In the belly of the beast

Thank you Kevin, and TheLolGuy, for your detailed accounts of your experiences with depression and anxiety. Both of your accounts of severe social isolation resonated strongly with me. I was a highly anxious boy that was put on anxiolytics for insomnia from the age of 4 onwards, and developed obsessive compulsive behaviors after the death of my grandmother at age 6. More insomnia followed, and I was eventually put on a sedating anti-depressant/anxiolytic and Ritalin for the anxiety and a poor attention span in school (careless mistakes with long division). These drugs continued until the age of 18, when I left for university (and had to learn basic social skills while coping with the effects of withdrawal from long-term use of Ritalin while simultaneously learning such non-attention intensive subjects as Java programming, Japanese, and the physical sciences). For as long as I can remember I was completely disinterested in interacting with other children and adolescents. I used to simply pace the playground at recess, sometimes watching the other children play as if observing a nature documentary (which it kind of was in the school environment). I had no friends before my undergraduate years, and no girlfriends until grad school. For the entire time in which I was growing up, I used video games, science fiction novels, and the internet as tools of isolation. I can never remember my parents or any other members of my family talking to me about my lack of friends and absent dating life in high school. Not coincidentally, I cannot remember ANY conversations of any importance that I ever had with my parents or other family members. I went on to suffer two episodes of moderate depression (complete apathy, total withdrawal, impaired thinking, along with suicidal thoughts and an imagined scenario of how I would end my life without anyone being able to save me). For a while, I was almost convinced that I had Aspergers. I discovered FDR a year and a half ago, in my late twenties. Life is getting better, although like TheLolGuy mentioned, this recovery is accompanied with significant amounts of anger at my family for their drugging and social+emotional neglect. In short, Kevin, your theory of depression being a result of the body's shutdown from long-term anxiety matches my own experiences, and makes intuitive sense.

Heavy Rain, the Last of Us, Gone Home, the first Deus Ex (2000), and to a lesser extent Deus Ex: Human Revolution. System Shock 2 also has rave reviews for its atmosphere and storyline, although the game scared me too much for me to get too far into it. Bioshock may be of interest, but I haven't really played it. Eversion is also a fun little gem, though it's a creative horror platformer and not actually deep in ideas. It's basically H.P. Lovecraft combined with Super Mario Brothers. The Binding of Isaac has a theme of child abuse, although I certainly wouldn't call the game deep. Agenda is a fun DOS game from 1988 in which you play as a newly installed Latin American dictator. The game is great at showing the futility of trying to follow principles in politics. You can pick it up as abandonware, along with DOS-BOX or Boxer (if using Mac OS X) to run DOS games. Find it here: http://www.abandonia.com/en/games/138/Hidden+Agenda.html Fallout 1 and 2 have fairly good storylines and some moral choices. I've heard many great things about the story and depth of Planetscape: Torment. The game is about an undead man's search for his memories and identity. You can find it on gog.com (Good Old Games) for $10. Psychonauts was an underrated gem, in which you travel into the minds of multiple characters. It is available on Steam. This is my personal bias, but I'd highly recommend the 2000 version of Deus Ex. You can the pick up the first Deus Ex for $5.00 on Steam and other digital retailers these days. Both Deus Ex and Planetscape: Torment are in many "top games of all time" lists, and Deus Ex has themes and a setting that libertarians and anarchists can appreciate.

Oh, why not!

I agree with cynicist that a therapist would be highly advised for dealing with your religious upbringing. In particular, you might want to look for quality therapists that specialize in dealing with people who have left fundamentalist sects or cults. As an aside, this is one of the most impressive FDR threads that I have seen in a quite a while. I'd like to thank you, in particular, for this insight. I just spent a few minutes going through the mental exercise that you recommend here, given that I have been listening to FDR for about a year and a half now, and found the results to be both enlightening and confidence-boosting (the genuine, rock-solid kind of confidence derived from making progress in putting action into words).

TimotheCook gives some excellent thoughts above. Why are you interacting with people who you find boring? What happens when you bring up topics that interest you (whether they be philosophy, economics, psychology, or something else)? Do you think of these people as intelligent and emotionally mature? If not, why or why not? What kind of conversations did you have with your family growing up? Did you find your family to be boring to interact with? Were there plentiful conversational "landmines", or could you speak relatively freely? How do you know? You may also want to listen to FDR 2578 "Bored of Boredom" (iTunes release on Jan. 5, 2014). Stef talks at some length of "lack of connection" being one possible cause of boredom.

True. I am not defending the enforcement of these laws. It is absolutely repugnant, but viewing child pornography, as opposed to the production of child porn, does not violate the NAP on its own (assuming the arrest was not the result of a setup). I initially thought that it was a case of "live by the sword, die by the sword", but perhaps Bedouin's speculations are more accurate.

True, it is possible that his political enemies had him arrested and his name dragged through the mud. Maybe I posted this partly out of a desire for this architect of internet censorship in the UK to be paid back for his enabling of evil in a karmically satisfying way. On the other hand, if I was a betting man, I'd put my money on his man-parts being out of his pants.

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20140303/20073526417/uk-porn-filter-architect-arrested-child-porn-charges.shtml

On a related note, it seems that a lot, or even most, people drawn to FDR tend to have experienced social isolation and other significant difficulties in their lives (depression, social and/or general anxiety, motivational difficulties in school and/or at work, boredom in their relationships, etc.). Do you think that it was these difficulties fitting in and other challenges in their lives that provided the necessary motivation to be significantly curious about the fundamentals in human interactions, and the societies these interactions give rise to?

