Hello from England

[Chauncey Tinker]

Hello from England.

 

Although I have long been concerned about world affairs, lately my concern has turned to downright alarm.  Our government here in the UK is more and more sounding like the Big Brother in George Orwell's 1984.  I have started getting involved in the debate online as a result.  I am also writing my ideas down at greater length on a blog, where I have written a tribute to Stefan.  Some people are talking about running away from problems, but I am determined to stay where I am.

I have been following Stefan's podcasts for quite a while.  I think the discussions about relationships are really useful.  It has astonished me to hear people talking openly about their personal problems before the whole world, but the value of this it seems to me is immense.  Other people are listening and seeing parallels with their own lives.

I am still unsure about the idea of a stateless society but what is not in doubt in my mind is that "democracy" as we know it today is not working at all well.  Overall the podcasts are always at the very least interesting and its really encouraging to hear so many subjects that have been stifled by political correctness being openly discussed.  Free domain radio has given me some hope that a better future is achievable, and I want to join the debate.

Chauncey
 

[luxfelix]

Welcome Chauncey! 

 

Where in England are you from?

[RichardY]

Hi I'm from England too, south Lincolnshire (The Bread Basket of UK). I agree with the 1984 bit. Not so keen on staying though, although I do think people in the UK are generally very charitable and friendly despite being crammed onto an island of 80 million people if you go by supermarket figures.

 

One of the good things I can think of is the relative convience of getting goods in the UK, also if you live near Cambridge or London you can probably network with people very easily if you can afford to live there. Not seen that much of the UK but I hear its "Grim up North" the south though seems super expensive unless you can get council housing,  The Midlands is somewhere in the middle for prices. Had a meal in a restaurant in hertfordshire recently and it was £12 for a burger! could get all you can eat steak plus wine and brandy for 15 EURO's in Northern Portugal.   

[Chauncey Tinker]

Hello luxfelix, sorry for the slow reply.  I am based in London.

[luxfelix]

Hello luxfelix, sorry for the slow reply.  I am based in London.

 

No worries.

 

Do you generally find folks in London receptive to some of the ideas discussed here and/or on the show?

 

Also, you mentioned you had a blog; post a link? 

[Chauncey Tinker]

No worries.

 

Do you generally find folks in London receptive to some of the ideas discussed here and/or on the show?

 

Also, you mentioned you had a blog; post a link? 

 

My blog is here:

 

https://chaunceytinker.wordpress.com/

 

That's a good question.  I am not well connected socially but I do attempt to raise issues when I can.  My own experience is that challenging the state in the UK is very difficult and direct attempts should generally be avoided with people you don't know.  The concept of free health care (the NHS) is very entrenched.  If you question welfare it will generally be assumed that you are happy for disabled people to die.  I have found Stefan's arguments on this really useful though.  For example, he said something like, the welfare state was invented just at the moment when poverty was becoming a thing of the past.  Also, people care, so disabled people will be looked after.

 

Trying to raise concerns about Islam in particular is actually becoming dangerous.  Even a lot of British people will actually become aggressive in defence of an ideology they know nothing about.  Free speech has not been in such grave danger for centuries.  The BBC is more of a propaganda machine, a 'Ministry of Truth' on subjects such as Islam, immigration and the EU than it is a forum for rational debate.  I think the BBC is actually a very large obstacle to progress in human thought in the UK, maybe even beyond as well.  Try not paying your licence fee, and you will start to receive threatening letters from the govt.

 

On the more personal questions such as peaceful parenting the outlook is better.  You don't often see a child being hit in public these days, that's really quite rare now.  All the more bizarre then that there is so little questioning of a religion that condones wife beating (Koran 4:34) and the killing of apostates (Bukhari hadith 52:260).  As you may have started to notice by now, Islam is a subject that is never far from my mind.  Civilization is losing ground to this terrible ideology by the day.  That's a big issue in the UK.

[Chauncey Tinker]

Hi I'm from England too, south Lincolnshire (The Bread Basket of UK). I agree with the 1984 bit. Not so keen on staying though, although I do think people in the UK are generally very charitable and friendly despite being crammed onto an island of 80 million people if you go by supermarket figures.

 

One of the good things I can think of is the relative convience of getting goods in the UK, also if you live near Cambridge or London you can probably network with people very easily if you can afford to live there. Not seen that much of the UK but I hear its "Grim up North" the south though seems super expensive unless you can get council housing,  The Midlands is somewhere in the middle for prices. Had a meal in a restaurant in hertfordshire recently and it was £12 for a burger! could get all you can eat steak plus wine and brandy for 15 EURO's in Northern Portugal.   

 

"if you go by supermarket figures"

 

I know what you mean, I read about that as well .

 

I've just added 3 blog posts on the 1984 question if you're interested in that.

