Alexandru Stan

Yes I do think i get how me leaving is not a point to create effect but has risen because I have started to do some self work and realized how pointless it is to be around my parents. Lying has been a part of how I deal with my parents at times. I guess not being economically independent and also being threatened to be thrown out if I don't obey their wishes may have had to do with that. This was a recent incident where I tried to confront my father about hitting my brother for not responding to some request my father had made. I asked my father if he was in any way helping my brother and then I also escalated it, irrationally so, to saying that I would call the cops if something like this happened again. Obviously I was told if anything like that happened I would be thrown out of the house. I don't really know why I said that in the moment, I know I felt really anxious, to the point of not being able to talk right. But that opened the door for me to hint at weather the same behavior that my father used toward my brother, has helped me become a healthy individual now (I was exposed to similar abuse). I received no answer for that answer just a rebuttal to how I do not have any say in the house if I don't bring any money in. I think that was in a way my 5 min conversation to gain the insight of what my father thinks and has thought about, my brother, me and even my mother. And also now that you bring up that I could use lying as a mechanism to achieve my economic independence, seems very useful. I don't think I could have the same conversations with my father at least and risk not having a place to go, at least in the short term. And the reason why I waited to post a reply to this was mostly because I was trying to listen to Real Time Relationships. I have had some really clumsy experiences with downloading the file and not being able to listen to more then 20 min of it. I'm starting to read it instead. As from above I think because I was under the impression that I had no economic (I did not have legal right to work in the USA until about close to 2 years now) opportunity, I could not survive alone if my parents decided to throw me out. Which was a threat made not only in private, but even mentioned out at dinner parties while I was right there. As to the conversations that I have had with mostly my father when it came down to important choices like going to college, I would always back off my argument and not give any impression that I agreed with his reasoning. I think my father just assumed that I accepted the reasoning, even though I never did; but I never was verbal about it, although we had many other recurrences of the same arguments about school and eventually I was just told that I should not come back with the same preferences, of not staying in school or of swithcing majors, and usually followed by some sort of verbal threat. I think my anxiety took it's toll me, since most of the time the conversations would be either verbally abusive or controlling, as in no matter what my choices were the reasoning that my father gave would be absolute and unchanging. I have accepted that going to school was my choice, I just don't know how I would have dealt with the assumption that I would be thrown out if I did not obey. At the time when I started my schooling I had no working permit in the United States. But I have taken it upon myself to not continue my schooling because of how useless I have seen it be, and also how unable I have been to keep my grades afloat in the past semester or so. And yea I agree with your reasoning about me choosing in the end, I guess I just don't understand why my fear of my father is so great that I would obey instead of figure out a way to get out of the relationship.

My experience matches that. Beware of compulsive "helpers" and of your own need to help. If the need has the strength of compulsion, then it's a helpless part trying to compensate for what it's lacking. Yes, I could not agree more, I wrote a bit on that in Joseito's previous post. But can you please clarify this statement, "If the need has the strength of compulsion." I don't understand, who's need, and what compulsion. Well the compulsion of helping I'm guessing. But then do you mean if the need of helping has the strength of the compulsion to help?

Well put. I agree 100%. The only thing I would add is that it's important to keep in mind what the child's natural tendency is and where all his attachment mechanism is pointing: the parents. I think this is very helpful in coming to accept your particular situation and how much of an individual work this is. In my experience, the idea of influencing other people – especially children – really must be given up as a goal to be achieved. With children you have very little influence and you'll probably blow your chances of having any by just thinking about it – and the younger they are the more they get what you are really all about. Similarly, I would encourage anyone to be very skeptical of anyone trying to "save them". It very likely means that they cannot save themselves. The argument about trying to change resonates very well with me as well since I know how much anxiety it brings me when interacting with my brother and only seeing the parts of my parents I find negative, imprinted on him and in his mentality and tone and everything. When you said "It very likely means that they cannot save themselves," I also felt anxious. Actually re-reading that I understood wrong. I thought your argument was pointed at the helper instead of the person helped. I sometimes associated myself as somebody able to help others, but I have started to understand that I just need to help myself. I restrain from that in my recent interactions just because I know that the only way to be of any help is to create the example. I am skeptical and have expressed it recently in an argument with a friend, weather it is alright to try to take it as your responsibility to help someone. The conclusion I arrived at was that my friend was trying to make the argument for "helping" a friend in order to increase his own happiness, despite him not perceiving that he assumed his happiness should be derived from someone else. This is a side-topic but I would like to get feedback on that and if it is necessary and it is worthy of discussion then I will provide more details as the need arises. And also I'm very skeptical of the idea of being saved also because following my parents and going with what they have told me has not brought my happiness.

