Kevin Beal

It would make unproductive threads a fraction of the size, taking less time and be much much more honest. I love bluntness. I love when people tell me that they think I'm full of it, or that I'm a jerk. Parsing through language and rhetoric in order to glean what people are actually saying without saying is exhausting. And when people deny it afterward, it's so annoying. I hate it.

Which is consistent with the whole giving up thing. That was sort of the whole point of what I was writing.

You know, it means something when ladies want to fake being gamers. Why would you fake your way into something unless you stood to benefit from doing so? In the gaming world, people are absolutely fucking desperate to include women. Guys love girl gamers, maybe even beyond reason. Of all the male dominated places to cry sexism, this is, to my mind, the most insane. (Second only to being a female developer).

Calling taxation theft clarifies in that it brings to light the moral nature of what is going on. Calling circumcision "genital mutilation" is similarly clarifying. The proper naming is important for particular reasons, not simply because it is more accurate. Bubbly wine that doesn't come from the province of Champagne cannot accurately be called "champagne". If you call it "champagne" and not bubbly wine, then you are simply wrong. But who the hell cares? Wine snobs mostly. If you call it bubbly wine, you are more likely to confuse people than help them, that being the opposite result of the previous examples. What are we talking about in this sub forum? Well, the kinds of stuff you think about when you hear "men's rights", it doesn't have to be confined to that, but I think it's pretty obvious that's what we're talking about. That's what was requested. Having the standard that we should be precise with our language is all good and great, obviously. Who can argue with that? But I think, there are better uses of the mods' time, personally. Make sense?

A lot of atheists are communists, communist states tend to restrict competing religions, people have a general conception of what atheists are like, and one stereotype is the communist atheist, hence the joke.

Framing it as lashing out, if it's not lashing out, is misrepresenting me, while accusing me of misrepresenting you. People can read it and see if I've really misrepresented you. I do find it irritating and that comes through in my writing. Expressing irritation is not lashing out, obviously. The determining factor seems to be whether or not misrepresentation was occurring. I'll let people come to that conclusion themselves. I gave up in that other thread for the same reason I'm giving up now. I keep thinking that I've answered your questions, and then you just say that I haven't or you aren't satisfied with the elaboration. I've repeatedly started thinking about how I could explain it better, and then when I reread what I wrote, it answers your question already, to my mind. That's why I was insistent that you tell me as specifically as possible what part you didn't understand. I just don't know how to help you understand, really. Seriously, I feel helpless to help you. So, now I don't want to. I don't know how you go about demonstrating beyond reasonable doubt that someone is being obtuse, but if it were possible, I would really want to run that test, because I really do feel very confused repeatedly going back and forth between wanting to clarify and being certain that I have already answered your question. Like, if you're aren't being obtuse, then I'm just crazy, seeing a distorted version of reality and thinking it's real. And whenever I've gone about trying to see whether or not I was crazy in the past, getting feedback from trusted 3rd parties, walking through each logical step, etc, I've almost always confirmed my original position was true, enough. But still, I keep checking... How do you remain so confident that I've not answered your question? Really. It baffles me. I'm very insistent, obviously, and a pretty decent thinker and writer, but you are unphased. You do not budge from "you've not answered my question". Your writing seems (at least to me) to be very stoic, unemotional and calculated, which if sincere, only further confuses me. I feel a range of emotions writing this, from irritation to confusion to helplessness. And concern that little things I say might be turned into something to use to frame me as some kind of bad guy. It's difficult for me to interact with you. Getting questions from you recently has made me want to put my guard up, like I'm walking into a trap or something. And please, please, I'm begging you, please stop telling me things about how you would give me the benefit of the doubt, or you used to think more highly of me in the past, or that you think I'm very smart and this sort of stuff. I can't handle it. Maybe it's just my own hang up, I'm perfectly willing to go there, I'm just asking as a favor. I've had more than my fair share of people trying to tear me down and softening the blows with flattery. It makes me want to punch a hole in the wall. My interactions with you are always very very abstract, and imo, it's too easy to either make honest mistakes or to manipulate through language. I thought I would try and talk like an emotional being, which is what I am. Change it up, and see what happens.

