well."  - implying that he has enough discretion, provided a supervisor isn't looking, to give warnings rather than automatic jail time."  

 

 

Then Carl Bartelt replies, "(Absolutely not, If I pull out a bag of weed and show it to a cop, I'm "going to jail" as you so casually put it, as if that's not someones freedom being raped from them simply for your opinion or your blind devotion to a concept)."

 

 

 

It's amazing that Carl Bartelt wants everyone else to empathize with him, when he shows no ability to empathize with anyone else.  He accuses TheFuzz of being "blindly devoted to a concept", when he cannot see that TheFuzz views the drug war dramatically different from most cops by using his discretion to be softer on drug possessors like Carl. 

 

And what is Carl defending?  His assumed right to use cannabis - NOT his assumed right to use cannabis in a way that most of us find extremely valuable, such as, "My use of cannabis makes me personally intervene in twenty children-being-spanked scenarios every day!"  But just his assumed right to use cannabis. 

 

Carl, I'm also against the drug war - as is TheFuzz - but your non-empathetic behavior isn't helping your cause. 

[thebeardslastcall]

Merrifield,

 

Please try putting yourself in my shoes real quick. Here's what I hear from people, like my brother, who justify being a cop because they FEEL they're improving the world.

 

"I am a direct threat to your freedom and I will put you in a prison cell because these people told me to"

 

How do you respond when someone threatens you? Do you smile at them? I sure don't.

 

I think this is also my issue. We can call it gray, but it feels pretty clearly black when you're the one being arrested and put in jail and having your freedom denied for a lack of compliance with an unjust system. Then you have people who tell you they love you and want you out of jail, while at the same time supporting the same system that put you in there, which sounds eerily like "I love you, but I support God, who is sending you to hell." And no I don't smoke cannabis (or deal with any other drugs), as if that mattered here.

 

If you can't give the straight truth to a kid it's usually a sign you're doing something sketchy, because kids tend to have the moral clarity many adults have lost. If a kid would repulse in confused horror at the truth what do you think that says?

[TheFuzz]

What are the "egregious offences" you spank your kids for? 

 

Also, do you raise your voice at them or otherwise try to intimidate them to change their behavior? 

 

I understand parenting is difficult, especially if you have not been given the best arguments for peaceful parenting until later in life it can be hard to change, but I think it is really important for you to bring your reasons for spanking up on the boards. Maybe we can convince you not to spank your kids and provide better alternatives. Are you the type of person who will bow to reason and evidence and is willing to change your actions in accordance with new-found truths? If so, I think this board can offer you a lot - for you and your kids.

 

Hmm...I believe the last time I spanked my daughter was a few months ago. Her offense? Extreme and repeated disrespect to my wife and I. After taking away privileges, and receiving many "I don't care" statements, the disrespect continued. She was spanked once. I will say that I spank less and less every year. I am also a person that can have his opinion changed, and I have changed many of my opinions multiple times. There are still issues I struggle with, because I can justify both sides of the issue. 

 

My problem with cops like you is I fear you are blurring everyone's vision. You're introducing white to black and then everyone is left seeing gray. If we broke this mentality then everyone would see the black more clearly and we'd be able to address the issue.

 

Additionally, as the previous poster brought back up, which I appreciate, you're still hitting your kids, and I don't think that's unrelated to your job. It's not just that you haven't accepted peaceful parenting, but that you haven't accepted peace. You're willing to do some evil to do some perceived good and you think it's some scale that balances. As if saving a few lives makes up for killing a few people. I know that seems extreme, but it's this blurred moral vision that seems to just blur everyone's vision about the system. You're giving them a "good cop" to point to and justify the system as not so bad. It's this grey thinking that is the pervasive logic in the world, and you can call me an unfairly black and white person, but it seems like a cancerous logic to me when you're willing to forcefully take away people's freedom or stand idly by when someone's freedom is being taken away. What's the point in pointing out an evil a coworker is doing if at that point you're going to let someone else take the bullet of injustice?

 

Seems like the blind leading the blind to morality to me. I'm not denying you're doing some good, what I'm wondering is how much evil you're willing to do to do your good?

