Son Violating Non-Aggression Principle - Can I Use Physical Force?

[Lotus Flowery]

Hi everyone, help is much needed!!!

 

My three year old has developed a habit of hitting and kicking me - not to sound nonchalant, I can expand more on this if needed and am happy to.

 

How do I deal with this so that I don't come across as a spineless wimp who doesn't believe in fighting back?

[Drew.]

I taught a boy who would hit me. During the summer at a nearby park, a boy would hit me sometimes. I don't think the non-aggression principle really applies to children, simply because they are not fully developed. That is, him hitting you is not immoral. But it's also not a good or nice thing to do. But, that's the theoretical.

 

In these situations, I restrained them. I prevented them from hitting me more. I gave them a great big hug. Depending on the level of comfort and familiarity, I would also kiss them on the forehead while doing so.

 

It's okay to be firm and assertive with children. Do not strike them, but I think it's acceptable to prevent them from hitting you or others.

 

I think that some children hit because they have only learned to touch others through the use of physical force. They hit because they have been hit. They hit because they want to touch another person, and it is the only way (dominant, or most socially acceptable way) that they have learned to do so. Some children hit haven't received much in the way of positive touch, like hugs and other displays of physical affection. If this has been your relationship with your son, then I commend you for trying to improve your parenting style. Even starting now will have a tremendous positive impact on the life of your son and your relationship with him.

 

Some children hit because they are angry and do not know how to express themselves. They need to know what they are feeling, that it is understandable that they are angry, and other such things.

 

So, what I have done is wrapped up the child in a hug, told them firmly in a low voice: "I understand that you are angry, but it is not okay to hit me. What are you upset about? Tell me. I love you. I want to help you." And I may offer other displays of physical affection too. I tell them that I will let them go as soon as they stop hitting me, and if they do it again, I will do the same.

 

The boy that I taught for a year stopped hitting me entirely after a month or two. The only time he did was in acceptable situations, such as pillow fights and paper ninja-star fights.

[The Underthinker]

I would not want my child to hit me or hit anyone else. I've taught classes where a kid would randomly hit me, however none as young as 3 years old. I think I would approach it the same though.

 

I do not want to get used to blocking attacks from a child, because others might not have the self defense reflexes I have.

 

I would hold the child's arm, and say no, making sure to get his/her undivided attention for this message. Each next time within the same few minutes, I will increase this timeout. But I will also observe the child carefully. There's a difference between not understanding that the behavior is unacceptable (they can't really understand they're hurting people at that age, children don't develop the ability to empathize/understand others have feelings until somewhere between 3-6, though usually around 4 years old) and knowing not to engage in the behavior but being unable to control oneself. So I would be on the lookout for that.

 

If it is uncontrollable, there might be something else going on that gives the child distress and causes him/her to act out. It's not really something that has ever made me angry, but I will pretend to be angry after repeated action and this has almost always worked.

I don't think it's necessary to hurt or cause pain for the child to get this message across. It helps to just have a very clear boundary in your mind and enforcing that boundary every time with patience, unless it's playfight time.

The goal is not stop getting hurt, the goal is to stop the behavior that will not help the child socially. If I were to hit the child, I would teach implicitly that it's okay to hit those who you have authority over to keep them in line. If I instead communicate as clearly as possible (with both body and voice) and possibly restrain for 1-5 seconds, then I would teach implicitly that it's okay to communicate / restrain to keep yourself safe towards someone who is aggressive and you have authority over.

 

Have the boundary crystal clear in your head and enforce it every time. Even if you didn't mind this one time of him/her slapping you. 

[EclecticIdealist]

I agree with the previous posters... and would like to add that simply restraining the child may not be sufficient. It may also be beneficial to work with the child to identify an alternative action to hitting in expressing or conveying what is on their mind. I would also seek to understand specifically why the child is hitting. Are they simply attempting to assert control over their environment, or is there anger, frustration, or some other emotion involved? Understanding why their hitting and helping them to understand and communicate why will likely be very beneficial for both of you.

[Lotus Flowery]

I really appreciate these responses, thank you to all. I would love to hear others chime in. I have not got a lot to say at the moment,  but I will give an update soon.