There was a more casual christmas eve call in show last year for people to join the chat and participate in who weren't celebrating with FOO. It was very pleasant and funny, and I hope they do it again this year. I'm sorry this was a choice you were even had to consider. I'm glad you have your girlfriend to spend the holidays with Thanks for posting!

My brain was in knots trying to decipher the meaning I was so going to argue against it too, not even knowing what I was arguing against. Almost like my brain was alerting me to the fact that it was slowly shutting down and setting off the "tell him he's wrong" defenses. It hurts my brain, therefore it's wrong.

My impression was that most of the people who live and participate in the free state project are political activist type, getting involved in the system, doing protests, etc. I've met anarchists, and I've stopped caring if people are anarchists. One anarchist I knew was absolutely convinced that most people need to die, telling me so with a look of contempt. I hear Porcfest is really fun, so maybe it's not all bad.

Well, either the fact that it's not an argument is important or it's not. If it is important, then his comment was not pedantic. My opinion is that it is important whether or not it's an argument. But in saying so, he's saying that if it is an argument and it is well reasoned, then he's under greater pressure to accept the conclusion. You can ask him the standard by which he'd accept the conclusion and you can argue that, or it doesn't really make sense to engage him further because he's telling you that an argument would convince him. And I think you've misunderstood RTR judging by your comment. If the reasoning is something like: P1: RTR is a generally accepted standard for communicating among people who frequent the boards P2: RTR is reporting the facts of your experience (thoughts and feelings) P3: I, Jamiroquai, have shared my conclusion consistently with RTR, using "I feel" statements C: It should stand to reason that my communication, consistent with RTR, ought be accepted who similarly accept this standard ...then I would take issue with P3, since your actual statement "I feel like some people are bullying [the OP and video maker]" is not actually a feeling, it's a conclusion. Feelings are like: annoyance, apprehensive, cold, etc. (I can't find the relevant passage, but this distinctions is regarded as very important). In the RTR model, it's not even justified to make conclusions based on your feelings. From RTR (pg 277) Further, one could argue that it's manipulative to phrase conclusions as if they were feelings. I'm not saying that's what you're doing, but you can't argue with feelings, but if you're presenting a conclusion that you have in the context of it being true, something other's should react to, then that is something you kinda have to argue or else it's just a conversation stopper. Using "I feel" in that context means you can always just retreat into "but, I just said that's how I feel". If however, you said "I have this thought, and I can't tell you whether or not it's actually true, but the thought is that the OP is being bullied", then you could appeal to RTR, and not have to back up the claim with argument or evidence. Am I making sense? I think these distinctions are important.

I don't think it's one or the other. You can want to and not want to simultaneously. That's why you feel conflicted. The reason I find the feelings of helplessness suspicious is because they're leading to you to self erase, distract yourself, and avoid taking responsibility. That, to me, sounds like adapting to a childhood where there is no winning (something like 'learned helplessness'). There is no guarantee, obviously that you will be successful and where you'd ideally like to be, but it's just a simple fact that you do have more control over your life as compared to when you were a child. What does the child you once were need to feel safe to grow? There's a quote I want to share with you, from the show Doctor Who, spoken to a younger version of the protagonist, literally going back in time and talking to him. Fear can make you stronger, as well as paralyze you. Did you stop going to therapy? if so, why?

