New mom, an a philosophical kamikaze mission to save her family

[Tyne]

Hello all you truly beautiful brains out there. :-)

 

I'm a sculptor/illustrator and a first time mom. I was introduced to peaceful parenting by my husband, who is a libertarian, and thus became a ravenous consumer of philosophy. Although my journey into self knowledge isn't even a full year in, it has been a reality breaking experience; a horror and a delight.

 

When I found out I was pregnant two years ago, I knew I wanted the best for my child, so I took great care of my body. But that wasn't enough for me. I wanted to give my child the best entry into the world, so I had a home birth with a midwife, doulahs, without drugs, and breastfed. But that wasn't enough. I wanted to have a strong bond with my son, so he would always know the comfort of a responsive parent, so I wore him in carriers, co slept and practiced attachment parenting.

 

All of this I did out of a commitment to offering the very best early parenting I could offer, even if it was uncomfortable or inconvenient at the time. However, if I had to choose only one of these parenting practices to raise my child by above all the rest, I would choose philosophical parenting. Nothing seems quite as fundamentally necessary as parenting (and living life) with consistent principles. It seems like a child can overcome any challenging beginnings if his parents can simply dedicate themselves to being loving, rational roll-models.

 

And yet, here I find in lies the greatest challenge I have yet to face. My husband and I argue almost every week. We struggle with communication and seem to be drifting far apart. For all of our commitment to good parenting we can't seem to get this thing right. We both come from divorced parents and seem to be set on a corse for familial destruction. I'm dedicated to doing anything I can to salvage this situation for my child's sake- not mine, not my husband's. I want a better life for the future.

[utopian]

Hello Tyne, and welcome to philosophy! I am always excited to see women getting into philosophy, and especially happy to see that your child is your first concern. There is a lot of research around here speaking to the problems associated with child abuse, which some experts go so far as to claim is the inherent cause for everything up to world wars. 

 

 

Before I comment further about your struggle, I wish to ask you something; what do you think men can do to get more women into philosophy? It is a common theme for me and other men that we dare not bring up the truth to women, because it does nothing but damage potential relationships. It is a common misfortune that the truth hurts, and women avoid anything that makes them uncomfortable, enabled by men who will do anything to get a woman to have relationships with them. I admire your interest in philosophy, as surely you must have realized, as well as have stated, that sometimes you discover things that are uncomfortable or inconvenient. 

 

 

 

I understand arguing with a spouse can certainly be stressful. It is probably largely unavoidable, however. Some arguments are bound to happen. I am sure you can largely mitigate the frequency with which they happen, however, through improving communication of course, which, you say, is the problem. 

 

What is it you guys argue about? Is it stuff that seems unimportant? Could one or both of you be letting things go? Or perhaps, be more patient about communicating things? Perhaps what is happening is that you are both simply stressed out, and are not finding the right ways to relieve your anger and such, except through argument. Where is the struggle in communication coming from?

[Anuojat]

This sounds important enough to perhaps call in and scedsuale a show!

 

Stef and Mike have many a time had couples on the show in the calls discussing JUST this sort of thing!

 

Also have you sough (good) therephists for each other?

[Carl Green]

Hello Tyne,

 

The FDR member LovePrevails might be able to help you out with the relationship.

[jpahmad]

I say call into the show asap

[Kurtis]

Welcome Tyne!

 

On behalf of your child, I'd like to thank you for your dedication to learning and improving. 

 

In regards to your communication issues with your partner, have you read Real-Time Relationships? 

https://freedomainradio.com/free/

 

I also agree with the others above about calling into the show asap, before you two 'drift even further apart'.

[Tyne]

Thanks Utopian! I think that's an amazing question and I'm honored to share my thoughts. I've been considering it all day and I by no means have a definitive answer; the personalities and motives of women are so varied and complex, I don't think I could cast a net that wide, but here's hoping we can ensnare at least a few worthy specimens.

 

I think intelligent women would be automatically drawn to philosophical topics of interest. For me, that was parenting. I wish I had discovered the show sooner, for all the troubles that could have been averted in my life, but when I first started watching Stefan's YouTube channel, I would pass up anything political or in the news for parenting and relationship advice. Once I realized the political arguments were tied in with the social and family and relationship arguments, I started listening to everything. So understanding what burning questions women have about life and starting there would be a great way to set them on a path of philosophy.