[Zoey141]

I hate using physical force, but then there were a couple of instances I had to. Once when my son bit me real bad and the other time was when he got into a fight with a neighbor's kid. It helped both times. He was so consumed by anger that he had no idea what he was doing! I'm not too proud of what I did, but I did what I thought I had to. 

[Troubador]

I'd like some more information. Does this happen mostly at bedtime? Tiredness + toddler creates all manner of behavioural outliers. On one occasion a month or so at bedtime I got hit in the face by my toddler. I told him no, but only superficially addressed the problem at the time as he was tired. In my view if the engagement of bad behaviour happens when they are tired it will escalate.

 

The next day I addressed with him why I had said no to him and why I was sad. I explained that being a 6ft tall giant daddy people wouldn't like me hitting them in the face when I got frustrated and he agreed. I explained that one day he would be big and strong. Praised him for being gentle with animals (he is!), and explained it's ok to feel frustrated, but that hitting people is not ok. I said I would always help him if he feels frustrated and angry and we would work it out and make it better together.

 

On a personal level the whole situation because I had dropped the ball and let him get too tired. Him being that tired was my fault not his. It's always worth having a brief scan of situations like these and ask is their any part of the equation that's on you. Not to point of crippling self doubt and recrimination, but just ask "is there something I have gotten wrong and can correct with a tweak here and there to forestall any problems?"

 

Happy to report I have not been hit in the face since. Once or twice in the 48 hours following I could see him thinking about it, which I just reinforced with a firm no. You might find it a struggle if the behaviour is now ingrained, but use your positive relationship with your little boy, and reinforce with consistency.

 

If you can go into more detail I may be able to offer more.

[dsayers]

My three year old has developed a habit of hitting and kicking me

First off, let me thank you for taking the time to try and provide a better life for your child. You are a pioneer in a time when this is a new idea for many.

 

I don't think this quote is accurate though. I think it would be more accurate to say, "I have created an environment for my child where they feel they need to resort to physical aggression in order to be heard." Your child came into this world a veritable blank slate. Any habits they develop they either observed or adopted for survival's sake. If you don't model physical aggression, then I would wager that they perceive you as unavailable or unattentive. This is why I really like Drew's idea of hugging them. It's a way of letting them know first and foremost that they are being listened to and acknowledged.

 

Unfortunately, this means there won't be a quick fix. You'll essentially have to recondition X amount of time of inferior conditioning. If you can reflect and identify the ways in which prior to the physical aggression, they were trying to communicate and you were not receptive, it would be a good idea to admit as much to them. Apologize for it. Let them know they are being listened to. It is good for any child to learn that adults are not perfect. And it would help to precipitate a behavioral change by initiating that environment change not just by altering his environment moving forward, but deliberately addressing it. You can let him know that people don't hit others to communicate and that you're sorry you weren't listening to him communicate before then. If you demonstrate this, it shouldn't be long before he will feel the need to hit. It's easier to cast a sentence than it is a fist.

 

I hate using physical force, but then there were a couple of instances I had to. Once when my son bit me real bad and the other time was when he got into a fight with a neighbor's kid. It helped both times. He was so consumed by anger that he had no idea what he was doing! I'm not too proud of what I did, but I did what I thought I had to. 

I am glad that by the end of your recount, your positioned shifted from had to to thought you had to. The only thing you can achieve with violence that you cannot achieve without violence is violence itself. I'm pretty certain you did not have to. But let us suppose that you did. I would argue that if he is biting you, or if exposure to the neighbor child resulted in a physical fight, YOU failed HIM. So to physically dominate him would be to punish and further traumatize him for your own failing. I think you also misspoke when you said he was consumed by anger. Anger is a healthy emotion. It's only when somebody chooses to act upon it by way of wrath/fury that a problem arises (which doesn't accrue to the anger). Where did he learn that fury/wrath is a valid way of addressing anger? Have you modeled for him the ways in which anger is healthy and ways in which you can respond to it in a constructive fashion? We experience anger as a motivator. If he doesn't see you get angry because you're trying to project perfection, or he sees anger only leading to destruction, he'll have no model for choosing to act on anger by improving himself or his situation.