I'm glad to hear that you are crying. That sounds like a very strange thing to say, but I actually think that if you have a hell of a time connecting emotionally and empathizing with yourself, crying is an excellent place to be. And I'm sorry about what you went through as a child Thank you for sharing I don't actually know the answer, to be perfectly honest, but I was struck by some phrasing that you used. You said that you feel like you've been avoiding taking responsibility, and then said: but you feel in the dark in terms of how to live a real life. But isn't that another excuse? If you don't know how to land a helicopter on a building, we could hardly blame you for not trying. And what if you have the cause and effect reversed? What if it's precisely because you avoid taking responsibility that you don't know how to really live? Does not knowing how to really live drive you to figure it out, or does it keep you in your chair smoking and distracting yourself? If it's the second, then that makes me highly suspicious. When I want to do something and I don't know how, I google it. I wanted to learn how to be a good web developer and I googled it. I wanted to learn to be a good guitarist and I googled it. And not to toot my own horn, but I'm pretty great at both those things (and minesweeper!). The point being that If you really want to do something, you figure it out. If you don't work to figure it out, then you just don't want to do it. And like you mentioned, writing this thread and asking questions and sharing your history and perspective is demonstrating that you want to do it. What will you do next? When I had no idea how I wanted to live my life, I got in therapy as quickly as I could. I didn't really have a job then, but I had enough to pay for a session here and there. I took jobs like lawn mowing that I wouldn't if I wasn't trying to pay for the next session. I opted not to buy alcohol so I could afford the next session. I started actually looking for full time work so I could continue therapy. I just made it work, whatever way I could. I got a good therapist and after a whole shit ton of work, my life got a whole lot better. Prove to yourself through your actions what you can or can't do. And just going into therapy won't be enough. You have to be as self directed as you can conceivably muster and learn to become your own therapist. A lot of people go into therapy and they think it gives them extra self knowledge points or something. Therapy is not a passive thing, obviously. It's actually really hard and you never stop working at it. So why do it? Because fuck not doing it! Fuck not having control over your own life! Fuck not having the amazing power of your emotional apparatus and unconscious mind, developed over a billion years, available to you in achieving your goals! Fuck not having goals! Fuck passivity!

Hi TheSchwartz, I don't suspect there is any one answer to this problem and I'm not as successful in this area as I would like, but I do have some thoughts. There are a lot of personal development skills that need to be learned and applied in order to have success in life. Awareness enough to defer gratification, money and time management skills, goal setting skills, and more. It takes a commitment to self growth and looking honestly at where you are now without pretense. For me it involved 4 years of twice weekly psychoanalysis, reading books and taking notes on material from people who've achieved what I want to achieve, lengthy conversations with people who are on the same journey, incorporating philosophy into my identity. A very valuable tool that I've learned for determining what my actual values are is by only looking at what I actually do, and not what I think about doing. If I don't actually start working on something then I just don't have interest enough to do it. So, I challenge myself to prove that I actually want to do something by actually taking steps to accomplish it. Another thing that I think is useful is to takes steps toward your goals and take note of what it actually feels like to gain self esteem and self efficacy. That warm all over feeling that actually sort of feels like being buzzed on alcohol or high on marijuana (but not artificially induced). Developing a sense of self, a sense of what it is that you truly think and feel and not get lost in abstraction. Knowing the difference between disappointment, loss, grief, sorrow, depression, hurt and feeling contemplative, between joy, giddiness, pleasure, happiness and contentedness, between anger, rage, irritation, exasperation and annoyance, between admiration, love, respect and fondness. Having the vocabulary to articulate your inner experience. I often ask myself "what exactly is this feeling?" And in doing so am able to connect with larger trends in my life, like how often I really feel disappointed, how painful disappointment is to me, what kinds of things have made me disappointed in the past, etc. I think it is pretty true that you can't really love anyone more than you love yourself, and if you have a pulse and are not a sociopath, that is obviously going to be something that you want. Take care of your heart!

Hi Geneloper! Welcome to the boards Part of your post was chopped off, the fourth paragraph down ending in "And I realized how much adults". I really want to hear that thought completed. And I would really love to be able to help you by answering your questions, but I'm afraid they are slightly too abstract for me. Is there something more specific about becoming free that you want to accomplish? One thing that I think helps is that if you want to accomplish something, it makes it much easier to phrase it in actual todo items that can be finished unequivocally. How do you really know when you've finished becoming free? Are you out protesting in China? I'd be interested to hear more if you wanted to share Take care

For reasons I can go into, I was heavily into the wildest conspiracy theories and was already used to thinking about governments filled with evil people, if not pandimensional lizard people. And then I saw Ron Paul in 2008 (who I perceived as opposing the evil politicians) say something like "the government that governs least, governs best" which made me think "well, what about a government which governs not at all?" And so I sought out material to confirm this growing bias. Then I learned how to think and developed many important conclusions from first principles and could finally confidently say I'm an anarchist.