 

I feel like I stand apart from most women (which might begin to explain why I hesitate to speak for women as a whole) because I care deeply about the minds and hearts of men, which I feel has been sadly forgotten in these modern times. Society focuses on the dynamic female role models, the struggles and triumphs of the women behind the men, and so on. For some reason, women and girls look to other women for answers. why are we not asking the men? I think that a lot of women are convinced that the only thing a man wants is sex and a way to manipulate women, which stifles curiosity with a religious answer: "men only want one thing, so why bother...." Or "men are stupid." So sad, but if we could show women that men can have empathy for them, and that they can be a valuable source of wisdom, maybe they could trust men with answering those burning life questions.

 

As for my situation with my husband and I, as we currently stand, we've stopped providing value to each other. I have been neglecting myself, which he finds repugnant, and he has been mean, passive aggressive, and a bully. His requests are very simple, like "clean the dishes before I get home so I can make dinner," or "take a shower and brush your teeth," so doing these things aren't hard, and they don't go against my preferences, but he has trouble understanding why I might be struggling with these things, and lacks any curiosity about me or what I might be experiencing. Instead he bullies, I whine, he dismisses, makes up a story about something I didn't say, and doesn't listen. Its very frustrating and makes me feel resentful- even resistant to doing things that would be good for me.

[Tyne]

Anuojat's And jpahmad, I have been dying to have a conversation with Stefan and Mile about my marriage. I will definitely be emailing them soon.

 

Kurtis, I have listened to RTR a couple of times. There is definitely some very valuable knowledge in there, but it was very challenging for me to wrap my head around a few of the concepts. I'm going to listen to it again and keep trying to connect with the information.

[Tyne]

Melomomma I would love to know more about your experience in "crunchy" parenting. I'm so glad there are more moms like me here! Where I live, I was beginning to lose hope in finding parents who didn't act like children themselves. I will definitely be looking in to Somatic Experience therapy! I am very eager to get back to a therapist. We started seeing one together, but the cost was a bit more than we could manage, and the therapist we chose wasn't in our healthcare network, so we're still looking.

[FDRenthusiast]

Hi Tyne, welcome!  It sounds like you could benefit from calling in to the show.  I know it can be nerve-wracking to call in but just think of how badly you want yourself and your family to get better.  

[utopian]

 

I feel like I stand apart from most women (which might begin to explain why I hesitate to speak for women as a whole) because I care deeply about the minds and hearts of men, which I feel has been sadly forgotten in these modern times.

 

Do you like, have a sister that is single or something?    This is so rare, we sometimes call this being a unicorn.

 

 

 Society focuses on the dynamic female role models, the struggles and triumphs of the women behind the men, and so on. For some reason, women and girls look to other women for answers. why are we not asking the men?

 

There are two answers I think, one is that the media is brainwashing people to see men as nothing as useless unintelligent fools who are responsible for all of people's problems. 

 

The second is that men are indeed loosing themselves in this modern world. It used to be that men were made for more of a survival of the fittest era. With such modern conveniences and controls, we are evolving beyond that, and the things that men were evolved for are becoming somewhat unnecessary. The baseline values of men are still important, however, even if we have modern conveniences to replace them. The issue arises when society thinks we can do without men completely, because we have modern conveniences to take care of us. People don't seem to realize, both society and modern conveniences are an illusion, and when they are taken away, individuals are left traumatized and dependent. They dont realize the value of men until its too late.

 

 

 

 

 

 I think that a lot of women are convinced that the only thing a man wants is sex and a way to manipulate women, which stifles curiosity with a religious answer: "men only want one thing, so why bother...." Or "men are stupid." So sad, but if we could show women that men can have empathy for them, and that they can be a valuable source of wisdom, maybe they could trust men with answering those burning life questions.

 

I think this is true to an extent, for men who have had so little. But a lot of men have not yet had the chance to realize that sex is not all they want, that they actually do want a real relationship with quality women. Their lack of realization is a philosophical issue of society as a whole. There are a lot of lost people these days. And even more men who prudely deny they want sex, becoming frustrated when they realize what society tells them what makes them happy, actually does not. People in general need more philosophy.

 

 

 

As for my situation with my husband and I, as we currently stand, we've stopped providing value to each other. I have been neglecting myself, which he finds repugnant, and he has been mean, passive aggressive, and a bully. His requests are very simple, like "clean the dishes before I get home so I can make dinner," or "take a shower and brush your teeth," so doing these things aren't hard, and they don't go against my preferences, but he has trouble understanding why I might be struggling with these things, and lacks any curiosity about me or what I might be experiencing. Instead he bullies, I whine, he dismisses, makes up a story about something I didn't say, and doesn't listen. Its very frustrating and makes me feel resentful- even resistant to doing things that would be good for me.

