Aaron727

How far you're willing to go is up to you but just don't pretend like you want to be free. If you do not act then admit you want to be enslaved. I have empathy for any difficult history you had but we all had rough childhoods and a bunch of criminals have us enslaved and can pretty much do whatever they want, so I'm sorry but the fate of the world is a little more important than your discomfort.

What you don't understand is there is a difference between confidence based on facts and hope and faith. With Stef's videos and your internet connection you have confidence based on the history of good service. You have some certainty because you have thousands of podcast and years of being connected to the internet. Will trump keep his word when he gets ultimate power? Will trumps solution reduce the number of illegals? If you say yes to those questions you are believing without proof. That is hope and faith. My arguments stands. You can be more humble by not gambling on the violent power of the state because all you have is blind faith. You have some small responsibility for negative outcomes because you are an intelligent person choosing to vote. There are no laws that force you to vote. What is so depressing is you're saying if you don't vote, all people do is sit by. This is because all you're doing right now is sitting by, doing nothing. You don't have to tell me but ask yourself: How many people have you brought arguments of peace to in your personal life? How many peaceful people are in your life and how many statists? Of the people in your life that are statists how many hours of conversations have you had with them about peace and stateless society? You don't have to sit by. You don't have to be weak. I'm pointing out its RIDICULOUS for you to believe its the best answer because you're a blind man groping for a solution. You're talking about morality and i'm talking about not being a naive gambling fool. Yes I will continue to bring rational arguments to people online and in my personal life. I will continue to argue for a reduction of state power to solve immigration and other problems. I will not lead people astray with feint hopes that the violent expansion of state power will give them a lil band-aid.

Glad you liked it. If you want check out some other videos on that guys channel. He has a bunch of interesting stuff.

Why would you allow open flood gates? I never heard an anarchists make the case that by not voting you are allowing the government to do things. Can you objectively prove this? Im not really sure what you are proposing? You came in with a false dichotomy Again the only false dichotomy is you arguing that there are only two choices. no one here is arguing with you about Anarchy, we all agree on non-state or no rulers solution. No one I have spoken to in this thread is arguing for non state solutions. You guys have been giving me a whole lot of subjective beliefs about statist solutions so heres mine: I don't "believe" that in general anarchists who are truly fighting everyday in their personal for a free world would be so quick to gamble on state power. If you were bringing arguments of peace into the world you would be confident and secure that you are making the best use of your time to free humanity. Maybe that's why you're willing to abandon reason and take the easy way out, you want donald trump to fix your problems because you're not brave enough to have uncomfortable conversations. I dont see how he is wrong if you take in consideration a simple fact that Trump is looking at it from a Statist perspective. "Ask a surgeon what the problem is, and he is going to advocate surgery." The surgeon is not necessarily wrong, his approach is different and from a different perspective. Trump is wrong on immigration when we take in consideration objective reality not his subjective perspective.

Great question auger. You are enslaved because the government uses violence to steal your money in the form of taxation. The government takes that money and creates welfare and other government programs which drives a huge amount of the immigration to the country. The government then proposes to use more money, power and violence to build a wall and prevent people from coming in. A lot of these people are only really in america because the government is giving them your stolen money.

What i'm saying is wherever you hear or see evil, act. Its not every second of every day. Seems to me like you're putting forward a lot of excuses. If you truly care about my well-being then rally to this cause.

lol come on guys, I mean bring arguments of peace to the world. Attack the people in your life that want to control you. Attack the people who advocate using violence on the innocent. Fight everyone that would have you enslaved; family, friends, teachers, coworkers, managers, supervisors, people at parties. Never be silent. Take action and educate the people in your life about real solutions. No excuses. No cowardice. There is no easy way out. What you do by going with the flow will be an effortless expression. When I say turn the tide, I mean speak out against popular opinion.

Maybe if trump was arguing to make a border like south Korea and put up land mines and machine gun posts you might actually stop people but why would you further the ends of the state by giving it that much power when there are other solutions? What trump is talking about with his wall is retarded, even a huge supporter like alex jones thinks the wall is a bad idea and has gone so far as to speculate that it is just rhetoric for strong borders. "it is the choice between Trump wanting to at least do something about illegal immigration, and Democrats wanting to open the doors wide open. " what you mean to say is you hope based on subjective beliefs trumps wants to do something. I think you are putting forth the false dichotomy. There is a third choice. Voting is an effortless expression. Turn the tide, join the real fight and slay the tyrants in your personal life. Stop being domesticated garbage, stop being weak.