 

I would hold the child's arm, and say no, making sure to get his/her undivided attention for this message.

Counter-force needs to be proportionate to be productive. An adult vs a child literally lacks the capability of physical counter-force that is proportionate. Because even if you had the gentlest touch imaginable, you'd still be executing it from a position of enormous power disparities over them. All you are teaching is might makes right and/or consequence avoidance. I also wanted to point out for those open-minded enough to consider it: Saying no is the inflicting of a conclusion. It does not demonstrate curiosity, foster a bond, or open a dialogue. What if you're wrong? You'll never find out. They won't even get to see you behave as if you COULD be wrong, and that's a problem too.

 

If they're old enough to be reasoned with, reason with them. If not, they won't understand the reason you're dominating them.

[Lotus Flowery]

Hi everyone. I have been asked to clarify the build-up to the hitting and what kind of parent I am:

 

I am attentive, empathetic and a good listener. My son gets lots of love and we have a great relationship.

 

Here is the kicker: I used to spank and now I don't. Until recently I was involved in a religious group which was pro-spanking. I tried to make myself go along with their beliefs (against my conscience) for fear of ostracism from the group, and ultimately God's wrath being on my son and me. Sounds crazy, but I really believed this. I came to a point where I could not only NOT bring myself to spank anymore, but I was so disgusted at my behaviour and their advocation of spanking that I left. I am now in therapy, being deprogrammed (it hasn't taken long, I pretty much did a full about-turn within a week with regards to spanking, parenting, God, everything) and am regaining control of my life. 

 

My son's hitting was mostly when it was time to stop an activity (I always give enough notice and even set 5 minute alarms), or as I was saying good night he would poke me in the eye out of the blue. As it happens, since posting my original question, my son and I have learned to laugh at his hitting and he has now almost completely stopped! When he does go to hit me, I catch his arm and take him into his room where we cuddle if he is genuinely upset, or we just say "whoops nearly" and start laughing. 

 

 

I know it is my fault completely. I think when he knew I was never going to spank again, he tested the waters for a few weeks to see if I would resort to it. I think he now trusts that whatever he does I won't spank - it's like he needed to know that. That's my theory anyway.

 

Believe me, if there is a repentant person on this planet, it is me. I've totally renounced my old ways: I have spoken to my son about it, apologised, let him know that I thought it was the right thing to do but now I realise how wrong it is. I have told my friends and family that I should never have spanked, and I am receiving IFS therapy to get to the root cause of why I am prone to getting sucked into cults (found out it is because I learned to renounce my own conscience at a young age and have been looking for an authority figure who I can trust). I could write a whole essay about the religious group involvement, it really was a very disturbing time.

 

Here is another complexity to throw into the mix: My son's father and I are separated. He lives round the corner and we all hang out with each other nearly everyday. However, my ex has teenage children from his previous relationship, and the three of them are very dysfunctional, and they hit each other as a joke, play fighting etc. So I am trying to deal with this situation too as my son is seeing this play hitting and getting confused. In many other ways, my ex is a lovely parent.

 

Basically, we have messed him up haven't we? I am happy to receive your honest comments on all this, as I genuinely am putting all my energy into helping our family to become more healthy and building my relationship with my son.

 

On a day to day basis, we constantly chat, play, go on outings and just stay very close to one another in general, which is great. I believe since leaving the religious group, our relationship has flourished and I have become much happier and I think my son may be just getting used to this. Stefan mentions in one of his podcasts that to spank your child you have to dissociate from your emotions. How true this is! And not only whilst spanking - I was so riddled with guilt that I was dissociating most of the time so I wouldn't have to feel the pain of the guilt. Now that I am not doing this, I have had to experience the pain. I physically want to vomit when I think of what I have done, but it has been necessary for me to replay it. I have written it all down and I couldn't believe it was me. 

 

I never thought that I would ever end up getting involved with such a group, and switching off my own perception and conscience. I have a high IQ and I am emotionally intelligent. It was a series of unfortunate events that put me into a place where I could be brainwashed - I am not accusing the group of brainwashing me, I brainwashed myself.