My own working definition of "shallow" is "lacking intellectual and emotional depth". This definition is itself a bit shallow, in that it does not specify what exactly constitutes intellectual and emotional depth, but I think it does the job as a starting point. Would you folks say that shallowness and immaturity could be considered synonymous? I'd say that the vast majority of people are quite shallow, simply because they have never been taught to be otherwise, and indeed it is often socially and economically dangerous to bring in any significant depth to most relationships, as you have undoubtedly experienced. Although the average man is quite shallow, he has a modest incentive to develop himself in his younger years, if nothing else based on his need to win over a woman (if he is straight). Since most (straight) young women of passable looks or better have the option to sit back and let various men try to woo them over, they have less of an incentive to develop themselves.

I would be interested in being part of such a group. Could this group be made private or hidden?

Welcome!

I sympathize and am in a similar situation. I've also felt the same despair, unease, and impatience around most other people for the past several years. Are you in a position to encounter potential quality people, in terms of employment or schooling, location, and pursuit of interests? Keep working on yourself, develop your interests and intellect, and keep looking for the right people. Acknowledge, but don't give in to despair. Nothing is permanent, except for death. I wish that I could offer you more detailed advice based on experience, but I'm still working on this problem as well.

WKUK: Pledge of Allegiance

Have you tried any volunteering to help determine what you would like to do and where your talents lie? There a variety of potentially immensely useful experiences available for the taking with various groups who are always looking for volunteers.

She has absolutely no idea how very fragile her family's situation truly is. The checks will stop coming someday soon, or will become nearly worthless through inflation.

Thanks to both of you for your advice. I'll take a closer look at both VirtEx and LocalBitCoins.com.

I was looking at Coinbase today, thinking it was time to put in a modest sum towards, say, 0.1 to 0.2 BTC. Unfortunately they only allow holders of US bank accounts to register. After doing a bit of research online, VirtEx (https://cavirtex.com/home) was recommended in several forums as the best option for Canadians who don't want to go through the hassle of setting up a US bank account. Does anyone here have any information about the reliability and security of VirtEx or any other Canadian BitCoin sellers? Since multiple exchanges have either been shutdown by governments, or been hacked into, I'm a bit unsure what is the best course of action. I'm thinking about going with something like LocalBitCoins.com, but I have no idea about the reputations or track records of these various outfits, especially when it comes to handling bank account information. If anyone has had good experiences dealing with Canadian or offshore organizations, I'd love to hear from you.

It sounds like your family has the problem of socialization in hand. Those activities you mention (karate, etc.) allow for a more natural form of social mixing, since schools enforce an unnatural age segregation most of the time. You will also be much better placed in being able to minimize exposure to bullying and unsavory peers in general. It would greatly surprise me if unschooled children did not leave home as more mature and as emotionally healthier individuals, not to mention having a better idea of where their interests and talents lie. Your children are very fortunate to have this opportunity.

Fair point about not being too quick to label people as shallow. Do you think that a large minority of people are work as hard as you do to establish rapport? These everyday social situations usually feel like a one-way street to me.

This is a wonderful metaphor!

Well done! You've saved your children's minds from the meat grinder. Please do post about your family's future adventures in unschooling. I'm sure you'll have loads of great stories to tell.

Most of you know this, but for convenience here are the factors I see as contributing to the diminishment of men's value in the modern dating scene: (1) Wide availability of cheap birth control. (2) No fault divorce. (3) Welfare and other such programs. (4) Universal public education, mostly delivered by female teachers prior to high school, which both provides subsidized day care, and conditions boys within a matriarchal environment. (5) Delayed adulthood largely caused by ever escalating state-mandated educational and licensing requirements, as well as the distortion caused by the subsidy of mass higher education (hiring criteria, student debt). (6) Modern feminist ideology largely arising from the replacement of men as providers with the state as provider. Barring a catastrophic collapse of industrial civilization, (1) will remain. Certainly, factors (3) to (5) are unsustainable in the medium to longer term, although I think that men currently in their teens through to their thirties and beyond will have to continue to deal with this dysfunctional legacy. I suspect that (6) would die off in less than a generation of state rollback/collapse.

I've never read him. It sounds like he has a few interesting ideas, but I'm not sure that I could stomach all the academese and post-modernist babble that I suspect is mixed in with these good ideas. A major draw to Stefan's thoughts, as displayed in his podcasts and videos, is the minimal use of jargon and his constantly maintaining the link between philosophy and our everyday experiences of the world. It's often painful to listen to an inspiring and thought-provoking FDR podcast, only to subsequently open up an academic journal article that mixes lengthy statements of the obvious with unnecessary jargon, all written in the passive voice with not a shred of humor, metaphor, or story within the article.

LovePrevails has given excellent advice on curiosity in conversations, and in having an open attitude towards people you meet. It's still often hard to maintain this disposition consistently, so don't beat yourself up if you find it difficult to adopt this viewpoint. If nothing else, try to turn it into a benign game of "picking the shallow people's brains". Have you tried your luck with any non-Western women, especially the more traditional women open to dating outside of their own culture? I've found many Chinese and East Indian women in particular to still be open to more old school courtship, with these women also tending to have less religious craziness associated with some other parts of the world. It's potentially much easier to work with a mild-mannered Buddhist, Hindu, or atheist than a hardcore Christian or Muslim. Good to know that there are other straight men on here who sort of envy the gay guys. Of course, we know that homosexual individuals have their own struggles related to their sexual orientation. Still doesn't stop us from wondering about some of the potential advantages. Also agree with the observation on marriages. There is a reason the divorce rate is north of 50%.