 

Sorry if that seems harsh, but it's my current reasoning for not wanting to support your efforts. I have trouble differentiating you from all the politicians who go in to do a little good, but just end up conforming and letting evil have its way while at the same time giving people hope in the situation and moral confusion about its agents and thus the system as a whole.

 

I do commend you for coming here to open yourself up to criticism and to seek further help in learning about peaceful parenting, best of luck with that even if you stay a cop it would be a significant improvement for your kids to intentionally inflict pain upon them less.

 

Take care,

 

Edit: Since it was pointed out to me no one has asked it I thought I'd add in a critical question. The above poster asked what you consider egregious, but that I've seen no one has asked you why you spank your children. You are not convinced in peaceful parenting, why are you convinced against it? And if you aren't convinced against it, why do you default to hitting your children as the perceived solution to your problem?

 

The world is a lot of gray, and Stefan even mentioned it in a video of different cultures viewing things differently. Lets use marijuana possession as an example, since its a hot topic. To many, especially our friend Carl here, its a black/white issue; to me its a gray area. This also goes along with your view of good/evil. You believe that because I have spanked my daughter, I've done evil. There are many who believe that the lack of spanking is the reason there is so much disrespect toward others. Then there's people like me, who view it as a gray area. I see being black/white on most issues is not a good thing and limits your thinking. 

 

As to the reason I spank my daughter, frankly, it corrects behavior problems when no other action has. I'm not convinced for, or against peaceful parenting...hence one of the reasons I'm here. Also, I don't automatically default to spanking, its a rare occurrence, and last resort. 

 

I have spent a lot of time thinking about this same thing. I don't see anything as black and white. Maybe black and white is good for the masses. Maybe gray is to hard to see. That does not negate the fact that there is gray.

Recently, with the frenzy over school shootings, I was assigned to an elementary school and a middle school for 30 minutes twice per day each. While in the schools I have a casual interaction with children grades K-4 and 5-8.

I made it clear to the school administration I was not there to provide discipline to children or scare them and that my interaction would be casual unless a law was broken.

The more I interacted with the children the more I thought about the impression I was leaving.

I started asking myself this question.

Not all cops are like me and if these kids start believing they are, what could be the consequences?

Instead of answering each inquiry of "will you take me to jail?" with my usual "kids don't go to jail unless they do something very, very bad like killing someone." Should I add on that "some other cops might beat you up or shoot you if you run away"?

When the kid comes back with "But my Mom says she's going to call the cops to take me away if I don't quit being bad." Remembering that these are young children and their impressions of the police are to a large degree created by the parents, sometimes I feel like I should re-enforce the parents version and other times I feel I should refute the parents version.

This assignment is likely to become my full-time duty assignment and I feel need to resolve these issues in my mind and stop winging it.

 

That comment, "Be good or the police will take you away!" always irks me. We don't want children to be frightened of the police, especially if they're in need of help. I also interact with kids, mostly high school age, and do what I can to mentor them. We have a large truancy problem at the high school in my jurisdiction. Now this is a gray area for me, since I'm against forced schooling. However, much of our daytime crime is linked to kids skipping school. Not to mention, these kids are not educating themselves outside of a school environment, but are more likely to become a larger burden to society in the future if they do not educate themselves. 

 

I think this is also my issue. We can call it gray, but it feels pretty clearly black when you're the one being arrested and put in jail and having your freedom denied for a lack of compliance with an unjust system. Then you have people who tell you they love you and want you out of jail, while at the same time supporting the same system that put you in there, which sounds eerily like "I love you, but I support God, who is sending you to hell." And no I don't smoke cannabis (or deal with any other drugs), as if that mattered here.

 

If you can't give the straight truth to a kid it's usually a sign you're doing something sketchy, because kids tend to have the moral clarity many adults have lost. If a kid would repulse in confused horror at the truth what do you think that says?

 

I agree. If you're the one in handcuffs, its definitely a black/white issue.

 

Sorry, but I don't buy the whole kid analogy. There are too many variables associated with each independent incident to be clear cut every time. 