 

Thank you for all your inputs. Thankfully, this problem seems to be diminishing now.

[dsayers]

Believe me, if there is a repentant person on this planet, it is me. I've totally renounced my old ways: I have spoken to my son about it, apologised, let him know that I thought it was the right thing to do but now I realise how wrong it is. I have told my friends and family that I should never have spanked, and I am receiving IFS therapy to get to the root cause of why I am prone to getting sucked into cults (found out it is because I learned to renounce my own conscience at a young age and have been looking for an authority figure who I can trust).

Thank you for all of this. It is truly very impressive to me. I hope your son was present as you told your friends and family how much you were going to start protecting him even from past you. This a level of thoroughness that is very necessary, but I think some might overlook. Bravo to you!

[Lotus Flowery]

Thank you for all of this. It is truly very impressive to me. I hope your son was present as you told your friends and family how much you were going to start protecting him even from past you. This a level of thoroughness that is very necessary, but I think some might overlook. Bravo to you!

It is an often-discussed topic no matter whose company I am in, but thanks for bringing this to my attention - I certainly do need to talk about this in front of my son and my friends and family. I have and do, but I need to do it more - thank you.

[Troubador]

Right so the behaviour happens when it's time to finish an activity? To incentivise the behaviour you want instead of using spanking try a star chart. Get some star stickers and make up a chart, include categories like brushing teeth, getting ready when you ask etc whatever you like really. However make sure to include several things he already does.

 

The key is to reinforce his self perception of bieng a good boy. Too often when we tell children they are 'bad' that starts to be incorporated into their identity. So let him choose a star put it on the chart, and positively reinforce with praise. Once he fills a chart and make him aware of this he can choose a special activity: trip to the zoo etc. However make sure it involves plenty of time and interaction with you.

[neeeel]

Right so the behaviour happens when it's time to finish an activity? To incentivise the behaviour you want instead of using spanking try a star chart. Get some star stickers and make up a chart, include categories like brushing teeth, getting ready when you ask etc whatever you like really. However make sure to include several things he already does.

 

The key is to reinforce his self perception of bieng a good boy. Too often when we tell children they are 'bad' that starts to be incorporated into their identity. So let him choose a star put it on the chart, and positively reinforce with praise. Once he fills a chart and make him aware of this he can choose a special activity: trip to the zoo etc. However make sure it involves plenty of time and interaction with you.

 

perhaps its not relevant, but my reaction to star charts and such "positive" incentives is usually "ugh" or "yuk". 

You arent teaching them anything except to please you. I suppose if you are also explaining reasoning or whatever as you go, then it wouldnt be so bad. And its obviously better than spanking. But still leaves a nasty feeling for me.

[dsayers]

I agree with neeeel. Something like a star chart will mostly condition a person to seek external validation. This is the foundation of a person ripe for subjugation. Please aim for the opposite of this.

 

Pardon me that I didn't catch what Troubador was responding to during my first read. You say time to stop an activity... According to who? How do you know? Who tells you when its time to stop activities you're engaged in? If your goal is to condition your child to be self-sufficient, then I think it would be better to not subject them to this construct that they're not going to face once they're an adult. He's not there by choice, but you did choose to have him. If there's a disagreement about how he impacts your life, then it's something you could try to negotiate with him regarding. Otherwise, I would argue that it is you who needs to yield to him. Without specifics, it's hard to describe what that might look like. But for me, it would begin with halting thoughts like "time to stop." That's a conclusion and if you try to inflict it, not only are you inflicting, but you're also asserting that you are infallible. Neither one is going to be helpful to him, nor to you down the road.

[Spenc]

But for me, it would begin with halting thoughts like "time to stop." That's a conclusion and if you try to inflict it, not only are you inflicting, but you're also asserting that you are infallible. Neither one is going to be helpful to him, nor to you down the road.

This sounds like a right mindset.  I remember quite a few years ago now that STef would talk about setting expectations and making agreements with his daughter.