 

Hmm. Well I can somewhat understand, I have something like a relationship like this with my dad. He does not even know me, or care to know me. He does not know how to be a human though. I have long since given up on ever thinking he will be human enough for me to know what its like to have a father, but that's its own story. It sounds to me like there was a time you and your husband were great with each other, and something seems to have happened. I bet you can get there again, for sure. You should definitely see if you can call into the show and see what Stef has to say about it.

[Tyne]

Melomama, thanks for the article. I'm reading it, and its definitely opening up some new perspectives for me. Some of it painful, a lot of it is hopeful. For the past couple years, I have been of the mindset that I have really ruined my life by committing to a relationship with a person who could not rise to the challenge of being the best partner for me and love and appreciate me completely; that I would take my lumps, pay the consequences for my carelessness with my heart and his, and hope that the highest we might achieve is co-existence. A bleak outlook for the rest of my life- I mean, sometimes the thought almost sends me into full blown panic. If Al Turtle and some much. needed therapy can offer a sunnier path, I'll fight for that. I can't imagine surviving in this sad state. Something must change. I think you're right: therapy is something that just can't wait for instance to pay out. The deductible is ridiculous, the year is almost over, and come next January, we'd have to pay it off all over again! The money seems well spent to me, but my husband does not seem to think we can afford it. I've tried persuading him that the value is there, but he insists that he does see the value but we just can't spend the money. I'm not convinced, honestly, that he is as driven as I am to improve our relationship, which is discouraging to say the least.

 

What are some financial strategies that might work in this situation? Maybe I can inspire my husband to loosen his purse strings if he knew there were some other financial options. (I'll be sure to ask our therapist, too.)

[brucethecollie]

 

I think intelligent women would be automatically drawn to philosophical topics of interest. For me, that was parenting. I wish I had discovered the show sooner, for all the troubles that could have been averted in my life, but when I first started watching Stefan's YouTube channel, I would pass up anything political or in the news for parenting and relationship advice. Once I realized the political arguments were tied in with the social and family and relationship arguments, I started listening to everything. So understanding what burning questions women have about life and starting there would be a great way to set them on a path of philosophy.

 

 

 

 

I think you've struck some gold here.  I got into philosophy through peaceful parenting first.  Years later I saw the strong correlation between the typical style of parenting and the same forceful actions of the state and it seemed we were just raising children to be bullies and enforcers of arbitrary rules.  I'm in a facebook group for people who do whole life unschooling which is very much peaceful parenting and there are 10,000 or so members.  Most are mothers.  Many of those mothers have a ton of smart philosophical questions.  So I'd say that is a big eye opener for women and something that will signal an alarm for them to be interested in hearing more about.  

[Clark Gorny]

Do not use other peoples actions as an excuse for your own! You say you want to be a role model for your child?

 

How would you want your child to react to someone who is mistreating them?

 

Would you want them to neglect themselves in hopes it might change the other persons behavior!?

 

BE AN EXAMPLE! Focus on yourself. He has already distanced himself from you and obviously does not respect you.

 

This does not have to be permanent. You have the power to change this situation!

 

If he does not want to pay for therapy or participate then get yourself into therapy.

 

If you cannot afford to pay someone you can find many MANY! resources for free online.

 

In my opinion the only chance you have of salvaging this relationship is to now focus on yourself.. Children are not the only people who learn from example. If this "man" is a decent person he will see your improvement and your commitment and be inspired. What are you waiting for? Allot of people in this "community" will talk to the cows come home.. 

 

YOU NEED ACTION!

 

Sorry if you think I am being too blunt, I speak out of respect.

[BaylorPRSer]

Thanks for this Tyne. I'd advise some shopping around with your husband for a therapist and weighing the pros and cons of the different modalities. Many therapists incorporate and are influenced by several. I've had two therapists. One was more influenced by cbt, the other by Internal Family Systems (IFS). I see value in cbt, but one thing you run into in that modality is shoving bad habits and thought patterns out of your mind, which is of course, impossible, and not discovering the positive intent that particular aspect of your subconscious has for encouraging you to behave/think in a certain way. IFS is big on the idea that we are an ecosystem of personalities, and they respond to empathy and acceptance. It does not endorse sinking into your bad habits, but it ensures that you discover the positive intent, allowing the sub personality to feel seen and loved and thus, more willing to cooperate. I've had much more success with the ifs approach. Also, I Went to one therapist in person and now Skype with one, and I much prefer skyping with a better therapist as opposed to seeing one in person. There are couples therapists who work with IFS. I'd encourage both you and your husband to pursue therapy individually and together. It will transform you. Let me know if you need help finding a philosophical therapist. Thanks again for reaching out.

[Tyne]

Thanks Melomama, those are some fantastic ideas! I hadn't heard of those sights, but I could definitely offer bartered service for discounts. (I'd done that for my Doulah, back when I was pregnant.)