Right so for as long as you engage me I'm going to just sit here and keep pointing out that you're arguing to gamble on state power based on nothing but hope and faith. Its just hard for me to believe you are ok with that. Do whatever you want man, I just want to make sure you truly know what you're doing. The first thing you said to me was asking for humility, maybe you shouldn't gamble on something you claim to have very little knowledge on. Maybe you should be humble. If you were to vote for trump and he makes problems worse, are you going to take any responsibility for that? or do you just wash your hands and everything is fine?

I think this video fits here in this thread.

* Please point out where I claimed to have proof that Donald Trump's plan will work. How could any reasonable person make such a claim? The same goes for his promises. Yes, I was just pointing this out, I didn't say you claimed to have proof. * Of course government programs historically fail on that we agree and I have never disagreed with that point if you believe I have please point out where I have said a past government program has not failed. "You say the Mexicans will just go over and under the wall but that's assuming we dont take that into account. You can build walls deep into the ground and you can have sensors that can tell if there are things that look like people moving underground." In this quote when you say "we" I understand that to mean that you support building a wall. If you support building a wall I would assume that you also think government programs don't historically fail. Why would you argue something that you believe historically fails? * Again please point out my statement where I am arguing for more state power. You are just throwing these words at me with no proof. Show me the evidence not what you think you gathered from what I've said. You're arguing in favor of trumps position, The wall itself is just another government program that will need massive amounts of money to build and maintain. There is no real wall on the border right now so if you want to do that you would need to use sate power and whenever you use state power the state grows. New government jobs and bureaucracy will be created. * I believe the statement you cant prevent corruption is completely false and here is my argument. I will assume you are an anarchist so you should be familiar with the concept of getting money out of politics. You should also be aware that by reducing government power you also prevent corruption propositional to the amount of power reduced. Now if you are making the argument that you can not completely and totally prevent corruption you may have a point but im just responding to what you actually posted. But since most people dont use the term that way I would like to think my assessment is correct. If im wrong and you meant totally and complete prevention just correct me in your response. And if that is the case I'll just go ahead and respond and say that that is a near impossible standard to have and perfection in my opinion is not at this stage what we should be aiming for. Lets do as much good as we can right now and smooth out the edges later. All you can say for certain is if trump does what he says concerning immigration there will be an expansion of state power. Will trump expand and reduce the power of the state overall, you have no clue. In terms of the topic of the thread it is certain he will expand state power based on his own stated policy. * We both agree that power corrupts but that has nothing to do with my response to you. Pointing out something like that doesnt move the conversation forward at all. Im not going to challenge something I agree with. History does prove your case so there is no point in staying on this corruption bit of your argument. I'm pointing this out because you're arguing for a policy that will increase corruption of the border. The better the wall, the more the guards can charge for crossing. Historically the more control the more corruption. * I have never said building a wall is not an expansion of state power. i dont really understand this point at all. Your're arguing for a wall then saying your not arguing for an expansion of state power and then you say you u do think a wall is an expansion of state power? seriously what? I dont get it. * I do have reason to support trumps position. I believe Trump will build a wall and it will help to prevent illegal immigration. Of course I am no expert on building walls or preventing illegal immigration. I only know so much. But what I do know is that right now what we are doing is not preventing much of anything. We all have the metaphorical gun to our head and what im saying is if I had to choose i'd choose building a wall over what we currently have. I would love to have no government at all of course but we dont have that choice in prison. I am also not saying that everyone should go out and vote/advocate for Trump. We are just talking about that validity of the arguments here. If Trump builds a wall how effective would that be. Not whether it is right or wrong to build a wall. That's a totally different conversation. There are no arguments in this section of your post. Its just you talking about your subjective beliefs. So again I will point out by supporting trump's immigration policies you are willing to gamble on state power with nothing but hope and faith. * I think this is where you believe I am advocating for state power. If someone ask me should the speed limit be 120mph or 30mph in a residential neighborhood I dont know much about speed limits and what would be optimal but given the choices I would choose 30pmh. Maybe even that isnt a good number but I am just leveraging my currently knowledge to decide what I think would be best. Picking a number has no baring on the morality of a state run speed limit system. I'm simply pointing out you're arguing for state power and then pointing out how the state has done historically and I haven't brought up morality once. the last thing where you quote me talking about reducing state power to fix immigration is not that same as what you said "I dont see it as necessarily true that if you abolish welfare and government benefits you will stop any form of immigration" never talked about stopping ANY form of immigration