 

So if you want to take your kid to the park, he needs you to get him there because he doesn't know the way, can't walk or ride or drive himself, etc.  So it starts off as a negotiation:

 

MOM:  Hey, would you like to go to the park to play later?

KID: "Yes"

MOM: "Okay, I have a busy afternoon because I have laundry and grocery shopping and then making dinner. Can we go for one hour after lunch and then come back home so I can do the things I need to?"

 

So from here, you've established agreement of terms.  Let's say you get there, 50 minutes has passed and you notify him that he has 10 minutes left and he gets upset.  Once that time elapses, he is very upset and doesn't want to leave.

 

MOM:  Well, you agreed that you would play for one hour and then come home with me

KID: No, i want to stay longer

MOM: Well, when I agreed to bring you, I kept my promise and I brought you.  You wouldn't like it if I promised to bring you and then when it was time for us to leave the house I said "No, I want to stay home longer".  If you don't keep your agreements, maybe then I won't want to make any more with you, and we won't be able to come to the park anymore.

 

Now we're dealing with a break in the agreement by reminding the kid that he's not the only one with the autonomy to change his mind and renege on a deal and that it could just as easily happen to him.  that's why its important to only make deals with people who earn credibility and that's why having credibility is important, which he can only earn by keeping his end of the deals he makes.

 

Another element Stef had talked about was the importance of post-activity breakdown.  Like, you pick your kid up from his friend's house and you're in the car together riding home. You want to break down the activities and experiences that he had during his time with his friend.  Having a fun conversation where the kid can talk about the fun experiences and tell stories, or insightful conversations like if your kid notices that the friend's parents act very differently than you do, he will be curious about why that family doesn't hug each other or why the parents watch tv in another room all evening and leave the kids alone to play without attentiona nd interest of the parents. 

 

People like telling stories and reliving their good times, which is why high school reunions and Bruce Springsteen hits (Glory Days) are prominent things in this society.  Kids want to understand the world around them and will genenrate questions that they will enjoy discussing possible answers to.  So by having this period of reflection and sharing, you're not dragging the kid away from something fun in order to go home, you're drawing the kid into a fun bonding activity.  He would be more willing to leave with that incentive added on

[Stan Hunter]

Hi, let me start off by saying I have twin toddlers. 

 

Now that you know I have kids, let me say this:

 

As has been mentioned, this 3 year old doesn't have a fully developed brain. All humans born with a fully formed brain have the upper region (reason and abstract thought or "upstairs", which is not fully developed) and a lower region; the Amygdala. When your son acts like this, he's "downstairs" with the amygdala. This will happen. This is always temporary, unless he is under a tremendous amount of stress (or perceives it that way). More than anything it's important to give him some time to let that pass. When he returns to the "upstairs" region of thinking and subsequent behavior, THAT'S the time to discuss his behavior. And when you do this you want to do it in a way that he can understand. 

 

Wait until he returns to a rational mindset, then discuss the events that transpired earlier. I hope this helps.

[Lotus Flowery]

Great stuff, guys. 

[sweathog1]

My children are now adults and have children of their own,all are doing well. I spanked my kids three or 4 times under my care when they were a danger to themselves or to someone else. I've read what has been written here, and totally disagree. A slap on the bottom to regain attention or stop the hysteria of the moment is not a spanking imo. Even an adult in a hysterical life threatening moment would/rather should receive a slap across the face to regain the use of their brain.

 

Someone wrote a hug and a kiss, to regain reality, after being kicked by the child. Never tried that... sincerely doubt that would work. Some of you parents must be severely exhausted with this non-violent method and the normal parenting must suffer.

 

Sorry in advance but that is how I see it.

[neeeel]

 

 

Someone wrote a hug and a kiss, to regain reality, after being kicked by the child. Never tried that... sincerely doubt that would work. Some of you parents must be severely exhausted with this non-violent method and the normal parenting must suffer.

 

 

 

This sentence implies that you think "normal" parenting is violent

 

My children are now adults and have children of their own,all are doing well. I spanked my kids three or 4 times under my care when they were a danger to themselves or to someone else. 

 

 

So , apart from 3 or 4 times in their life, you used non violent parenting? You didnt threaten them with physical violence? 