 

The north is not all grim, the Lake District and North Yorkshire moors are well worth a visit.

 

[RichardY]

Yeah the Prevent Strategy is completely insane, the whole "Extreme"  or "Radical" terminology makes no moral or logical sense whatsoever. When you have "muslims" (Religion of peace etc....). holding placards saying  "Behead those who insult the prophet" and "Freedom go to Hell". Condoning murder and slavery, what more is there to say? Action wise I only see 2 options. 

 

Option 1: Freedom of association, you don't associate, problem is the state forces you to through taxes, and should more "Radical Not muslims, but claiming to be Muslims" go on the physical offence en masse your forced to submit, die or run for your life.  

Option 2: Opposition, using philosophy as a unifying force to oppose an irrational ideology, and I think demonstrating the irrational ideology to be insane or incoherent I'm thinking "Monty Python", except I haven't heard of people threatening to decapitate John Cleese. And finally actual physical self defence, but being on the defensive I think you lose the intiative. 

 

On a lighter note, haven't been to the Lake District, but have been the Yorkshire Dales great bit of countryside. 

[Chauncey Tinker]

I have found people who are starting to see the light about the wider problems with the state and mass immigration often begin when they start learning the truth about Islam.  The problems with the religion are stark, and people will twig much more quickly than they will with the problems with the state.  Then you can link welfare to the rapid growth of the UK Muslim population for example, and they will start to see the problems with welfare much more easily.  I made this link in an earlier post about welfare:

https://chaunceytinker.wordpress.com/2016/03/04/dysgenics-and-welfare/

Right now there is widespread ignorance about the true facts of the religion, so my approach is as follows.  Raising the subject in person publicly is dangerous, but its relatively safe to do what we're doing here, discuss it online.  We should all get busy on social media, comment on news stories, start your own blog and keep pushing the truth out there.  Concentrate on references to the Islamic texts, always give specific references e.g. Koran 4:34 is the wife beating bit.  Don't be afraid to repeat yourself either.  By the way, Koran 4:34 is the wife beating bit.

It would be a very brave set of people who put together an Islamic version of the Life of Brian.  A lot of Westerners such as embassy staff in the Middle East are also very vulnerable to mobs.  I think its possibly better just to concentrate on starting conversations all over the internet.  Strength in numbers, the terrorists can kill a few people, much harder for them to kill large numbers of people scattered about, and much less likely they will riot as well if its a continuous and widespread trickle of information.  Its also much harder for the state to try to squash it, as with the "Prevent" strategy.  The Charlie Hebdo guys were martyrs, I have great respect for them, but did they directly advance knowledge of Islam through their cartoons?  Unfortunately not really.

As for association, that just brings us back to welfare again.  Welfare enables different groups to stay segregated, without it they would be forced to mingle through business and trade.  Barriers would begin to break down.  There would be less time to contemplate religious texts.
 

[grafro86]

I live in London as well and it is so multicultural that trying to talk about the many pitfalls of Islam and the swiss cheese state of the border can be a challenge to put it lightly.

 

Sometimes I feel like I'm a hermit because even though I'm surrounded by loads of people everyday on the tubes, buses and streets; It feels like I'm just walking among drones or indoctrinated zombies. Conversations with these type of people seems to never divert from the menial and trivial. So many people have no idea that they adopt auto-pilot style monologues where the structure of the conversation goes something like:

 

"Hiya, you alright?" to which a response will usually be a curt 

 

"yeah, you?!" 

 

"yeah"...and the conversation reaches its natural end.

 

Its so disheartening when you genuinely want to have a dialogue with individuals that question conventional norms not as a way of attacking them, but rather because of curiosity and to increase our knowledge. If certain negative aspects of a particular topic come out of having an honest conversation, then people shouldn't take this as a judgement on themselves but rather treat it as a revelation! 

 

I've come to the realisation that most of what I would call "my tribe" i.e. the tribe of thinkers as Stef puts it will be found in communities like this online.

[Stiofan]

Hi Chauncey Tinker, grafro86 and RichardY,

It's really good to see new people from the UK here. It's hard to have a open and honest conversation about anything with 'normal' people here the UK. As soon as you say something that is not mainstream you are called a islamophobic ect... Well I have been anyway. I'm in London and there are a few of us here.

 

There is a FDR London Meetup Group on Facebook, https://www.facebook.com/groups/1438425056435291/We have google hangouts (we had one last night) and IRL meetups (one this Saturday) too. There is also the  FDR Northern England Meetup Group - https://www.facebook...15773255135016/ It's a great place to get to know other FDR members. 

 

If you ask to join, the groups Admin will send you a message. You should check your messages, go to messages page on facebook, click on 'More' (top left, below search box) and click 'Filtered'. This should show any messages.