I'm telling you that the government cant keep drugs out of prison. I'm saying you have no proof trumps solution will work and you have no proof that he will keep his promises. I'm pointing out that historically government programs fail. Im pointing out that its plain to any reader you are arguing for an expansion of state power. Im pointing out that you can not prevent corruption. You haven't said anything that challenges this. The history of government proves my case. Explain to me how building a wall is not an expansion of state power? Do you have any reason to support trumps position other than hope and faith? I don't like to respond to things that have nothing to do with what im talking about. "I dont see it as necessarily true that if you abolish welfare and government benefits you will stop any form of immigration" did I make this case somewhere in the thread??

did you even read the whole thread dude?

Asking for humility when arguing for state power? I wanna say, check yourself before you wreck yourself. There is a deep rooted culture in mexico of smuggling people and property across the borders. What im saying is they already have infrastructure and expert tunnel builders. They can smuggle people in trucks and cars and planes and boats. The bigger you make the wall the more it will cost and you have no real way of knowing if it will reduce the numbers of illegals in significant ways. What were are sure of is that there will be more state power and corruption. You don't think those guards are going to be running scams, letting people across? Border guards will have a nice extra income but I don't really care about them. Not going to specifically address any of the obvious straw man in the quote.

Roll the dice on state power and it comes up violence every time. What else do you need to know? If you want to support trump that fines just don't pretend like he is going to ride in on a white horse and make things better. No short-haired, yellow-bellied, son of tricky dicky Is gonna mother hubbard soft soap me With just a pocketful of hope edit: found the article I wanted https://www.transportation.gov/policy-initiatives/grow-america/road-and-bridge-data-statethe state doesn't seem to be doing well with roads and bridges.

You're still operating under the assumption that the state can be controlled and shaped, that you can use its violent power for good. All that will happen is the government will spend your money telling you they will fix the problem and the problem will just get worse because every solution people in power propose is an expansion of state power. This is what happens every time and it wont be any different because trump isn't taking donations. It is clear by his polices he is arguing for an expansion of state power.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2015/04/01/china-usa-birth-tourists-business-strong/24887837/ from the article : "At least 500 companies offered "birth tourism" services in China last year, the Shanghai newspaper National Business Dailyreported. While there are no official statistics, the number of Chinese citizens heading to the USA to give birth likely is in the tens of thousands each year. The cost of a trip, including medical expenses, runs from $20,000 to $80,000 http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2015/05/01/china-passes-mexico-as-the-top-source-of-new-u-s-immigrants/from the article: "China was the country of origin for 147,000 recent U.S. immigrants in 2013, while Mexico sent just 125,000, according to a Census Bureau study by researcher Eric Jensen" http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/sep/28/us-immigration-asians-to-surpass-hispanics-2065from the article: "the tipping point is expected to come in 2055, when Asians will become the largest immigrant group at 36%, compared with Hispanics at 34%. White immigrants to America, 80% back in 1965, will hover somewhere between 18% and 20% with black immigrants in the 8%-9% range, the study said." If you don't think a bunch of communists coming in to your country is a huge problem, maybe you should think about your position a little bit. As stated before trump does not address this and offers no real solutions for the Mexicans and the Muslims.

When the topic of immigration comes up everyone starts talking about Mexicans and Muslims but the highest numbers are Chinese, mostly woman coming over on a travel visa to have babies. Trump wants to build a wall but the Mexicans will go over and under it. There are already vast networks of tunnels along the border for drug smuggling. Trump also want to put a temporary ban on Muslims until they are vetted as if that is going to stop a terrorist from making an attack and as if the government is competent enough to vet people when it cant even keep drugs out of prison. Even if Trump's plan works he is not dealing with the biggest problem which is the Chinese. No matter how much government control you have people are going to continue to flock to the welfare state legally and illegally. The only thing that will fix immigration is a reduction of state power, abolishing welfare and government benefits to immigrants. No politician including trump will ever reduce state power because all the state can do is expand its power. Trump's plan is not even a band-aid . If Trump wanted to fix america he wouldn't be arguing for an expansion of state power.