 

Can you give an example of where you needed to spank, what you wanted to achieve, and how you achieved it?

[sweathog1]

"This sentence implies that you think "normal" parenting is violent."

 

Absolutely not.

 

 

"So , apart from 3 or 4 times in their life, you used non violent parenting? You didn't threaten them with physical violence?"

 

There was no need to threaten, a simple look, or a no was sufficient.

 

 

 

"Can you give an example of where you needed to spank, what you wanted to achieve, and how you achieved it? "

 

We have high snow banks on our roads, this town we lived in was at the 3500 foot level. My son used to love to jump off the hard pack berm of snow into the soft stuff. Trouble was it was over 6 feet deep. After telling him a few times not to, explaining that he may suffocate, be unable to climb out, freeze to death, not be found till the spring,etc. One day he just disappeared. My wife and I went nuts looking and calling, fearing the worst. Whole town was mobilized looking for him, several hours later he was found down at the recreation hall. What was he doing?, "He was hiding from everyone",he said big grin on his face.

 

I achieved what I wanted, showed the world is a dangerous place, children need to be taught what is acceptable or not, they need guidance and they must listen absolutely on some issues.

 

I firmly believe that if parents don't teach their kids, right,wrong and danger they get another chance in school if that don't work, then the RCMP get a third chance ,believe by then it is to late for any correction in most cases.

 

Know several sets of parents, where the children threaten the parents with telling these progressive teachers they have been spanked, and are afraid of losing their children. Absolute high minded idiocy in our society imho.

[neeeel]

 

 

There was no need to threaten, a simple look, or a no was sufficient.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Right, the threat was still there though, implicit in the "simple look". And if a simple no was sufficient, why did you need to hit( in other instances)?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We have high snow banks on our roads, this town we lived in was at the 3500 foot level. My son used to love to jump off the hard pack berm of snow into the soft stuff. Trouble was it was over 6 feet deep. After telling him a few times not to, explaining that he may suffocate, be unable to climb out, freeze to death, not be found till the spring,etc. One day he just disappeared. My wife and I went nuts looking and calling, fearing the worst. Whole town was mobilized looking for him, several hours later he was found down at the recreation hall. What was he doing?, "He was hiding from everyone",he said big grin on his face.

 

I achieved what I wanted, showed the world is a dangerous place, children need to be taught what is acceptable or not, they need guidance and they must listen absolutely on some issues.

 

I firmly believe that if parents don't teach their kids, right,wrong and danger they get another chance in school if that don't work, then the RCMP get a third chance ,believe by then it is to late for any correction in most cases.

 

Know several sets of parents, where the children threaten the parents with telling these progressive teachers they have been spanked, and are afraid of losing their children. Absolute high minded idiocy in our society imho.

 

 

 

 

 

Yuk. By hitting someone, you dont show that the world is a dangerous place. You show that you are dangerous.

 

I dont really care what you "firmly believe". Hitting people is not "teaching right from wrong" or "teaching them what is acceptable"

 

You disgust me.

[sweathog1]

If this poster is still around and wants to call into the show, I'd be more than happy to schedule them.

 

Parenting topics like these always take priority in my eyes.

 

I'm willing to continue here for a few posts. I've given quite a bit of information, surely would like to know how old neeel is, how many grown children s/he had and how many grandchildren there are?

"Right, the threat was still there though, implicit in the "simple look". And if a simple no was sufficient, why did you need to hit( in other instances)?"

 

I am old school, in total dismay I telephoned my children and asked if they were ever afraid of me? Answer never. To the second part I've already answered that...but it is obvious that is something you don't want to read.

 

 

 

"Yuk. By hitting someone, you dont show that the world is a dangerous place. You show that you are dangerous.

 

I dont really care what you "firmly believe". Hitting people is not "teaching right from wrong" or "teaching them what is acceptable"

 

You disgust me."

 

An entire community comes out looking by having the same concerns with the environment, the spanking was a positive re-enforcement to insure that it not ever happen again. Disgust?  Well I can imagine you being in the airbus flying to Europe behind me and your child, kicks the back of my seat  for the entire 8 hours, pleading, bribery, threats, nothing worked for them. And no there were no other seats available. Ref. the parents who were brow beaten into not spanking at an early age, don't want to say what they turned into later in life. That is disgusting the lack of courage.