To their credit, I was dropping F-bombs like a mother

I guess the mods didn't approve of my response...?

So, I feel a bit anxious responding. You've mentioned repeatedly that you are probably seeking attention and I don't know what the right thing to do in that situation is. You mentioned that you are cutting yourself, and it comes off sorta casual, like that wouldn't be a very alarming thing to hear, but to me, it is, even if there aren't scars. God, I'm sorry about the lack of connection, and the helplessness. But I think it's important to note just how that works when you try and suppress things, and that it will just end up coming up in some other way later, perhaps as self abuse. Also, I don't hear much self analysis. Thank you for sharing, but I don't hear you question why certain things are the way they are. You came up with a possible explanation for a few things and just left it at that. But why did you want to be broken? Why did you have overwhelming emotions? Why are you cutting? Why do you idealize broken people? To answer your questions, I am still on that break 4 years in. I've talked to them about the neglect many times, yes. My father was already kicked out of the family for things he'd done in the past, and my mother was criminally neglectful, like not taking me to the hospital when I broke bones kind of neglectful. I got told "I love you" every once in a while, but I hated hearing it because I didn't believe it, because they never expressed an interest in my inner life. They were somewhat affectionate, on occasion, and supportive financially as I was getting old enough to move out, but not supportive emotionally, no. My father was literally absent for years at a time, and my mother was emotionally absent the entire time. I'm actually writing a book about it. Maybe I'll publish it at some point.

This video, therefore existential nihilism

I think I see now. Now I don't think it is depression that you're talking about either. Although, I think that is a risk factor, since it would mean relief from the overwhelming amount of emotion. I'd be happy to talk more about the lack of emotional support I received as a child, but I'm not sure what else to say about it right now. Was there anything in particular you wanted to know? (Thank you for the compassion). I don't know that I would be of any help without knowing the specifics of what's been happening in your life recently. If it's what I think it is, the last time this same thing happened to me was a year and a half ago. I just felt raw all the time, like an exposed nerve and every emotion I experienced was amplified (or not dulled). This was at a time in therapy when I had reached a new level of trust with my therapist and I started talking about things which were less abstract or ancient, and started talking more about my insecurities in the present. I remember my therapist told me that my tolerance of the discomfort in these experiences would grow and it wouldn't be so overwhelming. I'm not sure exactly why this was the result, but I do know that everything started feeling more real and I was no longer comfortable in my passivity. The time before that was when I decided to take a break from my FOO. Similarly, I was feeling compelled to act and not be passive. I felt raw and everything seemed real all of a sudden (and I got into therapy as quickly as I could). Stef has mentioned before that he's noticed that a lot of people start living a philosophical life and then they reach some kind of success, like they get the job they always wanted, or finally have a good love relationship, or something like that, and say to themselves "this is a satiating point where I can stop trying to grow" only to find the satisfaction fleeting. Like a person who's dieting thinking that because they've reached their weight goal that they can go back to their old eating habits, living a principled life is a complete change in lifestyle, is lifelong. If the feelings are telling you to take some kind of principled action, then that sounds like really great stuff to bring up in therapy Just my thoughts. I hope they are helpful.