Really? Grunch? ha!

ok well you don't have to share anything with me you don't want to. I was just curious because I have seen many instances of overt racism against minorities but have never seen any overt racism towards whites(just in my personal life). Like I said before I'm sure it happens (lots of articles and stuff in media about it) and meant no disrespect, I was just curious to hear about it from someone who has had first hand experience. If a Mexican or Asian brought up a Mexican or Asian genocide I would definitely ask them because I would assume its very important to them and they probably had a lot of stories about it.

Could whoever is deleting my posts send me a message explaining why. I would appreciate it.

You were saying its impossible to figure this stuff out so I was just providing a starting point to try and get to the truth. If we did get the stats of police by race it wouldn't be absolute proof, i'm just saying it would give us some idea. If it turns out that the vast majority are not black as some of the data suggests that would be interesting seeing as blacks commit much more violent private crime. Another good starting point would be looking into the break down of the DEA and CIA specifically. Maybe once all the data was collected it would turn out there are tons of black police and my entire argument is pointless. I'm just trying to make the case that my position is falsifiable and that its also possible to prove. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/09/30/white-people-are-more-likely-to-deal-drugs-but-black-people-are-more-likely-to-get-arrested-for-it/ Here is an article that shows blacks end up in jail or arrested more often. Also the reason why the racial break down of police is important is that it reveals different problems with violence in the races and how that violence shows itself. I think its important. Yeah I understand its annoying. People tend to get pretty annoyed when you express doubt but are uncertain of the answer or solution. Yes my criticism is that the stats don't include all crime statistics and in this thread I have compared the number of reported private crimes vs the number of confirmed crimes that police have committed. It was also pointed out that spanking needs to be included as well, I completely agreed with them and gave my thanks for bringing it up. If you think that's sleazy, fine but I don't. Its been many years but yes I have watched the bomb in the brain series and its great. I get that violence is rooted in child abuse but everyone abuses their kids so why is one race more violent than another? You could make the case that because blacks spank more they do violent things but then why aren't there more blacks in policing or the military? Wouldn't they be drawn to those jobs at much higher rates than other races? Could it be that other races abuse their kids as much but they just do it in different ways and as a result the effects show up differently? Pure speculation, I'm just thinking out loud. "So more violent offences are committed by government employees than by parents who abuse their children? I'm not sure that's true. I also am not sure police are murdering more than private citizens are. My guess is they are not." yeah thats true, it should go parents who abuse their kids, government employees, then what the state defines as crime. Police threaten to murder at the highest rates but they don't actually have to murder very often. As I have made the case before in this thread, if you arrest a nonviolent person for doing nothing immoral you have just threatened someones life. I think thats obvious. Not only do they threaten your life but they will hold you in bondage for years for doing nothing wrong. I think that most of your concerns are valid. I'm not so sure about a genocide against white people but definitely there are a bunch of white people being blamed for things they had nothing to do with. What really fucking bothers me is that you have a bunch of white police threatening the lives of peaceful people and all people do is make excuse for the god damn cops. You have all these black lives matter morons running around saying stupid shit about cops and now people are reacting to that saying oh well the police are not really that bad, well yes they are that bad but just not for the reason the left usually talks about. No one ever excuses private criminals but when it comes to police everyone is suddenly spineless and pulls out bullshit to excuse police for their immoral actions. Where are the anarchists shaming white people for being cops? No one is saying well there seems to be a problem in the white community with policing(maybe the left is saying that but not for the reasons i'm talking about here). They are more than happy to point out blacks committing more violent crime but it doesn't even matter to them that the vast majority of violent crime isn't even counted and we have no clue how it breaks down racially. No one is asking why is one race more often police than another. That bothers me. I understand that this may not be important to you but I think both our concerns are relevant, at least to me. One other question for you, I'm just curious have you ever been discriminated against for being white? I know it happens, just never met anyone who has. I lived in an all white community growing up so it really helped me being white. The few minority's that lived in my city were treated very poorly at least behind their backs, sometimes to their faces. The examples I have of white discrimination are from news articles but it would be interesting to talk to someone who has experienced it. Haha, This really made me laugh I have spent this entire thread speculating and giving my thoughts, you don't need to apologize to me.