 

You madame/sir are not a nice person, this is after all a discussion.

[neeeel]

 

An entire community comes out looking by having the same concerns with the environment, the spanking was a positive re-enforcement to insure that it not ever happen again. Disgust?  Well I can imagine you being in the airbus flying to Europe behind me and your child, kicks the back of my seat  for the entire 8 hours, pleading, bribery, threats, nothing worked for them. And no there were no other seats available. Ref. the parents who were brow beaten into not spanking at an early age, don't want to say what they turned into later in life. That is disgusting the lack of courage.

 

 

Yes, because peacefully brought up children are totally like that. They dont care what their parents think or say, they have no relationship at all with their parents and view them with hatred, ridicule and distrust. They have no conception of anything, and just do whatever they want, whenever they want. Of course they just sit for 8 hours kicking the back of the seat, and ignore anything and everything that is said to them, and the ONLY way to stop them is to hit them, of course. Makes perfect sense. To you, theres no reason for this behaviour, no reason for this breakdown in communication, they do it "just because". Deep down , thats what you believe about children , they are destructive, uncaring, evil troublemakers who need to be controlled and bent to someone elses will. If thats what you believe, then it makes sense that you would believe in punishment and hitting. You dont believe that children will respond to being shown respect, understanding and kindness by learning respect understanding and kindness

 

A disgusting strawman to go along with your disgusting views.

[sweathog1]

Why do I feel like I'm talking to a child?

 

Had to get out my calculator and crunch the numbers on how many generations are in a thousand years, roughly 33 generations of collective consciousness, passed down through a long line. I'll stick to what we know for sure. I've raised mine and am done, am a grandfather and it is up to the next batch of parents to do what they they think is correct.

 

In disciplining children, parents should do everything as kindly and gently as they can first. They should try to understand a child, make sure the child understands what is expected of them, use reasoning and find an adequate nonphysical consequence, like a "timeout" or taking away privileges. But if the child won't cooperate, some kids — at least some of the time — need something more forceful to back it up.

 

But it's naive to conclude that parents are causing kids to be more aggressive by using spanking. How is any other form of discipline better, going to their rooms,grounding, removing privileges, etc. better? These other forms of disciplining don't/can't cause aggression? No , then that is faulty logic. Where is the mention of stages of cognitive development in your supposed scientific tunnel vision?

[neeeel]

Why do I feel like I'm talking to a child?

 

Had to get out my calculator and crunch the numbers on how many generations are in a thousand years, roughly 33 generations of collective consciousness, passed down through a long line. I'll stick to what we know for sure. I've raised mine and am done, am a grandfather and it is up to the next batch of parents to do what they they think is correct.

 

In disciplining children, parents should do everything as kindly and gently as they can first. They should try to understand a child, make sure the child understands what is expected of them, use reasoning and find an adequate nonphysical consequence, like a "timeout" or taking away privileges. But if the child won't cooperate, some kids — at least some of the time — need something more forceful to back it up.

 

But it's naive to conclude that parents are causing kids to be more aggressive by using spanking. How is any other form of discipline better, going to their rooms,grounding, removing privileges, etc. better? These other forms of disciplining don't/can't cause aggression? No , then that is faulty logic. Where is the mention of stages of cognitive development in your supposed scientific tunnel vision?

 

 

What does the number of generations have to do with anything?

Why does it seem like you are not reading what I say, or not responding to what I say?

Who said anything about sending them to their rooms, grounding, and removing priviledges? 

Ugh, you are so dishonest.

[sweathog1]

enough of this abuse, Happy NewYear young fellow...may you have a productive, satisfying life.

[Marshall B]

Abuse? Aren't you the sad victim here Mr Sweathog. What exactly triggered you?

You mentioned you only "slapped" your kids 3-4 times so were you exhausted all the rest of the times you restrained yourself and practiced peaceful parenting? It wasn't so bad eh?