Welcome, Alex. I'm sorry to start with a response to Daisy on your introductory thread. You are doing a lot of difficult and admirable self-work. I would be careful not to own "your" anxiety. Own it in the sense that you feel it, but not in the sense that you chose it or inflicted it upon yourself. Anxiety can be such a difficult and painful emotion that carves your brain into "fight-or-flight" mode. In my experience, relaxing into myself has been like climbing a double Mt. Everest, but I started at 41 and you're starting at 21. I think the best thing you can do for your younger brother is what you're already doing. Give him an example of self-work like he's seeing nowhere else. Perhaps you could even talk to him about what you're doing, and if you decide to leave, the memory will stick with him and at some point he will come to you. He may not be able to understand or process it now, but you an be sure some part of him will understand, even if he's not able to be fully conscious of it. It's really, really difficult, but you want to give him an example of someone who wants self-knowledge, rather than of someone who avoids it. If you stay behind for him, he will know that you've sacrificed yourself for him, and a part of him will likely feel guilty and resent it. You didn't bring him into this world. Your parents did. You are not responsible for him, or for saving him. Most of all, you want your brother to be able to someday be responsible for himself. You can only hope to do that by being that—for yourself. Thanks for sharing yourself here. I understand how I do not own my own anxiety. Thank you for the very well described argument there. As for my brother I have tried just that. I try every interactions with him be as exemplary of my self-work as I can. I sometimes remind him of who is responsible for him, whenever he comes to me for any preferences my parents are not fullfilling to him. Some are not preferences either, like food or basic neccesities. Responsibility is something I have always been a bit anxious about. I constantly have responsibility shifted to me and I really don't know how to respond to it besides doing it so I can feel safe in their house. But recently I have been able to talk to some friends and one of my employers which I had preematurely left withouth notice. It seems like a trend though, because not acting on my responsibility brings anxiety as well, so I find that as a positive. Not fullfiling something that I agreed to, is a lie and I want to strive for credibility in my life. And I see the argument for why he would think I sacrifices my self for him. I just don't understand why I think of it as a stalemate for my decisions?

A very courageous thing to see you pull through and keep walking at the same pace regardless of this setback; it's quite contradictory to call it a setback. It's motivational. Really it is.Thank you for all the help and I will try my best to support the case you have made for truth and rationality. Maybe the only thing I can do now to extend my best wishes.

Oh man it's been quite a lot of anxiety. Not having anybody to really talk about topics of interpersonal relationships and parenting on the receiving end, is sometimes hard. I can see that whenever I do bring up these topics with my friends, there is usually nothing in return, me talking and them listening, and mostly I have realized that it's because their lack of experience in the subject. I guess I was not raised to well, nor have I choose friends that I could communicate experiences of my childhood and now.But I'm guessing that the root to my problem has more to do with not actually achieving my potential, and becoming an individual. And I've found so many roadblocks such as schooling and the decision my parents took to try to control my behavior, and the many counterproductive and negative actions that could be the cause of so many problems in finding true friends and achieving my actualization, or even my preparedness in necessary employment skills.In response to the disconnectedness they caused: I do believe that has been a topic that I have been wrestling with. I have thought about what you said in the manner that if I leave it only reflects the behavior that they choose against me back at them. But I guess my point is not to create the same effect that they have achieved on me but to actually rationally disconnect myself from the behavior that my parents enact when exercising their will over my choices.To the organic matter: I am really anxious when it comes to exactly dealing with that. I have some student debt that I have to pay now for an education that I can't say is something that I wanted but choose due to some bad decisions and mostly because the anxiety that my parents have caused by strongly addressing my need to go to school and imposing their will on me to achieve their own reasoning. I don't have a job right now, although I am actively looking, and I also don't have any place where I would feel secure since I have moved to the states some 10 years ago; I have no relatives for that matter, nor yet do I feel comfortable with my friends about these topics, to ask for some time at their houses, which for that reason they are yet not independent themselves, for me to ask them such a question. My doubts are as you have pointed out, aimed at my need and well being that I cannot achieve unless I begin my self-actualization.Thank you for the response, and the personal note of your sympathy. I extend the same back since I know how hard it is to deal with such topics that are not only controversial but also alienating.

A friend of mine sent me a video on YouTube about half a year ago. I can't say I did not have doubts, prior to watching the video, about very basic things like th e way I was raised and my interactions with other people and sometimes even the political system that was always talked about and reiterated by my father. I started out with the stuff not tangible to me like government and other problems that it causes. But there were so many podcast and videos on parenting and once I started going through them, and as well interpersonal relationships, I just could not stop despite the many contradictions that I would notice in my friendships and most of all my family relationship. It's been quite the emotional roller-coaster and recently just a stalemate between the idea of leaving my parents and staying to only gain the security that is not offered to me. I was listening some weeks ago to the podcast on how to leave your abusive family, and I could see that I was already trying to tell them the truth about even basic preferences that I had, and how violent my father reacted to them. I can see how my fear plays the biggest role in leaving this environment but there is just so many question of what could happen to my brother of 8 years, in the abusive environment that I would not be able to at least comfort him from. I think I made the donation after listening to that podcast, it has been past overdue and to be honest, I just need to be truthful and stop defending my father and my mother, by not participating in their behaviour. I just never imagined how problamatic the way I was raised was in my seeking out of relationships; thus why I have kept trying to improve my relationships with my friends by reasearching ways that I could improve from my side. Or at least that was my approach back a few years ago; I was in the wrong and all my anxiety came from always thinking I was in the wrong with my interactions. But the more I listened to Stef's podcasts the more I would realize how mostly every body around me had their own problems and showed huge favoratism towards beliefs that would favor them more despite the truth-value of the arguments that we were having. I guess that is how my parents sabotaged my ability to create rational and moral friendships. I'm 21 now with some skills, but with some very bad decisions such as a college degree that I have not yet finished and that I find no will or passion towards. I am looking for a job, so that I can depart from my parents. It's been quite a pain, to even do that and maybe I have not placed my whole effort into it. I don't even understand why, but I have an educated guess that there is quite a struggle between my true self and my false self, as from the argument presented by Stefan. I'm here now and open to any arguments about the truth.