Hiya Alice. I'm really sorry. I think I know how that feels I wonder if it really is emotional dumping if you are aware of it and taking into consideration the feelings of other people. I don't think so. I don't know the specifics, but here are some more general thoughts I have about this issue. It's something I've been thinking a lot about and have had some success in working with. Without knowing specifics, though, it could be too abstract and unhelpful, or I've misunderstood. Hopefully it's at least of some utility. Self Talk I think that word choice is important. You've used defeated language, which totally makes sense when you feel overwhelmed, but in a literal sense is actually untrue. You used words like "unable" and "impossible" and that you "don't have the wings to get there". The reason I think it's important is because that can become like a self fulfilling prophecy. You condition your own judgments about yourself in a neurolinguistic programming sense, and the reason we behave as we do is as a result of the beliefs that we hold. To some degree it is a matter of appropriate self talk, changing phrases like "I can't do this" to "I don't know yet how to do this". This is not sufficient, clearly, and if it were as simple as changing the way you talk to yourself, then that would be pretty insulting, but I think it's an important part of it (for what that's worth). If you have good people in your life to talk to and can trust, it will be more easy to see the negative ways that you talk about yourself that could be damaging. If we were friends, you and I, and you told me you were unable to change your bad habits or to be honest, I would be alarmed and feel it important to explore that. And I'm betting it would not be something you'd say casually in relationship with me. If that makes sense. Emotional Vocabulary I think another thing that is really important is to really have a strong sense of the difference between depression and sorrow. Depression in a clinical sense is actually a lack of emotional connection. Alice Miller, in the Drama of the Gifted Child talks about this a lot. Depression in her view is an emotional defense against feeling the traumatic pain of our old wounds. But we can't just turn off the hurt alone; all emotions get dulled. I've actually felt myself becoming depressed in the moment and traced it back to the moment before and reconnected with the pain, and that depressive lack of feeling was immediately alleviated. And more than that, I felt a sense of mastery taking a principle I was learning about and applied it, giving me a self esteem boost. The actual event was of reading a paragraph in Drama of the Gifted Child where she talks about the desire people have who were neglected as children of wanting to be loved and cared for the way they never were as children. I noticed that I was feeling depressed all of a sudden and remembered that she said depression is an emotional defense, so I tried to think what I could be repressing when it suddenly hit me how alone I felt as a child moving schools, and how I was so overwhelmed that I would cry in the bathroom stalls before class started, and how I desperately wanted my parents to show the slightest concern about how it might make me feel leaving all my friends Strong Sense of Self Alice Miller uses the term "sense of self" to describe a relationship that we have with our thoughts and feelings. Having a strong sense of self would be knowing how you are feeling, and if you suddenly become depressed, that will be easier to notice. If you are so used to feeling depressed, then it's like the fish who doesn't know what water is. Developing a strong sense of self is therefore also important to be able to more easily make these distinctions. Three ways that I've found helped me grow my sense of self are: I grew my emotional vocabulary and worked at accurately describing what emotional experience I was having. (e.x. depression is not sorrow is not remorse is not hurt). Getting more in my body, in the present moment. I have a habit of being a floating brain dragging my body around, cut off from feeling and my senses and thinking always in abstraction. Having connected conversation with other people who I can let my guard down around, who help me see myself by either being a mirror, or by being interested enough that I become more interested in what I think and feel. If the people you talk to are not interested in you for you, then we have to erase ourselves in order to hang around them. Therapy I would have been hopeless without therapy. Having someone to trust and give me genuine feedback about myself and want to know the real me was invaluable. If you don't know what it's like (that was me) then you don't know what's so painfully absent from your present relationships. And if you don't know what you should expect and work toward in relationships (me again) then how can you find that? Most therapists sound like they are crap, but if you find a good one, they can help you change your life dramatically. Emotional Vocabulary Resources

Hi Tweety! Welcome to the boards I really like the way you described your shift in perception, and I can relate. But I would not discourage you from continuing to rant. I thought it was a good one It's been a while since I've been a statist. And certainly a lot of people are profoundly averse to this stuff. What do you think made the difference for you?

I'm going to pretend like I know what Stef wants, based on the times I've heard him comment on this issue and make up the rest. What do you want your incentives to be aligned with? Stef wants to get philosophy out to as many people as possible and for it to be for the consumers of the material. It's a freemium model, not charity. There's an important distinction there. You pay for consuming a product. How do you best balance getting it out to as many people as possible and being as listener focused as possible? If you can make that case to him then go for it. A combination of specific donator material and consistent reminders for people to donate what they think it's worth seems to be working out somewhat well. It's not as much as tithing brings in for churches, but enough for 3 employees so far which is pretty damn impressive, I think. Obviously if it were more that would be better. I'm sure they would love more capital to invest in the show. And if you think of a solution which aligns with these incentives and you demonstrate an understanding of how it will work out positively for the show, then I'm sure they'd listen.

Thank you for the thoughtful and thorough response. I'll have to think some more on it.