[Troubador]

Single father here *sweathog1* of a little boy about to turn 4 next month. I can report absolutely 100% no need to spank so far. It hasn't been difficult, prior to being a father I have experience of working in a school for children with special needs (developmental and mental). My experience has been there is never a time when using violence has been remotely necessary. I have a son who is remarkably well behaved (strangers have often commented on how helpful and pleasant he is in public settings).

 

There is a plethora of data supporting my position and interestingly I read this year how IQ temporarily reduces when in a state of fear/anxiety (I am happy to dig up a link if you are really interested and open to examining the issue further). One of the roles of a parent is to help and model to a child how to manage emotions and it's next to impossible to help a child manage fear/anxiety when you yourself are the source of that.

 

If you are willing to invest a lot of time to actually being with your child they will live and breathe for your approval you don't need much else to get them to behave in a way that keeps them safe. Depending on how developed their language is (which should be formidable if you spend a lot of time talking with them) the easier it all gets.

[regevdl]

I really appreciate these responses, thank you to all. I would love to hear others chime in. I have not got a lot to say at the moment,  but I will give an update soon.

I don't know if this is still relevent as I haven't been in the Community threads for a few months, but 3 year olds don't have the ability to understand certain abstractions like 'NAP'.  THey are still developing language and social constructs, etc.  Go through these questions with yourself before worrying about NAP

 

1.  Did this come about suddenly?

2.  Has anything significant changed in his life (that would be significiant to him, as a child, not to you, as an adult) ...as often adults find certain changes no problem since they are more developed to cope yet don't see how hard it is for children to adjust to certain changes. 

i.e. new people/relationships in his life or in the lives of the peole around him? new school/daycare? Moving to a new home? A new sibling? new schedule of his daily routine, etc

3.  Have any of his prior relationships been altered (with caregiver in daycare, parent, other relative, playmate, etc)

4.  has something happend to him that you may not be aware of.

5.  Has he witnessed hitting (being spanked, or witness other kids spanked or hit, even if he is spared?)

6.  Does he have enough time with his father or with you?  'enough' meaning, if you spend more time with him...quality time, consistantly for a week or two +, does this hitting subside?

 

Typically, at this age it is unspoken frustration that the child either doesn't have the language skills to communicate with you or the emotional maturity and cognition to associate his feelings with his actions/outbursts. 

 

I have two kids of my own and have been working with children for the last 5 years in private care-giving, daycare and now in a kindergarden.  I see this behavior from this end and typically it's one or a few of the things I've mentioned above that are easily remedied and preventable once you become aware.

[mikemolaro]

I'm pretty sure hitting a small child back in "self-defense" doesnt actually count as self-defense. I'd agree with the others that restraining him/preventing him from hitting you is both moral and sensical. Just make sure it's only that. Don't be too aggressive with your defense, as I child can very easily read that as an attack.

I would argue a child could read even a simple holding the hands or arms as a form of "aggression" on your part. If it's just as easy to take a few steps away or remove yourself from close proximity I would say that's the best way to handle it. I'm able to sometimes spin my 2 year olds behavior around with a hug, or with a silly face or light tickle. Of course, this doesnt always work. I generally put my hands up in defense, express my disapproval and back off.

But just continue to have the conversation. Have the conversation about hitting after it occurs, and have the conversation about hitting when you're both in great moods far away from the hitting. I think it's really helpful to role play with toys/stuffed animals, etc... One toy accidentally hits the other and he gets sad, and cries or whatever. Of course, dont get in the habit of violent role playing, but just use it as a way to deflect his aggression, and for him to see it in a different light/perspective. 

 

and yeah, as others have said, try and see if there's a pattern. if you can narrow down the hitting to specific times of day, in regards to specific activities etc....

and just stay collected. you can express disapproval clearly. You dont need to overreact, or under react by laughing...but just by expressing your disapproval. I know it's easy to want to let out all the day's frustrations...but always try to respond only to the action happening. Him hitting you is annoying, bad behavior, and i imagine sometimes a bit painful, but it's not really the end of the world either.

phases. kids go through phases. so just hang in there and do your best! It'll pass.

good luck.