I agree and accept everything in this quote. My post has nothing to do with the intended purpose of the truth about crime presentation. Its not impossible to figure this stuff out, If enough people wanted the numbers of police officers or government officials by race those numbers could easily be collected. Also I'm not asking about the stats of the whole world just America. I accept we don't have those numbers right now but so what? I want to express my doubts in a public forum, is that so weird? I don't care about what behavior is FDR or not FDR. Yes it's great to focus on the things in life that you personally can change but its fine to speculate or be curious or have doubts or even just discuss things that you yourself cannot change. If you would like to talk about all the actions in my life I have taken to make the world a more free place we can but that is not the subject of this thread. I will try clear it up for you, If one race does commit more crime than another I find that very interesting and want to know why. I think its possible that races that have higher intelligence on average may be better at hiding their crime by doing it legally. Maybe that isn't true and maybe blacks commit more crime in government and policing as well. The vast majority of violent offences are committed by government employees mostly by police. If I want to know the truth about crime among the races I am very uncertain because the majority of offenses are not even counted. This is your issue not mine. I sympathize with your position but its not the topic of this thread and I have no argument against it. One important thing to come out of this is several people think its unfair to compare violent private crime to the violent crime committed by police everyday, I think that is revealing and helps me understand how others view the state. Seeking truth is important because its the truth, do you need another reason?

Alright kevin, first let me start of by saying I do acknowledge hispanics are largely involved in the police force, at least as much as white people. I apologize if me not mentioning that was annoying. I didn't address it because it didn't seem relevant to me. Blacks seem to be underrepresented in policing and that is what I am focusing on. To be fair I should of said whites and hispanics are more often cops. Do we know how many cops make arrests vs the cops that just sit behind a desk or are you speculating about that? Its fine to speculate i'm just curious. Wrong is wrong and I don't excuse anyone just because something is socially supported. Even mainstream statists don't buy into the whole "I was just following orders" they hold people accountable when they think wrong has been done. To be honest with you I would rather have an altercation with a thug than a police officer. I can defend myself from a robber or murderer relatively easily but with the police I have to submit because even if I can get away or take down the cop I have the entire might of the state hounding me. If you're lucky enough to live somewhere where you can carry a gun, police are your primary danger not criminals(at least in my view). Also if you do get captured by police its possible that you will have a record for the rest of your life which is much worse than having your wallet stolen or being beaten. You don't even have to break the law, the police can arrest you whenever they choose. In my view the most dangerous violent crime is the crime that is impossible to defend against. Lets be clear arresting a nonviolent person is violent crime. It is not unfair to compare arrests of nonviolent people to violent crime because police are threatening your life for doing nothing wrong. I would bet that very few violent criminals murder just to murder, they usually have an objective and don't care about hurting people that get in the way.Just like the police. I would agree that if we want to find the truth we have to focus on where the most dangerous crime is taking place and in the highest numbers. So if millions of offenses are being committed by police that is where we need try and get the data. As I have said before in this thread there were only a million instances recorded of violent crime in 2014. On record the police commit much more than that every single year I haven't made any claims about which race is the most violent. All I have done in this thread is express my doubt that blacks commit more than other races and given the reasons why. I'm trying to say that we first need to accept that the police and government are criminals before we can know the truth about crime. I don't have any white guilt, I just hate white people as much as all the other races and In my opinion we need more data before we can make claims.

I think its important to focus on police because they are directly committing violent crime and in much higher numbers than private criminals. its really hard to know who is to blame in a wide array of government jobs but with police its clear cut. Police directly use violence against peaceful people. Also its not my definition of a crime. In general the police arrest people for doing nonviolent things. If you're a cop, black or white you're an evil person doing evil things just like a criminal. Do u think its unfair to paint them all with the same brush? We don't need lists of what cops did what all we need to know is that they are police, that is enough to condemn them. I would assume that white and black officers arrest non violent criminals at the same rate so if there are more white cops they are doing more evil things. Do you think that is a stupid assumption? I wonder if in general criminals with higher iq go into policing and politics but maybe if you have a lower iq you are committing crimes at the street level. This could be one reason they don't transfer into other categories of criminal. That being said there are a decent amount of black politicians. I'm not really sure. I agree that spanking should be counted as violent crime and I do understand that blacks are hitting their kids a lot. Thank you for bringing this up. Why don't you care? If one race does commit more crime than another doesn't it puzzle you? I agree that the whole white enslavement class bullshit has gone too far. Its just weird to me that anarchists talking to other anarchists don't think we need to take into account the most dangerous powerful criminals in the world. I can defend myself against a street thug but i cant defend against the police or the state. I wonder do you give police the excuse of ignorance or do you hold them responsible for their actions?