[TheFuzz]

Merrifield,

 

Please try putting yourself in my shoes real quick. Here's what I hear from people, like my brother, who justify being a cop because they FEEL they're improving the world.

 

"I am a direct threat to your freedom and I will put you in a prison cell because these people told me to"

 

How do you respond when someone threatens you? Do you smile at them? I sure don't.

 

Sorry, I thought I quoted this in my last post....and I know I will never change your mind with your obvious hostility toward me, just based off of my profession.

 

I don't feel as if I'm improving the world. I feel that I have improved individual's situations in many cases. 

 

Actually, I do smile at people when they threaten me. 

 

But let me approach your responses from a different angle. Are you not an able bodied adult, capable of free choice? If so, what is stopping you from moving to a different society that is more in line with your belief system? Or how about withdrawing from society all together and live off grid? Both are doable, and both are options. You make a conscious choice to live in a society who's belief's don't align with yours. Why not change your personal situation and be happy? 

[jpahmad]

 

 

But let me approach your responses from a different angle. Are you not an able bodied adult, capable of free choice? If so, what is stopping you from moving to a different society that is more in line with your belief system? Or how about withdrawing from society all together and live off grid? Both are doable, and both are options. You make a conscious choice to live in a society who's belief's don't align with yours. Why not change your personal situation and be happy? 

 

TheFuzz, I hope you're not trying to make the "if you don't like it you can leave argument."  Do you believe in mob rule?  If the majority wants to lock up non-violent drug users than everyone else should just go along with it willingly or get out?  We should never try to change the system that we were born into?  You told us yourself that you are trying to change the mindset of police officers yourself.  Do you not see the inconsistency in your above statement with what you yourself are trying to achieve with various police departments?

[thebeardslastcall]

Want to note upfront I have a moderated post above my previous one that has not yet been approved.

 

Or how about withdrawing from society all together and live off grid? Both are doable, and both are options. You make a conscious choice to live in a society who's belief's don't align with yours. Why not change your personal situation and be happy? 

 

This is what I'm aiming to do. The problem is the government you forcefully represent claims right to all the land in that they say it's yours if you pay for it but its under their domain. I can go live off of my land, but your laws will still claim to apply to me and you will not stay off my bought land. I am a fairly happy person, but people like you make higher levels of success much harder because you insert yourself into the business of others and claim authority even if none of the involved parties gave you that authority. For example if I build my home and it's a nice home and I'm happily living off my land, let's imagine completely independently for this, and then some government person tries to come assess property taxes and I refuse to pay or let them even on my land to make this assessment what will happen?

Suggesting someone should leave is like suggesting they should give up their land to the bully and go to another land... magically free of bullies despite the success of being a bully that easily steals land. Why don't you leave? Both people are unwelcome, but one isn't pushing people around. You say it like people want to be beat up because they don't want to negate themselves and yield their life to every foreign claim over their life by running or submitting.

I'm not making any threats here, but let me take this to an extreme a bit to make a point, let's say I go onto a person's land and shoot him and kill him and take his land. Then I get taken to court for murder, would it be a valid defense to say "Well if he didn't want to get shot he should have been somewhere else, he knew I was coming to kill him and take his land" ? You seem to be missing that you are asking why someone isn't happy while you're directly working against the happiness of people. You're beating people up and talking like "well all you have to do is leave and you can be happy, completely retract from trading with anyone and I'll leave you alone I promise, totally doable!"

The only way to be free is to resist evil. If you yield to evil every time it pushes evil gets everything with ease and leaves no place to be free of evil. My hostility towards you has gone up a bit in response to your "be gone and I won't bother you" type talk. I'm pretty sure if someone came up to you and your family at your front door and told all of you to leave the country because you weren't paying a made up fee you'd see that as pretty ridiculous and a heavy assault on your property and family. Maybe you're right, maybe we should be kicking out all the government agents from the country?

 

I'm also a bit confused with the implication that you're happy. Really? What you're doing doesn't bother you at all? Do you enjoy locking people up for non-compliance with all the laws you represent?