 

Brucethecollie, I'm so glad I'm not alone on that front. I think Stefan mentioned he'd been doing fewer talks about parenting because listeners were less interested, which was disappointing to me. It is one of my favorite topics (followed by relationships.) Do you mind sharing the name of that Facebook group? I'd be interested in checking it out some time.

Do not use other peoples actions as an excuse for your own! You say you want to be a role model for your child?

 

How would you want your child to react to someone who is mistreating them?

 

Would you want them to neglect themselves in hopes it might change the other persons behavior!?

 

BE AN EXAMPLE! Focus on yourself. He has already distanced himself from you and obviously does not respect you.

 

This does not have to be permanent. You have the power to change this situation!

 

If he does not want to pay for therapy or participate then get yourself into therapy.

 

If you cannot afford to pay someone you can find many MANY! resources for free online.

 

In my opinion the only chance you have of salvaging this relationship is to now focus on yourself.. Children are not the only people who learn from example. If this "man" is a decent person he will see your improvement and your commitment and be inspired. What are you waiting for? Allot of people in this "community" will talk to the cows come home.. 

 

YOU NEED ACTION!

 

Sorry if you think I am being too blunt, I speak out of respect.

No need to apologize. I appreciate blunt. Yes, I know I need to take action. I know I must be the example. I fully accept responsibility for myself: my feelings, choices and actions, are nobody's but my own. I don't quite know where you extrapolated that I've been neglecting myself to effect my husband's behavior. Unconsciously or not, although it had an effect on my husband, this was more to do with depression not manipulation. I never asked for change from my husband. When things were getting rough between us, I avoided evaluating my husband and instead demanded more from myself. I'm done with having standards only for myself. I have to admit its not all about me and my choices and actions anymore; he has them and makes them, too. He is an influence on my son, too- arguably more than me, so he has to step up, too. I can't wait around for him to suddenly get that this is important, and I can't force him to improve, but I can ask him to participate, and if I have to, take the lead so he can see that I'm not all talk and bullshit.

[Clark Gorny]

"No need to apologize. I appreciate blunt. Yes, I know I need to take action. I know I must be the example. I fully accept responsibility for myself: my feelings, choices and actions, are nobody's but my own. I don't quite know where you extrapolated that I've been neglecting myself to effect my husband's behavior. Unconsciously or not, although it had an effect on my husband, this was more to do with depression not manipulation."

 

I did not actually say you were neglecting yourself to effect your husbands behavior. Although I do think it is a possible unconscious motive, it is besides the point. I said that is the example your child is going to perceive. Look at it from your child's perspective. You and husband start having problems, you start neglecting yourself and that gets a response from your husband. The child is not going to ponder motives. So far I have not seen you mention anything else that has had any effect on him. So only one option is left for your child to see. 

 

"I never asked for change from my husband. When things were getting rough between us, I avoided evaluating my husband and instead demanded more from myself. "

 

Nothing wrong with asking for change or evaluating your husband, in fact both are critical to sustaining a healthy relationship. If you have avoided doing these things you should take responsibility for the damage it did to the relationship. Basically either you don't think his self esteem can handle being constructively criticized or you are doing this to avoid the discomfort of confrontation.

 

"I'm done with having standards only for myself. I have to admit its not all about me and my choices and actions anymore; he has them and makes them, too. He is an influence on my son, too- arguably more than me, so he has to step up, too. I can't wait around for him to suddenly get that this is important, and I can't force him to improve, but I can ask him to participate, and if I have to, take the lead so he can see that I'm not all talk and bullshit." 

 

Now that I can't argue with

 "I don't quite know where you extrapolated that I've been neglecting myself to effect my husband's behavior. Unconsciously or not, although it had an effect on my husband"

 

Just look at the title of your post 

"a philosophical kamikaze mission to save her family"

 

Remove the word philosophical and you have killing yourself to save your family. Is hurting yourself to effect your husband a stretch from that?

[dsayers]

when I first started watching Stefan's YouTube channel, I would pass up anything political or in the news for parenting and relationship advice. Once I realized the political arguments were tied in with the social and family and relationship arguments, I started listening to everything

 

Sorry for the bump, but I wanted to quote this for emphasis. My path was comparable. I wasn't very interested in economics. Woo, was I ever missing out! For me, just understanding value as a concept makes morality, politics, sociology, history, etc so much clearer. My perceived burdens in life were so alleviated, it felt like I had none by comparison. The ability to be free of all the obfuscations... I wouldn't trade it for anything.

 

So I hope others who pick and choose like we did will read one of these and make an effort to check out other facets than is their primary draw. It's interesting to see how inter-connected it all is.